Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:29 pm UTC

http://www.komonews.com/news/40436267.html
Seattle, Washington USA.

SEATTLE - A security video released Friday shows a King County sheriff's deputy purportedly shoving and kicking a 15-year-old girl in a holding cell after her arrest.

The security video was obtained by KOMO News under the state Open Records Act.

The deputy, Paul Schene, 31, has been charged with fourth-degree assault in connection with the Nov. 29 incident in a holding cell at SeaTac City Hall. Schene pleaded not guilty to the charge Thursday, and he was released on his own recognizance..

According to court records, Schene and another deputy arrested a pair of 15-year-old girls for investigation of auto theft after they were stopped driving a stolen car.

The girls were taken to the holding facility at SeaTac City Hall for fingerprinting and other processing.

Trouble allegedly began after Schene escorted one of the teens into a holding cell. While trying to take her shoes off, the girl kicked off her left shoe, which struck the deputy in the shin, the document said.

The video shows the girl crossing her arms and kicking off her shoe through the doorway of the cell. The video then shows the deputy's violent response.

Court records say Schene kicked the teen in the upper thigh area, then pushed her into the back wall before taking her down on the floor and putting her in a handcuffing position. Once on the floor, Schene grabbed the teen's hair and yanked her head and neck upward, the document said.

With the help of the other deputy, Schene then handcuffed the teen, the document said. While doing so, Schene appeared to strike the teen twice overhead, investigators noted. However, due to the angle of the camera, they could not determine whether the deputy had actually hit the teen.


Watch the video.

It takes a shockingly short amount of time for these two men to kick this girl, punch her in the face, smash her head into the wall, throw her to the ground, pull her hair and punch her in the head a few more times, cuff her and then drag her out by the hair. Less than a minute, actually.
I think this clearly goes above and beyond necessary force, for fuck's sake.

But my favorite part is the end, where one of them walks back in with a rag, in case he has to clean up any blood, and checks the wall and floor where her face was smashed.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

User avatar
Brooklynxman
Because I'm Awesome
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:27 pm UTC
Location: Here
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:35 pm UTC

Seriously glad I'm on a school computer and cant look right now.

That sounds......to a 15 year old girl.....shit man
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:01 pm UTC

This article enlightens us further in that the car that she stole belonged to a member of her family.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/401 ... ene28.html
I wonder if this was a misbehaving child situation that just got rapidly out of hand.
"Oh me yarm let's take my dad's car. No, we'll totally get away with it!"
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

spent
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:44 am UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby spent » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:09 pm UTC

"We had argued strenuously that the videotape released to the media this morning not be released because it does not tell the whole story of the incident," attorney Anne Bremner said in a statement.


These people need a serious lesson in sticks and stones.

User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
Posts: 3113
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

My first thought was "Fuck that girl for being a douchbag pain in the ass to a cop".

Then I saw the video.

That reaction was way to quick and way too over the top, looks like brutallity.


Ixtellor
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

Dani
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:00 pm UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Dani » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:18 pm UTC

I really wonder about people sometimes. What was going on in that cops head? Oh, a shoe hit me. That barely hurt. I think I shall beat the crap out of this little girl.

Seriously, what mind process is there? Aren't there psychological tests you need to take before becoming a cop?

User avatar
Veracious Sole
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:05 pm UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Veracious Sole » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

I have viewed this video multiple times with the utmost attention to detail. After taking in all of the facts, seeing the angle the "strikes" were made at, and seeing the belligerent demeanor of the the female criminal, it is clear that this was an act of self defense. In the beginning of the video you can see that the gentlemanly police officers are treating her with the utmost respect as they escort her into the holding cell. Once inside they slowly begin to close the door (so as to assure she will not be hurt as it swings shut on its hinges.) You can even see, seconds before things go awry, the policemen asking her if she needs anything to make her stay more comfortable. (possibly a glass of water, or a nice, hot meal prepared by the in-station chef.)

