College "Skews" Political Spectrum

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JonScholar
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College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby JonScholar » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:31 pm UTC

According to a new study by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI): Watch the video news story here. You can read more about the study and take the civic literacy test that was mentioned here

EDIT: the second link has all the information on the study, including the methodology.
Last edited by JonScholar on Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:35 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:07 am UTC

LOL, Republicans probably answered E to number 25. Number 31 is very, very much a matter of opinion.

And... it seems I got 100%. Still, I disagree with their premise that mass failure of their civics exam comes down to collegiate failure. Universities and colleges are not tasked with teaching civics, except perhaps in Political Science 101. That job falls to secondary and primary schools.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby crowey » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:23 am UTC

It'd be nice to see the actual report they're talking about, rather than hear the fox interpretation of it. From that video I don't know if the survey asked the same questions before the students went to university and then charted the change in opinion. It doesn't surprise me that educated young people, who have just spent 4 years away from their parents and likely meeting lots of other young people with fairly diverse backrounds, are more liberal than the nation as a whole.
Also 14000 doesn't sound like a lot or people considering they are using this to draw conclusions about all graduates in the US, there are 4300ish universities in the USA, that's 3.2 students from each university, hardly representative.

I particularly like how it must be indocrination from "lifestyle liberal" (seriously? the US rightwing media is amazing) professors and definitely not just a result of the social atmosphere in universities.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby frezik » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:24 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:LOL, Republicans probably answered E to number 25.


I don't think most card-carrying GOP members would. However, I do think their general dissatisfaction with the government is often manipulated by interests that are more pro-buisiness rather than pro-capitalist.

Number 31 is very, very much a matter of opinion.


The trick of all multiple choice tests is to figure out what answer they want, not the one that's actually right :D

Missed #7, got the rest.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Mokele » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:27 am UTC

Some points:

1) Do we have a reliable source for this? From a *real* news channel?

2) Yes, people get smarter in college

3) College is not for civics, that's what's *supposed* to be taught in high school.

4) Did they control for length of time since last civics class? Or anything?
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 am UTC

Mokele wrote:2) Yes, people get smarter in college

EPIC FAIL. As much as we liberals like to flatter ourselves, liberal != smart AND liberal != educated. Correlation does not equal causation, nor equivalence. If we say otherwise and smugly hold our perceived self-superiority over those who don't technically agree with us (or the many, many people who agree with most of our core beliefs but don't like to be labeled "liberals")... well, that way lies goddamn Berkeley, that way lies canceling advanced science classes because not enough black kids take them. That way lies the kind of stupid, smug, politically-correct, dogmatic bullshit for which conservatives have every right to flame us.

EDIT: Please, everyone, before just ripping on other people's ignorance, read the actual findings. It appears that lack of civics knowledge doesn't come from party affiliation or from political views. Democrats got a 45% average, Republicans and Independents got a 52%. The incorrect statements people made on the survey's and quizzes came from a wide range of viewpoints; for example, I find it hard to believe that anyone but a liberal Democrat would actually believe that "Congress shares this power [to make foreign policy] with the United Nations."
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Aetius » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:46 am UTC

Stupid semantics on question 29. I still maintain that who pays for it is just as relevant as who benefits from it.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:46 am UTC

Tucker Carlson states from the ISI study that 36% of college graduates failed to name all three branches of the US government, 18% can't name any of the freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment, "a third" didn't know whether the US government can institute a national religion.

The anchor later preemptively assumes people will attack the study and asks "This Intercollegiate Studies Institute tested 14,000 people...any flaws in this study?" Carlson states "There may be [...] but it seems pretty straightforward." Saying something is straightforward doesn't make it so. THERE IS NO CONTROL GROUP. 36% of college graduates can't name all branches because college students are PEOPLE and PEOPLE are stupid. What percentages of people of varying education levels fail this question?

The numbers are certainly bad, but I'm not sure blaming "college" is correct. I'm a college graduate, but a lot of the questions on that quiz are not really germaine to everyday life, nor are they germaine to most college degrees. Someone who graduate college ten years ago but has been doing chemistry or computer programming or writing poetry ever since might forget some of these physics tidbits. I took a lot of college classes that I haven't remembered much from.

I think rather than "college" being the reason people don't know simple facts, society's general apathy toward politics is at least comparably to blame. Most people just don't give a shit.

