Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

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Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Telchar » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:39 am UTC

http://gawker.com/5369615/enter-the-rape-tunnel-for-art

I've constructed a 22 ft tunnel out of plywood that leads into the project room. There is no way in or out of the project room except for this tunnel. As you travel through the tunnel, it gets smaller and smaller, making it so that you have to crawl and put yourself in a submissive position in order to reach the tunnel's destination. At the end of the tunnel the subject will find me waiting in the project room and I'll try to the best of my ability to overpower and rape the person who crawls through.


It's....so terrible. It's gotta be a hoax right?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:45 am UTC

I......am utterly speachless.

That this even seems a little realistic is.......

............

........

I need time to comprehend this.

EDIT: THough that appears to be a joke site.....thank God
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:50 am UTC

Gawker is an exceedingly wishy-washy news site.

Seems like a satire of modern art exhibitions where they do stuff like starve a dog etc. Meh, it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. This hypothetical guy's eye is pretty screwed up though.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Philwelch » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:51 am UTC

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2009/09/about_that_rape_tunnel_did_art.php

This is obviously a joke in very bad taste:

I had my first breakthrough with an installation that was to be the prototype for this current one. It was called THE PUNCH-YOU-IN-THE-FACE TUNNEL. It was the same set-up as THE RAPE TUNNEL except at the end of the tunnel I'd punch the subject in the face instead of raping him or her. The impetus was completely reactionary to the current state of art, and motivated by pure frustration.

As it turns out, I ended up breaking the nose of the third person to crawl through the tunnel, an aspiring model. She went to the hospital and eventually sued me. Her modeling career was put on hold. The civil case was long and drawn out and the matter still hasn't been resolved. To this day she still has unpaid medical bills. The point of this long aside is that all this took place two years ago, and I'm still having an impact on this young lady's life, something not many other artists could claim about their work.

Rape seemed like the next logical step.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby diotimajsh » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:58 am UTC

Bah, ninja-ed by Philwelch. I just found that article, and indeed, seems none of the art galleries mentioned exist, and the picture of the tunnel was taken from a wind tunnel elsewhere. Also, I noted that searching for the supposed precursor -- the "PUNCH-YOU-IN-THE-FACE-TUNNEL" only seems to turn up results about this ostensible rape tunnel, which seems odd to me. Especially if there really was a lawsuit about it, that definitely should have made some kind of news somewhere.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Malice » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:00 am UTC

As a thought piece, I kind of like it. The backstory introduces the question: if you go into the rape tunnel, is it your fault if you get raped? It's an examination of victim-blaming in our society.

(The above is only half tongue-in-cheek. But which half?)
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Hazel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:32 am UTC

The article's being horribly flippant about the whole rape aspect of it.

The Gawker, in general response, wrote:We are totally taking a field trip.

The Gawker wrote:So this could all be hoax! Be warned, before you get all enthusiastic for the Rape Tunnel.

Even if they're being funny, it's really not.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Zorlin » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:34 am UTC

Malice wrote:As a thought piece, I kind of like it. The backstory introduces the question: if you go into the rape tunnel, is it your fault if you get raped? It's an examination of victim-blaming in our society.

(The above is only half tongue-in-cheek. But which half?)

The half with the squidgy holes.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby The Reaper » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:35 am UTC

High Art: Ensuring that in the future, when the cities burn, nothing of value will be lost.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Hawknc » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:02 am UTC

The site linked in that article has been suspended, it seems. I can't imagine why.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:20 pm UTC

Up next: the sub-zero rapecoaster!
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby The Reaper » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:23 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:Up next: the sub-zero rapecoaster!

http://rapecoaster.ytmnd.com/

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby the_bandersnatch » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:17 pm UTC

Obvious hoax is obvious.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Philwelch » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:35 pm UTC

Old meme is old.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby The Reaper » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:12 pm UTC

Philwelch wrote:Old meme is old.
NO U

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Zorlin » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:32 pm UTC

*checks the URL*

I could swear this was echochamber.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

so if you choose to go through the tunnel, you choose to be raped, and therefore its not rape...


*HEAD ASPLODE*
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Soralin » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:23 am UTC

segmentation fault wrote:so if you choose to go through the tunnel, you choose to be raped, and therefore its not rape...


*HEAD ASPLODE*

No, head exploding is the next tunnel over.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:50 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:so if you choose to go through the tunnel, you choose to be raped, and therefore its not rape...


*HEAD ASPLODE*

That only works out if you have a safeword.

Excuse me, did these pieces once form your head?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Prefanity » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

As a quick pedantical aside, I'm not sure this piece (whether real or hoax) can be considered modern art.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby SummerGlauFan » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:05 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
segmentation fault wrote:so if you choose to go through the tunnel, you choose to be raped, and therefore its not rape...


*HEAD ASPLODE*

That only works out if you have a safeword.

Excuse me, did these pieces once form your head?


