Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

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Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Jasiel » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:21 pm UTC

Will post link after 5 post...

Anyway, this teen, Abraham Biggs, 17, posts on a Body Building forum that he will commit suicide by overdosing. He goes live on Justin.tv, while 4chan users egg him on to b 'an hero'.

I was there, and tried to talk him out of it (along with 130 other people), but sadly, 4chan got to him...and he died.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby cwoodin » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:45 pm UTC

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,24684860-5014239,00.html

Not that I'm not horrified, but this isn't the first time this has happened, is it?
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Maurog » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:50 pm UTC

Suicide booths any time now.

Should we be sorry for the guy or something? He wanted to suicide and he did. He wanted to make a show out of it, and he did. And for all I'm concerned, he had the right to do both.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Jebobek » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:59 pm UTC

I was a bit upset about the whole thing because he suffered from bipolar disorder. Some people that leave the depressive state become horrified that they actually considered killing themselves. They don't want to die.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby psyck0 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:01 pm UTC

Absolutely disgusting that no one took him seriously. If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.

This is terrible. If he really did have bipolar disorder, he was most likely in no fit frame of mind to make any sort of rational choice concerning life or death. We SHOULD be sorry for him; this was preventable.

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby idont_know12 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:23 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.
How the hell is calling the cops going to help anything?

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

idont_know12 wrote:
psyck0 wrote:If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.
How the hell is calling the cops going to help anything?

They hold him in custody so he can't hurt himself.

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 22/7 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:31 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:Absolutely disgusting that no one took him seriously.
It sounds like everyone took him seriously. /b/ isn't exactly the type to care that you've committed suicide beyond the entertainment they can pull from it.
Jasiel wrote:I was there, and tried to talk him out of it (along with 130 other people), but sadly, 4chan got to him...and he died.
To be honest, it doesn't sound like 4chan got to him, it sounds like he wanted to make his death a public spectacle and he did. I'd be surprised if the 130 of you could have talked him out of it even if the /b/tards weren't there.
Jebobek wrote:I was a bit upset about the whole thing because he suffered from bipolar disorder. Some people that leave the depressive state become horrified that they actually considered killing themselves. They don't want to die.
Mostly this. It's unfortunate that this happened (if for no other reason than that /b/ got some kicks out of someone killing themselves) as, with some medication to level him out, he may have actually wanted to keep on living. Impossible to know now, I supposed.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:37 pm UTC

There was another site i posted on, where a guy started a thread thanking the writers for all the laughs and explaining that he was ending himself. The site administrator traced his IP, called his ISP, and had them send an ambulance to the guy's house. Last i heard he was doing fine.

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Xeio » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:02 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
idont_know12 wrote:
psyck0 wrote:If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.
How the hell is calling the cops going to help anything?
They hold him in custody so he can't hurt himself.
This is the internet, how exactly do you call the cops on them? Also, if someone is intent on trying to kill themselves, you're going to be hard pressed to stop them...

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Angua » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:56 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:There was another site i posted on, where a guy started a thread thanking the writers for all the laughs and explaining that he was ending himself. The site administrator traced his IP, called his ISP, and had them send an ambulance to the guy's house. Last i heard he was doing fine.


Wow, it's good that someone on the internet took someone else seriously (it's good that the OP tried to talk that kid out of it as well) and went through all that trouble.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 22/7 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:15 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:This is the internet, how exactly do you call the cops on them?
The post directly before you wrote:There was another site i posted on, where a guy started a thread thanking the writers for all the laughs and explaining that he was ending himself. The site administrator traced his IP, called his ISP, and had them send an ambulance to the guy's house. Last i heard he was doing fine.
Edit: Apparently that needed to be bolded.
Last edited by 22/7 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Armadillo Al » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:41 pm UTC

Yes, that's all well and good, but how many of us have the capability to trace this guy's IP so we could do that?
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Socal Swimmer » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:49 pm UTC

Armadillo Al wrote:Yes, that's all well and good, but how many of us have the capability to trace this guy's IP so we could do that?


well all you need to know is his ip address, from there i would imagine its fairly easy.

In order to know his ip address, you would most likely have to contact the site administrator.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Ashi » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:24 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:
idont_know12 wrote:
psyck0 wrote:If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.
How the hell is calling the cops going to help anything?
They hold him in custody so he can't hurt himself.
This is the internet, how exactly do you call the cops on them? Also, if someone is intent on trying to kill themselves, you're going to be hard pressed to stop them...


