Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Will » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:57 pm UTC

I'm a little bit impressed that the article didn't include any real blaming of the video game involved. Maybe Wacky Jacky's disbarment is a sign of things to come?
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Arc » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

scrovak wrote:When you factor in the framing of his father, it makes it sound more like this kid has been watching too much CSI and Law and Order. I guess we'll have to start banning NBC and CBS, huh?

It makes it sound like he was watching too much CSI and not paying attention. Or he has a genetic defect that causes him to lack fingerprints.
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They said their client had been under great stress because of a snowboarding accident that resulted in a severe staph infection.
I love how they just slip this in at the end.

Yeah. Didn't they think that was worth mentioning, you know, around the time they started talking about how he killed his parents? Not that it absolves his actions, but it makes me refrain from arriving at the conclusion that the guy is completely insane or something.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby GhostWolfe » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:55 pm UTC

Arc wrote:
scrovak wrote:When you factor in the framing of his father, it makes it sound more like this kid has been watching too much CSI and Law and Order.
It makes it sound like he was watching too much CSI and not paying attention. Or he has a genetic defect that causes him to lack fingerprints.
I don't think the kid was thinking that far ahead. Once he saw the gun, he probably formed some half-baked plan and toddled off to the lounge room to carry it out.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:56 am UTC

22/7 wrote:
TheAmazingRando wrote:I agree, locking up the game in the same box as a gun is asking for trouble.
Why? Why does it matter that it was in the same box as the gun if it's locked? Would you rather they leave the gun lying about somewhere and only lock up the game?
That's kind of a false dichotomy, don't you think? I would rather they leave the gun locked up somewhere the kid has no way of accessing, that's way more important to me than where they choose to hide a harmless video game. If the box had actually been securely locked, it would have been fine to keep the game there too.

But if you're leaving the key somewhere easy for the kid to access, locking it up is about as secure as leaving it in a shoebox in your closet. Putting the game there means there's a good chance the kid will go there, and anything that makes the kid more likely to come across the gun is a bad idea.

I'm not saying it's the fault of the parents at all, the kid sounds like a psychopath. There's a good chance the murder was premeditated, in which case the game being near the gun would mean nothing. But the situation that ran through my head when I read the article was: kid is angry, opens lockbox, gets game, sees gun, gets ideas. Clearly, it would take a twisted mind to jump to that conclusion, and you can't blame the parents for not accounting for the fact that their child might be a psychopath, it just strikes me that it's possible the murder would not have happened had the kid not chanced upon the gun while looking for the game.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Kachi » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:45 am UTC

I wouldn't expect them to blame the video game being as, lest my reading comprehension failed me, he didn't even get a chance to play it before shooting his parents. Which is not to say they couldn't have blamed, say, Halo 2.

Anyway, signs point to psychopathy. That's some sinister shit.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby 22/7 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:
22/7 wrote:
TheAmazingRando wrote:I agree, locking up the game in the same box as a gun is asking for trouble.
Why? Why does it matter that it was in the same box as the gun if it's locked? Would you rather they leave the gun lying about somewhere and only lock up the game?
That's kind of a false dichotomy, don't you think? I would rather they leave the gun locked up somewhere the kid has no way of accessing, that's way more important to me than where they choose to hide a harmless video game. If the box had actually been securely locked, it would have been fine to keep the game there too.
It sounds like the box was securely locked (it took the kid a month to get the game back), and the game clearly isn't harmless to this kid, as he was willing to murder his parents over it.
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22/7 wrote:
Kaiyas wrote:
They said their client had been under great stress because of a snowboarding accident that resulted in a severe staph infection.
I love how they just slip this in at the end.
Yeah, I couldn't figure out how that played a part either, or how you'd get staph while snowboarding. I guess if you were using someone else's gear that hadn't been washed in a year or something?
Did you continue reading? Sounds like he was more or less homebound after that, recovering from the infection, which is why it would cause a great deal of stress. (Seriously, sit in your house for a year, and then tell me you feel as fine as the day you started.)

