High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Time

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High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Time

Postby Chfan » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:11 pm UTC

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10211/1076338-455.stm

I...I honestly don't know what to say. This is just too horrible.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:54 pm UTC

Know what one of the most horrible things is? This text:
"im soo sry i didn't mean 2 make u cry. i'm cant believe i just raped u well bout time u read dis i mite b dead."

sry i raep u lololol.

That aside, this Dr. Ghilani character is terrible, and I hope that they press criminal as well as civil charges against him. I don't see how forcing a girl to act as rape bait can possibly be legal.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:08 pm UTC

Read the article; seriously? I mean, wouldn't let the girl leave the school grounds? Did the administrator think he was going to be hailed as a hero for the best-case scenario catching a rapist by endangering a student? I think he watched too many action movies.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Chen » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:38 pm UTC

How can you not let the girl leave school, yet not know where she is? What kind of idiot principal is this?

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Dauric » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:56 pm UTC

Read the article again. The principal thought that this was consensual sex with teenage angst/drama, not rape, and that his ill-conceived "sting" operation was going to lead to a den of teenage immorality.

This wan't an attempt to find a rapist on the school campus, it was an attempt to bring old-fashioned* morality to his school by finding a bunch of juvenile miscreants with proof of their roman orgy, and then sending them home with a note for their parents.

*by old-fashioned I mean from a mythical morality portrayed in any 1950's TV sitcom

Of course the school's security is manned by any policeman in an episode of The Benny Hill Show, so the entire "contingency plan" failed on account of the fact that security didn't find anything, making the whole routine backfire like the Keystone Kops' overloaded patrol car.

Edit:

Actually I'm being harsher on the security than is fair. They're just regular building security people, not detectives. It was the principal, in the execution of his utterly bone-headed and inappropriate idea, that thought building security should have been CIA operatives.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:13 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:This wan't an attempt to find a rapist on the school campus, it was an attempt to bring old-fashioned* morality to his school by finding a bunch of juvenile miscreants with proof of their roman orgy, and then sending them home with a note for their parents..

He also said that the plans wouldn't have changed whether the sex was consensual or nonconsensual. So basically the principal is a reprehensible human being

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby big boss » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:16 pm UTC

If this story is true, the principal is a horrible person and charges civil and criminal should be filed. But lets not be too hasty to convict him yet, we don't know all the facts and evidence, there might be something here to redeem the principal. It seems that too often here people are willing to jump on the bandwagon and let the media hype control them to tar and feather the an alleged criminal when we don't have all the facts and he has not even been convicted yet.

Aside from that, I am disgusted by this and really hope this girl is not too scared and will be all right and get the closure she deserves.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Duban » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:21 pm UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:...the principal is a reprehensible human being

Understatement of the year, and I’m also appalled by the below

...to find in its favor, arguing that the plaintiffs cannot prove the district was deliberately indifferent to the possibility that the student would be assaulted...


Deliberately indifferent? Even if they weren't indifferent there has to be some sort of charges that can be pursued as neglect in the same way a drunk driver is responsible for whomever he kills in an accident. The principle knowingly created a dangerous situation and failed to protect the students when it went wrong. If that isn't grounds for some sort of legal repercussions than I don't know what is.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Triangle_Man » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:51 pm UTC

Seriously? This is an incedent that should never have happened. I mean, on what planet is it acceptible to use a rape victem as bait in an asinine plan to capture a rapest.

...God this guy is reprehensible and stupid.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Levelheaded » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:30 pm UTC

big boss wrote:If this story is true, the principal is a horrible person and charges civil and criminal should be filed. But lets not be too hasty to convict him yet, we don't know all the facts and evidence, there might be something here to redeem the principal. It seems that too often here people are willing to jump on the bandwagon and let the media hype control them to tar and feather the an alleged criminal when we don't have all the facts and he has not even been convicted yet.

Aside from that, I am disgusted by this and really hope this girl is not too scared and will be all right and get the closure she deserves.