Then with absolutely no provocation whatsoever the Woman flies into a terrifying rage! Before the door can be closed entirely she flings one of her shoes off her feet and towards the policemen with the accuracy and speed of a trained assassin. If you watch closely, you will even see a quick glint of silver light spark off the tip of the shoe as it is hurled through the door. What might that be you ask? Well, according to the latest light-spectrum analysis techniques it is clear that it is a keenly sharpened blade protruding from the tip of the shoe. A deadly weapon indeed!

Despite having been assaulted in such a violent manner the police officer bravely responds in the most efficient way possible. First, leaping heroically through the doorway, he quickly closes the distance so as to keep the offender from bringing forth more deadly footwear. Then, he throws his leg out in front of him. A successful block that prevents her from drawing the gun she has hidden in her garter straps. After this, he forces her to the wall, taking care to keep her back towards him so that she cannot make use of her hands or feet against his person.

At this point he has her partially under control, but she is still resisting the arrest that is necessary to prevent her from hurting herself or others. To remedy this the policeman gently, softly lowers the girl to the ground. Almost zen like in the action. He places her carefully on her stomach and proceeds to attach the handcuffs. After this is done he gives the girl a few loving pats on her head. As if to say "I know you've had a hard life, but fret not. I am here for you. I will be your rock, your strength. I will be the pillar of support that you have yearned for all your life, but have never found. I will not leave your side. We will work through this together." Then he slowly brings her to her feet and the two walk out arm in arm. No longer solitary souls adrift in an infinite universe.

I am eternally grateful that we have people on the police force who are ready to go above and beyond the call of duty to protect people from themselves and to show them that there are still people in the world who care. Who knows what could have happened had that kind, brave man not been there to show that girl the way. Would she have broken out of the holding cell and killed thousands? No. That is obviously an obscene extreme. However, one or two killings, possibly a rape, those are not outside the realm of possibility. Luckily due to the actions of this selfless individual we will not have to discover what may have been. There will be no dress uniform showing up at a mother's door to tell her that her family was killed in a furious murder spree. No, not today.
Last edited by Veracious Sole on Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
"I never knew words could be so confusing," Milo said to Tock as he bent down to scratch the dog's ear.
"Only when you use a lot to say a little," answered Tock. ~The Phantom Tollbooth~

Dani
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:00 pm UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Dani » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:47 pm UTC

Veracious Sole wrote:I have viewed this video multiple times with the utmost attention to detail. After taking in all of the facts, seeing the angle the "strikes" were made at, and seeing the belligerent demeanor of the the female criminal it is clear that this was an act of self defense. In the beginning of the video you can see that the gentlemanly police officers are treating her with the utmost respect as they escort her into the holding cell. Once inside they slowly begin to close the door (so as to assure she will not be hurt as it swings shut on its hinges.) You can even see, seconds before things go awry, the policemen asking her if she needs anything to make her stay more comfortable. (possibly a glass of water, or a nice, hot meal prepared by the in-station chef.)

Then with absolutely no provocation whatsoever the Woman flies into a terrifying rage! Before the door can be closed entirely she flings one of her shoes off her feet and towards the policemen with the accuracy and speed of a trained assassin. If you watch closely, you will even see a quick glint of silver light spark off the tip of the shoe as it is hurled through the door. What might that be you ask? Well, according to the latest light spectrum analysis techniques it is clear that it is a keenly sharpened blade protruding from the tip of the shoe. A deadly weapon indeed!

Despite having been assaulted in such violent manner the police officer bravely responds in the most efficient way possible. First, leaping heroically through the doorway, he quickly closes the distance so as to keep the offender from bringing forth more deadly footwear. Then, he throws his leg out in front of him. A successful block that prevents her from drawing the gun she has hidden in her garter straps. After this he forces her to the wall, taking care to keep her back to him so that she cannot make use of her hands or feet against his person.

At this point he as her partially under control, but she is still resisting the arrest that is necessary to prevent her from hurting herself or others. To remedy this the policeman gently, softly lowers the girl to the ground. Almost zen like in the action. He places her carefully on her stomach and proceeds to attach the hand cuffs. After this is done he gives the girl a few loving pats on her head. As if to say "I know you've had a hard life, but fret not. I am here for you. I will be your rock, your strength. I will be the pillar of support that you have yearned for all your life, but have never found. I will not leave your side. We will work through this together." Then he slowly brings her to her feet and the two walk out arm in arm. No solitary souls adrift in an infinite universe.