The infection itself could have come from exposure of some kind after the injury itself. From the hospital, perhaps, or something like that.
Yeah, I did continue reading, I don't consider being laid up in bed for a year to be a legitimate reason to murder two people. I understand perfectly well how being inside too much can do a number on your psyche, as can not being exposed to enough sunlight and any number of other environmental pressures. Lots of people deal with these kinds of stressors on a daily basis without murdering family members, friends, coworkers, etc. Maybe a court will consider it an extenuating circumstance, but I doubt it.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Spuddly » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:44 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:I just have one question. Why would you put the game IN THE SAME BOX AS YOUR HANDGUN. The kid plays videogames; the next step from there would be obvious to anyone who does.


I don't get this sentiment. At all. Could one of you who reiterated it in this thread explain your reasoning to me?
I mean, this is what I think your think:

One should not put videogames in locked boxes where there are handguns, because if a teenager goes looking for the game, and finds it, he now also has a gun, and he will attempt to kill you and your wife with it.

Is that what you guys are saying? It's not very convincing.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby 22/7 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:08 pm UTC

Spuddly wrote:
Nougatrocity wrote:I just have one question. Why would you put the game IN THE SAME BOX AS YOUR HANDGUN. The kid plays videogames; the next step from there would be obvious to anyone who does.


I don't get this sentiment. At all. Could one of you who reiterated it in this thread explain your reasoning to me?
I mean, this is what I think your think:

One should not put videogames in locked boxes where there are handguns, because if a teenager goes looking for the game, and finds it, he now also has a gun, and he will attempt to kill you and your wife with it.

Is that what you guys are saying? It's not very convincing.
Oh me yarm Oh, RTFT. It's barely more than a page long.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby GreaterSteven » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:49 pm UTC

In Halo, players shoot alien monsters that have taken over the Earth and is rated M for mature players.


I rest my case.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Kachi » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:58 pm UTC

I see, so what really happened is that his parents are actually alien bodysnatchers.

Give that kid a medal.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby GreaterSteven » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:04 pm UTC

Well, if he were playing GTA or something, you'd have a case. But not Halo.

(I was actually referring to the bad English that was prevalent in the article)

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Indon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:The point is that people can be unpredictable, and none more than teenagers. There's nothing about the article to indicate that he was overly indoctrinated with religion, or that his parents were abusively overprotective.

Would that be necessary? Do you have to screw up in one, massive, glaring way to raise someone without the moral capacity to realize murder is bad?

Nougatrocity wrote:I suppose that guy in South Korea who got convicted of rape wouldn't have committed it if his parents had raised him right, so of course it makes sense to punish the parents for it. That's a real-life extension of the conclusion you are steering towards, and it's pretty gorram frightening.


If I could prove in court that someone's parents never taught him that rape/murder or whatever is bad, I could easily establish their (civil, or criminal if the statute of limitations for an associated crime had not expired) liability under our current laws. That would be pretty hard to do, though.

Well, maybe not in civil court, where circumstancial evidence and a lack of a defense sometimes can result in a successful case, due to less stringent burden of proof requirements, but still, you're arguing a slippery slope over something that actually can, in theory, happen in our legal system, right now.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Kachi » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:05 pm UTC

People never do things that they are unable to justify at the time, short of an accident. And you only need to be able to justify whatever it is you're going to do for as long as it takes you to do it. Temporary insanity is really not a prevalent defense as it ought to be (personal opinion).

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:23 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
Nougatrocity wrote:The point is that people can be unpredictable, and none more than teenagers. There's nothing about the article to indicate that he was overly indoctrinated with religion, or that his parents were abusively overprotective.

Would that be necessary? Do you have to screw up in one, massive, glaring way to raise someone without the moral capacity to realize murder is bad?

Nougatrocity wrote:I suppose that guy in South Korea who got convicted of rape wouldn't have committed it if his parents had raised him right, so of course it makes sense to punish the parents for it. That's a real-life extension of the conclusion you are steering towards, and it's pretty gorram frightening.


If I could prove in court that someone's parents never taught him that rape/murder or whatever is bad, I could easily establish their (civil, or criminal if the statute of limitations for an associated crime had not expired) liability under our current laws. That would be pretty hard to do, though.

