Photography = terrorism

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Photography = terrorism

Postby Jesse » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:16 pm UTC

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPa ... age=836675 (Thankyou to Malice for the link)

From February 16th it's going to be illegal in the UK to take photographs in a public place if a police officer suspects you could be aiding terrorism by doing it. This comes with a potential of ten years in prison and a fine. Taking photos of police officers will be illegal if said police officer doesn't want you to, since the judgement is in their hands. This is yet another reason that this country terrifies me.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:26 pm UTC

Dude, just...holy shit.

Solution: thousands of people show up and photograph police precincts?
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Maurog » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:31 pm UTC

Will they keep asking "what are your crimes?" like Scientologists do when people approach them with a camera?
I guess it will actually make sense coming from a police officer...

Hopefully it will backlash and people will turn taking pictures of policemen with their cellphones into a habit.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Mzyxptlk » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:35 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:illegal in the UK to take photographs in a public place if a police officer suspects you could be aiding terrorism by doing it thinks you look too much like an Arab.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Dream » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:20 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:Taking photos of police officers will be illegal if said police officer doesn't want you to, since the judgement is in their hands. This is yet another reason that this country terrifies me.

Fuck. Like, two days ago, I made the decision to move back to the UK. What a wonderful welcoming gift.

If anyone is about to jump in here thinking "who cares about that dude who was shot dead on the tube, I'm sure the police will handle this appropriately," read this. It's about what happens if you actually go through all the bullshit necessary to bring a serious complaint against the police for misusing their powers. And the best barometer of on side's policies is if the other pack starts making perfect sense while bashing them, without exaggerating at all.

Grrrr.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:48 pm UTC

For a minute I thought this thread was going to be about the guy who got arrested by Amtrak cops for taking pictures of Amtrak trains for an Amtrak amateur photography contest. This, however, is decidedly worse. Note to self. Do not be a tourist in the UK.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Dream » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:07 pm UTC

Don't worry, tourists are safe. It's protesters and dissidents and minorities that will get it in the neck with this.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby psyck0 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:07 pm UTC

Jesus... how is this stuff getting PASSED?!?!

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Dream » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:18 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:Jesus... how is this stuff getting PASSED?!?!

You know what else gets passed? Stools get passed. Stools.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Kizyr » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:03 pm UTC

Mzyxptlk wrote:
Jesse wrote:illegal in the UK to take photographs in a public place if a police officer suspects you could be aiding terrorism by doing it thinks you look too much like an Arab or a Brazilian electrician.


Dream wrote:Don't worry, tourists are safe. It's protesters and dissidents and minorities that will get it in the neck with this.

Er, what if you're a tourist that's also a minority? KF
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Lumpy » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:30 pm UTC

So if I went planespotting in the United Kingdom, stood outside, and took a picture of one of their planes like I did over here with a U.S. Air Force plane from about 1.5 miles away, I'd be arrested?

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Huitzilopochtli » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:48 pm UTC

It may become an interesting psychological study. Especially if this law gets strongly enforced or abused, or if GB continues in this fine art of paranoid lawmaking.

What happens when you start to treat your citizens as criminals. What happens when a majority of citizens feel that there is a good chance they'll be harassed/fined/imprisoned on account of some absurd over-extensive ill-defined law.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:04 pm UTC

Lumpy wrote:So if I went planespotting in the United Kingdom, stood outside, and took a picture of one of their planes like I did over here with a U.S. Air Force plane from about 1.5 miles away, I'd be arrested?

Isn't that flag supposed to be painted the other way?

It depends, are you white or one of tham dirty A-rabs? Because I have a feeling that'd be the determining factor.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:16 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
Lumpy wrote:So if I went planespotting in the United Kingdom, stood outside, and took a picture of one of their planes like I did over here with a U.S. Air Force plane from about 1.5 miles away, I'd be arrested?

Isn't that flag supposed to be painted the other way?