Hang on a minute there skippy. If it was posted on the internet it must be true. If we don't show our outraged on the internet, how will people we've never met and will never meet know that we are decent people in real life?

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby big boss » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:13 pm UTC

Levelheaded wrote:
big boss wrote:If this story is true, the principal is a horrible person and charges civil and criminal should be filed. But lets not be too hasty to convict him yet, we don't know all the facts and evidence, there might be something here to redeem the principal. It seems that too often here people are willing to jump on the bandwagon and let the media hype control them to tar and feather the an alleged criminal when we don't have all the facts and he has not even been convicted yet.

Aside from that, I am disgusted by this and really hope this girl is not too scared and will be all right and get the closure she deserves.


Hang on a minute there skippy. If it was posted on the internet it must be true. If we don't show our outraged on the internet, how will people we've never met and will never meet know that we are decent people in real life?



Obviously we will meet these people in the afterlife duh, and the opinions we held in this corporeal world will be used to hand down justice upon us by our peers.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Dauric » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:04 pm UTC

big boss wrote:
Levelheaded wrote:Hang on a minute there skippy. If it was posted on the internet it must be true. If we don't show our outraged on the internet, how will people we've never met and will never meet know that we are decent people in real life?


Obviously we will meet these people in the afterlife duh, and the opinions we held in this corporeal world will be used to hand down justice upon us by our peers.


And our peers would do well not to throw stones when their own houses shall be made of the same glass. I'd say that XKCD'ers as a whole will be doing quite well compared to much of humanity when it comes to bing judged on asinine opinions.

Speculations of the afterlife aside, The defense is not contesting that the principal's attention was drawn to the issue by ms. von Waldow (the teacher whom the girl reported the incident to) and Mrs. Waldow's offer to escort the girl -and others- to the bus. Rather the defense's position hinges on the principal's assumption that the relationship was consensual, and that the activity was not rape.
But in court documents filed by the school district, there are allegations that relationships between the boy in question and several of the girls who claim to be victims were consensual. The district argues that the girls liked him, and were jealous of the others.


It's not quite victim blaming, but only just.

So a girl comes to a teacher with allegations of rape, and the principal not only treats it as a case of adolescent drama, but puts the girl at risk in a 'sting' operation that the administration is not qualified to engage in. The defense's position is that this is appropriate behavior for a school administration.

Now sure, a school administrator has to walk the line between both sides of the story. It would have been just as heinous if the boy in question had been innocent, but was arrested on rape charges*, however that does not excuse the "Operation: Rape-Bait" tactics by the principal.

*this situation being a hypothetical in an alternate timeline since the boy confessed to sexual assault in court later.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby big boss » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:21 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
So a girl comes to a teacher with allegations of rape, and the principal not only treats it as a case of adolescent drama, but puts the girl at risk in a 'sting' operation that the administration is not qualified to engage in. The defense's position is that this is appropriate behavior for a school administration.

Now sure, a school administrator has to walk the line between both sides of the story. It would have been just as heinous if the boy in question had been innocent, but was arrested on rape charges*, however that does not excuse the "Operation: Rape-Bait" tactics by the principal.

*this situation being a hypothetical in an alternate timeline since the boy confessed to sexual assault in court later.


Im not saying that what the principal did was right in anyway, I'm just saying we should not be so quick to judge without knowing all the facts as is often done here when a story like this arises (and I'll admit I'm apart of this group once in a while).
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby mythago » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:14 pm UTC

1) The principal has not been charged with a crime. The article is about a lawsuit.

2) The lawyers for the school district ADMIT the 'sting' happened. They are arguing that there was no rape (despite the boy's confession and text message admitting rape) and that the lawsuit should be dismissed because the principal's actions did not meet a particular legal standard (I believe this is the 'deliberately indifferent' claim).

