No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

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No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Xeio » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:23 pm UTC

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23292/

Well, this just disproves one method perhaps, but the future is going to be really boring if we keep making discoveries like this. I guess this just means that traveling between star systems will take longer than we could hope (though, if we manage to get going fast enough, it'll seem 'quick' for those on board).

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Indon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

I dunno if it disproves anything. If anything, it makes the warp drive more like its' fictional presence - practically every third episode of Next Generation has the warp drive threatening to explode, after all.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Bright Shadows » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:34 pm UTC

In addition, the warp was supposed to cause problems in the areas you used it in, according to one Star Trek interpretation. I remember a specific episode about it. They really weren't stable in that series either, though enough so for regular use, I suppose.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby JBJ » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:42 pm UTC

Bright Shadows wrote:In addition, the warp was supposed to cause problems in the areas you used it in, according to one Star Trek interpretation. I remember a specific episode about it. They really weren't stable in that series either, though enough so for regular use, I suppose.

I remember that episode. Some guy who lost the election for President of the Federation made a big stink about it. Alderran Regor I think his name was, something about galactic warming.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Bright Shadows » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:00 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
Bright Shadows wrote:In addition, the warp was supposed to cause problems in the areas you used it in, according to one Star Trek interpretation. I remember a specific episode about it. They really weren't stable in that series either, though enough so for regular use, I suppose.

I remember that episode. Some guy who lost the election for President of the Federation made a big stink about it. Alderran Regor I think his name was, something about galactic warming.

Yeah, not too subtle. Oh well. Anyway, it made a wormhole, I think, so it wasn't QUITE that direct.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Vieto » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:39 pm UTC

All this proves is that warp drives would be difficult to make, not impossible.

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby frezik » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:44 pm UTC

Let's settle on a way to get off the planet for less than $1 per kg, then worry about ftl.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby SummerGlauFan » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:51 pm UTC

frezik wrote:Let's settle on a way to get off the planet for less than $1 per kg, then worry about ftl.


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Actually, isn't there some particle (tachyons I think) that theoretically it's minimum possible speed would be lightspeed? Meaning it can go faster?
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Habz » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:58 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:Some guy who lost the election for President of the Federation made a big stink about it. Alderran Regor I think his name was, something about galactic warming.


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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Indon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:55 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Fairies? The Office Max Easy Button?

Redefine the kilogram!
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:
frezik wrote:Let's settle on a way to get off the planet for less than $1 per kg, then worry about ftl.


Fairies? The Office Max Easy Button?

Actually, isn't there some particle (tachyons I think) that theoretically it's minimum possible speed would be lightspeed? Meaning it can go faster?


Yeah, supposedly tachyons require energy to slow down and it would take an infinite amount to slow one to lightspeed.

Anyhow here is a helpful link that lists other links to various ftl ideas. http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3v.html

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby The Reaper » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:56 pm UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:
frezik wrote:Let's settle on a way to get off the planet for less than $1 per kg, then worry about ftl.


Fairies? The Office Max Easy Button?

Actually, isn't there some particle (tachyons I think) that theoretically it's minimum possible speed would be lightspeed? Meaning it can go faster?


Yeah, supposedly tachyons require energy to slow down and it would take an infinite amount to slow one to lightspeed.

Anyhow here is a helpful link that lists other links to various ftl ideas. http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3v.html

So we slow down a tachyon to light speed and accelerate normal mass to light speed, then let them go their normal ways when we're done?

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Diadem » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:25 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Actually, isn't there some particle (tachyons I think) that theoretically it's minimum possible speed would be lightspeed? Meaning it can go faster?

Tachyons are purely theoretical. They are interesting toy particles to play with in exercises on relativity. Useful for learning the concepts.

But they do not actually exist. Sorry.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Jesse » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:38 am UTC

Then what is it they're detecting deep underground? Is that muons?

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Sockmonkey » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:48 am UTC

IIRC neutrinos.

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Kizor » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:51 pm UTC

Eh. Wait ten years and they'll discover something that'll make warp drives theoretically feasible again.

