South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

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South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby qinwamascot » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:53 am UTC

South Dakota may become the first state to ban abortion except in special exceptions. The state is already quite hard to get an abortion in, as there is only one clinic willing to do so and the mother must first undergo counseling. Colorado has a different ballot initiative which has a similar effect.

You can find a video here which is against the ban. This one is a bit less biased and more informative.

I'm honestly surprised that we're in the same country. It's scary. And what's scarier is that it has a good chance of passing. This seems like it could catch on, which to me is not a happy thought.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Mzyxptlk » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:44 am UTC

I stopped being surprised by the US a long time ago. I mean, hell, you have people who think Sarah Palin would make for a good president. I realise that not every American is a fundamental lunatic Christian, but the fact that there's more than a handful present in your country surely shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Mane » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:00 am UTC

Mzyxptlk wrote:I stopped being surprised by the US a long time ago.

Me too.

I almost wish they do elect Palin, just so the rest of the world can watch them crash and burn.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby seladore » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:14 am UTC

Mane wrote:
Mzyxptlk wrote:I stopped being surprised by the US a long time ago.

Me too.

I almost wish they do elect Palin, just so the rest of the world can watch them crash and burn.


Thought, I think if they went down, they would take us with them. A crashing and burning global imperialist power isn't going to be fun for anyone.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Mane » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:19 am UTC

seladore wrote:
Mane wrote:
Mzyxptlk wrote:I stopped being surprised by the US a long time ago.

Me too.

I almost wish they do elect Palin, just so the rest of the world can watch them crash and burn.


Thought, I think if they went down, they would take us with them. A crashing and burning global imperialist power isn't going to be fun for anyone.

I don't doubt it would be, but I just find the US so frustrating sometimes.

And it's worst here in Canada because these conservative organizations keep sending up their cronies to infect us with their bullshit.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby seladore » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:35 am UTC

Yeah, me too.

It's also bad here in the UK, because of our un-voted-on 'special relationship' with the US. It is feeling more and more like the 51st state over here.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:33 pm UTC

...Some of us Americans can read your posts, y'know.

We don't like this crap any more'n you. :cry:
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Chfan » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:57 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:...Some of us Americans can read your posts, y'know.

We don't like this crap any more'n you. :cry:


I have to agree with Nougat here. Some of us Americans are tired of these stupid Christian fundamentalists pushing their views on a nation in which church was supposed to be separated from state. Luckily, the world gets more liberal every day.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby seladore » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:04 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:...Some of us Americans can read your posts, y'know.

We don't like this crap any more'n you. :cry:


Yeah, I know. But at least you guys get to vote on it... American foreign policy affects so many people (directly and indirectly) that have no say in it whatsoever.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby psyck0 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:46 pm UTC

Eugh. Why can't we declare the US a failed state already and annex it for the good of the rest of the world?

Seriously, guys, what the FUCK is wrong with your country?

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Mane » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:15 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:Eugh. Why can't we declare the US a failed state already and annex it for the good of the rest of the world?

Seriously, guys, what the FUCK is wrong with your country?

Who's going to annex it? The UK? Canada? Mexico?

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Gunfingers » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

Well bear in mind the US is the only country that has problems. That people would be upset is only natural.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:50 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:Well bear in mind the US is the only country that has problems. That people would be upset is only natural.

You mean the exact opposite of this, right?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Gunfingers » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:02 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:Well bear in mind -(the US is the only country that has problems.) That people would be upset is only natural.

No, see that doesn't make any sense.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:21 pm UTC

The US isn't the only country that has problems.
Other countries have problems in the sense they dislike abortion and other countries are flawed.

Am I misunderstanding your point?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby seladore » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:33 pm UTC


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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

Now, wouldn't that have been easier to begin with?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby seladore » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

Guide to sarcasm:

A sincere, open, and honest request for clarification enrages the sarcasm gods, causing them to rain their bounty down upon your head.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby GreaterSteven » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:34 pm UTC

Why is this even up for vote.


God damn it.


I have got to move.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby roc314 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:08 pm UTC

Wouldn't this be unconstitutional though? So unless the SCOTUS decides to uphold the ban (which would probably mean overturning Roe v. Wade), it shouldn't last long.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby RealGrouchy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:36 pm UTC

Okay, so far we've had a discussion on how stupid Americans are and a brief foray into the definition and use of sarcasm.

If there aren't going to be any on-topic posts, I'll lock the topic. Don't make me lock the topic.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:39 pm UTC

The thing is, in order for it to be overturned by the SCOTUS, there needs to be a challenge.
which means that there will be a period, however brief, where abortions are utterly illegal in SD if the initiative passes. And who knows? Maybe it'll result in someone being blocked off from their right to choose.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Gunfingers » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:43 pm UTC

And in order for it to be challenged, someone has to go ahead and get an abortion anyway. Which means that people will go ahead and get an abortion anyway.

Besides, it's South Dakota. There's, what, eight people in the whole state? What're the odds one of them is pregnant?