3) The school claims that it didn't learn about the rape until February 2008. However, in its Safe Schools Report submitted in June 2008, it did not disclose the rape as required by law - instead it claimed there were no rapes at the school in the prior year.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby meatyochre » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:16 am UTC

I'd like to start a fund to get their school some goddamn hallway cameras. Really, this shit happened in STAIRWELLS? My school was dirt fking poor and we had cameras installed more than 10 years ago.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:21 am UTC

We have cameras at my school but have had issues in stairwells as well. Ultimately, it's hard to have cameras everywhere inside the school. It's not like you can't commit crimes in bathrooms.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Lazar » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:23 am UTC

My high school only had cameras on the outside to catch vandals.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby kingofdreams » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:41 am UTC

our cameras disappeared overnight, it was hilarious
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Levi » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:48 am UTC

What is this "MOAR CAMERAS" thing? Was I just transported to the mirror universe?

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Kyrn » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:49 am UTC

Regardless, the principal is at fault.

Several issues.
1) Regardless of intent, the fact is that she was used as bait. There is no counter-arguments to this, the only question is what she had been used as bait for.
2) Even if she was being used as bait as a sting operation to determine if there is a "roman orgy" going on, is the principal allowed to do this? I count illegal restraint, without consultation from parents, without consent. Not to mention not reporting of the initial rape to the proper authorities.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Levi » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:49 am UTC

Kyrn wrote:Irregardless.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Kyrn » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:51 am UTC

Levi wrote:
Kyrn wrote:Irregardless.

Yeah, correct me within one minute when I was correcting myself. My bad. (actually, technically under one minute. What, refreshing the page every second?)
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Levi » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:52 am UTC

Sorry, I saw your post when I went back to edit my post because I thought I accidentally an article adjective.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby meatyochre » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:47 am UTC

Levi wrote:What is this "MOAR CAMERAS" thing? Was I just transported to the mirror universe?

The article stated that more than one rape occurred in a stairwell in the school. If there were cameras in the school, then perhaps the principal would not have felt compelled to instigate a "sting operation" to catch a rapist in the act (wtf is wrong with this guy?), instead he could have looked at camera footage and gotten it right the first time without putting the victim back into harm's way.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby netcrusher88 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:40 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:If there were cameras in the school, then perhaps the principal would not have felt compelled to instigate a "sting operation" in the bathroom to catch a rapist in the act (wtf is wrong with this guy?)

When you put up cameras, you drive crime to places where you can't. Which is potentially where there is less likely to be a witness.

Surveillance is an attractive idea, but threat profile vs countermeasure is an eternal arms race.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby meatyochre » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:45 am UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:
meatyochre wrote:If there were cameras in the school, then perhaps the principal would not have felt compelled to instigate a "sting operation" in the bathroom to catch a rapist in the act (wtf is wrong with this guy?)

When you put up cameras, you drive crime to places where you can't. Which is potentially where there is less likely to be a witness.

Surveillance is an attractive idea, but threat profile vs countermeasure is an eternal arms race.

Unless they have unisex bathrooms (seems unlikely in a high school), seeing a guy and girl go into the same bathroom at the same time from the hallway camera is sufficiently damning.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby netcrusher88 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:58 am UTC

Another gap in coverage then. Storage shed. Backstage. Under the troped bleachers. Or maybe somewhere that does have a camera, either that's been covered or destroyed or just ignored (most crimes are not well thought out). Deterrent aside, cameras are not preventative.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Kyrn » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:58 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:
netcrusher88 wrote:
meatyochre wrote:If there were cameras in the school, then perhaps the principal would not have felt compelled to instigate a "sting operation" in the bathroom to catch a rapist in the act (wtf is wrong with this guy?)

When you put up cameras, you drive crime to places where you can't. Which is potentially where there is less likely to be a witness.

Surveillance is an attractive idea, but threat profile vs countermeasure is an eternal arms race.

Unless they have unisex bathrooms (seems unlikely in a high school), seeing a guy and girl go into the same bathroom at the same time from the hallway camera is sufficiently damning.

Not all rape implies opposite genders.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby meatyochre » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

Kyrn wrote:
meatyochre wrote:
netcrusher88 wrote:
meatyochre wrote:If there were cameras in the school, then perhaps the principal would not have felt compelled to instigate a "sting operation" in the bathroom to catch a rapist in the act (wtf is wrong with this guy?)