Well, maybe not in civil court, where circumstancial evidence and a lack of a defense sometimes can result in a successful case, due to less stringent burden of proof requirements, but still, you're arguing a slippery slope over something that actually can, in theory, happen in our legal system, right now.


So we'll just call Eric Menendez's parents' deaths a suicide by proxy, then.

BECAUSE THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE IS BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS FORGOT TO SAY THEY SHOULDN'T. You're fucking DENSE, man.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Spuddly » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Spuddly wrote:
Nougatrocity wrote:I just have one question. Why would you put the game IN THE SAME BOX AS YOUR HANDGUN. The kid plays videogames; the next step from there would be obvious to anyone who does.


I don't get this sentiment. At all. Could one of you who reiterated it in this thread explain your reasoning to me?
I mean, this is what I think your think:

One should not put videogames in locked boxes where there are handguns, because if a teenager goes looking for the game, and finds it, he now also has a gun, and he will attempt to kill you and your wife with it.

Is that what you guys are saying? It's not very convincing.
Oh me yarm Oh, RTFT. It's barely more than a page long.


Whoa, relax their, big guy. Nougatrocity wasn't the only one expressing that sentiment. That's why I asked for those who REITERATED that sentiment to explain it to me.

More specifically, these two fellas:

scrovak wrote:FUnny isn't it though?

Of course they can't blame videogames, the kid didn't even get to play it before he shot his parents for preventing him from playing it. And seriously, putting the game WITH the gun? That's like, hiding a knife in your anus. It's THAT bad of an idea.



TheAmazingRando wrote:I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought the article was absolutely terribly written. It's a sad story, but it seems like they're trying to spice it up and make it sound even sadder.

I agree, locking up the game in the same box as a gun is asking for trouble.

Don't most stores have a policy of not selling M-rated games to people under 17? I'm surprised there hasn't been a lawsuit brought up there.


So, um, OMGWTFBBQ!!!!
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:42 pm UTC

I already did explain myself. See the fourth post down on this page.

I must missed the part where it said it took the kid a month to get to it when I first read the article, I was under the impression that the murder happened a day or two later. That changes things quite a bit, because it sounds like the parents did lock it up pretty securely.

I still think that it's slightly possible that the murder wasn't planned until he saw the gun, but I think the time frame makes premeditation much more likely.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:49 pm UTC

There's a pretty good chance the kid has some mental problems. Psych reports are rarely released to the press if they're conducted after the fact. Also, sociopathy is notoriously hard to diagnose.
I think maybe the box was just the general "lets not let our kid near this shit" place. We don't know what else was in there.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby 22/7 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:55 pm UTC

Virtual_Aardvark wrote:There's a pretty good chance the kid has some mental problems. Psych reports are rarely released to the press if they're conducted after the fact. Also, sociopathy is notoriously hard to diagnose.
I think maybe the box was just the general "lets not let our kid near this shit" place. We don't know what else was in there.
It's also the official position of the mental health industry (for lack of a better term) that sociopathy cannot be diagnosed in minors.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Felstaff » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:46 am UTC

He's refused a game and one month later, *bam* parents dead.

A guy at work bought a car out of the paper once. Ten years later, *bam* herpes.

Aside from the unusual location of the game, there's no link or evidence to support/detract the 'videogames are violent' debate, which a lot of people have wondered why there isn't more of it heaped on in the article. (I kind of praise the article for that). Halo 3 has become a complete MacGuffin in this tragedy. Had little parent-slayer said "this is for not letting me play Halo 3!" before he shot his parents, then there may be a case. However, aside from the fact his father put the game in the gun box, there's nothing really the game adds to the story. Yes, he was banned from playing it, but a month passed. That's long enough for even the most resolute of antagonised disaffected teenagers to get over it. No, there are other reasons for why he shot his parents (the tacked-on Staph infection may be one) and the refusal of the game would have acted as an enzyme (perhaps even a linchpin) for the premeditated act, but not the sole reason.