I am eternally grateful that we have people on the police force who are ready to go above and beyond the call of duty to protect people from themselves and to show them that there are still people in the world who care. Who knows what could have happened had that kind, brave man not been there to show that girl the way. Would she broken out of the holding cell and killed thousands? No. That is obviously an obscene extreme. However, one or two killings, possibly a rape, those are not outside the realm of possibility. Luckily due to the actions of this selfless individual we will not have to discover what may have been. There will be no dress uniform showing up at a mothers door to tell her that her family was killed in a furious murder spree. No, not today.



You, sir, need to become a spin-doctor.

User avatar
wst
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby wst » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:03 pm UTC

I timed it. 17 seconds. Fuck.

By 'pulled hair' they mean 'thrown by hair'. Fucking hell. It's like someone pressed the 'fast forwards' button as soon as she kicks her shoe off...
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

User avatar
Malice
Posts: 3894
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Malice » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:04 pm UTC

Veracious Sole wrote:I have viewed this video multiple times with the utmost attention to detail. After taking in all of the facts, seeing the angle the "strikes" were made at, and seeing the belligerent demeanor of the the female criminal it is clear that this was an act of self defense.


You, sir, need to testify for the defense.
Image

User avatar
william
Not a Raptor. Honest.
Posts: 2418
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:02 pm UTC
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby william » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

It's things like this that make me think the volunteer army will naturally create an army of psychopaths and so we need a new draft.
SecondTalon wrote:A pile of shit can call itself a delicious pie, but that doesn't make it true.

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:40 pm UTC

I...hate cops.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

Lt Greatsocks
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:55 am UTC
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Lt Greatsocks » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

I don't know man. That girl looked pretty ripped. I think the cop shoulda fired a couple warning shots just to be safe. She looked dangerous.
Fuck you, I'm the Crowing.

EmptySet
Posts: 1196
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:33 am UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby EmptySet » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:48 pm UTC

Sounds pretty bad. I'd comment further, but... the video is on the same page as the article, right? If so, it's probably illegal for me to look at the page. Grrr...

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:Sounds pretty bad. I'd comment further, but... the video is on the same page as the article, right? If so, it's probably illegal for me to look at the page. Grrr...


Wow, that definitely poses an interesting case study of that stupid Aussie law.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
roc314
Is dead, and you have killed him
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:48 am UTC
Location: A bunker, here behind my wall
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby roc314 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:42 am UTC

Fuck that deputy.

Seriously, fuck him.

I can't think of anything else to say about this.
Hippo: roc is the good little communist that lurks in us all
Richard Stallman: Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.
suffer-cait: roc's a pretty cool dude

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Belial » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:59 am UTC

Ixtellor wrote:My first thought was "Fuck that girl for being a douchbag pain in the ass to a cop".

Then I saw the video.

That reaction was way to quick and way too over the top, looks like brutallity.


Ixtellor


"Police brutality is okay, but only if it's not *really bad*. And only if the person whose rights are being violated, the assault victim, is being kindof a dick and hurting the cop's feelings."

Man, what the fuck.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

apeman5291
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby apeman5291 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:06 am UTC

I detected a change of opinion with the phrase "Then I saw the video."
What you don't understand, you can make mean anything.

User avatar
TheGrammarBolshevik
Posts: 4878
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:12 am UTC
Location: Going to and fro in the earth, and walking up and down in it.

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:08 am UTC

Not a shift in the opinion that Belial is describing. Ix changed his mind after he saw the video and learned the intent of the brutality, but not just because police brutality is inherently wrong.
Nothing rhymes with orange,
Not even sporange.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Belial » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:25 am UTC

Correct. I was taking issue with the attitude that it could ever be acceptable to beat someone for being a "pain in the ass" to some cops.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:30 am UTC

Well, I imagine that someone could conceivably phrase a cop taking justifiable measures to subdue a person in a way that sounds like assault. Words can be sensationalized.