To a point. However, they can put you in a psychiatric ward on constant surveillance, completely against your will, and inject drugs if you refuse to take them orally, if the psychiatrist so deems it necessary. It's disgusting how little privacy you have if you're on suicide watch; the staff is completely allowed to watch you shower to make sure you don't do anything. They keep a person with you at all times, and you're generally on restrict where you can't leave the ward for any privileged activity. They also check your meds in your mouth to ensure you swallowed them and aren't keeping them to overdose. So... yeah, once a person's been detained, they can keep him or her safe, even against that person's will.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Kizor » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:32 pm UTC

Been there, seen that, taken part in playing Internet detective, called Poison Control for information to ease the workload of people on the more relevant side of the Atlantic, seen images of license plates dug up, an ISP threatened for info, police from the narrowing general direction contacted, friends and associates tracked down for any possible help. The people are fine.

We have a shot at it, even online.

:(

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:Absolutely disgusting that no one took him seriously. If ...


You misunderstand the nature of 4chan. They were COMPLETELY aware of the potential of a human being to take their own life, and egged him on anyway. The nature of 4chan is anarchistic, they really don't care.

At all

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 22/7 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:26 pm UTC

KevorkianKat wrote:
psyck0 wrote:Absolutely disgusting that no one took him seriously. If ...


You misunderstand the nature of 4chan. They were COMPLETELY aware of the potential of a human being to take their own life, and egged him on anyway. The nature of 4chan is anarchistic, they really don't care.

At all
I believe the term you're looking for is nihilistic, then.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby psyck0 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:50 pm UTC

The people on the board (which was NOT a 4chan board) he was posting on DID NOT take him seriously, which is despicable.

/b/tards, in general, are a plague on humanity, some of the most despicable idiots in the world, and I would not miss them for a second.

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:59 pm UTC

What they don't tell you is that this guy had threatened to commit suicide several times before this and had never gone through with it. It's no wonder they didn't take him seriously.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Philwelch » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:51 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
idont_know12 wrote:
psyck0 wrote:If someone you know threatens to commit suicide, you fucking TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD AND CALL THE COPS.
How the hell is calling the cops going to help anything?

They hold him in custody so he can't hurt himself.


I once knew a man who lived in Idaho. He was a strident libertarian and emailed his suicide note to a few discussion lists before taking his life. (He was known as "Libertarian Larry" and I knew him mainly for his amusingly drunken tirades against virtually everyone on the list we were both on for a short period.)

Now, for most sheep, having the police come take you prisoner so you can't kill yourself might be a good idea. For someone who's devoted his entire ideology to being a free man, having the jackbooted thugs* surround your house in your last moments is only going to embolden your decision to kill yourself.

I don't have any grand conclusions to draw from this.

*His mentality, not mine.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby psyck0 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:03 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:What they don't tell you is that this guy had threatened to commit suicide several times before this and had never gone through with it. It's no wonder they didn't take him seriously.


They should have called the cops the FIRST time and gotten him some help.

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Socal Swimmer » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:15 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:What they don't tell you is that this guy had threatened to commit suicide several times before this and had never gone through with it. It's no wonder they didn't take him seriously.


They should have called the cops the FIRST time and gotten him some help.


he was on medication for bipolar disorder, so presumably he already had help. this did nothing to stop him from committing suicide.

now if they had called police the first time, he would have just waited till he got out, went into another depressive episode, and killed himself.

Its possible that calling the police the first time might have changed this (and it should have been done) but what are the chances that it would have turned out any differently?

I think they are pretty low.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Mysidic » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:37 am UTC

Wow. I know 4chan and /b/ have an audience of very malicious people, but I always just thought it was just part of the internet fuckwad theory. I hope that the people egging him on at least feel remorse for their actions. Maybe they just got caught up in the drama/excitement* of it, but you should never, ever egg on someone to kill themselves. I think that's a pretty obvious ethic. Why didn't the administrators trace him until it was too late?

*I don't think watching somebody kill themselves is exciting, but a mob can do stupid things.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Socal Swimmer » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:51 am UTC

Mysidic wrote:Wow. I know 4chan and /b/ have an audience of very malicious people, but I always just thought it was just part of the internet fuckwad theory. I hope that the people egging him on at least feel remorse for their actions. Maybe they just got caught up in the drama/excitement* of it, but you should never, ever egg on someone to kill themselves. I think that's a pretty obvious ethic. Why didn't the administrators trace him until it was too late?

*I don't think watching somebody kill themselves is exciting, but a mob can do stupid things.


I think its exciting because its so unusual. Its basically unbelievable to them, hence the excitement.

Have you ever studied mob psychology? people in herds do things they would never do on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_psychology#Classical_theories wrote:Each member's enthusiasm would be increased as a result [of acting in a crowd], and one becomes less aware of the true nature of one's actions.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:13 am UTC

I hold a theory that the intelligence of a mob works like resistance in parallel. So basically, Imob = 1 / (1 / I1 + 1/I2 + ... + 1 / In).

