McDonalds profits off weak

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McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:54 pm UTC

Reading this.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1872629,00.html

Its easy to hate success when you're not part of it. Viewpoints like this against McDonalds and Walmart only further hurt our economy. Which company's should we emulate.. The ones going under? Or maybe we should work towards being structured to survive hard times and still make a profit.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Kachi » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Success of an individual company does not equate to success for the American economy. That aside, the nutritional quality of McDonald's food is so poor (even though they market its nutritional value), its success bodes to the success of the healthcare industry. So yeah, it profits off of those who are financially or educationally weak.

I mean, the tobacco industry is still going strong, too. That doesn't mean they deserve any praise.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby frezik » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:06 pm UTC

How about a viewpoint that supports quality over quantity? Not having to rebuy the same thing after it breaks is money that can be used elsewhere.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:57 pm UTC

frezik wrote:How about a viewpoint that supports quality over quantity? Not having to rebuy the same thing after it breaks is money that can be used elsewhere.


But food is food is food. You can choose healthier than McDonalds, but in the end you've got to eat.

The food industry is one of the anchors of any economy. There might be more profiting industries, but if this one is shabby you can guaranty the rest are too.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby fjafjan » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

externalities. More people eat at mcdonalds, more people get fat, more people get less productive and more people get sick. The economy suffers.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:39 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:Its easy to hate success when you're not part of it. Viewpoints like this against McDonalds and Walmart only further hurt our economy. Which company's should we emulate.. The ones going under? Or maybe we should work towards being structured to survive hard times and still make a profit.
My reasoning for not liking companies like Walmart is that they take perfectly good brands and run them into the ground for profit. This leads to nothing but shitty brands being built by sweatshops overseas being available in the US. In addition, their approach to beating out competitors for customers is almost always to remove said competitor via either buying up the company or keeping their prices low enough that the smaller businesses can't compete until they're run out of business. No competition is bad for any system that is even remotely based on capitalism. In addition to that, I've heard numerous horror stories as to how the company fosters an attitude towards their employees that is much the same as a meat-packing plant might have toward a cow.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:06 pm UTC

22/7 wrote: In addition, their approach to beating out competitors for customers is almost always to remove said competitor via either buying up the company or keeping their prices low enough that the smaller businesses can't compete until they're run out of business.


This is only because of the size of the system. Walmart doesn't run all competition out the window, they run out small businesses. Target, KMart and other large stores do the same thing. (and create competition for walmart) This complaint is only valid if you have the same problems with those companies. Small businesses will always fail when fighting bigger hands.

In addition to that, I've heard numerous horror stories as to how the company fosters an attitude towards their employees that is much the same as a meat-packing plant might have toward a cow.


Hogwash. People get treated fairly, and un-fairly everywhere. Walmart employees are targeted because its not a good lifetime career, more suited for those not dependent on one income source. (Teenagers and Retirees)

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:21 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:
22/7 wrote: In addition, their approach to beating out competitors for customers is almost always to remove said competitor via either buying up the company or keeping their prices low enough that the smaller businesses can't compete until they're run out of business.
This is only because of the size of the system. Walmart doesn't run all competition out the window, they run out small businesses. Target, KMart and other large stores do the same thing. (and create competition for walmart) This complaint is only valid if you have the same problems with those companies. Small businesses will always fail when fighting bigger hands.
I have problems with all companies engaging in such techniques, but Walmart is especially bad about it. I assume this has something to do with the fact that they are (to my knowledge) the biggest, and so it's relatively easier for them.
hunsak wrote:
In addition to that, I've heard numerous horror stories as to how the company fosters an attitude towards their employees that is much the same as a meat-packing plant might have toward a cow.
Hogwash. People get treated fairly, and un-fairly everywhere. Walmart employees are targeted because its not a good lifetime career, more suited for those not dependent on one income source. (Teenagers and Retirees)
Uh, no, Walmart employees get targeted by me because I've known a number of people (about 10) who have worked there for more than a couple of weeks and they've all had terrible experiences with it. And this is at all (local) levels, not just cashiers and stock-boys.

Also (and primarily), the part of my post you ignored, that they take perfectly good companies and run them out of business for profit.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby frezik » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:36 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:
frezik wrote:How about a viewpoint that supports quality over quantity? Not having to rebuy the same thing after it breaks is money that can be used elsewhere.


But food is food is food. You can choose healthier than McDonalds, but in the end you've got to eat.