Then again, given that the video in question takes place within a holding cell, with no mention of the girl trying to escape, I can't imagine anything beyond locking the door as justified.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Nath » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:05 am UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Not a shift in the opinion that Belial is describing. Ix changed his mind after he saw the video and learned the intent of the brutality, but not just because police brutality is inherently wrong.
Belial wrote:Correct. I was taking issue with the attitude that it could ever be acceptable to beat someone for being a "pain in the ass" to some cops.

Whether an action is a justifiable use of force or an act of police brutality is a matter of degree and circumstances. Being a 'pain in the ass' can mean several things, ranging from eye-rolling to swinging a knife around.

Using any amount of force on someone for being rude or inconvenient is clearly not acceptable. It's often reasonable to use minimal force to restrain someone physically resisting arrest, or extreme force to restrain someone who is an immediate physical threat. Clearly, neither of these was the case here, but one would have to read the article or watch the video to find that out. The headline indicates some use of force, but doesn't make it clear whether it qualifies as police brutality.

On an unrelated note, since I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread:
Schene was investigated previously for shooting two people - killing one - in the line of duty in 2002 and 2006. Both times his actions were found to be justified, Goodhew said.

Fishy. I wonder whether those incidents will be looked into again in light of this latest incident.

Princess Marzipan wrote:I...hate cops.

It's unfair to overgeneralize like that. He was a cop, yes, but there were several other groups he belongs to. Why not say "I hate Seattleites", or "I hate people whose names begin with 'S'"? There are plenty of non-psycho cops out there, doing an important job that I wouldn't want.

User avatar
Quixotess
No. Cookies.
Posts: 3243
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:26 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Quixotess » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:32 am UTC

Nath wrote:It's unfair to overgeneralize like that. He was a cop, yes, but there were several other groups he belongs to. Why not say "I hate Seattleites", or "I hate people whose names begin with 'S'"? There are plenty of non-psycho cops out there, doing an important job that I wouldn't want.

The two groups you name are not relevant to the circumstances that put this man in a position where he could commit aggravated assault upon a teenager with relative impunity.

I am too angry about this to respond to the original video.
Raise up the torch and light the way.

apeman5291
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby apeman5291 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:58 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:
Nath wrote:It's unfair to overgeneralize like that. He was a cop, yes, but there were several other groups he belongs to. Why not say "I hate Seattleites", or "I hate people whose names begin with 'S'"? There are plenty of non-psycho cops out there, doing an important job that I wouldn't want.

The two groups you name are not relevant to the circumstances that put this man in a position where he could commit aggravated assault upon a teenager with relative impunity.

I am too angry about this to respond to the original video.

In that situation then, "I hate that this man is a cop" would still be more appropriate.
What you don't understand, you can make mean anything.

User avatar
roc314
Is dead, and you have killed him
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:48 am UTC
Location: A bunker, here behind my wall
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby roc314 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:11 am UTC

Hippo: roc is the good little communist that lurks in us all
Richard Stallman: Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.
suffer-cait: roc's a pretty cool dude

User avatar
Quixotess
No. Cookies.
Posts: 3243
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:26 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Quixotess » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:22 am UTC

Indeed. Police brutality does not seem to be the result of a few bad eggs, but rather something that is endemic to and systemic in the way the police force is structured, from racism, to sexism, to transphobia, to classism, and everywhere in between. Every cop is part of the system that does not simply tolerate, but rather supports and encourages this kind of brutality.
Raise up the torch and light the way.

User avatar
william
Not a Raptor. Honest.
Posts: 2418
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:02 pm UTC
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby william » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:36 am UTC

Now how do you fix the damn thing?
SecondTalon wrote:A pile of shit can call itself a delicious pie, but that doesn't make it true.

apeman5291
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby apeman5291 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:10 am UTC

It's the same as "I hate black people because of all these black criminals."

"I hate the corrupt system that allows police brutality to go unpunished."
"I hate that police forces are so full of excessively violent cops."
"I hate the lack of responsibility that comes with the power to enforce laws."
All of these are fine to say, and very true, but "I hate cops" crosses the same line I crossed with the first sentence in this post.