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:01 pm UTC

this assumes that the clinic stays open and keeps performing abortions. Which seems doubtful
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:16 pm UTC

I have a really weird question.....hypothetical situation. Let's say that abortions are made 100% illegal there, and a pregnant woman decides (for WHATEVER reason) to go home and perform one on herself since there's no clinics open anymore. Let's say there are complications so she goes to a hospital, and then admits what she did. Can she then be arrested? What would it be for? Is there legal precedent? I'm just wondering how all this would work out.... :?:
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:29 pm UTC

it really depends on what sort of statute ends up coming out of it. So the answer to that question is a resounding maybe.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Gunfingers » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:21 pm UTC

I'm, like, 60% sure that it was illegal for doctors to perform abortions, not so much for you to have them performed.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby TiPerihelion » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:57 pm UTC

The Colorado proposed amendment is to define personhood at the moment of conception. I don't think it's as serious as the abortion ban because it's too ridiculous to ever stand. Can you imagine having to get a passport for your fetus if you wanted to travel?

As far as the U.S. goes, I seriously can't stand this country, but I'm afraid that if I and all the other smart people leave (in some kind of "Atlas Shrugged" exodus) the country really will crash and burn - along with the rest of the world. Can you imagine Sarah Palin with the nuclear codes? Some of the hardcore right-wing here doesn't even "believe in" nuclear winter. It's just something you can choose to believe in or not. Like Santa Claus. It's fucking scary.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Liet Kynes » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:06 pm UTC

I believe abortion should be a choice up to the women who are having the baby. technically the baby isn't sentient until several weeks in.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:32 pm UTC

Liet Kynes wrote:I believe abortion should be a choice up to the women who are having the baby. technically the baby isn't sentient until several weeks in.


I think most of us would agree with you to varying degrees. You might want to check the Serious Business forum for discussion about abortion itself; this thread is more for discussion of the fact that it's now apparently up for a vote and could catalyze events that force the Supreme Court to overturn, uphold, or reinterpret Roe v. Wade.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby roc314 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:18 pm UTC

So does anyone happen to know if this would prevent abortions in SD, or would it prevent residents of SD getting an abortion?

In other words, could someone from SD go to ND to get an abortion? Could someone from New York who happened to be in SD get an abortion?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby clintonius » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

I can't imagine it would be able to effectively prevent someone from leaving the state to get an abortion elsewhere. If you happen to be in SD temporarily like your hypothetical New Yorker, you'd have to wait until you went back home/elsewhere, as far as I can tell.
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Re: Why wasn't I allowed to board?

Postby PatchMonster » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:39 pm UTC

TiPerihelion wrote:The Colorado proposed amendment is to define personhood at the moment of conception. I don't think it's as serious as the abortion ban because it's too ridiculous to ever stand. Can you imagine having to get a passport for your fetus if you wanted to travel?

As far as the U.S. goes, I seriously can't stand this country, but I'm afraid that if I and all the other smart people leave (in some kind of "Atlas Shrugged" exodus) the country really will crash and burn - along with the rest of the world. Can you imagine Sarah Palin with the nuclear codes? Some of the hardcore right-wing here doesn't even "believe in" nuclear winter. It's just something you can choose to believe in or not. Like Santa Claus. It's fucking scary.


Apologies, mam, you could not board since your unborn son was without a passport. Everyone knows human life begins at conception, what were you raised in a(n) barn intelligent household!?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Alias » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:01 am UTC

im a dual citezen (us and uk) and this kind of thing is going to make me move to the states for a period, simply so i can register to vote.

if south dakota were to take this move would other states follow do we think?
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby clintonius » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:12 am UTC

I doubt it -- at least, not all of them. I wouldn't be surprised to see states generally considered more conservative to adopt it, but that's assuming it passes constitutional muster -- this is the sort of thing that will definitely go all the way to the Supreme Court.
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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:14 am UTC

No it won't. It'll get shot down long before then.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby clintonius » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:16 am UTC

Ah yes. I don't doubt that. I should've been clearer -- it's not the sort of thing that will go unchallenged.
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Re: Why wasn't I allowed to board?

Postby 22/7 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:56 pm UTC

PatchMonster wrote:@ US haters: Fundamental Christianity getting involved in politics is the issue, not the whole US structure; remember we were one of the first to forbid church from state. Stop the bashing :cry: .
Since we're making the distinction. But yes, those of you who wish to turn this thread into how you fear that if you leave the US right now it'll fall to shit from all the scary Nazi-conservative-Christians, remove your head from your ass and watch the entire country go blue this evening.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby Sockmonkey » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:37 pm UTC

I'm still not sure when personhood begins. That's always been my stumbling block on the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pro-choice but it's all so grey.

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Re: South Dakota to vote on abortion ban

Postby sophyturtle » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:53 pm UTC

My understanding is as long as Roe is in effect, this will not actually effect the legality of abortion. Am I incorrect? I really hope not...

Edit: I am clearly against this sort of thing. Not only is it founded on religion not science, but it can cause unneeded problems for women who are already in stressful situations. If you were raped, but are not prepared to press charges, you should not be forced to carry to term or flee the state. I think these leave women horrible options that will not only hurt women but society as a whole.
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