My amateur extrapolation:
  • The boy, being angry with his parents and in a particularly shooty mood, went to get his father's gun.
  • Opens the lock-box.
  • 'Holy fuck, there's my Halo 3! I've been looking for that'
  • *Yoink*
  • Goes and decorates the living room a nice shade of brain.
  • Escapes in van, game in tow.
  • Is caught: media pick up on violent-game-on-killer's-personage
  • Hack writes article choosing to begin the story from the moment the game was confiscated, creating link-by-association in gullible reader's subconscious
  • Result: "Halo 3 killed his mother, and wounded his father!"*

*Obviously, it would stake impressive stupidity to come to this conclusion, but that's the power of news; sometimes you can unblinkingly accept facts when reading them from a source you unblinkingly accept as trustworthy. DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Grop » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:11 am UTC

You make a good point, Felstaff.

I can't resist suggesting a stupider conclusion: Let's Allow Teens to Play Halo 3. Or Wear Bulletproof Helmets.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:42 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:So we'll just call Eric Menendez's parents' deaths a suicide by proxy, then.

Suicide has to be intentional.

Nougatrocity wrote:BECAUSE THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE IS BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS FORGOT TO SAY THEY SHOULDN'T. You're fucking DENSE, man.

And being a bad parent isn't remotely that simple. As noted earlier, you don't have to fail in one, glaring way.

I guess he could be a sociopath, I could definitely see there being difficulty in terms of diagnosis for minors there, even if he was 16.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby 22/7 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:20 pm UTC

Indon wrote:I guess he could be a sociopath, I could definitely see there being difficulty in terms of diagnosis for minors there, even if he was 16.
It's not a matter of a difficulty in diagnosis, a decent number of mental health professionals believe that sociopathy should be diagnosable before adulthood (18) as they believe that it's present in children much younger, but technically it's a diagnostic criteria. My understanding is that at least part of the reason it cannot be diagnosed before 18 is that children are essentially born sociopathic and maturing mentally and emotionally is "growing out of it".
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:18 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:My amateur extrapolation:
  • The boy, being angry with his parents and in a particularly shooty mood, went to get his father's gun.
  • Opens the lock-box.
  • 'Holy fuck, there's my Halo 3! I've been looking for that'
  • *Yoink*
  • Goes and decorates the living room a nice shade of brain.
  • Escapes in van, game in tow.

I was relating this story to my ex, and this is the exact scenario he came up with as well.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:11 am UTC

Ultimately, it comes down to one question: was he looking for the gun or the game? Which could perhaps be answered by asking whether he knew either of those items were there before he opened the box.

I agree that as parents, they should have realized his supposed obsession with these violent games, and if nothing else concluded that the gun and the game should be stored separately so as not to give him any ideas, even if only in a worst-case scenario. Of course the point is moot, because the key to the gun (whether the game was with it or not) shouldn't have been accessible to him.

Maybe they should have tried to make up by buying him a less violent game? Gran Turismo perhaps?
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Chai Kovsky » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:57 am UTC

It's possible that this box wherein the gun was stored was the safest place in the house for both game and gun, and because they didn't want to risk EITHER being found/used, the parents put both in there.
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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby incognito » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:53 am UTC

I"m inclined to agree that the video game in and of itself was not the main instigator in the murder.

Although it's impossible to say what went on in this kid's head from the article alone, the situation is reminiscent of violent offenders who mastermind school shootings.

Video games, violence on TV, ..., etc are only harmless so long as the individual can separate fantasy from reality, which is the case for most people. Being home bound and more or less socially isolated (or restricted) for such a long period, this kid probably spent a little too much time with his thoughts, allowing for the creation of his own brand of warped reality. And with no one to tell him otherwise it ended in the murder of his mother. I bet he only realized until much later the gravity of what he had done.

...or maybe he's a sociopath, i'm fully open to that. Anyway you look at it the kid is seriously disturbed and in need of major help.

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Re: Teen Not Allowed to Play Halo 3; Shoots Parents in Heads

Postby Solid Freeman » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:57 pm UTC

scrovak wrote:FUnny isn't it though?

Of course they can't blame videogames, the kid didn't even get to play it before he shot his parents for preventing him from playing it. And seriously, putting the game WITH the gun? That's like, hiding a knife in your anus. It's THAT bad of an idea.


Just like to mention that in prisons, inmates hide their shanks in their rectums all the time; where else would they keep them? :|
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