There were 18,454 cases of police brutality filed in 2002 (obtained by extrapolating their numbers from 59% of officers to 100%, and taking out cases that were "not sustained" and "unfounded", i.e. only considering cases that went to trial). In 2006 (forgive me for leniancy of years, i can't find all the data in one year), there were 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the United States. Assuming one accusation per person, that brings us to 2.3%.

On the other hand, the US prison population last year was 2.3 million. In 2007, there were 227,719,000 people over 18 years old in the united states. This brings the total percentage of the country to 1%.

Admittedly, that's more than the national average. But that still means that 49/50 cops you meet on the street hasn't even had a legitimate charge filed against them. "I hate cops" is a bit of a leap.
What you don't understand, you can make mean anything.

User avatar
roc314
Is dead, and you have killed him
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:48 am UTC
Location: A bunker, here behind my wall
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby roc314 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:34 am UTC

apeman5291 wrote:It's the same as "I hate black people because of all these black criminals."
No, no it's not. It's not even close. It's the same as "I hate lobbyists, because they work to pass pork and other legislation I think is harmful", which is also not the same as "I hate black people".

Power corrupts and all that jazz. The position that police are in, the culture surrounding it, and type of people who are attracted to that kind of job all lead to a situation where there is a significantly larger portion of abuses than elsewhere.

It's not just the police who do abuse their power (and the only ones in that group that show up in your statistics are the ones that get caught and punished for it) that are the problem. It's also those higher up or at the same level in the system that work to cover up abuses, the enablers and accessories. They are also part of the problem.
Hippo: roc is the good little communist that lurks in us all
Richard Stallman: Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.
suffer-cait: roc's a pretty cool dude

User avatar
Malice
Posts: 3894
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Malice » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:05 am UTC

roc314 wrote:
apeman5291 wrote:It's the same as "I hate black people because of all these black criminals."
No, no it's not. It's not even close. It's the same as "I hate lobbyists, because they work to pass pork and other legislation I think is harmful", which is also not the same as "I hate black people".


Actually, it is. It may not carry the same emotional connotations as the racist statement but you're still judging the entire group by the actions of a few. Lobbyists also work to pass good, meaningful legislation. Some black people are also non-criminals. Some police officers are also non-criminals. Judging any group based on the actions of a few is a dumb thing to do.

Power corrupts and all that jazz. The position that police are in, the culture surrounding it, and type of people who are attracted to that kind of job all lead to a situation where there is a significantly larger portion of abuses than elsewhere.


I'm not so sure it does. If you go by those numbers, 2% of cops are corrupt enough to get to a trial. Considering 1% of people actually go to jail (not just to trial), that seems pretty reasonable to me. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But is it ass-backwards to suspect that 98% of cops are just hiding their corruption better? Yeah, I think it is. I think it's wrong to blame all cops for the relatively few bad ones.
Image

User avatar
Amarantha
Posts: 1638
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Amarantha » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:59 am UTC

Having seen the video on the news the other night, this article pissed me the fuck off when I saw it today. Firstly, because of the quote marks used in the headline, and secondly, because of the passive language used by the source they quoted:
"Two deputies are then seen storming into the cell. The girl ends up facing a wall next to the toilet. Schene is then seen apparently pulling the girl's hair as she falls to the ground, face first."
Goddamn newspapers are getting worse and worse.

User avatar
dobefan
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:30 am UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby dobefan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:33 am UTC

If you go by those numbers, 2% of cops are corrupt enough to get to a trial. Considering 1% of people actually go to jail (not just to trial), that seems pretty reasonable to me. Is it a problem?


Yes, when those enforcing the laws are twice as likely to be breaking them it is indeed an indication of a problem. Its not all that surprising, I mean I heard that the psychological profiles for cops and crooks are very similar. It seems, people who like to follow rules are kinda like sheep( I mean they follow) and sheep don't make good cops.

