Bibles for Porn on college campus

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby tzvibish » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:02 pm UTC

For all those making a big deal out of it on the Internets: You have successfully completed their objective, and they send their sincere thanks.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby The Reaper » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:17 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:For all those making a big deal out of it on the Internets: You have successfully completed their objective, and they send their sincere thanks.

Actually, we're doing what they should be doing, rather than trolling. We're discussing methods and ethics and various other things, rather than saying "OMGWTFRELIGIONBBQ" and then confronting non-confrontational people that were perfectly ok with their lives and not bugging anyone.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:31 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:For all those making a big deal out of it on the Internets: You have successfully completed their objective, and they send their sincere thanks.


Man, I wish we could start temp-banning for some of these canned responses to events.

"Why are we even discussing this? It's not like this should be surprising to anyone."
"Why are we even discussing this? It's not like this is going to accomplish anything."
"Why are we even discussing this? This wouldn't be a problem if you didn't pay it attention."

It's a fucking *discussion board.* We fucking *discuss things.* This happens to be a thing that has piqued enough interest in people that they feel posting about it is worth their time. You have no reason to believe that anyone posting here is frothing at the mouth over this matter.

See what I'm doing right now? THIS is making a big deal of something on the Internets. See what I've done *until* now, and what everyone else is doing? They're posting on a fucking Internet forum.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Dauric » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
tzvibish wrote:For all those making a big deal out of it on the Internets: You have successfully completed their objective, and they send their sincere thanks.

Actually, we're doing what they should be doing, rather than trolling. We're discussing methods and ethics and various other things, rather than saying "OMGWTFRELIGIONBBQ" and then confronting non-confrontational people that were perfectly ok with their lives and not bugging anyone.


Furthering the point: To say someone is getting free press because they're being talked about on XKCD boards is somewhat disingenuous. There's a different caliber of discussion here than you would find on a lot of other current event discussion boards, and XKCDers tend to be more critically evaluative of what we read and discuss. We respond to rational debate, and have little tolerance for Trolls on any side of an issue.

Princess Marzipan wrote:It's a fucking *discussion board.* We fucking *discuss things.* This happens to be a thing that has piqued enough interest in people that they feel posting about it is worth their time. You have no reason to believe that anyone posting here is frothing at the mouth over this matter.


This too.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Entropy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:51 pm UTC

I think a great way to get the message across would be to put up posters with some of the disturbing passages that are actually in the bible, rather than assuming people know why one might have a problem with it. A big 'Did you know this is in the Bible?' campaign could have an interesting effect, especially because it doesn't explicitly make a value judgment: it just brings facts to light, and lets the reader draw their own conclusions.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

As a European, I can attest that yes, most certainly all Europeans and Americans insist if people aren't a Christian, Atheist or secular Humanist, they indeed must be a hybrid. "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him" being a combination of the first two. In fact, we can't actually see members of other faiths. I keep thinking I hear voices as I walk past the local Synagogue, but when I peer inside ... *poof* nothing.

Try being the one outside that box before getting sarcastic about its existence. Oh, and yes, Europeans definitely acknowledge the existence of Muslims -- in much the same way that Americans acknowledge illegal Mexican immigrants.

As to your local synagogue... those are the ghosts.

Do you... Do you often just shout at yourself, and write down the words you say? Because if you hadn't attached that last sentence, I would have totally jumped in first and oppressively prohibited you from even mentioning the word "Mitzvot". As a Christian, apparently it's my job to persecute you, according to you? Or apparently I have some power to allow Islamic information posters to be posted in a public sphere, but not Jewish ones? I had no idea how powerful I can be!

History, my friend. Christian persecution was the original reason for the Jewish ban on proselytizing. I'm less railing on the Christians for persecution (which has gone way, way down in modern times) than on us for being completely unwilling to revise a decision of religious law that no longer has any purpose. Behaving like one's ancestors for no reason is not a virtue, gorramit!