Inside the spoiler are the actual questions Carlson is referencing, along with why he is clearly idiotic or willfully ignorant with regards to what the data actually means. (I have issues with some of the questions themselves, as well.)
Spoiler:
36% of college graduates answered this incorrectly.

Code: Select all

What are the three branches of government?
A. executive, legislative, judicial
B. executive, legislative, military
C. bureaucratic, military, industry
D. federal, state, local

I'm not a fan of this question. There are three branches to THE UNITED STATES' government. Not to all governments. The question is misleadingly phrased (or at least could have been phrased better.) Granted, the answer to this question should be immediate and obvious, yes, but there's enough wrong with it that I still don't think you can really conclude anything from it.

"a third" of college graduates don't know whether the US can institute a national religion

Code: Select all

The Bill of Rights explicitly prohibits:
A. prayer in public school
B. discrimination based on race, sex, or religion
C. the ownership of guns by private individuals
D. establishing an official religion for the United States
E. the president from vetoing a line item in a spending bill

Jesus fucking Christ, THAT'S NOT EVEN WHAT THE QUESTION IS. No one was asked "Can the US institute a national religion?" and answering the above question incorrectly in no way indicates that you think it can - it merely indicates that you don't think the Bill of Rights is the document that prohibits that.

18% of college graduates can't name a single freedom guaranteed by the First Amendment

Code: Select all

Name one right or freedom guaranteed by the first amendment.
A. Right to bear arms
B. Due process
C. Religion
D. Right to counsel

The freedoms of speech, press, and assembly aren't even listed.
Tucker Carlson's rephrasing and extrapolation of the results and the test questions themselves are a great example of taking information that doesn't support the point you want to make and using that information to support your point anyway. Also, it's disgusting.

The final line from the anchor? "Well, the proof is in the pudding with this study. Fourteen thousand; it's hard to beat a number like that." THE SIZE OF YOUR SAMPLE IS NOT THE ONLY FUCKING ASPECT OF A STUDY THAT MATTERS! If people actually think that a bigger sample size in and of itself legitimizes a study, I'm more worried about science fundamentals than civics literacy.


Clarification: My post is mostly a critique of Fox's framing of this information. The information itself IS useful, but it needs to be contrasted with other relevant data. Fox just throws these statistics out as if they themselves are proof of something - they're not.


Hehehe. From the edited-in link the OP:
2,508 American adults were interviewed by telephone from April 17 to May 10, 2008. The margin of error for the full sample is +/- 2.0 percentage points at the 95% level of confidence. The margin of error for subgroups (e.g., men, women, college graduates, etc.) is higher. The sampling and interview methodology was designed by Dr. Ken Dautrich of the University of Connecticut.
Yeah, I guess 14,000 is pretty hard to beat. Even this very study comes nowhere close!
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby netcrusher88 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:14 am UTC

Fox News claims study of college grads something something ivory tower liberals. News at 11.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby folkhero » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:15 am UTC

On the issue of universities changing opinions on controversial social issues: liberal professor probably have some effect, but much of it probably has to do with the opinion of peers, and the simple fact of meeting a larger group of people. If you get to know more gay people, you're probably going to be more likely to support gay marriage, if you make friends with someone who you find out had an abortion, and is better off for it, it might be easier to change your views on abortion than to consider your friend a murderer.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:16 am UTC

Yeah, as usual Fox News is full of shit. Of course, 2500 remains a fairly significant sample set for the American population, right?

Fox News claims study of college grads something something ivory tower liberals. News at 11.

Funny thing, but if you read the study, being a college professor does in fact skew a person towards views that could be characterized as "ivory-tower liberals", though of course us real liberals only live in Tagua towers.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby frezik » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:24 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Yeah, as usual Fox News is full of shit. Of course, 2500 remains a fairly significant sample set for the American population, right?


There are political surveys with smaller sample sizes, but that's hardly the only thing wrong here.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:08 am UTC

This doesn't shock me.

I only got 30/33, but then, I'm Canadian and a little fuzzy on the numbering of the American bill of rights and the canon of Great American Speeches and Other Great Moments in Comic History (I have this great mental image of Washington whipping a slave for spilling tea on the original declaration of independance or something...)

I do suspect that most average Americans (or Canadians, for that matter) would be hard pressed to post a reasonable score, but that's no excuse.