The food industry is one of the anchors of any economy. There might be more profiting industries, but if this one is shabby you can guaranty the rest are too.


I don't see how the above justifies McDonalds, specifically. There are alternatives that are both healtier AND cheaper.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Garm » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:37 pm UTC

Not to mention Walmart is extremely active in their anti-union activies, a practice that is at its heart, fundamentally un-American.

Reading through the article I don't see a lot of hate for McDonalds outside the first paragraph. Saying criticism of the store or business model hurts our economy is like saying that overt criticism of Bush hampered his response to Katrina. It's specious reasoning.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:but Walmart is especially bad about it.


Can you point out what Walmart is especially bad at, in comparision to Target? Walmart isn't out there trying to shut down competition. They are simply trying to provide the same products for a smaller price. Their size allows them to do this. Really, if its picking on the little buisnesses, We the people would be at fault for prefering lower prices.

Uh, no, Walmart employees get targeted by me because I've known a number of people (about 10) who have worked there for more than a couple of weeks and they've all had terrible experiences with it. And this is at all (local) levels, not just cashiers and stock-boys.


So you've got a bad branch. I'm certain you can find that with any place. Bad management happens everywhere. It ebbs and flows. Walmart certainly isn't trying to make it hard on employees. Some manager is. When walmart finds out about it, they act. How is Walmart (the BUISNESS) supporting bad employee treatment?

Also (and primarily), the part of my post you ignored, that they take perfectly good companies and run them out of business for profit.


I definatly spoke to this. See my comments on big business always having more power because of their ability to shop and ship from larger markets. Also Pefectly good companies cant get run out of business (hence the 'perfect')

You make it sound like Walmart's hired a hit man to drop off the local fruit stand. This is far from the truth. Evole or die is a better explanation for this one.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:44 pm UTC

If you don't want to help McDonalds make a profit, don't eat there. I don't eat there because I think their food is horrible, as is the case in most fast food franchises.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Not to mention Walmart is extremely active in their anti-union activies, a practice that is at its heart, fundamentally un-American.


Ah i new it. Walmart wont bend to the will of the Unions... Hence the name calling (un-american). Hence the power struggle. Heaven forbid someone else have a business system that works without your hiarchy model.

We cant take sucess for what it is.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:00 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:Can you point out what Walmart is especially bad at, in comparision to Target? Walmart isn't out there trying to shut down competition.
I highly doubt this is true. It's in the best interest of all companies to shut down competition, as long as they can do it legally.
hunsak wrote:They are simply trying to provide the same products for a smaller price. Their size allows them to do this. Really, if its picking on the little buisnesses, We the people would be at fault for prefering lower prices.
Seriously? No, their goal is not to offer the same products for a lower price, their goal is to make money. Additionally, I specifically stated that the quality of the products offered gets poorer as their competition is run out. They realize that people are looking for the lowest prices and so price is the important thing, not quality. This leads to low quality products being imported from whatever company is willing/able to make the product the cheapest. Additionally, Walmart requires that the companies they buy from decrease their prices each year, which simply isn't sustainable.
hunsak wrote:
Uh, no, Walmart employees get targeted by me because I've known a number of people (about 10) who have worked there for more than a couple of weeks and they've all had terrible experiences with it. And this is at all (local) levels, not just cashiers and stock-boys.
So you've got a bad branch. I'm certain you can find that with any place. Bad management happens everywhere. It ebbs and flows. Walmart certainly isn't trying to make it hard on employees. Some manager is. When walmart finds out about it, they act. How is Walmart (the BUISNESS) supporting bad employee treatment?
No, I don't have a bad branch, I know about 10 people who have worked at more than 10 different branches who have all had terrible experiences. And I don't particularly care if Walmart (the BUSINESS) is actively supporting managers being pricks to employees or paying them too little or working them too much or requiring unrealistic working hours or anything else. If I notice that the same thing is happening in every Walmart that I've knowledge of, it will bias me against that company. Oh, and remember that I said that I know ex-Walmart managers, too. They weren't particularly fond of the place, either.
hunsak wrote:I definatly spoke to this. See my comments on big business always having more power because of their ability to shop and ship from larger markets. Also Pefectly good companies cant get run out of business (hence the 'perfect')
Try reading what I'm writing. I'm not talking about their competitors, I'm talking about the companies providing them products to sell. Oh, and perfectly good companies absolutely can be run out of business, regardless of whether or not you're being pedantic.
hunsak wrote:You make it sound like Walmart's hired a hit man to drop off the local fruit stand. This is far from the truth. Evole or die is a better explanation for this one.
It's little to nothing to do with evolution. And no, I don't make it sound like Walmart is whacking local fruit vendors. I make it sound like I disapprove of their business tactics and prefer not to shop there whenever possible.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby The Reaper » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

I don't really see Unions as all that pro-american either. :\ I tend to equate them to the mob.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Indon » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:08 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Not to mention Walmart is extremely active in their anti-union activies, a practice that is at its heart, fundamentally un-American.


