Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

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Eminence
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Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby Eminence » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:07 pm UTC

No links until 5 posts please.

there is a surprise in there, too :)

Clarified title - RG>

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night

Postby MurdocRocks » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:55 am UTC

What the hell?







-drnuk post

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Malice
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night

Postby Malice » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:05 am UTC

Here's the link that was there before.
Image

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BoomFrog
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:07 pm UTC

And science destroys the magic of another mystery! Go science! Not an actual criticism of science.
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night

Postby GreaterSteven » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:17 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:And science destroys the magic of another mystery! Go science! Not an actual criticism of science.



So a sarcastic impersonation of a person being sarcastic about the accomplishments of science?

Interesting. And well played.


Anyway, for the record, I have a friend who's somewhat of a musical prodigy. This friend figured this out years ago.

++$_
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby ++$_ » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:03 pm UTC

I'd never heard the chord before, but it was pretty easy to figure out what notes were being played. (I have absolute pitch.)

I couldn't have told you what instruments were used, though, because I have no familiarity with electric guitars. To be honest, I'm not convinced that Professor Science would have known what instruments were used either, except that he had testimony from the Beatles and George Martin.

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby GreaterSteven » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:13 pm UTC

++$_ wrote:I'd never heard the chord before, but it was pretty easy to figure out what notes were being played. (I have absolute pitch.)

I couldn't have told you what instruments were used, though, because I have no familiarity with electric guitars. To be honest, I'm not convinced that Professor Science would have known what instruments were used either, except that he had testimony from the Beatles and George Martin.


My friend would probably know from prior knowledge of what The Beatles use/d.

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby Vaniver » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:10 pm UTC

Wait, the magic trick they did to solve this was a Fourier Transform? All that means is nobody else really tried before (because that's the way you start any serious sound analysis).
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby Solt » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:42 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:Wait, the magic trick they did to solve this was a Fourier Transform? All that means is nobody else really tried before (because that's the way you start any serious sound analysis).


Yea, isn't it cute to watch lay people discover tools that technical people use on a daily basis?
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby Clumpy » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:07 pm UTC

Like the NY Times "discovering" LOLcats. If the chord was really that much of a mystery I think they'd have gotten it by now. Still, now that I know the notes and instruments I can work it into a song without sampling it.

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:22 pm UTC

++$_ wrote:I'd never heard the chord before, but it was pretty easy to figure out what notes were being played. (I have absolute pitch.)


whats it like to have that? ive always wondered. do letters just pop up in your brain when notes are being played?
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby mosc » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:55 pm UTC

I don't believe in absolute pitch being a yes/no thing. It's shades of grey. If I play a note on the piano, you can tell me if it's "high" or "low" or "in the middle" pretty easy. Almost anyone can do that. A skilled musician can pick out octaves much easier, especially on the instrument they're most experienced with. Beyond that, you start to recognize individual pitches with varying degrees of resolution. I've never met anyone who could reliably pick out a note within 15 cents but that's still pretty accurate.

Most people who claim absolute pitch are singers. Their voice is their instrument so replicating an exact pitch is more basic for them. Many need to hum to themselves to feel the vibration and the stress in their vocal cords to accurately discern specific pitch.

I don't claim absolute pitch but I can get within a whole step over the vocal range given a few seconds to figure it out (put it in my octive, etc). I think more experienced singers just get in the habit of reading notes and being relatively close. Actually listening to a pitch and simply naming it is far harder.
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:12 pm UTC

i once played a random chord on a piano in high school music class, and a classmate who had perfect pitch named every note.
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby mosc » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:19 pm UTC

Chords aren't that different from notes. You just have to hear what the base of the chord is and then each chord has a distinctive sound to it. If you play C-E-G and I can identify the C correctly, the fact that you're playing a Major Chord makes it trivial to name the other notes. In fact, Chords can sometimes make it easier to identify the pitch than a single note.
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:21 pm UTC

well i meant it wasnt a "real" chord. i just hit a bunch of keys at once.
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby ++$_ » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:51 am UTC

segmentation fault wrote:
++$_ wrote:I'd never heard the chord before, but it was pretty easy to figure out what notes were being played. (I have absolute pitch.)


whats it like to have that? ive always wondered. do letters just pop up in your brain when notes are being played?
It's just like the way that when you look at something red, your brain automatically knows that the light reflecting off of it is of the "red" frequency. In the same way, when I hear a "C", I know that it's a C. It's not that a letter pops up in my head -- it just sounds like a C. Just like something looks red when it's red.

What's it like not to have perfect pitch? To me, it seems very strange. It seems to me analogous to the following. I put an apple and an orange on the table (where the apple is red, and the orange is orange). You say: "I don't know what colors these are, but I do know that the second one is one color higher than the first one. So if the first one is yellow, then the second one is green. And if the first one is green, then the second one is blue. But I don't know what color the first one is." And then I say, "Well, the first one is red," and you say, "Oh, in that case it's red, and the other is orange."

That sounds pretty bizarre to me, but it's how relative pitch works, as far as I can tell. Is that what it feels like?

If a chord has 3 or 4 notes, it's usually pretty easy for me to say what they are. On the other hand, for a monstrosity like the HDN intro chord, I have to do Fourier analysis to get the weaker frequencies. So basically, I ask myself, "Does this chord have resonance at the frequency of <fill in note>." This can, of course, be fooled by overtones/harmonics. So can Fourier analysis, which is why it's so important to know what instruments are playing so that you can subtract out their overtones.

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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby Alder » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:35 am UTC

++$_ wrote:t's just like the way that when you look at something red, your brain automatically knows that the light reflecting off of it is of the "red" frequency. In the same way, when I hear a "C", I know that it's a C. It's not that a letter pops up in my head -- it just sounds like a C. Just like something looks red when it's red.

What's it like not to have perfect pitch? To me, it seems very strange. It seems to me analogous to the following. I put an apple and an orange on the table (where the apple is red, and the orange is orange). You say: "I don't know what colors these are, but I do know that the second one is one color higher than the first one. So if the first one is yellow, then the second one is green. And if the first one is green, then the second one is blue. But I don't know what color the first one is." And then I say, "Well, the first one is red," and you say, "Oh, in that case it's red, and the other is orange."

That sounds pretty bizarre to me, but it's how relative pitch works, as far as I can tell. Is that what it feels like?

Wow. Best explanation of perfect pitch v relative pitch ever. I'll remember that one...
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Re: Beatles - Hard Days Night intro chord solved by SCIENCE

Postby esmooths » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:19 pm UTC

++$_ wrote:That sounds pretty bizarre to me, but it's how relative pitch works, as far as I can tell. Is that what it feels like?



I'd say that's a pretty good description. Despite the fact that I'm a pianist and composer, I have a pretty awful sense of pitch, but it's gotten better through training and practice. Unless a note I hear is a "reference" note (opens string on a violin, for example), I'd basically be guessing as to the pitch (I can't tell the apple is red). However, play a minor 6th interval, and I'd be able to tell you that's what it is, and therefore, if you tell me one note, the other is just a matter of knowing what a minor 6th is (I can see the "distances" between colors... ususally).

I've always wished I had absolute pitch, but I figured that then I'd probably be much less creative in writing music, just as a cosmic joke :)
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