Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

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Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby clintonius » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:48 am UTC

and a certain candidate had to go make his name synonymous with Average American Life. I'm as sick of hearing about him as you are. I'm reasonable enough to know that, if he winds up paying higher taxes under Obama, it's because he's in a higher income bracket and is therefore able to do so (and that's not what this thread is about, anyways). But I want the goddamn media to stop picking on this guy:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJsP ... wD93RSUA00

Seriously now. Nobody gives a shit if he isn't licensed. If he's doing work illegally, let the proper authorities handle it. According to the article, as long as he isn't doing work in the city of Toledo, he's in the clear.

Nobody gives a shit if he owes back taxes. It happens to a lot of people, and I don't understand why the media suddenly finds Average Joe important enough to write smear articles on him. The article that was published in the Seattle Times (earlier today; it's since been edited, presumably to reduce dickheadedness) was even worse, putting "I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself" right at the end as if to underscore the notion that, yes, Joe, you are making a gigantic ass of yourself. As if that's the media's business. And as if it does anything for this campaign aside from create further animosity during a period where actual issues are at their peak importance.

Protip, The Media: this is why people think you're all dicks.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Mane » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:36 am UTC

I'm pretty sick of Joe the Plumber myself; if he's making over a quarter million a year, he should pay higher taxes!

I hope this Character goes away soon, but god knows McCain won't be able to let this go.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby EmptySet » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:08 am UTC

Do Americans actually consider people who earn more than US$250,000 a year to be average, middle-class guys? People keep harping on on how poor Joe will or won't have to pay a couple of hundred dollars tax, which seems patently ridiculous to me. People who earn that much are pretty wealthy by my standards. If you consider that a middle-class family can live in reasonable comfort on $100,000, Joe could easily save up and become a millionaire within ten years, even taking taxes into account, and through the wonders of compound interest probably a multi-millionaire within 15. And this is on a single income supporting a family. If he's got no kids, or a wife with additional income...

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby ++$_ » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:16 am UTC

If I ever, in my entire life, earn $250,000 a year, I will be happy, even if I have a 50% tax rate on the last dollar. I'd still have a shitload of disposable income.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby lorenith » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:31 am UTC

Yeah, but the way "Joe" see's it, he earned all that money, and shouldn't be "punished" (paying higher taxes) because of it.

Most people that go by this reasoning also feel that people that earn less are lazy and deserve to be in whatever condition they currently are in.

Granted that's no reason at all to dig up dirt on him and smear him, I feel bad for him because he got pulled into all this junk. Let a private citizen be a private citizen please media peoples.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby ameretrifle » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:54 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:Do Americans actually consider people who earn more than US$250,000 a year to be average, middle-class guys?

I sure as hell don't. But that's probably because my Dad's never made more than $60,000 and my mom hasn't been employed in years. Dude might be perfectly "average" in some senses of the word, but if he's middle class, then where the hell are my food stamps? I know for sure we've been way better off than a lot of people, so anyone who's dumb enough to believe that $250,000 is "middle class" deserves the Darwinian consequences that await them.

Still, even if I do think he was whining about his taxes, the guy doesn't deserve this. Just because his name was Joe and he espoused a "folksy", "Republican" view, the media/campaigns build him up and tear him down? For god's sweet sake, where did the issues go? Why is the media indulging all this campaign BS instead of calling people on it? Have both American political science and media gone straight down the crapper?

...Yeah, I've been paying some attention, so those questions? Rhetorical. *sigh*

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Belial » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:07 am UTC

The press's fabled "liberal bias" or "conservative bias" (depending on whom you ask) is extremely, ridiculously secondary to its laziness and sensationalism biases.

Chasing this fucker around and exposing his life is way easier to do than actual reporting, and the masses lap it up. Easy money for lazy folk.

And yeah, $250,000/yr only looks like middle class if you're old money and have more houses than toes.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby TigerSummoner » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:53 am UTC

Mane wrote:I'm pretty sick of Joe the Plumber myself; if he's making over a quarter million a year, he should pay higher taxes!

I hope this Character goes away soon, but god knows McCain won't be able to let this go.


You, sir, disturb me. Thinking someone deserves to pay more because they have more is "class warfare" (as the Repubs like to call it) at its best. The thought that the government has complete and total unfettered access to your money and you should just be happy they let you keep what they let you is pretty Marxist. The money you earn is the money you earned, whether it be $10 or $10000000. I don't think the amount should determine whether it's rightfully yours.