When you put up cameras, you drive crime to places where you can't. Which is potentially where there is less likely to be a witness.

Surveillance is an attractive idea, but threat profile vs countermeasure is an eternal arms race.

Unless they have unisex bathrooms (seems unlikely in a high school), seeing a guy and girl go into the same bathroom at the same time from the hallway camera is sufficiently damning.

Not all rape implies opposite genders.

I'm referring specifically to this case, where it does.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Diadem » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:05 am UTC

This article just leaves me confused on so many grounds.

Why does the principle think the girl is having consensual sex if she comes to him saying she's been raped?
If he did think there was consensual sex going on - and only that - why did he act at all?
Since when can a principle force students to stay in school after hours
How do you lose someone during a surveillance action on school grounds? How big is that school?
Why is the school arguing that the girls have not been raped if the boy has been found guilty in court already?

The article is poorly written too. It's unclear to me how many boys were involved, or if the first rape and second rape were done by the same person. It's also not clear if the girl was aware she was being used in a sting operation or not.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Mother Superior » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:26 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:This article just leaves me confused on so many grounds.

Why does the principle think the girl is having consensual sex if she comes to him saying she's been raped?
If he did think there was consensual sex going on - and only that - why did he act at all?
Since when can a principle force students to stay in school after hours
How do you lose someone during a surveillance action on school grounds? How big is that school?
Why is the school arguing that the girls have not been raped if the boy has been found guilty in court already?


He's a prick.
He's a prick.
They can't.
By being an idiot and a prick.
They're pricks.

This might just be the most outrageous instance of incompetence and disrespect for the safety of students that I've ever heard of. What a piece of shit.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby JoeKhol » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:53 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:This might just be the most outrageous instance of incompetence and disrespect for the safety of students that I've ever heard of.
It might be but as the post you're replying to pointed out, the article is poorly wirtten making it very unclear. It also seems to be primarily based on the legal submission from one side which means not of it is necessarily unconditionally true.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Le1bn1z » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:11 pm UTC

mythago wrote:1) The principal has not been charged with a crime. The article is about a lawsuit.

2) The lawyers for the school district ADMIT the 'sting' happened. They are arguing that there was no rape (despite the boy's confession and text message admitting rape) and that the lawsuit should be dismissed because the principal's actions did not meet a particular legal standard (I believe this is the 'deliberately indifferent' claim).

3) The school claims that it didn't learn about the rape until February 2008. However, in its Safe Schools Report submitted in June 2008, it did not disclose the rape as required by law - instead it claimed there were no rapes at the school in the prior year.


No, he has not been charged with a crime, though perhaps he ought to be. Certainly he ought to be fired, and certainly he is culpable because:

1.) As a professional education administrator, he ought to have known the standard of care in case of an alleged rape, which is, in matter of fact, NOT to call the girl a liar, and tell her to seek out the alleged rapist alone in the back stairwells of the school, without notifying parents or legal counsel.

This is more than "deliberately indifferent" (he took none of the recognised measures to assess the validity of the girl's claim or to safeguard her in any way by, in fact, deliberately dissmissed her claim, and was indifferent to her claims and to the care she might need in light of the alleged trauma;

2.) This is aggravated by the fact that he was reminded of his professional duty and of the standard practice of care in such cases by his colleague, whom he deliberately ignored;

3.) Directly as a result of this negligence, the girl became a victim of a violent crime. As the principal had

A) A fiduciary and personal duty of care;
B) Certified professional competence in this area; and
C) Advice and information pointing him clearly in the right direction of action

The only conclusion is that he was criminally negligent and, in terms of this suit, was culpable for the harm caused to the young woman.

That the rape happened is hard to dispute: The rapist plead guilty to the sexual assault in court, and there is evidence supporting the claim.

The board's claim is that there is an elaborate conspiracy by which the young woman pretended to be raped twice and that the rapist is serving four years in prison so that the victim can "get at" the board. This conspiracy includes a written, pre-charge confession to the victim.

Further, they claim that the man couldn't possibly be a rapist because he was sexually active and popular.

If that's not proof of gross incompetence, I don't know what is. He ought to be fired for thinking that, alone.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Chen » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:33 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Since when can a principle force students to stay in school after hours
How do you lose someone during a surveillance action on school grounds? How big is that school?


I had big questions about these points too. How do you keep someone at school but then lose track of them? I mean do you just tell the girl she can't go home but is free to wander the grounds?

The article says a night shift guard sees the children at the school later on. Is this implying they really did lose track of people they were supposed to be watching?

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Dauric » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:00 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Diadem wrote:Since when can a principle force students to stay in school after hours
How do you lose someone during a surveillance action on school grounds? How big is that school?


I had big questions about these points too. How do you keep someone at school but then lose track of them? I mean do you just tell the girl she can't go home but is free to wander the grounds?

The article says a night shift guard sees the children at the school later on. Is this implying they really did lose track of people they were supposed to be watching?


Odd s are that after losing track of the girl, the guards kept looking until their shift was up and they went home. Later the one guy they hired to watch the CCTV to prevent vandalism saw them back on school grounds, but that guard lost track of them between the time it took to leave the security office and get to where he saw them.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby JoeKhol » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:20 pm UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:1.) As a professional education administrator, he ought to have known the standard of care in case of an alleged rape, which is, in matter of fact, NOT to call the girl a liar, and tell her to seek out the alleged rapist alone in the back stairwells of the school, without notifying parents or legal counsel.
The is no claim that the principal called the girl a liar regarding the first rape allegation. The article suggests that the school district said it could dispute that she had been raped. It doesn't say whether that was before or after the sexual assault conviction.

Le1bn1z wrote:2.) This is aggravated by the fact that he was reminded of his professional duty and of the standard practice of care in such cases by his colleague, whom he deliberately ignored;
That involves some reading between the lines. The submission claims the teacher offered to help the girls get home but the head teacher's response is not directly mentioned.

Le1bn1z wrote:3.) Directly as a result of this negligence, the girl became a victim of a violent crime.
I don't think you can demonstrate a direct link (though it could exist), especially with the limited and conflicting information available.

Le1bn1z wrote:The only conclusion is that he was criminally negligent and, in terms of this suit, was culpable for the harm caused to the young woman.
That's the conclusion the article is clearly aiming for. It isn't necessarily the correct conclusion were we in possession of all the facts.

Le1bn1z wrote:The board's claim is that there is an elaborate conspiracy by which the young woman pretended to be raped twice and that the rapist is serving four years in prison so that the victim can "get at" the board.
I fail to see any kind of claim for such a conspiracy. A plaintiff is making a series of claims and a defendant is challenging their ability to meet the burden of proof for those claims.

Le1bn1z wrote:Further, they claim that the man couldn't possibly be a rapist because he was sexually active and popular.
Again, not an accurate interpretation. There is a statement that some of the allegations of rape were in fact consensual. There is no statement that the boy couldn't be a rapist.

Le1bn1z wrote:If that's not proof of gross incompetence
There isn't any proof of anything, only claim and counter claim. If what was reported here were proof of anything, there wouldn't be any need for the court.

The key phrase is the last three words of the first paragraph (but applies equally to the school district); "her attorneys claim".
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Le1bn1z » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:32 pm UTC

JoeKhol wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:1.) As a professional education administrator, he ought to have known the standard of care in case of an alleged rape, which is, in matter of fact, NOT to call the girl a liar, and tell her to seek out the alleged rapist alone in the back stairwells of the school, without notifying parents or legal counsel.
The is no claim that the principal called the girl a liar regarding the first rape allegation. The article suggests that the school district said it could dispute that she had been raped. It doesn't say whether that was before or after the sexual assault conviction.


Ummm... yes, there is. The girl said she was raped. The principal claims that he believed that the sex was consensual, despite her allegations and the advice of a teacher. These are undisputed facts (a legal term for when both sides agree that certain parts of the story are true, no matter who you believe.)