It once was, but now it's art!
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Internetmeme » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:40 pm UTC

Malice wrote:As a thought piece, I kind of like it. The backstory introduces the question: if you go into the rape tunnel, is it your fault if you get raped? It's an examination of victim-blaming in our society.

(The above is only half tongue-in-cheek. But which half?)


That is a very interesting question, even if tongue-in-cheek.

If you entered the tunnel and you knew for a fact that you would get raped, is it still the other guy's fault?

It would probably be like scratching open a painful wound on a rapid dog that has a history of attacking people. Most people would say that it's your fault when you got mauled.

What an interesting moral question!
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby MrGee » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:55 pm UTC

This happens all the time. Except they don't call it rape, they call it BDSM.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby podbaydoor » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:56 pm UTC

If you entered the tunnel and you knew for a fact that you would get raped, is it still the other guy's fault?

The definition of rape is that it's unwanted. There's also a simple solution to the rape-tunnel piece re: consent and fault. The artist can simply...not rape anyone in the tunnel.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Aetius » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:22 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
If you entered the tunnel and you knew for a fact that you would get raped, is it still the other guy's fault?

The definition of rape is that it's unwanted. There's also a simple solution to the rape-tunnel piece re: consent and fault. The artist can simply...not rape anyone in the tunnel.


I think it's addressing fault and blame in a third party context. Obviously between the victim and the perpetrator it's always the perpetrator's fault, but between the victim and a third party, to what degree can we treat the perpetrator's actions as a given, and what responsibility do we bear for our choices when we know or can assume the actions of another? An example that jumps to mind is the sanctions on Iraq. Many people argued that the sanctions imposed (mainly by the US/UK, but others as well) were inhumane and unfairly punishing the Iraqi population given Saddam's character. Obviously Saddam was the direct reason for the suffering and cannot be absolved of his responsibility, as he refused to use oil for food money to feed the population, but to what degree could the powers that imposed the sanctions be absolved of responsibility given what they knew about Saddam's actions?

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby MrGee » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:30 pm UTC

If it were absolutely impossible to remove the offender, then society is justified in allowing people to suffer by the greater good argument. If we negotiate with terrorists or criminals, terrorism and crime will become rampant.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Box Boy » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:48 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
If you entered the tunnel and you knew for a fact that you would get raped, is it still the other guy's fault?

The definition of rape is that it's unwanted. There's also a simple solution to the rape-tunnel piece re: consent and fault. The artist can simply...not rape anyone in the tunnel.
However if the "victim" fights back, obviously letting the "artist" know they do not give consent, is it rape then (even if they entered the tunnel knowing what would happen)?

EDIT: I think it would be, but I'm just curious about the the rest of your opinions.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:38 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Gawker is an exceedingly wishy-washy news site.

Seems like a satire of modern art exhibitions where they do stuff like starve a dog etc. Meh, it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. This hypothetical guy's eye is pretty screwed up though.


There is a modern art exhibit where the STARVED A DOG!? WTF!?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Diadem » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:21 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:
podbaydoor wrote:
If you entered the tunnel and you knew for a fact that you would get raped, is it still the other guy's fault?

The definition of rape is that it's unwanted. There's also a simple solution to the rape-tunnel piece re: consent and fault. The artist can simply...not rape anyone in the tunnel.
However if the "victim" fights back, obviously letting the "artist" know they do not give consent, is it rape then (even if they entered the tunnel knowing what would happen)?

EDIT: I think it would be, but I'm just curious about the the rest of your opinions.

I'd say no. Since fighting back (in a realistic fashion) can be part of a rape fantasy. If you agree to rape-roleplaying, well, then you agree to rape-roleplaying. That's why you should agree on a stopword.

This rape tunnel is not rape. It's consensual sex where rape is roleplayed.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby wst » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

So I'm just roleplaying if I stab the guy in the face while 'roleplaying' my resistance? Score.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Internetmeme » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:25 am UTC

Look at it like this:

You entered the tunnel, where you know for a fact that will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
You have consented to enter the tunnel, where you know that you will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
Because you consented to enter the tunnel, you have also consented to the sex.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Malice » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:33 am UTC

Internetmeme wrote:Look at it like this:

You entered the tunnel, where you know for a fact that will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
You have consented to enter the tunnel, where you know that you will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
Because you consented to enter the tunnel, you have also consented to the sex.


But consent can be revoked at any time. Arguably if you reach the end of the tunnel and start fighting back, you've withdrawn consent.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Internetmeme » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:41 am UTC

Malice wrote:
Internetmeme wrote:Look at it like this:

You entered the tunnel, where you know for a fact that will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
You have consented to enter the tunnel, where you know that you will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
Because you consented to enter the tunnel, you have also consented to the sex.


But consent can be revoked at any time. Arguably if you reach the end of the tunnel and start fighting back, you've withdrawn consent.


Is there any legal definition of when sex starts to happen, as in: When the organs connect or when orgasm is reached?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby SummerGlauFan » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:42 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Gawker is an exceedingly wishy-washy news site.