The rich shouldn't pay more than the poor. The poor should pay just as much, but since they can't, they get off until they can. Redistributing income is not the purpose of the income tax.

(Disregard everything I just said if you claim to be any sort of Statist. We think on such different wavelengths that there is no possibility of us ever agreeing on anything political, simply because our worldviews are so radically different. I'm a liberal in the original sense of the word.)

Actually, disregard it anyway, because this thread is about Joe the plumber, not communism/socialism/capitalism.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Kachi » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:59 am UTC

You, sir, disturb me. Thinking someone deserves to pay more because they have more is "class warfare" (as the Repubs like to call it) at its best. The thought that the government has complete and total unfettered access to your money and you should just be happy they let you keep what they let you is pretty Marxist. The money you earn is the money you earned, whether it be $10 or $10000000. I don't think the amount should determine whether it's rightfully yours.


Unfortunately, the opportunities one has which allow one to obtain that kind of prosperity are not free. They cost money-- tax money. Since the U.S. giveth the opportunity, the U.S. taketh away. Give unto Caesar, and so forth.

If you don't like it, you're free to try your luck in some other country. There are certainly freer countries that would love for you to try!

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:31 am UTC

I could be making a mistake here, but from the two articles I've seen on this guy it says his business he wants to buy is making $250,000 a year, so he's still paying for supplies and possibly other workers salaries.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:06 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:Do Americans actually consider people who earn more than US$250,000 a year to be average, middle-class guys?


I think you all fail to realize that the US is large and standards are very different in different areas. Sure 250,000 is a crapton in Kentucky, but in the bay area or New York city, to consider yourself wealthy on 250k is a large stretch. That's why this tax crap doesn't work. Sure, taxing someone 50% making that much isn't a big deal when their expenses are a 100k house out in the middle of nowhere. But it can be a hell of a lot when your expenses are 200k a year.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby roc314 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:16 am UTC

@Falmarri: he's in Holland, Ohio, not Los Angelos or New York.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Xeio » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:43 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:
EmptySet wrote:Do Americans actually consider people who earn more than US$250,000 a year to be average, middle-class guys?
I think you all fail to realize that the US is large and standards are very different in different areas. Sure 250,000 is a crapton in Kentucky, but in the bay area or New York city, to consider yourself wealthy on 250k is a large stretch. That's why this tax crap doesn't work. Sure, taxing someone 50% making that much isn't a big deal when their expenses are a 100k house out in the middle of nowhere. But it can be a hell of a lot when your expenses are 200k a year.
Actually, I'm pretty sure 250k is a lot just about anywhere. Now, if you want a nice apartment in prime real estate (read: new york) you might have to shell out more, but that doesn't make your money worth less, it just makes new york cost more (hence why people commute, and such).

I'll give you that the limit isn't set in stone, but 250k is NOWHERE near the average middle-class marker.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:09 am UTC

Xeio wrote:I'll give you that the limit isn't set in stone, but 250k is NOWHERE near the average middle-class marker.


Agreed. My point was more to the effect that federal income tax doesn't work because it doesn't take into account lots of geographical reasons why your 250k is worth less than someone else's 250k and should possibly be taxed differently.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby EsotericWombat » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:23 am UTC

actually, that's what deductions are for.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:31 am UTC

British Broadcasting Corporation wrote:However, a bit of media digging has uncovered that Mr Wurzelbacher's first name is actually Samuel and he does not have a plumber's licence, although the company he works for does.

According to Tony Herrera, of the Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 50 in Toledo, Ohio, Mr Wurzelbacher cannot practise in Toledo without a licence - although he can work for someone with a master's licence or in outlying areas that do not require a licence.

According to local court records, Mr Wurzelbacher also owes the state of Ohio $1,182.98 in personal income tax.

Mr Wurzelbacher acknowledged he did not have a plumber's licence and admitted in one interview he was "not even close" to earning $250,000.


Bold added to last line... he's not getting 250k in salary.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby EmptySet » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:48 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:I think you all fail to realize that the US is large and standards are very different in different areas. Sure 250,000 is a crapton in Kentucky, but in the bay area or New York city, to consider yourself wealthy on 250k is a large stretch. That's why this tax crap doesn't work. Sure, taxing someone 50% making that much isn't a big deal when their expenses are a 100k house out in the middle of nowhere. But it can be a hell of a lot when your expenses are 200k a year.


If your expenses are $200K a year and you don't have seven kids or something, I think it's fair to say that you're being more extravagant with your money than most people. So real estate in expensive in the inner city. This is why many middle-class workers live in a less expensive area and commute - simply choosing to live in an expensive area could be viewed as a luxury.