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby PatchMonster » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:37 am UTC

O my, this makes me hate /b/tards even more. I must confess I go on /b/ boards on occasion, on other chan sites. I thought the point of /b/ was to let your 'primal' self indulge itself there and there only. I hate to see people turn there lives upside down to follow this "Anon" stereotype.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Socal Swimmer » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:02 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:I hold a theory that the intelligence of a mob works like resistance in parallel. So basically, Imob = 1 / (1 / I1 + 1/I2 + ... + 1 / In).


i dont get it.

intelligence goes down?

okay.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby scwizard » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:28 am UTC

Encouraging someone to kill themselves is a terrible thing to do.

The purpose of the an hero meme in my opinion is to discourage people from whining on /b/, posting "my life sucks, I hate myself, wall of text describing my sob story."

I will admit that I've posted "an hero" in response to threads on /b/ that went something along the lines of "my girlfriend cheated on me, I'm so depressed right now I don't know what to do" (when I went to /b/, I don't go to 4chan anymore).

Now I didn't mean "you should kill yourself" what I mean was "you're stupid if you think /b/ is the place to go for counseling. Here I'm going to help demonstrate that /b/ is a bad place to go for counseling." I'd post this hoping that the person would actually turn to a wiser place for counseling, and that the person would stop cluttering up /b/ with stuff I really wasn't interested in reading. This is why people reply to topics that don't involve sadness or depression with "an hero", what they really mean is "don't ask for advice on /b/."

Now I'd imagine that people would post "an hero on webcam" or something along those lines in response in response to topics like "I just can't take this anymore, I think I want to kill myself." I never posted that response myself, but how I interpreted it was /b/'s way of saying "you're not actually serious about wanting to kill yourself and you know it. Cheer up emo kid."

And that is the light side of 4chan. Obviously 4chan isn't completely like that.

If 4chan was actually like that, something like this never would have happened, everyone would have tried to stop him the moment they had reason to believe that he was serious. The dark side is apathy, being anonymous and no longer having to pretend like they have sympathy for fellow human beings, some people find that they don't. For them when they say "an hero" they mean "I'd really prefer it if you killed yourself so I didn't have to listen to your whining." Doing something for your own amusement without having any sympathy for the other people involved, that is "teh lulz." Those people were the ones egging him on even in the final moments.

This is the way "lulz" is a corruption of "lol." Watching people hurt themselves because of their own stupidity is funny (see "America's Funniest Home Videos" for proof). However this only applies if the pain is a temporary transient thing. If the subject isn't all right in the end it's no longer funny, because you have some sympathy for the subject. Remove the sympathy and that kind of thing is funny, it's "lulzy." Now the reason /b/ would find something like "hacking" into a teenagers myspace and posting gay porn all over it funny, is because the way they see it the only reason the person is getting upset is because of that person's own stupidity, so it's funny to see that person making a big deal out of what to them is "just some website."

That's the way /b/ is able to find something like a person killing themselves on webcam "lulzy", because to them the person is making a big deal out of nothing and hurting themselves due to their own idiocy, and they lack any sympathy for the person before them who is in so much pain.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Mysidic » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:33 am UTC

Socal Swimmer wrote:I think its exciting because its so unusual. Its basically unbelievable to them, hence the excitement.

Have you ever studied mob psychology? people in herds do things they would never do on their own.


Well, I only really know the basics of mob psychology, but that was the gist of it.

Do you know if people in a mob go "I'm horrible for helping kill someone, I wish I hadn't done that" or "Hey, remember that time when we watched that kid OD?" after the event? Does it depend on the person or is their a general trend of afterthoughts? I only skimmed the wki article you linked.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Mysidic » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:45 am UTC

scwizard wrote:That's the way /b/ is able to find something like a person killing themselves on webcam "lulzy", because to them the person is making a big deal out of nothing and hurting themselves due to their own idiocy, and they lack any sympathy for the person before them who is in so much pain.


While I think that 4chan was defintly not the best place to go for help, I'm not sure how somebody can possibly see suicide as funny. I don't think they really took it seriously. Of course, I'm blind in this - I could never laugh at someone killing themselves. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic about 4chan(I've only heard about it, never visited it) but I think that mostly the intertubes got in the way of empathizing - if this was a person they knew they would have tried to stop it.

Of course, they could also just be soulless jackals but I don't really want to believe that. That probably means it's true =/
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby scwizard » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:59 am UTC

Mysidic wrote:
scwizard wrote:That's the way /b/ is able to find something like a person killing themselves on webcam "lulzy", because to them the person is making a big deal out of nothing and hurting themselves due to their own idiocy, and they lack any sympathy for the person before them who is in so much pain.