The real failure here is in our high schools. College is an optional training path that trains you to be a specialist in increasingly narrow fields of expertise. A citizens' formal civic training is supposed to be complete BEFORE then. Whether you become a carpenter, a doctor, a janitor or a miner, you're supposed to know enough about your country to effectively take part in the civic conversation and to make an informed vote.

I'd love to see this test handed out to the staffs at MSNBC, FOX, CNN and, for the heck of it, at the next ten Tea Bagging parties, or whatever you call them, held this week. I doubt they'd do much better than college grads.

So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass. Its too much to hope that voters will suddenly start making smart choices, but it would at least save America (and Canada) some face.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:15 am UTC

It makes sense on the surface, but disproportionately disenfranchises those whose parents are unable or unwilling to instill any academic motivation.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby MrGee » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:41 am UTC

I only got 29/33, is that still enough to qualify for my own ivory tower?

In my defense, two of the questions were poorly written. A public good is NOT defined by the fact that the person who benefits doesn't pay. And how do you debate whether to extend slavery without addressing its morality?

I also missed the Gettysburg quote and the Aristotle one, since I never took classics.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby masher » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:49 am UTC

I got 27. As an Australian who never really learnt any specific American history.

I like how question 8 answers question 2.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Mokele » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:56 am UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass.


Sorry to disappoint, but a brain-damaged monkey could pass that test, unless it's changed a hell of a lot since I took it.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby frezik » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:06 am UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass. Its too much to hope that voters will suddenly start making smart choices, but it would at least save America (and Canada) some face.


Tests like that are banned by the Voting Rights Act, for the very good reason that such tests in the past became excuses to keep black people from voting.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am UTC

I got 30, and I knew the answer to one more (I just misread the answer and chose one that was superficially similar), and I'm a greasy foreigner.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby gametaku » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:52 am UTC

I got a 31/33
with questions 7 and 31 wrong

aleflamedyud, how is 31 an opinion?

Princess Marzipan wrote:Inside the spoiler are the actual questions Carlson is referencing, along with why he is clearly idiotic or willfully ignorant with regards to what the data actually means. (I have issues with some of the questions themselves, as well.)
[spoiler]36% of college graduates answered this incorrectly.

Code: Select all

What are the three branches of government?
A. executive, legislative, judicial
B. executive, legislative, military
C. bureaucratic, military, industry
D. federal, state, local

I'm not a fan of this question. There are three branches to THE UNITED STATES' government. Not to all governments. The question is misleadingly phrased (or at least could have been phrased better.) Granted, the answer to this question should be immediate and obvious, yes, but there's enough wrong with it that I still don't think you can really conclude anything from it.

Accept that you missed the fact that it's a UNITED STATES' civics quiz. If you get the question that is about THE UNITED STATES government wrong on a UNITED STATES' civics quiz because you though the question was about a government that was not THE UNITED STATES, then you deserve to get to get the question marked wrong that is on a UNITED STATES' civics quiz.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby phlip » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:54 am UTC

If we're sharing scores, I got 29/33, as an unAmerican. I missed 4, 7 and 14 (all US history questions), and 32 (a more obscure detail point about division of power). Several others I guessed (either because I wasn't sure of the answer, or all the answers were wrong and I had to guess which one was less wrong, or the question was subjective or controversial), but happened to get right.

gametaku wrote:Accept that you missed the fact that it's a UNITED STATES' civics quiz. If you get the question that is about THE UNITED STATES government wrong on a UNITED STATES' civics quiz because you though the question was about a government that was not THE UNITED STATES, then you deserve to get to get the question marked wrong that is on a UNITED STATES' civics quiz.

Which would be a fine response if the question said "the government" or something, where it would be clear it was referring to the US government... when it actually says "What are the three branches of government"... no definite article, no clarifying country name, not even a proper noun for "Government"... which sounds more like it's talking about "government" as a concept, not any government in particular. Even in a US civics quiz.

I mean, this is a test that also has a random question about "Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas". Unless you're saying that they're referring to the UNITED STATES' Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Velict » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:59 am UTC

I got 32 correct - I missed 31.

On the topic of this study, though, I can't say I'm surprised. I've often equated opposition to social issues (particularly gay marriage) as a result of ignorance and bigotry, and it would make sense that college graduates are less ignorant and less bigoted - partially because they are younger than the general population.

aleflamedyud wrote:LOL, Republicans probably answered E to number 25. Number 31 is very, very much a matter of opinion.


