Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

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Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:35 am UTC

Time
CNN
ABC News w/ Video
Time article wrote:Rifqa Bary, a 17-year-old girl from Columbus, Ohio, who ran away to an Evangelical church in Orlando, Fla., because, she claims, her Sri Lankan Muslim family has threatened to kill her for recently converting to Christianity.
The saga began in mid-July when Rifqa, after a dispute with her parents, bolted from her home and rode a bus to Orlando. There she took refuge with the Rev. Blake Lorenz, the pastor of a conservative Christian congregation, the Global Revolution Church, and his wife Beverly, whom the cheerleader and honor student had met on Facebook. Almost three weeks later, on Aug. 6, the Lorenzes finally let authorities and Rifqa's frantic parents know the girl was with them. Then, a few days later, Rifqa dropped a bombshell to an Orlando television station: she had run away, she claimed, because her family, angry about her conversion to Christianity, had "threatened to kill me."
...
Columbus police tell TIME they're watching the case closely and are in contact with the courts and social-services agencies in Ohio and Florida; so far they have found no evidence or other information to support Rifqa's accusation. Craig McCarthy, one of two Orlando attorneys appointed to represent the Barys in Florida, says that while they may have been dismayed at first by Rifqa's conversion, as devout parents of any faith would be, they are hardly the kind of fundamentalist Muslims who would declare a medieval fatwa, or death sentence, on their daughter. "There is a vast, vast difference between not being pleased that your child has not chosen your faith and wanting to kill your child," says McCarthy. "This is a family with Westernized kids. Their daughter is a cheerleader."
...
If Rifqa's claims are indeed false, that raises the question of whether she may have been prodded by her new friends at Global Revolution Church to make the death-threat accusations, and whether she was somehow lured to Orlando by the Lorenzes via the Internet. The couple, who could not be reached for comment, have denied it to the media. But Beverly Lorenz has acknowledged that she talked by phone with Rifqa before the girl ran away. Blake Lorenz, who insists that Rifqa will be killed if she goes home, earlier this month made clear to reporters his Crusades-era belief that this is part of Christianity's holy struggle against Islam: "These are the last days; these are the end times," he said, "and this conflict between Islam and Christianity is going to grow greater. This conflict between good and evil is going to grow greater."

This case is going to make my head explode. One, I can't see how the Lorenzes aren't in any trouble for taking close to three weeks to notify the authorities or her family. Two, I don't see how the Florida Dept. of Children and Families can justify keeping her here. I'm not saying just give her back to the family no questions asked, but even the family is willing to have her be in an Ohio foster home until it gets settled. I don't see how any Florida agency can possibly investigate claims of abuse or threats in another state. Finally, if it turns out that the Lorenzes encouraged her to run away, bought her bus ticket, or have coached her statements, I will lose my shit.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby The Reaper » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:45 am UTC

Florida, 'nuff said. lawl.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Kizyr » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:48 am UTC

Just the bare facts of the story sound like some element of coercion and/or brainwashing is going on...

And they get a lawyer with Florida Family Policy Council, and the adult who helped her run away believes in an impending religious war. Yeah, this won't end well.

Also, due to the allegations being spread by that lawyer, it's a certain bet that the mosque in question is now receiving hate mail and bomb threats. KF
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Walter.Horvath » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:15 am UTC

So many Islamist-related things happening here.

Anyway, who's up for a game of scrabble later?

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Velict » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:05 am UTC

My heart goes out to the girl, but the reverend's ravings about good and evil are somewhat disturbing. We don't have much information here, but I have to agree with TIME that it seems conceivable that Lorenz has influenced the girl in some way. Teenagers aren't the most mature section of the populace, and I'm sure a charismatic minister could go a long way towards manipulating someone else.

On a side note, isn't it kind of sad that the TIME article actually included the speculation and statements like "Crusades-era beliefs"? I don't disagree with the validity of it, but I think it's bad journalism to instill beliefs and values like that.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Aetius » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:06 am UTC

I love when Christianity and Islam clash. They're both effectively holding up a mirror to the other and the infinite reflection that results explodes heads.