On the other hand it is a unbelievably high stress career in which many times one is forced to deal with situations they could not possibly be prepared for while simultaneously having their hands tied by needlessly extreme and ultimately ineffectual regulations. Don't believe me, ask a cop some time. They can't fire their weapon with out pages of reports. I remember reading a news article about how a police officer wasn't allowed to use his side arm to put a wounded and dieing deer out of its misery (as it was a danger to the motorists) and so he had to beat it to death, which I believe was less humane.

The regulations obviously look good on paper but in actuality the police that don't mind breaking the rules are the ones that get by with no problems while the ones that are seriously trying to "do the right thing" are constantly getting in trouble for telling the truth. Police have a ridiculously high suicide rate.

Similar to military, I try not to judge what police do sense I could never do their job. I have been screwed over by police, I watched a cop lie in court, but I have also been helped by them after a wreck.

That being said I haven't watched the video yet, and I don't plan to. I think it's obvious that this is another case of abuse of power caught on tape. The only thing I can say to answer that "how to stop this" question is to remember the scene in V for Vendetta where the police finally screw up and shoot a little girl. My only point is we have (as a society) stopped blaming those that repeatedly abuse others and instead blame the victims. We tell the beaten wives/girlfriends that they need to get out of the abusive relationships instead of going after the husband/boyfriends, and I guess until something very public happens to a very obvious abuser of power why should we expect them to change their very rational behavior. I mean rational to them, as the rules don't apply to them.

User avatar
Hawknc
Oompa Loompa of SCIENCE!
Posts: 6986
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Hawknc » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:41 am UTC

dobefan wrote:The only thing I can say to answer that "how to stop this" question is to remember the scene in V for Vendetta where the police finally screw up and shoot a little girl.
Uh, they've screwed up lots of times. See roc314's list. There are other factors in V for Vendetta, like society feeling repressed by an authority like the police, which aren't present in real life. (Also it's a movie.)

apeman5291
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby apeman5291 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:50 pm UTC

This
Malice wrote:It may not carry the same emotional connotations as the racist statement but you're still judging the entire group by the actions of a few. Lobbyists also work to pass good, meaningful legislation. Some black people are also non-criminals. Some police officers are also non-criminals. Judging any group based on the actions of a few is a dumb thing to do.
is my point. Fix the problem. Work as much as possible to deter police violence. But don't come down on the 784,000 police officers who have done nothing wrong.

This man, and cops like him, should receive punishment to the full extent of the law, and it's a problem that often times they don't. However, we're drawing our "epidemic" gun a little too quickly.
What you don't understand, you can make mean anything.

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:03 pm UTC

apeman5291 wrote:Fix the problem. Work as much as possible to deter police violence. But don't come down on the 784,000 police officers who have done nothing wrong.

This man, and cops like him, should receive punishment to the full extent of the law, and it's a problem that often times they don't. However, we're drawing our "epidemic" gun a little too quickly.

But the problem actually is kind of endemic to that group. With "black people are criminals," there's nothing inherent in the 'black system' that makes that more true. It's an issue with the setup of society as a whole that makes it okay to be tougher on black people charged with crimes. And...oh look, part of that problem is COPS.

The entire system is fucked. It's an environment where the reaction to a cop beating a 15 year old girl or shooting a restrained and harmless man in the back isn't "How can we prevent this from happening again," it's "How can we make this as little of an actual problem for us as we can?" Any time this happens it's sold to us as some loose cannon going off, something no one could have predicted. But this shit happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

Cops do not make me feel safe. Ever. They make me feel like I need to watch what I'm doing to make sure I don't piss one off and end up in a situation where my rights are forcibly taken from me, and no one listens when I point out that what is happening is wrong.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

Mzyxptlk
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:41 am UTC

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Mzyxptlk » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:42 pm UTC

apeman5291 wrote:There were 18,454 cases of police brutality filed in 2002 (obtained by extrapolating their numbers from 59% of officers to 100%, and taking out cases that were "not sustained" and "unfounded", i.e. only considering cases that went to trial). In 2006 (forgive me for leniancy of years, i can't find all the data in one year), there were 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the United States. Assuming one accusation per person, that brings us to 2.3%.