Nonsense. Exploiting people (the poorer, the better) is extremely American, and Walmart is a shining paragon of Americanism.

But about the actual article, I don't so much see anything wrong with what McDonalds is doing. It seems to be a story of how they improved the quality of their service while simultaneously remaining inexpensive and convenient - McDonalds is doing well because it's offering a service very well, and because it's business strategies are favorable to recessions (when does it become a depression?).
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:12 pm UTC

frezik wrote:
hunsak wrote:
frezik wrote:How about a viewpoint that supports quality over quantity? Not having to rebuy the same thing after it breaks is money that can be used elsewhere.


But food is food is food. You can choose healthier than McDonalds, but in the end you've got to eat.

The food industry is one of the anchors of any economy. There might be more profiting industries, but if this one is shabby you can guaranty the rest are too.


I don't see how the above justifies McDonalds, specifically. There are alternatives that are both healtier AND cheaper.


Good point, i agree. There are better options. Healthier is an option to all of us. Yet WE continue to choose 'taste' or 'speed' over health. (lets not argue "McD's food tastes horrid". Their profit proves that america in general is 'lovin' it'.)

McDonalds continues to do good business in the face of economic resession. This is because they bring fast, satisfactory food to people for a low price. Not because they prey on the innocent endowed with few brain cells.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Garm » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:19 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:
Garm wrote:Not to mention Walmart is extremely active in their anti-union activies, a practice that is at its heart, fundamentally un-American.


Ah i new it. Walmart wont bend to the will of the Unions... Hence the name calling (un-american). Hence the power struggle. Heaven forbid someone else have a business system that works without your hiarchy model.

We cant take sucess for what it is.


It's not so much a hierarchy model that I demand, it's the right to free assembly granted us by the constitution. There are many problems with Walmart that Unions could help redress. One is the propensity to not allow employees to work long enough during a week so that the company needs to grant them benefits. This seems somewhat unethical to me but helps keep operating costs down. Another sleazy practice is opening a store in a small town and then selling at a loss in order to drive local business under.

Edit: @Indon. Very funny. Sadly, kinda true too.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:26 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:I disapprove of their business tactics and prefer not to shop there
whenever possible.


Understood. I'm just trying to point out that this is an anti-big buisness viewpoint. It does not only involve walmart, but should be included to anything big---Lego's, Dell, or Nike.

But people arn't upset about this. They are upset about the change that comes to their community when Walmart shows up--money flows there. Is it really wrong that one buisness figures out how to win customers from another?

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:29 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:Reading this.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1872629,00.html

Its easy to hate success when you're not part of it. Viewpoints like this against McDonalds and Walmart only further hurt our economy. Which company's should we emulate.. The ones going under? Or maybe we should work towards being structured to survive hard times and still make a profit.


considering i blame americas obesity problem solely on the dollar menu....no. they might be successful but its at the expense of our nations health. i wouldnt mind if their food was somewhat healthy. as for wal mart, they treat their employees like shit.

but i guess you can call it success if the mission was to gain massive profits while fucking over hardworking people.

hunsak wrote:Good point, i agree. There are better options. Healthier is an option to all of us. Yet WE continue to choose 'taste' or 'speed' over health.


its not taste or speed, its price. i can attest to the fact that there are many people whose lunch consists of 2 items off the dollar menu every day, especially in this economic environment.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:41 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:its not taste or speed, its price. i can attest to the fact that there are many people whose lunch consists of 2 items off the dollar menu every day, especially in this economic environment.
In fairness, it's a combination of price, speed and convenience, but the two big ones there are price and convenience. Don't be fooled, convenience almost always wins out in the US.
hunsak wrote:Understood. I'm just trying to point out that this is an anti-big buisness viewpoint. It does not only involve walmart, but should be included to anything big---Lego's, Dell, or Nike.
It's like you're not reading my posts. I'm against the specific practices which I've either personally seen or have been told of second hand that Walmart regularly engages in. One that I find particularly offensive was just mentioned by Garm. They move into a new community and instead of trying to compete directly, they sell at a loss until the local places with smaller profit margins go under. I find that sleazy. I'm not against big business at all, I'm against sleazy business practices.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:43 pm UTC

Garm wrote:It's not so much a hierarchy model that I demand, it's the right to free assembly granted us by the constitution.