Anyway, all this girl needed to do was yell "sanctuary!" in an exaggerated British accent and everything would have been above board.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Xeio » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:17 am UTC

Um, yea, calling Islam evil and thinking that an impending religious war is coming... I hope they get her out of that environment fast. I do hope her parents didn't actually threaten her life, but I don't think she should be staying with these people (3 weeks to report where she was to her parents? Isn't that practically kidnapping?). Child services might want to get involved, obviously, but unless it's reasonable to think the parents pose a danger to her I don't see why she shouldn't be returned to their care.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Kizyr » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:27 am UTC

Xeio wrote:Um, yea, calling Islam evil and thinking that an impending religious war is coming... I hope they get her out of that environment fast. I do hope her parents didn't actually threaten her life, but I don't think she should be staying with these people (3 weeks to report where she was to her parents? Isn't that practically kidnapping?). Child services might want to get involved, obviously, but unless it's reasonable to think the parents pose a danger to her I don't see why she shouldn't be returned to their care.

Given that there's probably an element of coercion here, yeah, it sounds like kidnapping. I hope that after this is sorted out (if it's sorted out) that the parents can file charges against the Lorenzes.

My relatives in Columbus apparently know the parents in question. They're... not even very religious* (though this is already obvious by being fine with their daughter being a cheerleader). The part about threating to kill their daughter smacks of bullshit--that the person claiming it is a wingnut expecting an impending religious war doesn't really make the claim any more credible.

And now the mosque is going through more trouble because the dipshit lawyer is alleging terrorist connections where none exist. 'Cause, well, being accused is apparently enough evidence in and of itself. KF

* I should still note that I don't like the implication that being religious implies you'd be so insane as to kill your kids, which is a nasty undercurrent of this entire issue.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Angua » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:59 am UTC

The thing that worries me about this is that she went all the way to Florida. It's not like she couldn't find somewhere Christian to live in Ohio and it's a very long way to go without something suspicious going on. I feel very sorry for the parents in question, and hope that this is straightened out soon (though on one level a teenage wanting to convert to Christianity makes some sense if she's in a very Christian environment and so wants to fit in but with the people she moved in with it sounds a bit extreme).
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby scrovak » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:15 pm UTC

Aetius wrote:I love when Christianity and Islam clash.


Who's up for another crusade?!
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:29 pm UTC

Orlando Sentinel
Looks like this is on hold until Sept. 29. The Florida judge has sealed the investigation's findings, placed a gag order on the attorneys, and set the next hearing.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement was tasked with investigating the alleged threats, but what the state agency found will remain under a court-ordered seal.

But a brief courtroom statement from Roger Weeden, the lawyer representing Rifqa's mother, gives some insight. He said there was "a favorable report from FDLE" (ed. note - Florida Department of Law Enforcement) that says there's no threat to Rifqa, should she be returned to her home.

Before he could finish, however, Weeden was cut off by Rifqa's appointed Guardian ad Litem, Krista Bartholomew, who reminded the court that the document was under seal.
...
Mohamed Bary has denied making any threats against his daughter, and Ohio authorities have already concluded it is safe for her to return.
...
The lawyers also discussed who is allowed to visit Rifqa. Dawson said he will allow the three young adult children of Blake and Beverly Lorenz to visit with Rifqa.
...
In Columbus, Franklin County Prosecuting Attorney Ron O'Brien wrote a letter Wednesday, saying law enforcement officials there are capable of protecting children and will take action to protect Rifqa, if necessary.

This afternoon, Dawson said the next hearing date in Rifqa's case for Sept. 29.
What part of "Let the Ohio authorities handle it" does this judge not understand?
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Kizyr » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:05 pm UTC

Angua wrote:(though on one level a teenage wanting to convert to Christianity makes some sense if she's in a very Christian environment and so wants to fit in but with the people she moved in with it sounds a bit extreme).

If this is the case, then it's likely related to the cheerleaders she joined. It really could be anything, but at this point the reasons are kind of irrelevant.

The longer this entire thing goes on, by the way, the more the extreme Christian groups there are going to be stepping up their hatred and harassment of Muslims. That the two Florida politicians mentioned in the TIME article are pandering to the same groups, rather than considering that what the Lorenzes did is equivalent to kidnapping, is just as disheartening. KF
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Cynical Idealist » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:44 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:Florida, 'nuff said. lawl.

Image There's a reason its the only state with its own fark tag.

Kizyr wrote:I should still note that I don't like the implication that being religious implies you'd be so insane as to kill your kids, which is a nasty undercurrent of this entire issue.


Or possibly being so insane as to convince another family's child that they were going to be killed by their parents. I'm somewhat suspicious of the Lorenzes role in this thing.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Diadem » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:55 am UTC

Before we all climb into the curtains over this case, I'd like to remind you all that this girl is 17. Almost adult. 17 year old should be allowed to run away from home. They should be mature enough to decide where they want to live.