On the other hand, the US prison population last year was 2.3 million. In 2007, there were 227,719,000 people over 18 years old in the united states. This brings the total percentage of the country to 1%.

While I agree with your point (dont judge the many based on the actions of the few), you are misusing (or at least misrepresenting) statistics. 2.3% of police officers gets a reasonable case filed against them every year. If we assume the average police officer serves about 20 years and that only 1 in 3 cases result in a verdict against the police officer (both are total guesses, but I aimed low), that means 15% of all police officers commit police brutality at some point.

I am also not sure if you can compare the number of cases of police brutality filed on a yearly basis to the current total prison population, primarily because the prison population contains people locked up for a range of crimes, including ones of lower magnitude than assault (drug use, pissing in the park, theft, etc).
"Once upon a time, an infinite number of people lived perfect, blissful, eternal lives."

User avatar
natraj
Posts: 1895
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm UTC
Location: away from Omelas

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby natraj » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:04 pm UTC

Malice wrote:
roc314 wrote:
apeman5291 wrote:It's the same as "I hate black people because of all these black criminals."
No, no it's not. It's not even close. It's the same as "I hate lobbyists, because they work to pass pork and other legislation I think is harmful", which is also not the same as "I hate black people".


Actually, it is. It may not carry the same emotional connotations as the racist statement but you're still judging the entire group by the actions of a few. Lobbyists also work to pass good, meaningful legislation. Some black people are also non-criminals. Some police officers are also non-criminals. Judging any group based on the actions of a few is a dumb thing to do.


No, I think it is the same. I'm not judging the entire group by the actions of the few -- I'm judging the entire system, one that I hate. I hate cops. Not as individual people, but in their role as enforcers of a system of oppression. They chose to become part of that system.
You want to know the future, love? Then wait:
I'll answer your impatient questions. Still --
They'll call it chance, or luck, or call it Fate,
The cards and stars that tumble as they will.

pronouns: they or he

Paranoid__Android
Posts: 516
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:54 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Paranoid__Android » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:48 pm UTC

natraj wrote:
Malice wrote:
roc314 wrote:
apeman5291 wrote:It's the same as "I hate black people because of all these black criminals."
No, no it's not. It's not even close. It's the same as "I hate lobbyists, because they work to pass pork and other legislation I think is harmful", which is also not the same as "I hate black people".


Actually, it is. It may not carry the same emotional connotations as the racist statement but you're still judging the entire group by the actions of a few. Lobbyists also work to pass good, meaningful legislation. Some black people are also non-criminals. Some police officers are also non-criminals. Judging any group based on the actions of a few is a dumb thing to do.


No, I think it is the same. I'm not judging the entire group by the actions of the few -- I'm judging the entire system, one that I hate. I hate cops. Not as individual people, but in their role as enforcers of a system of oppression. They chose to become part of that system.


I think calling the Police force a "system of oppression" is a bit to far, I have never experienced this so called "oppression" that you speak of (at least not where I live).
You need to back up what you are saying rather than just make blanket statements.
The Great Hippo wrote:Paranoid__Android,
... truly, you are a champion among champions. ...

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

Paranoid__Android wrote:I think calling the Police force a "system of oppression" is a bit to far, I have never experienced this so called "oppression" that you speak of (at least not where I live). You need to back up what you are saying rather than just make blanket statements.

I, just a few screens up, wrote:The entire system is fucked. It's an environment where the reaction to a cop beating a 15 year old girl or shooting a restrained and harmless man in the back isn't "How can we prevent this from happening again," it's "How can we make this as little of an actual problem for us as we can?" Any time this happens it's sold to us as some loose cannon going off, something no one could have predicted. But this shit happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Video Shows Sheriff's Deputy's Alleged Assault on Girl, 15

Postby Belial » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

natraj wrote:No, I think it is the same. I'm not judging the entire group by the actions of the few -- I'm judging the entire system, one that I hate. I hate cops. Not as individual people, but in their role as enforcers of a system of oppression. They chose to become part of that system.


Yeah, that would be the main difference. It's not like you choose your race. Or apply for it. Or show up for it every day.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests