Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

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Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:02 am UTC

I don't think this has been put up already, but here it goes.
Sony has said it will disable a feature on its PlayStation 3 (PS3) console in a move some consider to be a pre-emptive strike to guard against games piracy.

The firm said that an update to be released on 1 April will prevent people using a function that allows them to install alternative operating systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8594720.stm

I am rather pissed off with this one.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:09 am UTC

Sony has said it will disable a feature on its PlayStation 3 (PS3) console in a move some consider to be a pre-emptive strike to guard against games piracy.

The firm said that an update to be released on 1 April will prevent people using a function that allows them to install alternative operating systems.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:11 am UTC

Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a joke. From what I have read, the sales reps are answering from the same canned line. Besides, it isn't the first time they do something like this, remember the Sony Rootkit lawsuit. Maybe if they see how much of a backlash this caused, they would pretend it to be one. But I am afraid I might just be having false hope here.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Josephine » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:47 am UTC

so, basically, install an alternative OS right now.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:35 am UTC

nbonaparte wrote:so, basically, install an alternative OS right now.

That will accomplish nothing. Once you update, you lose access to the Other OS.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby tinylamb » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:47 am UTC

The latest update will be rolled out on 1 April, making many gamers think it was an April Fool's joke.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:41 am UTC

tinylamb wrote:
The latest update will be rolled out on 1 April, making many gamers think it was an April Fool's joke.
I sure hope so too, but Sony is not Blizzard, and is not known for humour.

Edit: Apparently the "patch" is now live, and it is as feared. Sony can go to hell.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:46 am UTC

Modchip time. Warranties are for pussies
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:57 am UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:Modchip time. Warranties are for pussies
It's not like I have warranties anyways. I bought it almost 2 years ago.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:18 pm UTC

I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:27 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.
You know, I'm kind of tired of articles on X, and some asshole walks in and goes "WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT X, IDIOTS" without bothering to actually read the damn thread to perhaps find out WHY people tend to care about it.

That kind of post adds NOTHING to a discussion. You want to bitch about it, at the very least give REASONS no one should give a fuck.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby JayAr » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:03 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.

:cry:
I use it! In fact I made a couple of posts using it! I prefer my notebook, but Linux has some uses for me.

Anyways Happy April 1st :!:
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Kayangelus » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:10 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.
You know, I'm kind of tired of articles on X, and some asshole walks in and goes "WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT X, IDIOTS" without bothering to actually read the damn thread to perhaps find out WHY people tend to care about it.

That kind of post adds NOTHING to a discussion. You want to bitch about it, at the very least give REASONS no one should give a fuck.


You are requiring a group of people who generally lack intelligence, to use intelligence before posting.

Good luck on that one.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:34 pm UTC

Kayangelus wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.
You know, I'm kind of tired of articles on X, and some asshole walks in and goes "WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT X, IDIOTS" without bothering to actually read the damn thread to perhaps find out WHY people tend to care about it.

That kind of post adds NOTHING to a discussion. You want to bitch about it, at the very least give REASONS no one should give a fuck.


You are requiring a group of people who generally lack intelligence, to use intelligence before posting.

Good luck on that one.
That logic doesn't apply so well on the xkcd forums.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:24 pm UTC

How about: "Who cares: I would never buy a locked-down box for installing (gnu/)Linux®!" For the people who like to "jailbreak" their machines, this is just more of a challenge!

This just shows the pitfalls of relying of proprietary drivers (or hardware) for your Free and Open Source Software.

PS: the people running clusters won't be installing this update.

Edit: I think I may have come across a little strong: I am reluctant to even buy modern "PC" hardware because it is no longer open. Your video card will implement High Definition Content Protection (encrypts signal going to the display so you can't capture it .. .or something). The board may include a Trusted Platform Module (They don't restrict your choice of OS: yet). Any cheap add-on cards that offload work to the CPU will require proprietary drivers. For wireless cards this is an FCC requirement (Open Source Software Implemented radios are not allowed (radio must be tamper resistant)). Most "media cards" such as SD and MemoryStik implement some form of "copy protection," making them unsuitable floppy replacements (and only the SD card has a write-protect tab). CPRM also applies to (official) DVD media.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:46 pm UTC

phillipsjk wrote:How about: "Who cares: I would never buy a locked-down box for installing (gnu/)Linux®!" For the people who like to "jailbreak" their machines, this is just more of a challenge!