That being said. This seems a rather obvious case of two groups of religious nutcases fighting it out at the expense of an innocent girl.

But I still think a 17 year old should be old enough to decide for herself which group of nutcases she wants to belong to.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:16 am UTC

:roll: Not this again.
Almost adult
So what's the minimum age for someone to runaway? 17? 16? 15? 14 too young? How about 14 and a half? 14 and 9 months?
Don't bring age of majority into it. There are a bunch of other threads for that. She is still under 18, therefore still a minor.
Or were you just trolling?
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Diadem » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:33 am UTC

Just because you're a minor does not mean you don't have rights. Specifically, in this case: No judge is going to force a 17 year old that does not want to live with her parents to go back home.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:46 am UTC

Diadem wrote:But I still think a 17 year old should be old enough to decide for herself which group of nutcases she wants to belong to.
Kizyr wrote:* I should still note that I don't like the implication that being religious implies you'd be so insane as to kill your kids, which is a nasty undercurrent of this entire issue.


Also, why the fuck is Time equating "fatwã" with "death sentence"?
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:50 am UTC

Ah... so you are trolling. Because as you said it's for this specific case.
If you were arguing that the age of majority would be 17, I might have listened to your argument, but all I hear is bzzzzzzzz.... bzzzzzzzzz....
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby kapojinha » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:50 am UTC

A 17 year old girl ran away from home and traveled about 900 miles to meet up with someone she'd met on Facebook..? :shock: That is.. wow.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby MoghLiechty2 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:29 am UTC

JBJ wrote:bzzzzzzzz.... bzzzzzzzzz....

Arrrgghghhh! Make it stop!

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Vaniver » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:01 pm UTC

Side note: the thing the girl / Christians are worried about happens with disturbing frequency in other countries. I find it rather unlikely that it would happen in the US (more often than not, the similarities between believers of the same faith in different countries match pretty well to the differences between those countries), and so like Kizyr I find the potential backlash worrying.

As for the actual legal issue, it looks like they should have tried to go through with emancipation paperwork rather than just having the girl flee the state. I'm unfamiliar with the emancipation process (it seems likely that you would have to prove that you have a good reason to be separated from your parents, not just that you want to), so that might have been considered and discarded. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the church wanted this to become a public legal battle, to fling the accusation into the public space.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby kapojinha » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:15 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I'm unfamiliar with the emancipation process (it seems likely that you would have to prove that you have a good reason to be separated from your parents, not just that you want to), so that might have been considered and discarded. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the church wanted this to become a public legal battle, to fling the accusation into the public space.


There are 3 ways a child can become emancipated:

- get married
- join the military, or
- go to court and have the judge declare you emancipated ("judicial declaration").


For the first two, you need your parents' permission.
To qualify for the third:
- You must be 14 years old, or older.
- You must be willing to live apart from your parents with their consent
- You must be managing your own financial affairs.
- Your income must be from a legal source.
- Emancipation must be in your best interests.
- You should be in school. (The emancipation law does not require that you be in school, but compulsory education laws do. The judge usually wants to see that you are either in school, have already graduated, or have earned a GED).
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Kizyr » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:25 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:Or possibly being so insane as to convince another family's child that they were going to be killed by their parents. I'm somewhat suspicious of the Lorenzes role in this thing.

True, I only wanted to clarify that, since I don't like the implication itself (additionally since, by extension, such a faulty generalization would also apply to me).

Diadem wrote:That being said. This seems a rather obvious case of two groups of religious nutcases fighting it out at the expense of an innocent girl.
But I still think a 17 year old should be old enough to decide for herself which group of nutcases she wants to belong to.

There's only one group of "religious nutcases" here: the Lorenzes and the people supporting them. The parents of the girl in question aren't even very religious.

If they were actually threatening to kill her, your statement might be accurate. But thus far, the only evidence we have for that is the word-of-mouth of an adult who convinced a minor to cross state lines to live with her, and who believes in an impending religious war.

Vaniver wrote:Side note: the thing the girl / Christians are worried about happens with disturbing frequency in other countries. I find it rather unlikely that it would happen in the US (more often than not, the similarities between believers of the same faith in different countries match pretty well to the differences between those countries), and so like Kizyr I find the potential backlash worrying.

The backlash isn't just potential; it started once this issue made headlines. KF
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:43 pm UTC

scrovak wrote:
Aetius wrote:I love when Christianity and Islam clash.


Who's up for another crusade?!

No, you Muslims and Christians have to have this one somewhere other than our home. Every time we let you come over for a Crusade you trash the place.

The important thing is: what does this girl want for her own life?
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby SummerGlauFan » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:21 pm UTC

Hmm, a 17-year-old girl leaves home and moves in with some people she met online. Yes, that's never happened before.

I find it just a tad interesting that a lot of people would have no problem what-so-ever if religion was not involved, but throw a fit because one of the girl's motivations was religious.

Having said that, if the family she is now with did convince her her folks were going to kill her, yeah, that's messed up, but not really criminal at all.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Diadem » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:32 am UTC

JBJ wrote:Ah... so you are trolling. Because as you said it's for this specific case.
If you were arguing that the age of majority would be 17, I might have listened to your argument, but all I hear is bzzzzzzzz.... bzzzzzzzzz....

Yeah, because talking about the specifics of the case that the topic is about is clearly trolling.

Again: She is 17. Not legally adult, but certainly old enough to move out, and live on your own. Plenty of 17 year olds do this. Usually with consent of their parents, of course. But if you run away at 17 no judge is going to force you to go back to your parents. Nor will you be put in foster care. Normally you'll become an emancipated minor.

But why am I even responding to you. You're the one trolling.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Heavenlytoaster » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:40 am UTC

What!? You dont think the law is a concrete unchangeable thing to be enforced identically in all cases? You troll you.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:01 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Again: She is 17. Not legally adult, but certainly old enough to move out, and live on your own. Plenty of 17 year olds do this. Usually with consent of their parents, of course. But if you run away at 17 no judge is going to force you to go back to your parents. Nor will you be put in foster care. Normally you'll become an emancipated minor.

Oh, excuse me. Plenty of 17 year olds do it all the time, so therefore it must be right.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Diadem » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:22 am UTC

Heavenlytoaster wrote:What!? You dont think the law is a concrete unchangeable thing to be enforced identically in all cases? You troll you.

Wait, what? Of course equal cases should be treated equally. But how is that even remotely relevant?

JBJ wrote:
Diadem wrote:Again: She is 17. Not legally adult, but certainly old enough to move out, and live on your own. Plenty of 17 year olds do this. Usually with consent of their parents, of course. But if you run away at 17 no judge is going to force you to go back to your parents. Nor will you be put in foster care. Normally you'll become an emancipated minor.

Oh, excuse me. Plenty of 17 year olds do it all the time, so therefore it must be right.
Excuse me, someone just jumped off a bridge. I've got to go do that too.

Funny thing about humans: They are not computers. When they tell eachother things, they do not spell out every single bit of information, but instead leave out things that are clear from the context. For example in a sentence such as "People do X all the time" the implied context is "And they turn out perfectly alright".
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:51 am UTC

I called you a troll for this reason:
Diadem wrote:17 year old should be allowed to run away from home.
Not because you may think that a 17 year old is capable of living on her own. Do you have any idea how much grief a parent goes through when a child runs away? Even at 17? I hope you don't, and I feel for any parent that ever had a child run away.

My problem with arguments against the age of majority is that it is there for a reason. A good portion of teenagers are physically, psychologically, and emotionally mature enough to live on their own, usually around age 15 or 16. Definitely by 17, and legally by 18. The thing is teenagers do stupid things. Having the age of majority offers a buffer zone of 2-3 years where teenagers are given the opportunity to act independently, but are not permanently penalized if they do something stupid. I know, I did something quite stupid at 17. I got in trouble, paid my dues, and learned my lesson. If I had done the same thing 8 months later, it would have impacted my adult life. Forever.

So before you go saying that a 17 year should be "allowed to run away" think about what you're saying.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby MoghLiechty2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:28 am UTC

I went ahead and listened to an online sermon by this pastor of the Global Revolution Church. I couldn't really find anything blatantly wrong with it, except that the pastor was being annoyingly preachy and made more claims that were just his own opinions (opinions that I'm a bit skeptical of) than I would've liked.

If this whole thing turns out that the girl didn't really have good reason to run away and there was indecent coercion by the pastor or his wife to get away her from her Muslim family because they think Muslims are bad or something, I will be thoroughly annoyed.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:03 am UTC

JBJ wrote:
Diadem wrote:Again: She is 17. Not legally adult, but certainly old enough to move out, and live on your own. Plenty of 17 year olds do this. Usually with consent of their parents, of course. But if you run away at 17 no judge is going to force you to go back to your parents. Nor will you be put in foster care. Normally you'll become an emancipated minor.

