EsotericWombat wrote:What I'm saying is that companies don't get to tell us how we live our lives. If I can do the job, it shouldn't matter if I like to tie one on now and again if there's no history of it affecting my performance, or in fact even if there's a video on the internet of me fucking someone dressed as a giraffe.
We should not have to answer for our private lives when we seek employment.
First of all, this guy already had the job. He was fired for lying to his already boss, not a potential boss. This is a detail that most of the recent posts seem to gloss over.
Second, no, an employer doesn't normally have any sway on your personal life, but if your conscious decisions in your personal life affect your ability to work in your professional life, then they can fire you. Not for the fact that you made your own decision in your personal life, but that, ultimately, you made decisions that affected your ability to do your job.
As an extreme case, if, say, you are a postal worker (whose job involves lots of walking) and you decided on the weekend to take a dare to cut off your foot, you probably won't get much sympathy from the union when the boss fires you.
Or as Izawwlgood put it:
So, no, don't fuck that shit, own up and decide what's more important to you, the amount of drunken photos you post online, or working what could potentially be a kick ass job/career builder.
Izawwlgood wrote:I don't think you guys get it, or have had much exposure to companies that do think this way. I can tell you that a number of my friends work for companies that would fire them outright if they posted photos of them acting inappropriately. A number of professions that I can think of absolutely demand a certain type of behavior, or at least standards, that must be obeyed when both on and off the job.
We do get it. We get it very much. And we've been saying for pages that it's bullshit, and that the law should reflect that it's bullshit, by making such hiring/firing decisions illegal.
It's a free country, Nougat, and that includes the freedom to hire/fire who I want when I want (so long as I'm not discriminating based on race/gender/etc.). You can't have it both ways.
I think the argument is about whether or not an employer should be able to use public information about a potential employee or even a current employee as grounds for termination. And I think the answer is yes.
And I very strongly believe no. So I guess we're at an impasse.
Except you need to do that to verify that people aren't lying to you. I had a guy apply for a job who claimed he had done some "Freelance writing" for the Toronto Star. So I looked online on the newspaper archives that go back to 1986. Apparently, the guy had one letter to the editor published. This told me that the guy was a liar and was inflating his resume.
In the current situation, the guy told his already-boss that he was sick, when really he was just hungover.
EsotericWombat wrote:Your employer doesn't own you. Anything that you do that doesn't effect the eight hours of your day that you spend at your job is none of their FUCKING business, and that should be encoded into law.
And who are you to say that people don't post stuff to their MyFace page that shows their behaviour during the time you are at work?
Maybe they have posted photos of sensitive information from previous employers?
Wombat wrote:These days, the greatest dangers to free expression come from corporate enterprise. Central to democracy as we practice it is the idea, as expressed by Jefferson, that the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable. That doesn't mean that only private enterprise gets to fuck with them, it means that no one does. .. it becomes a de facto violation of our basic rights.
Oh, ffs. Not the constitution-applies-to-corporations bullshit again. Listen, if corporations are going to manipulate their employees and potential employees into not expressing themselves, they're going to do it whether or not society lets them look at MySpace pages. As a side example: in France (and this is based on what someone told me, so take it with a grain of salt), when it was made illegal to ask people to put their race/gender on their job applications, employers simply started asking for a headshot.
And even if an employer is allowed to hire someone without first filtering them, do you really think an employee will last long in a corporate culture that wants to control employee's outside lives? Come on! If you go into a job interview worrying that they're going to use your personal time against your professional experience, then maybe your resume is too weak, or you need to pick somewhere else to work (Microsoft vs. Google, for example), or you are (ironically) simply fucking paranoid and untrustworthy of potential employers.
Intercept wrote:So how do you plan on getting this information?
Call aforementioned references? That were asked for and provided?
I've never done so, but I know many people who have made up references, or who have asked their friends to pretend to be references. Maybe it's fine if you worked for a big company with a phone exchange, but it's very easy to fake references. Hell, facespace is useful for picking out false references by corroborating phone numbers!
mercurythief wrote:I don't have any hard numbers, so I won't say anything about 'most jobs', but here's how I would feel if I owned a business: if an employee is in public, and can be associated with my business in any way, I want them to act professionally.
Just to be clear, I disagree with this sentiment. They can do what they want in their own time so long as it doesn't affect their time working for me and it doesn't disclose any company secrets/etc.
nougat wrote:Even then, it's still possible, therapeutic, and often NECESSARY to complain about one's job. And it can actually be done without specifying who you work for, in which case your professional interests are not compromised.
No argument here, especially about the second part. Though I'd suggest it to be a very bad idea to talk in public about your current employer. You know, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Also, if you can't approach your boss and talk to them directly (alternately, confront them) about how you feel about your work situation, then--again--you should probably consider employment elsewhere.
I'm quite happy with my current job, though, so I have no cause for complaint. I've been at companies that have totally sucked from start to finish, too (Iron Horse Security - you bunch of incompetent scumbag scammers) and, well, "no comment" (
Sorry, I have to go now, so I don't have time to re-read what I wrote. Hopefully it makes sense.