Besides, income tax is based on how much you earn, not how much you spend. Although I've never been to New York I'm pretty sure that, for instance, the guy who works in the local pizza shop doesn't get paid $80 an hour simply because he lives in NY. A salary of $250,000 is thus still indicative that you're earning more than the average guy, regardless of where you live. Sure, if you choose to live in an expensive district, you may be surrounded by people who are wealthier than yourself, but I don't think you're justified in demanding tax breaks because you're the poorest millionaire on the block.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby 22/7 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:17 pm UTC

lorenith wrote:Yeah, but the way "Joe" see's it, he earned all that money, and shouldn't be "punished" (paying higher taxes) because of it.
Most people that go by this reasoning also feel that people that earn less are lazy and deserve to be in whatever condition they currently are in.
And most Liberals are socialist, red, commies. See how that's not a fair statement either? I'm very much in the "if I earned it, it's mine" camp, and I don't feel that people who earn less than me are lazy. I've done their work too, and it's very, very hard. And many of them have multiple jobs. Don't generalize, especially if you're going to be ridiculously condescending and offensive about it. If you're looking to be even remotely fair with your statement, it should read something more along the lines of "Most people that go by this reasoning would prefer a flat percentage that doesn't change with income (or not as much as the current scheme, at least) or a flat sales tax such that they're not getting screwed twice on the same dollar (even more than that, actually, but that's a discussion for a different thread)."

It's my understanding that this isn't an issue of the guy making $250/year in salary, but that the company he's looking at buying makes about that much and he's worried that he would be taxed based on that $250 even though he's really making only a small fraction of that, as he has to pay his workers, buy trucks and supplies and such, etc. Now, if I remember my econ class from like 6 years ago, he can actually take anything that he invests back into the business (like supplies, a new truck, etc.) off of his effective income, such that the place would actually have to make something like $300 or $350 for this to actually be an issue for him, but whatever. I'm also not sure if you can take things like workers' salaries as a deduction, nor whether his business would actually be taxed along the same lines as an individual (I feel like it wouldn't, but I could certainly be wrong). My tax-fu isn't particularly good.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:35 pm UTC

Image

I can't believe this guy's wiki is 3 pages long. Still as a plumber, I'm sure he has all these tips and tricks to avoid getting injured, seeing as how he's had a flagpole rammed up his ass and he's being paraded around the entire country.

This cracks me up, though... "In an October interview, Wurzelbacher said, "You know a lot of the stuff that our government is doing right now is all about taxation without representation and you know the last time that happened a couple guys got together and threw the Brits out.""

No, the last time it happened, it was Bush. The time before that it happened, it was Clin-ton. The time before that it happened, it was Bush again. The time before that...

Additionally, "On October 16, Wurzelbacher appeared on Your World with Neil Cavuto on Fox News. Cavuto asked if Wurzelbacher was persuaded by Obama's plan. Wurzelbacher said that he was not and that he was more frightened upon hearing it. Wurzelbacher suggested that Obama's plan was socialist in nature."

I love how that's the end of the statement, right there. The end of the argument. "It's socialist in nature." BAM! Iron door closes. I've just completed my Catchphrase Bingo Card, and I'll be hiding in a freezer until this stuff blows over.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby EsotericWombat » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:03 pm UTC

The main problem with this is that it's all bullshit. Not only does this guy not have the juice to buy the plumbing business, he also misreported the company's earnings, which would be taxed similarly between McCain and Obama's plans, both giving him a cut (though McCain admittedly would have a bit more for him)

Here's the other thing. Because of the way our tax system works, if you make 250K, only thirty thousand of it is taxed at the higher rate. So his being over that particular line doesn't have an enormous impact on a tax bill
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:37 pm UTC

Yeah, but it's hard to make a sensationalist media splash with THAT.

Also, Yay SoreThumbs! Palin/Plumber 2008!

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby MartianInvader » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:17 pm UTC

Belial wrote:The press's fabled "liberal bias" or "conservative bias" (depending on whom you ask) is extremely, ridiculously secondary to its laziness and sensationalism biases.


Oh man, I am so sigging that.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm UTC

roc314 wrote:@Falmarri: he's in Holland, Ohio, not Los Angelos or New York.


im surprised theres a job that pays 250K in ohio.

but no, 250K is nowhere near average. in fact is probably more than 90% of americans' income.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Lumpy » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

Rather, 99%, according to 2005 statistics.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:05 pm UTC

yeah i dont doubt that. my POV is a little skewed because i work in NYC where 250K is run-of-the-mill salary. :)
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby seladore » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:11 pm UTC

Joe the Plumber is a piece of political manoeuvring, that supports the myth that Obama will raise taxes for 'normal people'. The stats show that ~50% of Americans think that their taxes will be raised under Obama's plan, yet most of these people will actually get a tax cut.

Joe is useful because he is

1) RIch, so will be taxed more
2) A plumber, so he seems like an ordinary blue collar person.

This supports the myth, because people catagorise Joe as 'working class', yet see he'll pay more tax.

The fact is, if he is earning 250k from a business, he is Joe the Business Man.

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby clintonius » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:32 pm UTC

Just to clarify, for people who didn't catch that seg fault was being coy: $250k is still an incredible salary in New York. It doesn't go as far as it would in Ohio, but it gets you a lot further than my $40k (which is still liveable).
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby 22/7 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

seladore wrote:Joe the Plumber is a piece of political manoeuvring, that supports the myth that Obama will raise taxes for 'normal people'. The stats show that ~50% of Americans think that their taxes will be raised under Obama's plan, yet most of these people will actually get a tax cut.

Joe is useful because he is

1) RIch, so will be taxed more
2) A plumber, so he seems like an ordinary blue collar person.

This supports the myth, because people catagorise Joe as 'working class', yet see he'll pay more tax.

The fact is, if he is earning 250k from a business, he is Joe the Business Man.
No, he's not rich. That's why it works as a blue collar piece. He wants to buy the company which would earn him about $250/year.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Belial » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:45 pm UTC

At which point he would be rich, at which point he would be taxed.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby EsotericWombat » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:57 pm UTC

Except it's all a fraud, because the company isn't actually worth that much (gross income reported at between 100K and 200K, with taxable income even less and thus not subject to a tax hike) Joe isn't a licensed plumber, and the idea of him purchasing the company was just something that came up once, in a job interview six years ago.

In other words, what Joe the Voter should glean from this is that this portrait of the ordinary blue-collar working-class white guy getting his pockets turned out by Obama's tax plan is a FUCKING LIE.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby clintonius » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:29 pm UTC

And, unless/until he crosses the $250k threshold, he would be better off financially under Obama.

Funny how bullshit works, ain't it?
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Mane » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 pm UTC

TigerSummoner wrote:You, sir, disturb me.

Good. The first step to thinking is to be disturbed, perturbed, in one's views.

Thinking someone deserves to pay more because they have more is "class warfare" (as the Repubs like to call it) at its best. The thought that the government has complete and total unfettered access to your money and you should just be happy they let you keep what they let you is pretty Marxist.

The government does have complete and total unfettered access to your money; they print the money, after all, and without the government holding onto things like gold as physical representations of wealth, 'your' money would be worthless.

The money you earn is the money you earned, whether it be $10 or $10000000. I don't think the amount should determine whether it's rightfully yours.

Why not?

The rich shouldn't pay more than the poor. The poor should pay just as much, but since they can't, they get off until they can. Redistributing income is not the purpose of the income tax.

The Poor can't pay 'as much' as the rich can afford to pay; even if we weren't going to give some money back to the poor, you know, a literal giving back to the community, the rich should still pay more, because they can afford to pay more and still live very, very well off. Their standard of living, if they're making 10 million a year, isn't going to change if they had to fork over 5 million of that to the government because the vast majority of people live comfortably on much, much less.

(Disregard everything I just said if you claim to be any sort of Statist. We think on such different wavelengths that there is no possibility of us ever agreeing on anything political, simply because our worldviews are so radically different. I'm a liberal in the original sense of the word.)

Liberal in the original sense? I assume you mean in the same vein of libertarianism and John Stuart Mill's utilitarianism, so why not just say what you mean rather then trying to pretend you're a 'liberal'?

Political definitions change over time, saying that you are a 'liberal' in the original sense of the word is pretty meaningless, because in the modern definition, the only definition that matters when talking about modern politics, the 'original liberal' is a conservative position, as is stuff like laissez-faire.

Why in god's name would I be a Stalinist?
Actually, disregard it anyway, because this thread is about Joe the plumber, not communism/socialism/capitalism.

No, it's not, but it is part of this whole Joe the plumber discussion.

And, unless/until he crosses the $250k threshold, he would be better off financially under Obama.

Funny how bullshit works, ain't it?