Oh, excuse me. Plenty of 17 year olds do it all the time, so therefore it must be right.
Excuse me, someone just jumped off a bridge. I've got to go do that too.

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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Freakish » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:35 am UTC

JBJ wrote:I called you a troll for this reason:
Diadem wrote:17 year old should be allowed to run away from home.
Not because you may think that a 17 year old is capable of living on her own. Do you have any idea how much grief a parent goes through when a child runs away? Even at 17? I hope you don't, and I feel for any parent that ever had a child run away.


That's why you think he's a troll? I can't stand troll being used as an ad hominem. A troll is someone that follows you around or tries to get emotions going, not someone that you disagree with. If anyone could point out his trollish behavior I'll apologize for this accusation, but right now I just see childish hostility.

A line had to be drawn, it ended up being 18. This doesn't mean that only 18+ year olds are mature and this is why we have courts. So that we can look at this 17 year old girl and say "Maybe she's mature enough to be on her own, maybe we don't need to force her to live somewhere she doesn't want to".
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Kizyr » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:27 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:I find it just a tad interesting that a lot of people would have no problem what-so-ever if religion was not involved, but throw a fit because one of the girl's motivations was religious.
Having said that, if the family she is now with did convince her her folks were going to kill her, yeah, that's messed up, but not really criminal at all.

Really? I see it the opposite way. I figure most people would see the obvious problem with this if religion weren't involved (because, as I mentioned in my first post, the bare facts of this case are troubling). Religion being involved is what seems like it's biasing people, particularly those who are antagonistic towards religion in the first place.

aleflamedyud wrote:No, you Muslims and Christians have to have this one somewhere other than our home. Every time we let you come over for a Crusade you trash the place.

Ok, this comment wins the thread. KF
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby JBJ » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:06 pm UTC

Freakish wrote:
JBJ wrote:I called you a troll for this reason:
Diadem wrote:17 year old should be allowed to run away from home.
Not because you may think that a 17 year old is capable of living on her own. Do you have any idea how much grief a parent goes through when a child runs away? Even at 17? I hope you don't, and I feel for any parent that ever had a child run away.


That's why you think he's a troll? I can't stand troll being used as an ad hominem. A troll is someone that follows you around or tries to get emotions going, not someone that you disagree with. If anyone could point out his trollish behavior I'll apologize for this accusation, but right now I just see childish hostility.

A line had to be drawn, it ended up being 18. This doesn't mean that only 18+ year olds are mature and this is why we have courts. So that we can look at this 17 year old girl and say "Maybe she's mature enough to be on her own, maybe we don't need to force her to live somewhere she doesn't want to".

That this girl's case needs to be evaluated individually, I agree. I don't agree that Florida should be the state handling it.

Regarding the troll label, if it's the wrong word, I apologize. Making a generalization that running away from home is alright does get me worked up. It strikes me as a very shortsighted and immature statement because it doesn't consider the emotional turmoil that a parent goes through when they don't know where their child is. Even grown adults who leave home and don't keep in touch cause their parents distress.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby Lord Aurora » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:57 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:No, you Muslims and Christians have to have this one somewhere other than our home. Every time we let you come over for a Crusade you trash the place.
Dad gave you the house, that doesn't mean you can keep us out. It's as much ours as it is yours.
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:33 pm UTC

Lord Aurora wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:No, you Muslims and Christians have to have this one somewhere other than our home. Every time we let you come over for a Crusade you trash the place.
Dad gave you the house, that doesn't mean you can keep us out. It's as much ours as it is yours.

Fuck you. You fucking tear shit up every time you visit, and you never even bother to bring a bottle! Seriously, what kind of douchebag comes to someone else's house, throws a party, destroys the furniture, leaves unknown bodily secretions on the stairs, and can't even be bothered to bring drinks?
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Re: Muslim Teen Converts to Christianity; Runs away

Postby The Reaper » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:30 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
Lord Aurora wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:No, you Muslims and Christians have to have this one somewhere other than our home. Every time we let you come over for a Crusade you trash the place.
Dad gave you the house, that doesn't mean you can keep us out. It's as much ours as it is yours.

Fuck you. You fucking tear shit up every time you visit, and you never even bother to bring a bottle! Seriously, what kind of douchebag comes to someone else's house, throws a party, destroys the furniture, leaves unknown bodily secretions on the stairs, and can't even be bothered to bring drinks?

A human one?


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