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby CivilDefense700 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

One word,
Wormholes

or stargates, definitely stargates
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby scikidus » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:17 am UTC

CivilDefense700 wrote:One word,
Wormholes

or stargates, definitely stargates
Or, you know, this guy.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Cryopyre » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:16 am UTC

Firstly, the Alcubierre Metric has larger design flaws than that.
Secondly, isn't it a cardinal sin to mix relativity and quantum mechanics right now?
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby The Reaper » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

Well, I suppose since light can be used to make gravity, we should just throw a tokamak reactor on a space ship and make a gravity well drive. We wont get faster than c, but we'll be able to get close to it after awhile. :D hehe.

I thought mixing quantum mechanics and anything, much less relativity, was against the will of god and whatnot.

Hmm.

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Vaniver » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

FTL is impossible. Get over it.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby SummerGlauFan » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:10 am UTC

Yeah. And before cars, everyone knew that human beings would fly apart if they went more than 40 mph. Didn't make it true, though.

The cool thing about the universe is you'll always be able to discover new things. Trying to claim we know everything about how everythign works is laughable.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Vieto » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:11 am UTC

see: newtonian physics

It works, even well enough for Nasa, but it isn't completely accurate about everything (lacks relativity, and the speed of light limit)

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Vaniver » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:37 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Yeah. And before cars, everyone knew that human beings would fly apart if they went more than 40 mph. Didn't make it true, though.

The cool thing about the universe is you'll always be able to discover new things. Trying to claim we know everything about how everythign works is laughable.
See, the thing is, this isn't "it could be but we don't know how," it's "we know we can't." It's in the same category as not being able to get energy from nothing and not being able to reach absolute 0. It could be possible- but the odds for it are the same as the odds for perpetual motion machines.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Maseiken » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:14 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:Yeah. And before cars, everyone knew that human beings would fly apart if they went more than 40 mph. Didn't make it true, though.

The cool thing about the universe is you'll always be able to discover new things. Trying to claim we know everything about how everythign works is laughable.
See, the thing is, this isn't "it could be but we don't know how," it's "we know we can't." It's in the same category as not being able to get energy from nothing and not being able to reach absolute 0. It could be possible- but the odds for it are the same as the odds for perpetual motion machines.

...And we don't actually have any idea what those odds are.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:59 pm UTC

Not to split hairs, but I think this just puts a top speed on the drive. These guys say "You can't grow space superluminally," but what if you grew your space bubble at .9c and traveled within your space bubble at .9c. Your speed relative to Earth would be 1.8c.

And if you nest your space bubbles, you can grow 100 nested bubbles at .1c each, right?

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Vieto » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:18 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Not to split hairs, but I think this just puts a top speed on the drive. These guys say "You can't grow space superluminally," but what if you grew your space bubble at .9c and traveled within your space bubble at .9c. Your speed relative to Earth would be 1.8c.

And if you nest your space bubbles, you can grow 100 nested bubbles at .1c each, right?


I was just thinking that.

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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:40 am UTC

Vieto wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:Not to split hairs, but I think this just puts a top speed on the drive. These guys say "You can't grow space superluminally," but what if you grew your space bubble at .9c and traveled within your space bubble at .9c. Your speed relative to Earth would be 1.8c.

And if you nest your space bubbles, you can grow 100 nested bubbles at .1c each, right?


I was just thinking that.


Speeds don't add together like that when your talking about fractions of C. If your on a train going .9c and drive a golf cart that goes .9c relative to the floor of the train, your still going at a total of less then c to an outside observer.
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby Indon » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:55 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Speeds don't add together like that when your talking about fractions of C. If your on a train going .9c and drive a golf cart that goes .9c relative to the floor of the train, your still going at a total of less then c to an outside observer.


I thought that a 'warp drive' was supposed to change that by force-dilating spacetime somehow?
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Re: No Warp Drive, Millions of Scifi Nerds Weep

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:47 am UTC

The way I interpreted it was sort of pulling the destination toward you at near C while you move toward it at near C. Except insert quantum magic here so as to not actually move the destination.
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