It depends, are you white or one of tham dirty A-rabs? Because I have a feeling that'd be the determining factor.
Apparently it's often (if not always) displayed that way. It's symbolic of actually running into battle with a flag and the flag would flap behind you as you ran. http://www.flagpride.com/news/soldier.php
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:17 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Isn't that flag supposed to be painted the other way?
I think that flags on planes are supposed to be painted as if they were being flown (so the "left" side of the flag should be toward the front of the vehicle), but my memory is rusty here.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:20 pm UTC

Ah, makes sense. Thank you.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:23 pm UTC

Shit, man! Don't take my word for it. That's a terrible idea.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby slow2learn » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:30 pm UTC

government camera = good
citizen camera = evil
WTF

Isnt it wierd that a place with such extensive government survelliance could outlaw its own citizens of doing the same?
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Darkscull » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:44 pm UTC

Maurog wrote:Will they keep asking "what are your crimes?" like Scientologists do when people approach them with a camera?
I guess it will actually make sense coming from a police officer...

Hopefully it will backlash and people will turn taking pictures of policemen with their cellphones into a habit.


The first thing I thought when I read the OP was that this will make some of the scientology protests a lot more challenging. Some police forces have swallowed the bullshit about anonymous being cyberterrorists.

I'm most definitely going to start taking photos of police whenever I see them (when I remember) after this has come in.


edit:
the article wrote:According to Tallis, the officer then tried to take the camera away. Before giving up, the officer said that Tallis 'shouldn't have taken that photo, you were intimidating me'. The incident was caught on camera by photojournalist Marc Vallee.


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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:54 pm UTC

Holy crap. *hugs american flag*

We got out in the nick of time 200 years before all this crap happened

phew. Now to get the rest of you out. I reccommend....hmmmm.....distributing 1984 to all GB citizens
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:01 pm UTC

Darkscull wrote:edit:
the article wrote:According to Tallis, the officer then tried to take the camera away. Before giving up, the officer said that Tallis 'shouldn't have taken that photo, you were intimidating me'. The incident was caught on camera by photojournalist Marc Vallee.


awesome.
Wow. I wonder if the cop believed that the camera was stealing his soul...
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jesse » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:18 pm UTC

All I know is, I just ordered a cameraphone.

What frightens me more than anything, nobody was reporting this. This should have been plastered across the news, and it wasn't. Guys, I'm moving to Boston the moment I can afford it.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Paranoid__Android » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:37 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:All I know is, I just ordered a cameraphone.

What frightens me more than anything, nobody was reporting this. This should have been plastered across the news, and it wasn't. Guys, I'm moving to Boston the moment I can afford it.


Why is Boston any better?
The police aren't going to stop persecuting you just because you moved house.
It's not even that nice of a place to be honest.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:50 pm UTC

Is there a Boston, UK?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Paranoid__Android » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:25 pm UTC

yeah, the original one.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Mabus_Zero » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:29 pm UTC

Does this have something to do with the cop accidentally being busted on a cell phone accidentally executing an anonymous black man?
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jack Saladin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:41 pm UTC

In the sense that's one of the things they're trying to stop with these laws, yes. But it wasn't the cause... The UK has been inching towards outright totalitarianism and authoritarianism for a long time. I guarantee that within ten years the UK will be as bad as the Soviet Union ever was, and it'll only get worse from there unless the people do something about it.

To the inhabitants of Britain on these forums: Don't let your government get away with this shit. Don't let your fellow citizens go uninformed about these law changes. If you wait until it's too late to take action, if you wait until things have really gotten Orwellian bad, that's exactly when you won't be able to accomplish shit. You have to stop things now, while you still can.

If Orwell was trying to say one thing with 1984, it's that society would be permanently fucked if it ever got to that point. Permanently fucked. It's absolutely essential that it never gets there in the first place. You're the only generation that will be able to stop it.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Lumpy » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:52 pm UTC

This should have been plastered across the news, and it wasn't.


Every time there's a privacy story, I always see it on the Internet, or online newspapers, but never anywhere else.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Dream » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

Lumpy wrote:
This should have been plastered across the news, and it wasn't.


Every time there's a privacy story, I always see it on the Internet, or online newspapers, but never anywhere else.

Privacy? This is much more important that privacy. Expanding police powers like this is almost always a bad idea. But defending the police from scrutiny? That is seriously fucked up. And yes, if you took photos of military aircraft in the UK, I'd imagine they'd at the very least go through your camera and threaten you a bit before letting you go.

My theory is that this is aimed at a growing and powerful protest movement in the UK that is gaining momentum week on week. It's Smash EDO, Plane Stupid, CND, these people being acquitted, the village of Sipson and many, many more. The police don't want to be surveilled while surveilling these groups, and certainly don't want evidence of abuses gaining them publicity and sympathy. There are already targeted police operations intended to intimidate these people, and I'd imagine the fuzz would like to do more of the same.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Maseiken » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:30 am UTC

Darkscull wrote:
Maurog wrote:Will they keep asking "what are your crimes?" like Scientologists do when people approach them with a camera?
I guess it will actually make sense coming from a police officer...

Hopefully it will backlash and people will turn taking pictures of policemen with their cellphones into a habit.


The first thing I thought when I read the OP was that this will make some of the scientology protests a lot more challenging. Some police forces have swallowed the bullshit about anonymous being cyberterrorists.

To be fair, people only started thinking Anonoymous was dangerous when they found Anonymous talking about how badass and dangerous they are.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Marbas » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:45 am UTC

But defending the police from scrutiny?


This is really bad because police are already WAY too good at that on their own. Blue code of silence and all that.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Malice » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:54 am UTC

Jack Saladin wrote:In the sense that's one of the things they're trying to stop with these laws, yes. But it wasn't the cause... The UK has been inching towards outright totalitarianism and authoritarianism for a long time. I guarantee that within ten years the UK will be as bad as the Soviet Union ever was, and it'll only get worse from there unless the people do something about it.

To the inhabitants of Britain on these forums: Don't let your government get away with this shit. Don't let your fellow citizens go uninformed about these law changes. If you wait until it's too late to take action, if you wait until things have really gotten Orwellian bad, that's exactly when you won't be able to accomplish shit. You have to stop things now, while you still can.

If Orwell was trying to say one thing with 1984, it's that society would be permanently fucked if it ever got to that point. Permanently fucked. It's absolutely essential that it never gets there in the first place. You're the only generation that will be able to stop it.


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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jesse » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:02 am UTC

I was talking about Boston, MA.

Jack: I've been informing everyone I know of this, I've also written to two local MP's and every newspaper and news program I can get the address for. It's getting the news out that's difficult.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Joeldi » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:11 am UTC

It seems that just now with the US embracing the left, the UK is sinking in to Ingsoc. And This filter thing in Australia is even more scary to me.
I was thinking of eventually moving to Britain but this thread among other things is tearing up that idea.
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Bakemaster » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:25 am UTC

Dream wrote:
psyck0 wrote:Jesus... how is this stuff getting PASSED?!?!

You know what else gets passed? Stools get passed. Stools.

I'm imagining you as Gabe from PA, here.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby The Reaper » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:29 am UTC

Don't worry, UK, we'll free the shit outta you. <3
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Paranoid__Android » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:43 am UTC

I've never been oppressed by the police, and probably never will be.



unless I put this shiny new camera to work...
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby 4=5 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:44 am UTC

holy fuck, One of the few things that let me know about the police abusing a little bit of their power here was the guy with a video camera watching the whole thing

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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby scwizard » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:00 am UTC

For a long time police have harassed photographers of all sorts. Especially ones taking photographs for police misconduct. This legitimizes it, expect to see photographer harassment of deviants of all sorts become more common. This also means they're allowed to take your cellphone away from you if you try and make a call with it, because a cellphone is a camera. Expect to see hard core oppression of freedom of speech follow shortly behind.

I predict a year until a UK journalist is arrested without charges.
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Re: Photography = terrorism

Postby Jack Saladin » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:09 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:It seems that just now with the US embracing the left,

Uhh... What? The centre-right, maybe. The right of the centre-right (admittedly an improvement over the extreme right evangelical bullshit they've been wallowing in). Obama doesn't even come close to "left" and he sure as shit wouldn't be able to get any left policies through even he was. The American people are certainly not "embracing the left" to any extent whatsoever.

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