No one is stopping you from joining a Union. Go find a business that uses the Union model and enjoy.

And yes, walmart has a right to protect itself (by firing those trying to make unions) from loosing control over their business to a Union.

Union models work. So does Walmarts.

There are many problems with Walmart that Unions could help redress.

And many problems with Unions that Walmart could help redress. :)

Another sleazy practice is opening a store in a small town and then selling at a loss in order to drive local business under.

This practice is called predatory pricing, it is also illegal in many forms. Wikipedia has a great article on allegations against walmart.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-lart#Allegations_of_predatory_pricing_and_supplier_issues

Walmart's practices have been taken all the way to the supreme court and were upheld. If you've got a problem with that, then walmart and the supreme court is evil. See previous comments about how 'American' it is to pick on the poorer.
Last edited by hunsak on Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:but i guess you can call it success if the mission was to gain massive profits while fucking over hardworking people.


'fucking' over hardworking people? Rly? Evidence. I demand it now.

its not taste or speed, its price. i can attest to the fact that there are many people whose lunch consists of 2 items off the dollar menu every day, especially in this economic environment.


Right but this isn't because people are being smart about it. Ramen and Mac and Cheese cost much less than 2 bucks. Like 22/7 said earlier---its about the convience.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:15 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:'fucking' over hardworking people? Rly? Evidence. I demand it now.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

enjoy

hunsak wrote:Right but this isn't because people are being smart about it. Ramen and Mac and Cheese cost much less than 2 bucks. Like 22/7 said earlier---its about the convience.


ramen and mac and cheese are also insanely unhealthy. and convenience? i can go to the same store that sells ramen and mac and cheese and buy something alot healthier. only difference is i can afford it.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:28 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:This practice is called predatory pricing, it is also illegal in many forms. Wikipedia has a great article on allegations against walmart.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-lart#Allegations_of_predatory_pricing_and_supplier_issues

Walmart's practices have been taken all the way to the supreme court and were upheld. If you've got a problem with that, then walmart and the supreme court is evil. See previous comments about how 'American' it is to pick on the poorer.
Yes, I'm aware of what it is, and just because the SC decided that there wasn't sufficient evidence of wrong doing doesn't mean that I have to like it. Sleazy != illegal. And that shit about "if you've got a problem with (SC not declaring Walmart's pricing illegal) then the SC is evil" is bullshit. Don't put words in my mouth.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:35 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:
hunsak wrote:'fucking' over hardworking people? Rly? Evidence. I demand it now.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

enjoy


I did.
Wikipedia wrote:For the concern of jobs, a study commissioned by Wal-Mart with consulting firm Global Insight, found that its stores' presence saves working families more than US$2,500 per year, while creating more than 210,000 jobs in the U.S.[35][36]


Wikipedia wrote:Another study at the University of Missouri found that a new store increases net retail employment in the county by 100 jobs in the short term, half of which disappear over five years as other retail establishments close.


Obviously such a big organization cant exist without touching those around them. All i see here is overreaction to good buisness. Not 'fucking over hardworking people'. I'm wondering, did you read the article?

In 2004, two professors at Pennsylvania State University asserted that although rates of poverty actually decreased in U.S. counties with Wal-Mart stores, their data suggested that poverty increased after "correcting" the data with an undocumented mathematical formula.


Who's 'fucking around' now?

ramen and mac and cheese are also insanely unhealthy. and convenience? i can go to the same store that sells ramen and mac and cheese and buy something alot healthier. only difference is i can
afford it.


Are you really saying that there is no cheap healthy food?
Last edited by hunsak on Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:37 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:Are you really saying that there is no cheap healthy food?


I don't know if they're saying that, but I certainly will.

No. There is no wealth of readily available, cheap healthy foods.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:42 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
hunsak wrote:Are you really saying that there is no cheap healthy food?


I don't know if they're saying that, but I certainly will.

No. There is no wealth of readily available, cheap healthy foods.


Lol

You must be buying 'health' food. The kinds with inserted proteins and vitamins. The kind that costs a fortune and still isn't as good as your average glass of orange juice.
Last edited by hunsak on Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:48 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:47 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:¡This cheese is burning me!, you must be buying 'health' food. The kinds with inserted proteins and vitamins. The kind that costs a fortune and still isn't as good as your average glass of orange juice.


No. Try plain old vegetables, fruit, and meat.

Have you shopped in a grocery store recently?

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:53 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Have you shopped in a grocery store recently?


Yes I have. Prices have been rising. (I rarely buy much less milk now)

And the definition of cheap doesn't equate to prices rising. But if you're looking for cheap healthy food, then your best option probably is walmart. A place that does it's best at keeping prices low.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:And the definition of cheap doesn't equate to prices rising. But if you're looking for cheap healthy food, then your best option probably is walmart. A place that does it's best at keeping prices low.


'Recently' might have been a mistake; I didn't mean to imply that healthy food is costly only now; it's been costly for a while. It's getting much more expensive, of course.

I've shopped at Wal-Mart a few times. So far, all the produce I've bought from them has been rotten. As in, literally, rotting (and I always check before making my purchase, by the way--it was just barely not rotten enough to be noticeable until I actually started using it). The only produce I've purchased at a Wal-Mart that hasn't turned out to be completely inedible was some bananas, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's because it is really hard to fuck bananas up.

Anyway, that's beside the point--cheap, healthy food is not widely available. You also need to factor in other 'peripheral' costs--time (you could be spending that time making more money!), preparation (electricity, water, cleaning, tools, etc), so on. That's not to say it's impossible to eat healthy in our current economical climate; I manage pretty well and I'm certainly not rolling in dough. But let's not pretend it's as easy as going out and buying cucumbers every week.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:16 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:So far, all the produce I've bought from them has been rotten. As in, literally, rotting...


And your right here. Walmart sucks when it comes to fresh produce. Too bad no ones making the argument that Walmart is bad for the economy because of rotten tomatoes.

Anyway, that's beside the point--cheap, healthy food is not widely available. You also need to factor in other 'peripheral' costs--time (you could be spending that time making more money!), preparation (electricity, water, cleaning, tools, etc), so on. That's not to say it's impossible to eat healthy in our current economical climate; I manage pretty well and I'm certainly not rolling in dough. But let's not pretend it's as easy as going out and buying cucumbers every week.


Good point. It's not that easy...

Which brings us full circle. America wants convience, health, and low prices. Usually they are willing to settle for two of the above. And because Walmart and Mcdonalds especially cater to that during hard times they get labeled 'sleazy'.

That isn't just wrong. Its suicidal.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby fjafjan » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:21 pm UTC

Hey, it's nice of you to ignore my post which did make the argument, implicitly, that walmart are bad because of rotten Tomatoes.
Externalities, read from there. It's not very long.
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:37 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:Hey, it's nice of you to ignore my post which did make the argument, implicitly, that walmart are bad because of rotten Tomatoes.
Externalities, read from there. It's not very long.


Ah, i see it now. (No walmart mentioned there. Nor rotten tomatoes. :wink:)

I read your point as McDonalds hurts the economy by making us fat. I didn't argue that, because I do agree on that end.

Every business will do some harm and help to the economy. Point is to do more help than harm. These businesses fall into that category. We would be much worse off economically if Walmart and Mcdonalds had gone under.

*Trying to pay as much attention as possible.*

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:39 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:Which brings us full circle. America wants convience, health, and low prices. Usually they are willing to settle for two of the above. And because Walmart and Mcdonalds especially cater to that during hard times they get labeled 'sleazy'.

That isn't just wrong. Its suicidal.


It is pretty sleazy, so long as we're defining sleazy as 'willing to profit off of other people's suffering'. McDonald's isn't making you eat their carefully preserved McGreaseBurger (which archeologists now believe formed sometime in the Mesozoic), but they're spiking it with an extra injection of Deliciousnesstm and a piping hot side of Cheap-As-Fucktm.

Should you have enough self-control and self-respect to put the burger down and pick up an apple? Sure. I'm not going to say that McDonald's is responsible for the epidemic of heart problems America is currently facing; America is responsible for the epidemic of heart problems America is currently facing. But let's not let McDonald's off with a smile, a pat on the back, and a cry of "Capital idea, good chum!". It's sleazy to sell a smorgasbords of weapons-grade corn syrup to hyperactive 6 year olds, just like it's sleazy to smack a cartoon character on a carton of cigarettes even as you swear that you aren't selling these to children, oh no, you would never ever do that (wink wink).