While I think that 4chan was defintly not the best place to go for help, I'm not sure how somebody can possibly see suicide as funny. I don't think they really took it seriously. Of course, I'm blind in this - I could never laugh at someone killing themselves. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic about 4chan(I've only heard about it, never visited it) but I think that mostly the intertubes got in the way of empathizing - if this was a person they knew they would have tried to stop it.

Of course, they could also just be soulless jackals but I don't really want to believe that. That probably means it's true =/

I don't think anyone on the site (or anywhere) is entirely sympathetic or entirely apathetic.

I'm not sure if anyone following this particular suicide found it lulzy or not, I would have to look at the comments that were coming over the webcam chat to find out.

But /b/ definitely found the death of Mitch Henderson funny, so ya you're being a tad optimistic. (see http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Mitchell_Henderson)
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby roc314 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:10 am UTC

I wish I could say that this only happens on /b/, but that would be unwarranted optimism.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28491

A few weeks ago a similar event happened in real life. People everywhere on every medium are bastards.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby scwizard » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:33 am UTC

roc314 wrote:I wish I could say that this only happens on /b/, but that would be unwarranted optimism.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28491

A few weeks ago a similar event happened in real life. People everywhere on every medium are bastards.

wtf? I don't get how how anyone could do something like that if they weren't anonymous. I mean not only are the people cheering him on going to get labeled by everyone they know as compete utter assholes, but they could also face legal prosecution for being an accessory in that person's death.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 4=5 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:42 am UTC

if someone wants to kill themself don't stop them, how are they going to learn if you don't let them make mistakes?

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby Maurog » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:13 am UTC

Does anyone else think that maybe /b/ is not the right place for a severely bipolar person to hang?

I mean, it's like a werecow living across a butcher's shop. An accident waiting to happen.
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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:51 am UTC

scwizard wrote:The purpose of the an hero meme in my opinion is to discourage people from whining on /b/, posting "my life sucks, I hate myself, wall of text describing my sob story."

I will admit that I've posted "an hero" in response to threads on /b/ that went something along the lines of "my girlfriend cheated on me, I'm so depressed right now I don't know what to do" (when I went to /b/, I don't go to 4chan anymore).

Now I didn't mean "you should kill yourself" what I mean was "you're stupid if you think /b/ is the place to go for counseling. Here I'm going to help demonstrate that /b/ is a bad place to go for counseling." I'd post this hoping that the person would actually turn to a wiser place for counseling, and that the person would stop cluttering up /b/ with stuff I really wasn't interested in reading. This is why people reply to topics that don't involve sadness or depression with "an hero", what they really mean is "don't ask for advice on /b/."
Oh! Of course! You're like the IT help desk getting a call about a spill in the cafeteria. They need to go ask the janitor for help because he's the one that's equipped to deal with spills, you only help with IT related issues. How stupid of them. So when they call the IT help desk and ask you to send someone down to clean up a spill, you tell them that they're fucking stupid, right? Probably ask them if they're actually mentally disabled, whether or not they can tie their own shoes, etc.? I'm sorry, but you're full of shit and all the self-justification in the world won't change the fact that mocking someone who has expressed suicidal thoughts/tendencies rather than trying to help them is bad, and you should feel bad.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby scwizard » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:42 pm UTC

I'm sorry, but if people on /b/ took every person there who said that they were depressed and were contemplating suicide seriously, that would just lead to swarms of trolls posting that type of thing.

It's not feasible to take seriously every person on the internet who posts anonymously saying that they're depressed. How do you know that they're not making it up (trolling)? How do you know that they're not just desperate for attention (being emo drama queens)?

I guess in retrospect it might have been a better idea to explicitly post "dude, 4chan is not the place you should be asking for advice" just in case as you said they're mentally disabled and really can't take a hint. However to use your analogy saying "we're sorry, this is IT we can't help you with your problem" and saying "dude, why would you cal IT about this? are you retarded or something" is the same recommendation, just differences in politeness. Because surely you understand that it's not feasible for IT to actually go clean up the cafeteria spill.
~= scwizard =~

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:48 pm UTC

No one is asking you to swing from interweb to interweb having deep, emotionally draining conversations with everyone who has ever mentioned that they're depressed on the internet. But that's a far cry from actively mocking someone crying out for help. I don't care if he's crying wolf, it's still a cry for help and you mocked it.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

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Re: Kid O.D.'s live on webcam while 4chan users egg him on.

Postby scwizard » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:52 pm UTC

So I should have just ignored it? I would argue that the mocking response was more useful to the person.
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