By the way, I hope that this atheist group faces accusations of obscenity and defamation. The standard for obscenity is whether the stuff has any redeeming social, political, or artistic value and whether it fits community standards for obscenity. Trading in Bibles for copies of Dawkins or Hitchens would have been making a statement. Trading Bibles for porn is just offensive for no reason.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Entropy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:17 pm UTC

Defamation? Of what/whom?

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:20 pm UTC

Forgive me for bringing them up again, but the dead fetus groups haven't been prosecuted for obscenity or vulgarity. Neither should the San Antonio group.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:53 pm UTC

Entropy wrote:I think a great way to get the message across would be to put up posters with some of the disturbing passages that are actually in the bible, rather than assuming people know why one might have a problem with it. A big 'Did you know this is in the Bible?' campaign could have an interesting effect, especially because it doesn't explicitly make a value judgment: it just brings facts to light, and lets the reader draw their own conclusions.

Most respectable Christians realize that the Bible is massively out of date and that the stories can still be learned from, but shouldn't be taken literally. Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

So your campaign would further aggravate non-Christians, because they see all the crazy crap 'those Christians" believe, and it would make Christians roll their eyes because what you've plastered up doesn't apply to them (they already don't subscribe the specific parts of the Bible you're quoting.)"

Congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Dauric » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Forgive me for bringing them up again, but the dead fetus groups haven't been prosecuted for obscenity or vulgarity. Neither should the San Antonio group.


And yet a "Wardrobe Malfunction" necessitates the involvement of both houses of congress.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Asylumer » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:01 pm UTC

Hello,

I've been reading this conversation and felt it was necessary to include something I've not seen brought up: the reasons for the protest. Perhaps this interview of the Atheist Agenda's president (on MSNBC w/Tucker Carlson) will help some of you appreciate why Porn was chosen over simply Atheist or objectionable material.

I'd post the link but I recall there being some kind of rule against that before 5 posts or something.

EDIT: Doh, this may have been the older protest somebody mentioned. Yup. It's the one from 2005 when the group got started. I don't think the reason for using Pornography has changed though.

Part of the Transcript:
--------------------------

TUCKER CARLSON: Tell me why you're promising to give porn to people who bring in sacred texts, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran What's the idea?

THOMAS JACKSON: All right. Well, we have Bronze Aged tribal nonsense, these things written by people in tents ages ago, and we're using this to renounce science standards in our classrooms in America. We're using it to kind of influence our political agenda.

And we've read it. Atheists actually tend to be rather knowledgeable about scripture, and we are using this as a medium to get people to know what's actually within the religious text that they hold so dear.

CARLSON: Why porn, though? Why not just argue, you know, about what parts of the sacred text you find specious?

JACKSON: Well, first of all, you know, pornography gets a lot of negative press, and it's smut. A lot of it really is. And we wanted to make the comparison between that and the smut that is religious scripture or a lot of it, you know. The stuff that says a woman is worth half a man, the things that say, you know, you should beat children.

These things aren't acceptable in our society, and if pornography is not acceptable, then these things surely aren't. At the very least, what we're doing is trading something that's very, very bad for something that's only moderately bad.

CARLSON: OK. So it sounds to me like an attempt to create, a fracas on campus and get attention. What kind of attention have you gotten on campus?

JACKSON: Well, we've actually had a lot of open discussion. There has been a minor amount of outrage, but the outrage it's more of a First Amendment rights type of outrage. A lot of people don't really seem to understand that this is America, and we have freedom of speech here.

-------------------------

You can find the full interview with a little google-fu, video and all. I'm not sure that this is the best way for them to convey the message, but after seeing Christians get up in arms about a few billboards which simply stated that Atheists aren't alone, I don't think they'd be happy until we ceased existing.

aleflamedyud wrote:By the way, I hope that this atheist group faces accusations of obscenity and defamation. The standard for obscenity is whether the stuff has any redeeming social, political, or artistic value and whether it fits community standards for obscenity. Trading in Bibles for copies of Dawkins or Hitchens would have been making a statement. Trading Bibles for porn is just offensive for no reason.


I've been lurking here long enough to appreciate the irony in your supporting the same kind of tactic Fundamentalist Muslims do to silence opposing views in countries where they hold sway. Well, admittedly they often go one step beyond and make it a capital punishment, but it's still an attempt to use government against free speech.

I can't begin to explain how morally and intellectually repugnant I find that stance to be.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:23 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:Most respectable Christians realize that the Bible is massively out of date and that the stories can still be learned from, but shouldn't be taken literally. Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.


I've had scripture or stories quoted to me where the quoter was unaware that a few lines later that same person murderified a group of children or raped a few harlots or something.

aleflamedyud wrote:Trading Bibles for porn is just offensive for no reason.

There was a direct response to this, but I'd like to add that the point still remains that they are making a statement pertaining to societies stance on the topic. The bible is FULL of rape and murder, and society abhors people having free sex? I think a really appropriate trade would have been Porn with the Saw movies; for some reason we find it acceptable for anyone over the age of 17 to watch people being savagely ripped apart by barbed wire, but those same children must hide the fact that they have purchased imagery of people having sex.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:59 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I've had scripture or stories quoted to me where the quoter was unaware that a few lines later that same person murderified a group of children or raped a few harlots or something.
Exactly.
Princess Marzipan wrote:Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

=P
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Accipiter » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:24 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I've had scripture or stories quoted to me where the quoter was unaware that a few lines later that same person murderified a group of children or raped a few harlots or something.
Exactly.
Princess Marzipan wrote:Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

=P

But as long as people quote bible passages to support their positions, pointing out that there are bible passages which are problematic isn't useless. It turns the argument "The bible says so" to "The bible says so and I happen to agree while I ignore a few other passages which don't align to my position.", so I would consider popular knowledge about less popular bible passages something positive.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:31 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I've had scripture or stories quoted to me where the quoter was unaware that a few lines later that same person murderified a group of children or raped a few harlots or something.
Exactly.
Princess Marzipan wrote:Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

=P

This has always been my personal biggest contention with using the bible as the foundation of your moral system; you MUST pick and choose otherwise you're a modern day slave owner who stones people who drive on Saturdays and take frequent breaks from your day to burninate the Sheminites. And fine, I agree, religion and such changes over time and there's a modern, oral tradition that must be followed, but how can you cite from the same body of text something to be taken as a fact when a sentence later you have someone condoning murder, rape, pillaging, or the declaration that if I die, my brother has to have a child with my wife?
/OT...

So in short, I suppose yeah, pointing out the absurdity of SOME stuff in the Bible isn't a great exercise, as even the most stalwart of believers recognize it's not ALL literally truth. But surely an advocacy framing the practices espoused in the Bible as smut serves an equally contrary position of presenting those die hards as followers of something unreasonable, just as, I'm sure, many Evangelicals paint, say, a homosexual couples lifestyle as being unreasonable. I just have very little sympathy for offended believers in this story, to second Podbaydoor's point.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:56 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Entropy wrote:I think a great way to get the message across would be to put up posters with some of the disturbing passages that are actually in the bible, rather than assuming people know why one might have a problem with it. A big 'Did you know this is in the Bible?' campaign could have an interesting effect, especially because it doesn't explicitly make a value judgment: it just brings facts to light, and lets the reader draw their own conclusions.

Most respectable Christians realize that the Bible is massively out of date and that the stories can still be learned from, but shouldn't be taken literally. Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

Where are these Christians of yours? I'd like to meet them. Here in the Bible Belt (Texas and/or Missouri) most of the people I know claim to take the Bible very literally. The faith stands and falls on the infallibility of God's Word. That's why I've found it's an effective tactic to point out the truly cherry-picking nature of the way they interpret the Bible, or the objectionable passages in it, or how the Bible has had various books go in and out of its canon at various times. (Of course, then the subsequent response is often either citing factually incorrect information, or doing the equivalent of putting one's fingers in the ears and humming loudly.) This tactic worked on me back when I was a Christian, probably because I was raised in the Southern Baptist literalist tradition.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby General_Norris » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:27 pm UTC

Wow, so Porn is now bad? Meh, I thought they were smarter and the reason they were doing this was because several times religiuos organizations have done exactly the contrary AFAIK.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Texas_Ben » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:17 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Where are these Christians of yours? I'd like to meet them.

There's plenty of them here in Philadelphia.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:28 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Where are these Christians of yours? I'd like to meet them. Here in the Bible Belt (Texas and/or Missouri) most of the people I know claim to take the Bible very literally. The faith stands and falls on the infallibility of God's Word. That's why I've found it's an effective tactic to point out the truly cherry-picking nature of the way they interpret the Bible, or the objectionable passages in it, or how the Bible has had various books go in and out of its canon at various times. (Of course, then the subsequent response is often either citing factually incorrect information, or doing the equivalent of putting one's fingers in the ears and humming loudly.) This tactic worked on me back when I was a Christian, probably because I was raised in the Southern Baptist literalist tradition.

I don't think any atheistic group is going to convince Bible-thumpers of their religious equality.

I have zero respect for someone who does what the Bible says simply because it's what the Bible says. The kind of "Christians" who hate gays because God says they're gross (I hear Jesus got cooties from some gay sneezing near him) aren't the kind of people who will ever give even a modicum of credence to anything you have to say.

In that situation, yeah, you can only point out the direct inconsistencies and try to hope they keep an open mind about it. The problem there, though, is the usual tack is something like "Well God hates shellfish just as much as gays; therefore, everything in the Bible is crap." Even if that's not the actual conclusion, easily-riled "Christians" will likely assume that that's your point or one of your points.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Griffmo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:00 am UTC

This is why Atheism is commonly synonymous with "Smartass douchebag." Seriously.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby mmmcannibalism » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:03 am UTC

Griffmo wrote:This is why Atheism is commonly synonymous with "Smartass douchebag." Seriously.


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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:04 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:whip themselves up into some kind of hilarious frenzy of "oh what a load of douchebags" not realizing that inciting them to it was half the point of a stunt like this.

You do realize that people who do things solely to get negative reactions out of other people are douchebags, right? On the Internet, we call those people trolls, and consider them subhuman.


Well yes, but trolling real life required you to actually have some guts, what with the lack of anonymity and the inability to close the tab if it gets too much for you.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:09 am UTC

Um. They're still douchebags.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Sharlos » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:05 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:Um. They're still douchebags.

So? They're funny douchebags.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:28 am UTC

My point is that no one deserves praise for pissing people off when that's their only goal.

Anonymous and their Scientology trolling: a lot of the individuals involved were simply douchebags. They wanted to piss someone off and Scientologists were as good a target as anyone. Some of them had an ultimate goal of raising more awareness about Scientology and its secrets. For those, pissing off Scientologists was just a side effect of an effective means of accomplishing their main goal.

In this specific case, from the quoted interview earlier, it seems the organizer of this group did have a point to make. I think it was made badly, because the actual point gets buried under all of the umbrage.

But I stand by, and in fact intensify, my point. If your only goal in doing something is to piss someone off, you're a scumsucking waste-of-skin douchebag, and humanity would be better off without your childish antics (and failing that, simply without you).
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Aikanaro » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:41 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
Entropy wrote:I think a great way to get the message across would be to put up posters with some of the disturbing passages that are actually in the bible, rather than assuming people know why one might have a problem with it. A big 'Did you know this is in the Bible?' campaign could have an interesting effect, especially because it doesn't explicitly make a value judgment: it just brings facts to light, and lets the reader draw their own conclusions.

Most respectable Christians realize that the Bible is massively out of date and that the stories can still be learned from, but shouldn't be taken literally. Even if they would deny that, no one really holds to every edict in the Bible anyway.

Where are these Christians of yours? I'd like to meet them.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby MrGee » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:53 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:My point is that no one deserves praise for pissing people off when that's their only goal.

Anonymous and their Scientology trolling: a lot of the individuals involved were simply douchebags. They wanted to piss someone off and Scientologists were as good a target as anyone. Some of them had an ultimate goal of raising more awareness about Scientology and its secrets. For those, pissing off Scientologists was just a side effect of an effective means of accomplishing their main goal.