McDonald's isn't breaking the law; they aren't running with do-it-yourself surgery kits and jamming our arteries full of gobs grease when we aren't looking. They're just selling us cheap, horrible food, and then shrugging their shoulders and going "Hey! It's not our fault you enjoy cheap, horrible food!". No, it isn't their fault, but they're still a bunch of sleazeballs and if I were a God-fearing sort of man I'd assume there's a special place waiting for them in the hereafter.

And the Hamburglar is the one in charge.

hunsak wrote:We would be much worse off economically if Walmart and Mcdonalds had gone under.


There are always more sleazeballs ready to fill in the gaps.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

hunsak wrote:
fjafjan wrote:Hey, it's nice of you to ignore my post which did make the argument, implicitly, that walmart are bad because of rotten Tomatoes.
Externalities, read from there. It's not very long.


Ah, i see it now. (No walmart mentioned there. Nor rotten tomatoes. :wink:)


look it up if you dont know what it means, but the jist is this:

walmart sells rotten produce
selling rotten produce is fucked up
walmart is fucked up -> main argument
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Dream » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:05 am UTC

hunsak wrote:And because Walmart and Mcdonalds especially cater to that during hard times they get labeled 'sleazy'.

No, it's been pointed out several times that the reasons people have for criticising Wal-Mart are not that they cater to lowest common denominator customers. IF you keep on thinking that that is what everyone is arguing, you'll never understand their position.

hunsak wrote:And yes, walmart has a right to protect itself (by firing those trying to make unions) from loosing control over their business to a Union.

Isn't there this right to freedom of assembly and speech and expression? Now, I know that constitutionality never got in the way of a pro-big business law, but seriously. Do you actually believe that Wal-Mart should be allowed to fire people for organising? What's the point of America if its people aren't free to use collective bargaining power?
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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:15 am UTC

i saw this instead :(
segmentation fault wrote:
hunsak wrote:
fjafjan wrote:Hey, it's nice of you to ignore my post which did make the argument, implicitly, that walmart are bad because of rotten Tomatoes.
Externalities, read from there. It's not very long.


Ah, i see it now. (No walmart mentioned there. Nor rotten tomatoes. :wink:)


look it up if you dont know what it means, but the jist is this:

walmart sells rotten produce
selling rotten produce is fucked up
walmart is fucked up -> main argument


I do i seem to be campaigning for a perfect Walmart? Selling sub-par fruit although fucked up isn't exactly hurting the economy. Nor is it sleazy.. Nor, might i add, is selling 'fat' food.

Is it really businesses responsiblity to make certain that you never use their product in a way harmful to society? Do we really need more warnings on deoderant to 'not apply to eyes'? Products sold should be taken at face value.

Keeping people in the dark is wrong. On these issues, no one is kept in the dark any longer. Everyone knows tobacco is bad for you, but they still do it. Everyone knows that eating McDonalds can make you fat. They still eat there. So yes, old chum, captitalism works out great.

I personally enjoy a McD meal about once a week. I always feel fat afterwards so i go out and work out harder that day. Somehow i maintain my slim apperances. (No thanks to that gawd awful McD's)

I am not saying "Praise Walmart!" I'm saying people who preach evil from simple good business are just being inflamatory.

Like i said previously, these companies do much more good than harm.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby hunsak » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:18 am UTC

Dream wrote:Isn't there this right to freedom of assembly and speech and expression? Now, I know that constitutionality never got in the way of a pro-big business law, but seriously. Do you actually believe that Wal-Mart should be allowed to fire people for organising? What's the point of America if its people aren't free to use collective bargaining power?


Yes but that doesn't mean that companies cant fire you because you say or do things against them.

No one would be surprised if walmart fired an employee who was protesting walmart with his freedom of speech.

So why would anyone be surprised if walmart fired an employee who was protesting walmart's decisions with his freedom to assemble.

No one is stopping these freedoms. They are only saying that specific conduct is required while part of the company.

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Re: McDonalds profits off weak

Postby Dream » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:37 am UTC

hunsak wrote:Yes but that doesn't mean that companies cant fire you because you say or do things against them.

No one would be surprised if walmart fired an employee who was protesting walmart with his freedom of speech.

So why would anyone be surprised if walmart fired an employee who was protesting walmart's decisions with his freedom to assemble.

No one is stopping these freedoms. They are only saying that specific conduct is required while part of the company.

They aren't firing them for opposing the company. They are firing them for assembling and associating at all. That's an infringement of rights, not a business PR decision.
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