1 W laser pointer hits the market.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby the_bandersnatch » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:31 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:Actually, the goggles they provide are woefully inadequate.


That because the goggles, they do nothing.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Telchar » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:34 pm UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:That because the cockscockscocks, they do nothing.


Success!

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:04 pm UTC

If you're going to go the sniper+laser route you may as well make the rifle itself a high power laser. Your power source doesn't need to be good for as many as many shots as front line weapons require and you have no bullet drop or report to give your position away.
Might only be good for certain types of targets though. Gotta research that.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:21 pm UTC

How much power would a laser have to have to be able to burn a hole through your target's head in less than, say, a second? I would imagine it's quite a lot, so that'd be one hell of a battery you'd be lugging around with your laser sniper gun.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dark Avorian » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:26 pm UTC

Not to mention if you hit anything refective by accident while he was falling or anyhting you could easily go blind.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:34 pm UTC

Well I suppose ideally it would be a pulse much shorter than a second, so that it has already stopped firing before the body even has a chance to move a millimetre. The only danger then would be if the beam hits a reflective surface positioned exactly so that it reflects perfectly back through the hole.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:37 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:How much power would a laser have to have to be able to burn a hole through your target's head in less than, say, a second? I would imagine it's quite a lot, so that'd be one hell of a battery you'd be lugging around with your laser sniper gun.


If you only need one shot, then I would think that you could get it down to the size of a large housebrick.

In terms of risk, I would imagine that having the optic automatically close a spit second before the beam energises would be sufficient.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

I thought of that, but that only stops a returning beam from going back into your eye. If the angle is off by even a fraction of a degree, it could hit you anywhere in the face. Given that this is a beam powerful enough to burrow through a man's skull, this is likely to be a very bad thing for our assassin.

Actually, if the beam is sufficiently powerful, wouldn't it just go straight through the mirror anyway without anything being reflected?
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dark Avorian » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:49 pm UTC

So...to be safe I'm gonna assume 14 degree celsius increase is enough too overheat the brain and cause brain damage. given that average head weighs 4500g, and that specific heat of water is 4.184 (and will be somewhat close to specific heat of head) you would want to deliver 260,000 joules, if delivered over an entire second that would require a 260000W laser...and...uh...

wikipedia wrote: A small electric heater with one heating element can use 1.0 kilowatt.


so...with enough power to power 260 small electric heaters...you might be able cause brain damage from a one second burst :D
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Glass Fractal » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:49 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I thought of that, but that only stops a returning beam from going back into your eye. If the angle is off by even a fraction of a degree, it could hit you anywhere in the face. Given that this is a beam powerful enough to burrow through a man's skull, this is likely to be a very bad thing for our assassin.

Actually, if the beam is sufficiently powerful, wouldn't it just go straight through the mirror anyway without anything being reflected?


A laser powerful enough to kill someone will destroy the reflectivity of any real surface instantly.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dark Avorian » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:51 pm UTC

In other words, the laser would probably just make your gun asplode and blind/kill you in a huge flash of light
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Glass Fractal » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

Dark Avorian wrote:So...to be safe I'm gonna assume 14 degree celsius increase is enough too overheat the brain and cause brain damage. given that average head weighs 4500g, and that specific heat of water is 4.184 (and will be somewhat close to specific heat of head) you would want to deliver 260,000 joules, if delivered over an entire second that would require a 260000W laser...and...uh...

wikipedia wrote: A small electric heater with one heating element can use 1.0 kilowatt.


so...with enough power to power 260 small electric heaters...you might be able cause brain damage from a one second burst :D


Apparently heating the target until it dies is one the less efficient ways of using a laser. A better option is to use ultra short pulses of energy light.
http://panoptesv.com/SciFi/Blaster.html

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:15 pm UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:
Dark Avorian wrote:So...to be safe I'm gonna assume 14 degree celsius increase is enough too overheat the brain and cause brain damage. given that average head weighs 4500g, and that specific heat of water is 4.184 (and will be somewhat close to specific heat of head) you would want to deliver 260,000 joules, if delivered over an entire second that would require a 260000W laser...and...uh...

wikipedia wrote: A small electric heater with one heating element can use 1.0 kilowatt.


so...with enough power to power 260 small electric heaters...you might be able cause brain damage from a one second burst :D


Apparently heating the target until it dies is one the less efficient ways of using a laser. A better option is to use ultra short pulses of energy light.
http://panoptesv.com/SciFi/Blaster.html


If you're heating directly you'd want to use an IR laser, which then incurrs massive losses when passing through the atmosphere for more than say 10 feet. Whereas using a higher frequency laser of sufficient energy you can simply cause massive damage to the matter composing the target.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:46 pm UTC

The scope would of course be polarized against incidental reflection but a shutter that closes a split second before firing could be included as well.
Heck, if you have a reflex mirror you don't need a scope because you can sight through the laser optics in the barrel.
The battery doesn't have to be huge since you can let a bank of high energy capacitors charge up enough for a few shots while you get set up in your position. Even if the battery is the size of a shoe box it's not a problem since you can carry that in your pack and set it on the ground next to you when it's time to start shooting.
Is anyone seriously entertaining the idea of a significant portion of the laser's energy being perfectly reflected back from the target accurately enough to hit and injure the sniper at a distance of several hundered yards purely by chance?
Naturally this isn't practical for a weapon in an assault rifle role since those must be lighter and more robust than sniper rifle.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Jesse » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:26 pm UTC

It's cool guys. I'm about to get rich selling mirrored sunglasses.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dark Avorian » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:47 pm UTC

And your customers will still go blind :D
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Vieto » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:20 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
New User wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:
Vieto wrote:note to self: 1-watt lasers would go well on sniper rifles.


No, they'd be terrible actually. Just as you're getting a shot on your target's head, your target will feel a spot on the side or back of his head getting very warm and will move. Also, scuttlebutt has it that you can actually see the beam of these even without there being dust in the air, so the target's bodyguards are likely to see it, push him down out of your sight, and start shooting in your general direction.

If I blind the bodyguards with my 1W laser they will see no such thing.

However, their sudden blindness will alert them to there being something wrong.

Well, I was thinking of blinding the target before firing. They can't very well get out of the way if they can't see.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:24 pm UTC

And then they duck, move and shout. Your target is now a moving target when they were previously a stationary, silent target.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dauric » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:41 pm UTC

A sniping laser is only effective if you can bring to bear enough energy to flash-boil the water in the brain tissues after penetrating the skull. Relying on getting just the right angle for a shot through the eye in to the brain means you have to be in an ultra-precise position that's probably uncomfortably close to the target.

Now if you're using a laser to spot for an orbital kinetic-kill javelin...
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Kyrn » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Xeio wrote:Are you reading what you just wrote? This laser is NOT more dangerous than a gun, not even in the same ballpark (well, maybe the laser is at home and the gun in in the outfield somewhere). Gun > You get shot and die; Laser > Blindness/Mild Burns (which, to be fair, at least a few household chemicals can do if thrown anyway, unless those are also as dangerous as guns).


Guns requires physical ammo and accuracy and damage potential at distances falls off significantly. This doesn't use physical ammo, and has as much accuracy as you can stabilize your laser-emitting device, with much reduced damage fallout. It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Josephine » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:39 am UTC

Kyrn wrote: It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).

It's a beacon right back to you.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Mithorium » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:59 am UTC

Dark Avorian wrote:In other words, the laser would probably just make your gun asplode and blind/kill you in a huge flash of light

Avada Kedavra

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby BlackSails » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:02 am UTC

Kyrn wrote:
Xeio wrote:Are you reading what you just wrote? This laser is NOT more dangerous than a gun, not even in the same ballpark (well, maybe the laser is at home and the gun in in the outfield somewhere). Gun > You get shot and die; Laser > Blindness/Mild Burns (which, to be fair, at least a few household chemicals can do if thrown anyway, unless those are also as dangerous as guns).


Guns requires physical ammo and accuracy and damage potential at distances falls off significantly. This doesn't use physical ammo, and has as much accuracy as you can stabilize your laser-emitting device, with much reduced damage fallout. It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).


Guns work fine at long distances, they just tend to hit the ground. Air resistance will slow the bullets, but not by all that much. You can shoot many kilometers with the right cannons.

Lasers however, have to deal with thermal blooming, which limits their range a great deal.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:37 am UTC

Helpful link ahoy!
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l2.html
Seriously, check it out.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Kyrn » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:37 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:Guns work fine at long distances, they just tend to hit the ground. Air resistance will slow the bullets, but not by all that much. You can shoot many kilometers with the right cannons.

Lasers however, have to deal with thermal blooming, which limits their range a great deal.


Let me rephrase that then... I'm referring to handguns, not the kind of guns which would make you look suspect the moment you step outside your house because there's no way you can hide them. And also: long range guns would still be affected by gravity and air currents, which is what affects accuracy at range (that and recoil which affects accuracy between shots). Admittedly though with knowledge of bullet trajectory and estimation of air currents, their contributing factor into accuracy reduction is greatly reduced. Also admittedly I don't know how much of an effect thermal blooming would have on this laser.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:50 am UTC

Kyrn wrote:Also admittedly I don't know how much of an effect thermal blooming would have on this laser.


None, but it doesn't have the energy to cause instantanious damage either, most weaponised lasers do have issues with blooming if they're fired as a single collimated beam, most of the laser weapon research in the past 20 years has been finding clever ways to avoid this. Were you all aware that the US Navy has an active laser weapon system (consisting of a 1MW deuterium fluroide laser, which fires in 70 second pulses) which was tested on satallites in 1997. It seems no-one has given serious consideration to using laser weapons directly against humans, as 1MW for 70 seconds would fuck someone up, (and the laser could mount on a bigish class 2 HGV).
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:55 am UTC

If you think these things are dangerous now, just wait until Holtzman shields become available!
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Outchanter » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:27 am UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:A laser powerful enough to kill someone will destroy the reflectivity of any real surface instantly.