In this specific case, from the quoted interview earlier, it seems the organizer of this group did have a point to make. I think it was made badly, because the actual point gets buried under all of the umbrage.

But I stand by, and in fact intensify, my point. If your only goal in doing something is to piss someone off, you're a scumsucking waste-of-skin douchebag, and humanity would be better off without your childish antics (and failing that, simply without you).


I'm just trying to imagine where we'd be if Martin Luther King tried to promote Civil Rights with porn mags. I think I would still have my own drinking fountain.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby dg61 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:25 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
NOTE: I do realize that there are geographical exceptions. In California you can't really be Christian but you can be Buddhist. In NY/NJ Judaism and Islam go on the menu.

Throw in the DC metro area, where there are large Jewish and Hindu/Bhuddist/other eastern religion populations. Also, this thread really makes me want to start an "intelligent theist" group where you can trade in Jeebus and Dawkins tracts(and equivalents for other groups) for The Varieties of Religious Experience.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Bright Shadows » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:48 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:But I stand by, and in fact intensify, my point. If your only goal in doing something is to piss someone off, you're a scumsucking waste-of-skin douchebag, and humanity would be better off without your childish antics (and failing that, simply without you).

Douchery is not cool, but the person behind it isn't a scumsucking waste-of-skin. Humanity would not be better off without them 99.999% of the time. Even douches can have positive impacts, and moreover, they can change. Your point is wrong, insulting, and delivered hypocritically, self-depreciatingly, or both. Please do not make it again.
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Le1bn1z
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:33 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:
podbaydoor wrote:
They're doing that last bit very well- by being extreme about it, other atheists who may feel alone or unable to speak out are encouraged by example, not to do something deliberately offensive, but to say anything at all.

Yeah, this. At my school, between Campus Crusade and various Christian fraternities and people inviting you to bible study every week and the three different churches that hold services on campus and evangelizers screaming in Speaker's Circle and prayers before various official functions and Jesus t-shirts everywhere, a Christian can probably be assured that someone will be backing hir up if ze speaks out about hir beliefs.

The San Antonio group may have chosen an extreme, satirical way to announce their presence and confront people. It's definitely not the worst thing they could do to raise awareness of their group and make a point - given that doing ANYTHING AT ALL (that isn't meek and furtive) would wind up ruffling the majority group's feathers (especially in Texas).


Yes Bible studies, praying and jesus t-shirts. How dare they carry mild references to their religion in public, or invite people to bible studies. And then they pray. In their churches. Egad.

Time for extreme action. These activites are clearly equal to pornography, and must be stopped. Next thing you know, they'll be marginalising women and treating them as objects, the sexist scum.

Thanks for putting this in context, and reinforcing my earlier post.

No. My point is that it's acceptable to be "out and proud" (as it were) as a Christian, and to be assured that there are many like you and you are supported, and you have at least nominal representation everywhere in all levels of American society, and that being Christian is regarded as the "norm," which is reinforced by the casual acceptance and pervasiveness of all these tokens of the faith. This is not the case for atheists, especially in Texas. Anything they do, including existing (much less organizing, how dare they get into a group and make a statement, egads!), goes against the "norm."

The San Antonio group could have taken more well-thought-out, slightly less in-your-face actions, yes. The tenor of their statement could be considered trolling, yes. But the context is that even if they'd taken actions that weren't trolling, perhaps even taken actions identical to what some religious groups do on a daily basis, they'd still be standing alone, and the religious outrage would be much the same.


So the atheist response is to play a game of one upmanship? Christians can be dicks, so to show our pride and fight their dickishness, we're going to be BIGGER dicks!

Whose the Club President, Baldrick?

Well, here'd be my cunning plan. I think if you're a college with a majority female population, combatting a religion that has a fair number of clubs dedicated to getting women out of prostitution and porn is to promote women getting into porn?

I have to question the thinking behind this. Surely there are better ways of expressing pride and solidarity? Surely we should hold atheists to the same standards as Christians? Racing to the bottom of the gutter is hardly an expression of pride, its one of self-contempt.