This just shows the pitfalls of relying of proprietary drivers (or hardware) for your Free and Open Source Software.

PS: the people running clusters won't be installing this update.
How about people like myself, who uses it as a cheap computer when not gaming? Yes, I would care less if I run it as a cluster, but this is not the case. I am using it to run overnight projects since there are good reasons not to do it on my laptop. (from overheating to lagging my browsers) At least the games I play doesn't require online access (other than trophy), but I am still very, very pissed off.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:50 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:I don't see why this is a big deal. Who the hell even uses Linux on PS3 and why? If Linux on your PS3 is that important, don't update.
You know, I'm kind of tired of articles on X, and some asshole walks in and goes "WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT X, IDIOTS" without bothering to actually read the damn thread to perhaps find out WHY people tend to care about it.

That kind of post adds NOTHING to a discussion. You want to bitch about it, at the very least give REASONS no one should give a fuck.

I did read the article. As well as several articles from enthusaist blogs and websites. (It's worth noting this was announced prior to April 1, so no, it's not a joke.) Not one has give any reasons why it is bad other than "BUT I PAID FOR IT!!" and "BUT IT WILL STILL GET HACKED!!" while pointing out that the latter reason actually makes it more likely that PS3 games will get hacked (people have mostly left it alone since the reason people hack consoles - to run their own code which leads to piracy - was allowed from the beginning).

People running PS3 clusters won't care because they aren't playing games on their PS3s, so they won't need the update, and I'm pretty sure at least some are custom ordered with Linux put on it since the military ordered a bunch of Slim models that never had the Other OS feature to begin with.

If having Linux attached to your TV is that important, you can get an Atom-based machine that will blow away the PS3's Linux implementations for like half the price.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:53 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:If having Linux attached to your TV is that important, you can get an Atom-based machine that will blow away the PS3's Linux implementations for like half the price.
Have you read nothing of my post? I don't want to spend another 500 dollars for ANOTHER computer if I don't have to. And no, even with just 2 cores the PS3 is comparable to a P4 machine (in fact, it's not much slower than my dual core laptop, modulo severe memory constraints, but you don't need memory when you are running an IP solver), and I have the docs to run 7 cores if I wanted to. (though programming it is a bit of a pain)

I mean, if I knew that's what they are going to do, I might as well buy an xBox (or Wii) + computer at the beginning, instead of the overly expensive PS3.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:58 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:How about people like myself, who uses it as a cheap computer when not gaming?


You have two options:
  • give up gaming
  • Find a cheap used system. For a while the Pentium III was probably the sweat spot. See above rant for my cautions against a new "cheap"
    computer.
  • Option 3: give up gaming temporarily, write a paper letter to Sony explaining how you use the system and why the change negatively effects you. Encourage anyone using the feature to do the same. Maybe they will reverse their decision, but I wouldn't count on it. They may (incorrectly) assume you are just interested in pirating games. The only way to win is not to play.

Seriously, one of the selling points of consoles is that they are not general-purpose computers, so presumably you can't mess them up too easily. The move to encourage the masses to avoid "General Purpose" computers worries me. They would not be so easy to mess up if the bundled (and popular commercial) software was sanely designed! There should be no way to "accidentally" run executable code. For example, I have JavaScript disabled on my browser, now I have to use the Gopher Mirror to view the XKCD comics :roll: (well, I could install an RSS client)
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:02 pm UTC

phillipsjk wrote:
achan1058 wrote:How about people like myself, who uses it as a cheap computer when not gaming?


You have two options:
  • give up gaming
  • Find a cheap used system. For a while the Pentium III was probably the sweat spot. See above rant for my cautions against a new "cheap" computer.
Neither is an option.
a) I paid for too many PS2/PS3 games to quit now.
b) I am running research type programs, so CPU speed is essential. I already said with only 2 cores it isn't much slower than my laptop, with 7 it should be significantly faster.

And the PS3 IS a general purpose computer, minus the memory constraints.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:11 pm UTC

I was editing my post while you made your reply.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the "General Purpose" computer part. "General Purpose" computers have been hard to find ever since Windows Vista came out. IMO, if it includes any DRM, it is no longer a General Purpose computer: DRM is specifically designed to remove purposes. To have freedom, you must have freedom to break the law (and face the consequences).
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:16 pm UTC

On option 3, no, that won't do. There have been enough rage in various forums already, and they don't listen. I have however sent an e-mail to a consumer protection agency in Canada and asked them for advice. If they overstep their bounds on their part, they will likely get sued without me doing anything further than notifying the various agencies.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Cleverbeans » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:52 pm UTC

All I can say is that's what you get for buying a Sony product. How many times do they have to do evil stupid shit before people clue in?
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

Cleverbeans wrote:All I can say is that's what you get for buying a Sony product. How many times do they have to do evil stupid shit before people clue in?
The alternative for console games xBox (to tell the truth I never really considered the Wii), which isn't much better.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:21 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:On option 3, no, that won't do. There have been enough rage in various forums already, and they don't listen. I have however sent an e-mail to a consumer protection agency in Canada and asked them for advice. If they overstep their bounds on their part, they will likely get sued without me doing anything further than notifying the various agencies.

What is a consumer protection agency going to do? No one is forcing you to install the update. You can still play everything released up until now with no problem provided you don't want to play online.

(As for your previous post, no I didn't read it as I was still typing mine when you posted. But even with that in mind, you bought a *video game console* not a computer.)

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Decker » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:22 pm UTC

Cleverbeans wrote:All I can say is that's what you get for buying a Sony product.

This is where I immedietly stopped caring.
You're right! I mean, forget that it sports some of the most advanced hardware found in a console! Forget some of the great games and the fact that you can play Blu-Ray movies on it! Forget the fact that sony generally makes some damn good products! No one should have bought it because Sony might possibly put some lockdowns on their software! It's all the buyers fault!

Bloody hell.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:32 pm UTC

With the Image Constraint Token, Blu-ray is just an expensive way to play DVD quality movies :evil:

(And with HDMI, HDCP can be used to refuse to talk to your expensive "True HD ready" television (or vice versa).)

There is a certain responsibility on the consumers' part: they need to stop buying this crap just because it is new and shiny. I don't think the government will be willing to step in as long as they are giving such shenanigans legal backing (as required by the 1996 WIPO copyright treaty). This kind of thing is why public debate about Copyright reform and the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement matters.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:33 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:What is a consumer protection agency going to do? No one is forcing you to install the update. You can still play everything released up until now with no problem provided you don't want to play online.
Misguiding advertisement, basically. They have publicly make statements that they are not going to remove the other OS, among other things.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Decker » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:35 pm UTC

Yeah yeah. I'm just saying that not everyone who bought a Playstation 3 is a fucking idiot because they didn't see this coming. Yeah, it's a shitty thing to do. Yeah, Sony has done shitty things in the past (See CD Rootkit fiasco.) But those problems have never cropped up in their CONSOLES before.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:37 pm UTC

You would think they would have learned from the Rootkit lawsuit by now. Apparently not. From what I heard, they were force to pay a fine, offer removal for the rootkit, and pay $150 compensation to people affected?

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Decker » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:40 pm UTC

You'd think. Possibly if enough pressure is put on them they'll remove this restriction in a later update
Possibly, definitly not probably.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:44 pm UTC

Decker wrote:You'd think. Possibly if enough pressure is put on them they'll remove this restriction in a later update
Possibly, definitly not probably.
I hope so. Actually, I hope GeoHot can find a way to hack the Slim to make them see how pointless their move was, and then they would have no reason to remove the other OS. Until then, I am not upgrading.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby wst » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:31 am UTC

Not even going to approach this from the 'what defines a computer?' angle. You're overcomplicating things.

2 major selling points for the PS3 were - free online gameplay. Complete gameplay. Against others, like XBL Gold, but FREE! All you need is the console!. The other one was being able to run Linux on it.

Ok, so Sony have said 'Ok, you can still run Linux on this, but you can't play online or newer games.'

This, to me, is like buying a car and then being told 'Ok, you can still drive it, but you're going to have to give up another purchased feature... the stereo.'

Fuck off, Sony. People have bought your product, on the premise of FREE online gameplay and FREE rights to use Linux on the system. The problem you have is some people abusing the freedom you gave them. Don't take that freedom away, as they'll just find another way to get it back, leaving honest users with a car without a stereo...
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:41 pm UTC

I understand that the risks of DRM are rarely it ever covered during the sales pitch. That does not change the fact that consumers need to avoid buying products that implement DRM. Unfortunately, DRM is becoming so ubiquitous that you would have to become a modern-day Luddite to avoid it.

For a car analogy, it would be like GM saying they reserve the right to remotely shutdown your car if you have a dispute with law enforcement. The only way to avoid it would be to go "off grid" by disabling OnStar's cellphone antenna, giving up the hands-free cell phone functionality.

Blu-ray was already mentioned in this thread: If you have a HDTV with only component Inputs, you are expected to replace it with a HDTV using inferior (especially for long runs) digital inputs. This is enforced by the Image Constraint Token that allows studios to force DVD resolution on analog outputs. As of this year, Blu-ray players will no longer support analog outputs. Because of all this (and the device black-list feature), I recommend giving Blu-ray a pass. 9x the resolution is not worth the extra trouble (picture size is more important than quality).

I already covered why computers are subject to the same thing. Don't believe the sales person when they say it won't be used. Such "features" were deliberately added costing time and money. You can argue that it is a "Bait and Switch" all you want, but as such "technologies" become ubiquitous, it will ring increasingly hollow.

PS: "Copy-protected" CDs are not real CDs. Real CD's implement the Red Book Standard (IEC 60908) and bear the "Compact Disc; Digital Audio" logo.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby achan1058 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:28 pm UTC

L O L

Apparently a bypass is already available. Sony fails.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:40 am UTC

A link would have been helpful. It is apparently an old trick: tell the PS3 it is up-to-date. Only works until a Game disk requires new firmware or the protocol for online play changes.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:57 pm UTC

wst wrote:2 major selling points for the PS3 were - free online gameplay. Complete gameplay. Against others, like XBL Gold, but FREE! All you need is the console!. The other one was being able to run Linux on it.

I'm sorry, being able to run Linux wasn't an even remotely major selling point or they wouldn't have cut out half the available RAM, some of the SPUs and the entire GPU. It was more like an added bonus for some people to tool around with.

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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby Griffin » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:48 pm UTC

Personally, I consider this pretty terrible. If you bought the system based on so and so promised features, and bought games based on the assumption you could play them online, for Sony to swoop down and say you must lose one of the two, that is not right.

The fact that they do stuff like this all the time means it should also surprise no one.

Personally, this SHOULD be illegal, as I consider it a form of contract violation (retroactively removing features from a system that was sold with those features), but as to whether or not it is, well...

and anyone who's saying "just don't update", it doesn't change the central component - they are removing a feature no matter what you do, the feature they are removing just changes.
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby wst » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:00 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
wst wrote:2 major selling points for the PS3 were - free online gameplay. Complete gameplay. Against others, like XBL Gold, but FREE! All you need is the console!. The other one was being able to run Linux on it.

I'm sorry, being able to run Linux wasn't an even remotely major selling point or they wouldn't have cut out half the available RAM, some of the SPUs and the entire GPU. It was more like an added bonus for some people to tool around with.
Oops, I'm sorry, I mean... it was a major selling point to those people who would look at Linux-capability when buying a console. These same people might want to get the full functionality of any games they buy.

Ok, amended. Any nitpicks from you on my statement now?
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Re: Sony to disable PlayStation 3 operating system feature

Postby phillipsjk » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm UTC

Griffin: free "updates" have not been a "feature" since about 1996 when the idea of DRM started to take hold in legal circles. I agree it should be illegal, but our lawmakers are going in the opposite direction: making it illegal to circumvent "DRM" and retroactive feature removal.

I don't think all this will shake out in our life-time. Once computers mature, "Updates" won't be needed to fix bugs anyway: the software (and hardware) will be proven correct as it is written. "Updates" would cost money because they actually add features. I'm estimating 250-400 years.
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