Eh, I'm a card carrying Republican (one of pragmatism more than idealism), and I don't believe so.

Le1bn1z wrote:The real failure here is in our high schools. College is an optional training path that trains you to be a specialist in increasingly narrow fields of expertise. A citizens' formal civic training is supposed to be complete BEFORE then. Whether you become a carpenter, a doctor, a janitor or a miner, you're supposed to know enough about your country to effectively take part in the civic conversation and to make an informed vote.


I agree absolutely. Improving education is always a contentious issue, though - if anything, the attitude in recent years seems to be to dumb down our educational system so that less talented students aren't "left behind" by their classmates.

I'd love to see this test handed out to the staffs at MSNBC, FOX, CNN and, for the heck of it, at the next ten Tea Bagging parties, or whatever you call them, held this week. I doubt they'd do much better than college grads.[/quote]

Oh, I'm sure the journalists would do just fine. Regale them for what they say on television, but don't assume that they're stupid for saying it (most of them are actually very educated/intelligent).

So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass. Its too much to hope that voters will suddenly start making smart choices, but it would at least save America (and Canada) some face.

I suspect that in many minorities lack the access to education that enables someone to pass this test, though. This would actually skew the voting population towards a higher income, higher education group - that is to say, Republicans would probably come out on top if we did this.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:31 am UTC

phlip wrote:Unless you're saying that they're referring to the UNITED STATES' Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

Well played, good sirrah.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:00 am UTC

frezik wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass. Its too much to hope that voters will suddenly start making smart choices, but it would at least save America (and Canada) some face.


Tests like that are banned by the Voting Rights Act, for the very good reason that such tests in the past became excuses to keep black people from voting.

That doesn't actually sound like a very good reason anymore. I'm not sure it ever was.

Princess Marzipan wrote:It makes sense on the surface, but disproportionately disenfranchises those whose parents are unable or unwilling to instill any academic motivation.

Boo fucking hoo. A kid can be self-motivated, they're not some clockwork toy wound up by parents, school, and society and then let loose to run across the table until it falls off the edge.

I am damn well willing to disproportionately disenfranchise the ignorant and apathetic if it means that those still able to vote damn well understand things like the separation of church and state, the checks and balances system, sovereignty (some people thought that the UN can create American foreign policy!), court-stuffing, the Electoral College, and other fairly basic components of modern American government.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby MrGee » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:14 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
phlip wrote:Unless you're saying that they're referring to the UNITED STATES' Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

Well played, good sirrah.


I still don't buy it. That question is like THE stock question about civics. I learned that factoid every year for like 6 years. I drew trees with three freakin' branches.

Then again, I'm an American and I got the lowest score

/cry

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby nyeguy » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:16 am UTC

MrGee wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
phlip wrote:Unless you're saying that they're referring to the UNITED STATES' Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

Well played, good sirrah.


I still don't buy it. That question is like THE stock question about civics. I learned that factoid every year for like 6 years. I drew trees with three freakin' branches.

Then again, I'm an American and I got the lowest score

/cry

I've never seen that before. I could only really tell you that they were important Greek thinkers. And it certainly isn't relevant to US Civics.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby MrGee » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:30 am UTC

nyeguy wrote:
MrGee wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
phlip wrote:Unless you're saying that they're referring to the UNITED STATES' Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

Well played, good sirrah.


I still don't buy it. That question is like THE stock question about civics. I learned that factoid every year for like 6 years. I drew trees with three freakin' branches.

Then again, I'm an American and I got the lowest score

/cry

I've never seen that before. I could only really tell you that they were important Greek thinkers. And it certainly isn't relevant to US Civics.


Ah, that was a terrible quote on my part...I actually meant the question about the three branches of government:
Spoiler:
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Rockberry » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:44 am UTC

I'm not American but I got :
You answered 22 out of 33 correctly — 66.67 %


Suck it!

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:08 am UTC

I got 23, I'm sure I'd get less if there was an Australian version of this.
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Aetius » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:43 am UTC

32/33 (missed the aforementioned public good question, which I still defend. I can think of plenty of private goods that have benefits for those who didn't pay for them).

Even though I got the Aquinas question right, Aquinas has never struck me as a guy with terribly sound reason.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Accipiter » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:30 am UTC

"You answered 28 out of 33 correctly — 84.85 %" Hmm question 8 contains the answer to question 2.