He'd probably be pretty well off even under Obama's system even if he was earning 250k+; that's quite a bit of money, and so long as you save smartly, and not spend left and right, you should be able to live vary comfortably.

Look at it this way; if you earn 250k, and the government takes, for example, 50k, you still have 200k, and if you only use, say 90k for living expenses, thats still 110k each year, that you can use for whatever you like.

edit; I'm not really sure what the average living costs are, does anyone have solid numbers?

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Jebobek » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:10 pm UTC

My take-home idea from all of this is:
"He's trying to suggest that a plumber is the guy he's fighting for," Obama said. "How many plumbers you know that are making a quarter-million dollars a year?"
Ok kind of crude, but true. Obama's not bullshitting us here.

> $250,000 = taxes go up.
< $250,000 = taxes stay same.

Obama has to comment back to put reason into this nonsense. Joe should not have been tapped into this in the first place. What a bunch of assholes. Dammit clintonius why did you have to go ahead and find this, now I'm gonna be all pissed off for the rest of the evening >.<

Look at it this way; if you earn 250k, and the government takes, for example, 50k, you still have 200k, and if you only use, say 90k for living expenses, thats still 110k each year, that you can use for whatever you like.
Well the Republican idea of tax relief for the rich is that if you own your own personal business you might put some of that $90k back into it. If I made some kickass pizzas at my shop, I might throw down a big chunk of 90k for another brand new stone oven or two. More ovens mean more workers to be hired. They kinda ignore that poeople are making heaps extra, and look at how tax relief for the rich can lead to new business ventures and jobs. Trickle down theory?
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby clintonius » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:19 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Dammit clintonius why did you have to go ahead and find this, now I'm gonna be all pissed off for the rest of the evening >.<

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Jebobek » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 pm UTC

clintonius wrote:
Jebobek wrote:Dammit clintonius why did you have to go ahead and find this, now I'm gonna be all pissed off for the rest of the evening >.<

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby clintonius » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:27 pm UTC

Glad to amuse.

On a serious note, yes, basically what you described is trickle down theory. It sounds neat. It don't work. It fails to take into account that people are, by and large, phenomenally selfish and greedy. It also fails to take into account purchasing power parity as it relates to 1) the increasing income gap between the rich and the poor, and 2) inflation.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:45 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Well the Republican idea of tax relief for the rich is that if you own your own personal business you might put some of that $90k back into it. If I made some kickass pizzas at my shop, I might throw down a big chunk of 90k for another brand new stone oven or two. More ovens mean more workers to be hired. They kinda ignore that poeople are making heaps extra, and look at how tax relief for the rich can lead to new business ventures and jobs. Trickle down theory?


i might be wrong, but i am under the impression that you dont "put back" into business. you use the money that the business makes, and pocket the rest.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Mane » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:09 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Well the Republican idea of tax relief for the rich is that if you own your own personal business you might put some of that $90k back into it. If I made some kickass pizzas at my shop, I might throw down a big chunk of 90k for another brand new stone oven or two. More ovens mean more workers to be hired. They kinda ignore that poeople are making heaps extra, and look at how tax relief for the rich can lead to new business ventures and jobs. Trickle down theory?

See, this is what I find confusing, the earnings of the business--aren't these separate from the personal earnings the CEO (etc) is suppose to earn?

Like, if a Business makes X amount of money, and I'm the CEO, that doesn't mean I'll be earning 250k, because most of that money should stay in the business to support it, rather then, say, into my pocket, because then I'd have to put the money from my pocket into the business...but if I'm smart, shouldn't I just leave this money in the business accounts? And isn't Obama's taxes only suppose to apply to personal earnings, not business? And aren't 'Earnings' only counted after expenses?

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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:12 pm UTC

Mane wrote:See, this is what I find confusing, the earnings of the business--aren't these separate from the personal earnings the CEO (etc) is suppose to earn?


in accordance to my last post, this is the way i see it as well.

Mane wrote:but if I'm smart, shouldn't I just leave this money in the business accounts?


i think you want to give the rest out (as salary/bonuses) to ultimately balance out at 0 for what i believe to be (ironically) tax reasons. someone else please feel free to call me wrong and explain. :)

Mane wrote:And isn't Obama's taxes only suppose to apply to personal earnings, not business? And aren't 'Earnings' only counted after expenses?


thats a good question i hope someone can answer.
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Re: Poor Joe. All he wanted was poopy pipes,

Postby Belial » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:14 pm UTC

Businesses *are* taxed, but he said that small businesses would be receiving a tax break. No idea what "small" is or how much of a break.
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