Seems like a satire of modern art exhibitions where they do stuff like starve a dog etc. Meh, it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. This hypothetical guy's eye is pretty screwed up though.


There is a modern art exhibit where the STARVED A DOG!? WTF!?


Yep. My University even bought art from a guy who did this, though the art we bought was not that (it was a caterpillar statue we bought). Still, quite a few of us students, and the larger community, were appalled that our University had supported such an artist.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Malice » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:42 am UTC

Internetmeme wrote:
Malice wrote:
Internetmeme wrote:Look at it like this:

You entered the tunnel, where you know for a fact that will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
You have consented to enter the tunnel, where you know that you will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
Because you consented to enter the tunnel, you have also consented to the sex.


But consent can be revoked at any time. Arguably if you reach the end of the tunnel and start fighting back, you've withdrawn consent.


Is there any legal definition of when sex starts to happen, as in: When the organs connect or when orgasm is reached?


Sex legally is penetration, I think.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Aetius » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:51 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Gawker is an exceedingly wishy-washy news site.

Seems like a satire of modern art exhibitions where they do stuff like starve a dog etc. Meh, it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. This hypothetical guy's eye is pretty screwed up though.


There is a modern art exhibit where the STARVED A DOG!? WTF!?


Yep. My University even bought art from a guy who did this, though the art we bought was not that (it was a caterpillar statue we bought). Still, quite a few of us students, and the larger community, were appalled that our University had supported such an artist.


I always interpreted the piece as showing the herd mentality of the viewer, in that despite seeing a dog starve in front of them, no one would offer it food because they weren't "supposed" to. I could be totally wrong though, I never read any of the artist's own words on the installation.

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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:26 am UTC

"Yeah you fucks are disgusting, letting a dog starve like that!"

Oh, Milligram experiment?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby podbaydoor » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:43 am UTC

Internetmeme wrote:Look at it like this:

You entered the tunnel, where you know for a fact that will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
You have consented to enter the tunnel, where you know that you will be forced to have sex by the person at the end.
Because you consented to enter the tunnel, you have also consented to the sex.

I believe then, the name of the piece is wrong. It's not a "rape" tunnel (since rape by definition does not include consent) it's the "sex conducted in a rough fashion" tunnel. This also means that if consent is withdrawn at the end of the tunnel, the artist must stop.

Anyway, I think the debate surrounding this art piece is pretty irrelevant. We as a society already have a fuckton of issues regarding consent and respecting its importance, we don't need the help of any sort of pointless "thought-provoking" pieces that illustrate weird hypothetical situations that never happen in real life anyway. It's almost an insult to the millions of individuals who were actually raped and have to live with the endless questions over whether they were asking for it or not and whose fault it was.
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:47 am UTC

Does anyone know the legality of contracts regarding rape?

This is coming from someone who knows 0% about actual law process... If someone signs a contract saying that a particular person can rape them (maybe as part of a fantasy or something, don't ask me what the motive would be here :-/) then that person goes ahead with it... can they then be charged with rape if it was stipulated previously that all consent upon signatory would be guaranteed?

And could a lawyer bullshit "Entering the tunnel" into "Guaranteed Consent"?

Doesn't this seem kind of like the Million Dollar Poison intent game thing? Where you have to intend to drink the poison to get the money... but you don't actually have to go through with it?
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Re: Trigger:Sometimes you fail me modern art....

Postby Philwelch » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:44 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:I believe then, the name of the piece is wrong. It's not a "rape" tunnel (since rape by definition does not include consent) it's the "sex conducted in a rough fashion" tunnel. This also means that if consent is withdrawn at the end of the tunnel, the artist must stop.


But the artist has declared he will continue regardless of what you do or say once going through the tunnel. In that case, it is still rape (unless you consent the whole way through).

Gelsamel wrote:Does anyone know the legality of contracts regarding rape?

This is coming from someone who knows 0% about actual law process... If someone signs a contract saying that a particular person can rape them (maybe as part of a fantasy or something, don't ask me what the motive would be here :-/) then that person goes ahead with it... can they then be charged with rape if it was stipulated previously that all consent upon signatory would be guaranteed?


Contracts must have "consideration"--in other words, a benefit to both parties. This is probably enough for *any* sexual contract to be technically classified as prostitution, which is a criminal offense in 49 1/2 states.

Legal remedies for breach of contract vary. The standard remedy, as with any tort, is that you sue and get your money back. If I have a contract to sell you 10,000 pounds of steel for $15,000 and I don't deliver the steel, you can sue me for maybe $30,000 all told. Courts *may* impel something called "specific performance", in which case the court would order me to deliver that 10,000 pounds of steel in addition to, or in place of, any monetary damages.

My best guess is that, if you even had a legally binding contract for sexual services, the prostitute would *not* be required by the court to render specific performance. The best you could get out of suing a prostitute who didn't fuck you was monetary damages.
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Leftism: If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

Perfection is an unattainable goal.


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