Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

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Sprocket
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Sprocket » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:42 pm UTC

HighCharity wrote:
EsotericWombat wrote:That's bullshit. A kid isn't an adult. Even if he sells military secrets to the Chinese.

Trying kids as adults is nothing more than TOUGH ON CRIMETM moral wankery

I don't give a flying fuck if he's a kid or an adult. The little shit shot two people and admitted to it. 8-year olds are old enough to know not to shoot people.

I don't see what "admiting to it" or not has to do with your argument. You'd be more likely to try him as a child if he lied or didn't know what he'd done? I think the fact that he knew what he was doing makes it that much more clear that he needs psychiatric help.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby ameretrifle » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:10 am UTC

PictureSarah wrote:As an aside, just about any child psychologist will tell you that children are highly suggestible, and just because he admitted to it doesn't mean he actually did it. Kids want to tell you what you want to hear. I think there really isn't anything concrete yet on what actually took place.

This.

Apparently there wasn't a parent or representative or ANYONE in there with the kid. He started off saying he'd only found them; then, after they interrogated him a while, he said he'd killed them. I don't know whether he did kill them or not, but that's sure as hell not conclusive. And we still don't have any idea why. For all we know, the dead men were preparing a blood sacrifice to summon Cthulu. We don't know ANYTHING yet.

If you really don't think kids will tell you anything if you ask them to long enough, try reading this. Or, if you can stomach a long academic paper, this. These all involve preschoolers, but the kid's not that much older than that. And even adults have been known to confess to crimes they didn't commit.

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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Philwelch » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:02 am UTC

If this kid really did commit murder, the question is whether he can ever be rehabilitated to any sort of normalcy. It's not a matter of justice--it's a matter of whether it's safe to allow this kid to participate in society.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:46 am UTC

Philwelch wrote:If this kid really did commit murder, the question is whether he can ever be rehabilitated to any sort of normalcy. It's not a matter of justice--it's a matter of whether it's safe to allow this kid to participate in society.


And that's a question that the juvenile justice system needs to determine the answer for.

Otherwise, and this is key: WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Philwelch » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:58 am UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
Philwelch wrote:If this kid really did commit murder, the question is whether he can ever be rehabilitated to any sort of normalcy. It's not a matter of justice--it's a matter of whether it's safe to allow this kid to participate in society.


And that's a question that the juvenile justice system needs to determine the answer for.

Otherwise, and this is key: WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM.


The juvenile system can't put someone away for very long. And sometimes--just sometimes--people are too dangerous to be let out of prison after they turn 18.

Look, there's a reason 8 year old murderers are poorly served by our justice system. It's because we don't have hardly any 8 year old murderers. Now that we have one, I think it's only fair that the judge and jury have as much latitude as possible to deal with the problem. A trial in adult court will give that flexibility.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:45 am UTC

Philwelch wrote:The juvenile system can't put someone away for very long. And sometimes--just sometimes--people are too dangerous to be let out of prison after they turn 18.


The solution is then to fix the juvenile system, not to ignore it when we feel like it.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby Philwelch » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:13 am UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
Philwelch wrote:The juvenile system can't put someone away for very long. And sometimes--just sometimes--people are too dangerous to be let out of prison after they turn 18.


The solution is then to fix the juvenile system, not to ignore it when we feel like it.


Sure. You should lobby the legislature to get right on that.

But in the meantime, we have a kid in custody right now who just might be guilty of murder. We can't exactly sit around and hold him in custody until we figure out and then pass a better law. So we look at the system as it lies before us and figure out the best way to use it.
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Re: Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

Postby EsotericWombat » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:40 am UTC

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that it's proper to incarcerate this kid for more than ten years.

Beyond that, it's a good thing that our system of justice was created to give benefit of the doubt to the accused then, isn't it? You know, "I'd rather see a thousand guilty men go free than see one innocent man sentenced to death," and all that.

I do not recognize this as a part of that legal system. It's a perversion of it. And if it's eliminated, and some are given lax treatment before state legislatures can amend the Juvenile codes to compensate, well maybe next time we'll learn not to be so fucking lazy about one of the most important pillars of our democratic society. (see also: Guantanamo Bay)
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