So I'm guessing it's impossible for the type of laser that uses mirrors to build up coherence to reach said power level without self destructing? What about semiconductor lasers?

nbonaparte wrote:
Kyrn wrote: It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).

It's a beacon right back to you.

So if someone blinds you, you just have to look back along ... wait.

Dauric wrote:A sniping laser is only effective if you can bring to bear enough energy to flash-boil the water in the brain tissues after penetrating the skull.

Why would a sniper need to cook the whole brain instead of just slicing through vital parts of it? Or through vital blood vessels nearby, for that matter?
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Kyrn » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:36 am UTC

Outchanter wrote:
nbonaparte wrote:
Kyrn wrote: It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).

It's a beacon right back to you.

So if someone blinds you, you just have to look back along ... wait.

Witnesses.
Dauric wrote:A sniping laser is only effective if you can bring to bear enough energy to flash-boil the water in the brain tissues after penetrating the skull.

Why would a sniper need to cook the whole brain instead of just slicing through vital parts of it? Or through vital arteries, for that matter?

Boiling is a lot easier (in terms of energy usage) than flash burning/explosion. Note that this doesn't actually require physically boring a hole through, radiation alone is sufficient.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Red Hal » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:41 am UTC

I have a proposed solution. The body of the laser is contained in resin making it next-to-impossible to disassemble without damaging the active components. The circuitry contains a gyro chip that only enables the firing mechanism after thirty seconds of immobility. This should allow people who wish to conduct experiments to use the device, but prevents any form of tracking a moving target (planes/people/incoming missiles). That should put paid to the majority of improper uses.

Additionally, the laser diode is contained within a spring-loaded mechanism which, if disassembly is attempted, crushes the chip.

Finally, whenever the laser is switched on, a lower-power laser mounted just off-axis fires first with a pulse that encodes the serial number of the laser.

Anyone wishing to register the laser for legitimate uses and pass the necessary background checks can buy a version with some, or all, of these features disabled or absent.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:59 am UTC

Seriously, check the link.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Ryom » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:52 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:...you need a license to carry a gun around...


Not necessarily. I can strap a gun to my hip and waltz around town, no license needed. Pennsylvania is an open-carry state, and a must-issue CCW state. The only place this isn't true is in Philadelphia. If however, you want to carry the gun without a CCW in a car, you must keep it in a gun case in the trunk. With a CCW you can keep in on your person in a vehicle.

Other states vary of course, but PA isn't the only open-carry state.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:29 am UTC

Ryom wrote:
meatyochre wrote:...you need a license to carry a gun around...


Not necessarily. I can strap a gun to my hip and waltz around town, no license needed. Pennsylvania is an open-carry state, and a must-issue CCW state. The only place this isn't true is in Philadelphia. If however, you want to carry the gun without a CCW in a car, you must keep it in a gun case in the trunk. With a CCW you can keep in on your person in a vehicle.

Other states vary of course, but PA isn't the only open-carry state.


Almost all states have some level of open carry provision, normaly subject to some pretty awkward limitations. That's not to say that open carry wouldn't get you a lot of unwanted attention in many places.

Tangential question:- if you're routinely carrying a gun (conceled or openly) what do you do when you want to collect your child from school or visit the bank?
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:33 am UTC

Outchanter wrote:
Glass Fractal wrote:A laser powerful enough to kill someone will destroy the reflectivity of any real surface instantly.

So I'm guessing it's impossible for the type of laser that uses mirrors to build up coherence to reach said power level without self destructing? What about semiconductor lasers?


No, all very powerful chemical lasers use mirrors and a lasing medium, the difference is the reflective surfaces are optically perfect, and made of material selected for low or zero absorbance in the frequency range of the laser's discharge.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Ryom » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:36 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
Ryom wrote:
meatyochre wrote:Tangential question:- if you're routinely carrying a gun (conceled or openly) what do you do when you want to collect your child from school or visit the bank?


Leave it at home if you are planning to be somewhere that guns are forbidden, or in a gun case in your trunk. Otherwise you explain you are carrying and check your gun in with the administration or security of the building where they are forbidden and collect it when you leave.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Lewton » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:37 pm UTC

This would be great for killing insects

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:26 pm UTC

No it wouldn't.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby The Reaper » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:09 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:No it wouldn't.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/ ... toes-dead/
Touche!

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:12 pm UTC

Yeah, it'd kill them if by some chance you happen to get them but you'd also blind yourself and anybody else in the room.
Not 'great'.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby The Reaper » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:15 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Yeah, it'd kill them if by some chance you happen to get them but you'd also blind yourself and anybody else in the room.
Not 'great'.

I can just imagine, a humid houston evening, sittin on the back porch in the dark, with laser glasses on, and a cold beer in the hand, watching WW2 get reenacted in the backyard with mosquitos. PewPew!


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