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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby netcrusher88 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:41 am UTC

31/33. Missed the one about the philosophers advocating moral absolutism (I really have no idea what those four were about, though I kind of get the feeling I should) and the one about free trade.

This quiz feels like push polling, but it doesn't push a coherent political position so I suppose it's not.
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AtlasDrugged
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby AtlasDrugged » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:07 pm UTC

28/33 (Got 6, 7, 15, 19 wrong due to not having read the texts/rulings in question - which is embarrassing on one level but if I were American I'd feel worse about it - and 33 due to not reading all the options)

EDIT: I wonder how many people in this forum would agree with the statement contained in 27E...

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Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:24 pm UTC

Hmm.

1) I missed 1 (The puritan question because I am dumb), and thought I would miss the Lincoln debate question because 2 answers looked feasible. I thought I also might miss the plato question because Socrates and Platos did argue that knowledge is relative to your time/place. It was a very poor question -- I only go it right because I figured they were looking for answer E even though A was very nearly true.

2) The test was a trivia contest. The AP Government test which is a quality test, doesnt' do trivia.

3) College students, generally take only 1 civics class their entire 'career' and it generally happens their Freshman year. So the fact they dont' recall some really specific stuff like "define public good", isn't very surprising.
The only use for the study IMHO, would be that a liberal education requires more than one course on civics.

4) For those of you that only missed 1-5ish, I think that is WAY above normal and pretty impressive. I have a degree in Economics and Political Science with a minor in History and I still missed 1 and wasn't 100% confident in 2 others. I might give that test to my students this year just too act as a control group.

5) It would be interesting to see how many of you do, if you take that test again in your 30's and 40's. Its probably just a testament to the caliber of XKCD posters and I can assure you, the high scores being reported here are going to be in the very upper echelon.
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Chen
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Chen » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:51 pm UTC

I got 28/33 as a Canadian without much American history knowledge. Thing is, its a multiple choice test so you can easily discount some answers on some of the questions. I probably took educated guesses on at least 10 of those questions. Really doing poorly on that test just indicates a poor knowledge of those specific issues. I fail to see how they generalize it to anything else.

icanus
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby icanus » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:54 pm UTC

30/33. Not too bad for a brit who's only once never set foot on american soil except for a week in disneyland aged ten. (it was mostly the history trivia that tripped me up - I know the broad strokes of US history, but I'm damned if I know exactly what Lincoln talked about on a particular day)

Also, it might just be because I'm a godless-pinko-commie-leftist-european, but the test really seemed to harp on about the free market a lot. Like really a lot. More than is really relevant to "civics".

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TheGrammarBolshevik
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:56 pm UTC

Just got 33/33, but I don't think it's a very good test. There are a hell of a lot of historical questions that aren't relevant to modern political knowledge, and a lot of other questions that I think are designed poorly. Can't go into much detail, though, since I'm typing on an iPod.

aleflamedyud wrote:
frezik wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:So here's my idea --- make everyone graduating highschool sit the same citizenship test immigrants are made to take, and withhold voting rights until they pass. Its too much to hope that voters will suddenly start making smart choices, but it would at least save America (and Canada) some face.


Tests like that are banned by the Voting Rights Act, for the very good reason that such tests in the past became excuses to keep black people from voting.

That doesn't actually sound like a very good reason anymore. I'm not sure it ever was.

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masakatsu
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby masakatsu » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:10 pm UTC

Didn't miss a one, but it wasn't that hard of a test. Back when I was getting my bachelor's, I clepped out of American History with only missing one question. The question I missed was:

Who was the feminist advocating birth control in the late 1800s?


Still have no idea on that one.
I will not attack your math, just your epistemology.

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TheGrammarBolshevik
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:12 pm UTC

Probably Margaret Sanger.
Nothing rhymes with orange,
Not even sporange.

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Endless Mike
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Re: College "Skews" Political Spectrum

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:33 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:3) College students, generally take only 1 civics class their entire 'career' and it generally happens their Freshman year. So the fact they dont' recall some really specific stuff like "define public good", isn't very surprising.
The only use for the study IMHO, would be that a liberal education requires more than one course on civics.

That's hardly an excuse. My last civic course was my senior year of high school. Your previously mentioned AP [US] Government.


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