P.S. I've said it many times, I only get involved and follow news for the humour value. There is just such glorious irony abounding every day, and I get it all to myself.

I particularily love the fact that, confronted by Christian, Muslim and Jewish fundamentalists claiming that tolerance of atheism leads invariably to the denegration and contempt of women, pornographisation of all relationships and end of public decency is to prove them right by making porn distribution the flagship activity of the atheist club.

Not science. Not reason. Not enlightened philantrophy. Not civil discourse. Porn.

"I have devised a cunning plan...."
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Maurog » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:02 am UTC

Hey hey hey, people will only objectify women if they use porn as instruction manuals. Just like people will only treat women as subhuman if they take their holy books literally. Which makes the analogy between the two work. You cannot present all these moderate and/or progressive religious types and then portray all porn users as fundamentalists. Meet Joe Shmoe, a loving husband who has nothing but respect for his wife and women in general, but sometimes Joe watches porn. In fact, they watch porn together, and it makes their marriage all the more successful.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:23 am UTC

Maurog wrote:Hey hey hey, people will only objectify women if they use porn as instruction manuals. Just like people will only treat women as subhuman if they take their holy books literally. Which makes the analogy between the two work. You cannot present all these moderate and/or progressive religious types and then portray all porn users as fundamentalists. Meet Joe Shmoe, a loving husband who has nothing but respect for his wife and women in general, but sometimes Joe watches porn. In fact, they watch porn together, and it makes their marriage all the more successful.


Well, I never follow all the posts all the way back, so I'll never hold it against you, but my post makes a lot more sense if you read the others.

I'm laughing at the symbolic pissing match going on. I personally don't have anything against porn. But I know enough about the Christian, Muslim and Jewish campus groups to know that an atheist club making a huge to-do about passing out porn plays right into the fundie hands.

It's one of about three to five "told-you-so's" they're trumpeting now in their increasingly successful recruitment drives, and a real thorn in the side of moderates. I mean, this is one of the things that moderates promised would never happen during the advent of religious tolerance.

The fundie lobbies in the middle east, in particular, love stuff like this. It's like a poster rally for the Islamic Republic in Iran, payed for people who think they're fighting against that sort of thing.

And what's truly scary is that these people are supposedly smart enough to get into university. Might need to revisit admission standards.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby psyck0 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:27 am UTC

On the other hand, there are those of us who feel that religion is inherently so stupid and harmful that none of us should be moderate in our opposition to it, and that attempts to "reconcile" it are merely postponing the inevitable, as well as pandering to idiots. You can't reconcile reason and faith. There is no logic to faith.

So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:35 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:On the other hand, there are those of us who feel that religion is inherently so stupid and harmful that none of us should be moderate in our opposition to it, and that attempts to "reconcile" it are merely postponing the inevitable, as well as pandering to idiots. You can't reconcile reason and faith. There is no logic to faith.

So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.


Yes. Newton. Leibniz. Descartes. Martin Luther King Jr. Ghandi.

Morons.

We must halt the toxic evil of Desmond Tutu and William Wilberforce. Long live Jefferson!

Good thing we have you to take us beyond their idiocy. Please, I'd love to hear more about how much smarter you are than they, that allows you to hold them in such biting contempt.

And the best way to prove that it is their religion that so unnessesarily promotes conflict, ignorance and intolerance is to.....welllll, do that.

That will help highlight the differences and benefits which seperates atheism from other strains of religious thought or ideology. A brilliant presentation. Genius.

Is your real name Baldrick?
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Sharlos » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:43 am UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:
psyck0 wrote:On the other hand, there are those of us who feel that religion is inherently so stupid and harmful that none of us should be moderate in our opposition to it, and that attempts to "reconcile" it are merely postponing the inevitable, as well as pandering to idiots. You can't reconcile reason and faith. There is no logic to faith.

So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.


Yes. Newton. Leibniz. Descartes. Martin Luther King Jr. Ghandi.

Morons.

We must halt the toxic evil of Desmond Tutu and William Wilberforce. Long live Jefferson!

Good thing we have you to take us beyond their idiocy. Please, I'd love to hear more about how much smarter you are than they, that allows you to hold them in such biting contempt.

And the best way to prove that it is their religion that so unnessesarily promotes conflict, ignorance and intolerance is to.....welllll, do that.

That will help highlight the differences and benefits which seperates atheism from other strains of religious thought or ideology. A brilliant presentation. Genius.

Is your real name Baldrick?

Wow, you really like putting words in other peoples mouths don't you?

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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby CHR1110 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:49 am UTC

Nevermind. I was gonna troll, but I decided against it.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Bright Shadows » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:56 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.

What would be being spread, here? Is this a general support thing for other atheists? It's clearly not going to convert anyone, though it might make for getting more people to read Bibles.
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Le1bn1z
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:59 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:
psyck0 wrote:On the other hand, there are those of us who feel that religion is inherently so stupid and harmful that none of us should be moderate in our opposition to it, and that attempts to "reconcile" it are merely postponing the inevitable, as well as pandering to idiots. You can't reconcile reason and faith. There is no logic to faith.

So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.


Yes. Newton. Leibniz. Descartes. Martin Luther King Jr. Ghandi.

Morons.

We must halt the toxic evil of Desmond Tutu and William Wilberforce. Long live Jefferson!

Good thing we have you to take us beyond their idiocy. Please, I'd love to hear more about how much smarter you are than they, that allows you to hold them in such biting contempt.

And the best way to prove that it is their religion that so unnessesarily promotes conflict, ignorance and intolerance is to.....welllll, do that.

That will help highlight the differences and benefits which seperates atheism from other strains of religious thought or ideology. A brilliant presentation. Genius.

Is your real name Baldrick?

Wow, you really like putting words in other peoples mouths don't you?


Not entirely sure where the word-putting takes place, but your post seriously p-ssed me off. You repeatedly made very clear what you think of people who follow religion. Religion, you say, panders to idiots. Religious people are illogical and there is no merit in anything they say or do related to religion.

Very clearly implicit in this is that you are smarter than they, and you must use shocking means to re-educate them.

I've been putting up with this sort of drivel for a long time. The top graduating student from my high school, Christian. From my university overall, Christian. From my department, Christian. From my Grad program, Christian. Many of my best professors were practicing Christians. One of the better math students I've ever known was Muslim. As someone who wrote his grad thesis on the history of science in the era of Newton, I can't help to have noticed a great many brilliant scientists who were active religious apologists.

I have never seen anything that has even remotely demonstrated any intellectual superiority from atheists or atheist schools of thought. All I have seen is a snide, unearned sense of superiority, not disimillar to the unearned sense of moral superiority from radical religious types.

So, in a sense, I don't mind pissing off snide atheists or being confrontational so long as it spreads the message. They don't consider me worthy of conversation, anyway.

Even the Jehovah's Witnesses who come by have shown more decency, intelligence and class than you.
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:02 am UTC

People, you're ignoring my important question:
What kind of porn was it?
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Re: Bibles for Porn on college campus

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:03 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:On the other hand, there are those of us who feel that religion is inherently so stupid and harmful that none of us should be moderate in our opposition to it, and that attempts to "reconcile" it are merely postponing the inevitable, as well as pandering to idiots. You can't reconcile reason and faith. There is no logic to faith.

So in that sense, I don't care about pissing off religious people or being confrontational as long as it spreads the message. They're not the target audience, anyway.

This post resonates with me initially, but I think that's because I'm soundly in the Christian States of America, where morality is dictated by a set of rules I disagree with large swathes of.

I think it's really only the Judeo-Christian religions that are problematic, and Judaism not so much. The others are very focused on having their rules apply to all people, not just followers.

There are questions science has not answered. It might answer them someday, but we still really have no idea how to explain our own self-awareness. Or why the universe is. I'll admit that blind acceptance of every tenet of a religion requires willfully eschewing science and therefore logic and reason, but there is a medium there somewhere, I'd like to hope.
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