The claim that the girl was not telling the truth about the rape, and had engaged consensually was the reason why the principal had used her as bait, according to his own version of events. So he would have had to of heard and disbelieved the girl in order to have taken the course of action he did. This is substantiated by the teacher. Unless you can think of a strong reason why she's lying..... I mean, not that you can trust women. They're always telling lies. Just ask the principal.

Le1bn1z wrote:2.) This is aggravated by the fact that he was reminded of his professional duty and of the standard practice of care in such cases by his colleague, whom he deliberately ignored;
That involves some reading between the lines. The submission claims the teacher offered to help the girls get home but the head teacher's response is not directly mentioned.


Actually, the offer constitutes a reminder of the professional duty of the principal, as that is one of the professionally competent courses of action. The principal overruled the correct and professional advice of his colleauge, thus deliberatly ignoring her advice.

Le1bn1z wrote:3.) Directly as a result of this negligence, the girl became a victim of a violent crime.
I don't think you can demonstrate a direct link (though it could exist), especially with the limited and conflicting information available.


Unless the principal is lying himself about having used the girl as bait and the teacher is lying about the girl having complained to her, then the use of the girl as bait directly and materially contributed to making the crime possible.

Le1bn1z wrote:The only conclusion is that he was criminally negligent and, in terms of this suit, was culpable for the harm caused to the young woman.
That's the conclusion the article is clearly aiming for. It isn't necessarily the correct conclusion were we in possession of all the facts.

Le1bn1z wrote:The board's claim is that there is an elaborate conspiracy by which the young woman pretended to be raped twice and that the rapist is serving four years in prison so that the victim can "get at" the board.
I fail to see any kind of claim for such a conspiracy. A plaintiff is making a series of claims and a defendant is challenging their ability to meet the burden of proof for those claims.


The principal and school board are alledging that a.) the rapist lied both when he sent the txt msg and confessed in court b.) he has done so in coordination of the lie of the alleged victim. This alone is the definintion of a conspiracy. That it might include the teacher only makes it that much more absurd.

Le1bn1z wrote:Further, they claim that the man couldn't possibly be a rapist because he was sexually active and popular.
Again, not an accurate interpretation. There is a statement that some of the allegations of rape were in fact consensual. There is no statement that the boy couldn't be a rapist.


Reading between the lines there. Or, actually, reading directly what the principal has alleged. He has alleged that many girls had had sex with the boy consensually, and therefore he suspected that the victim had also been a consensual partner.

The defense brief:

But in court documents filed by the school district, there are allegations that relationships between the boy in question and several of the girls who claim to be victims were consensual. The district argues that the girls liked him, and were jealous of the others.


in other words, the guy was popular with the ladies, a girl had sex with him and he directly said that he therefore discounted the possibility of rape.

Le1bn1z wrote:If that's not proof of gross incompetence
There isn't any proof of anything, only claim and counter claim. If what was reported here were proof of anything, there wouldn't be any need for the court.


Actually, it is. Whether or not there was a rape is immaterial on this one point. The principal did not follow recognised procedure in the instance of an allegation of rape. The defense alleges that:

He devised a plan to have school police officers follow the students in question to determine who they were and where they were going.

"Security personnel followed the students. Whether the sexual activity was alleged to be consensual or nonconsensual would not have altered the plan," Upper St. Clair said in its brief. "The plan to was to monitor the students and stop the students before any sexual activity occurred."


Soooo.... why did he suspect there was sex going on? Had he seen it? The only allegations of sex admitted by either side come from the complaints of rape victims, which he would to have had to have a) heard and b) ignored in order to even take action.

The key phrase is the last three words of the first paragraph (but applies equally to the school district); "her attorneys claim".


Nah. There are more key words. IMO, the defense hangs itself on its own testimony, in which it outlines in detail its absurdly indifferent and incompetent response.

The defense brief attempts to rest on a contention that the girl wasn't actually raped. But that's no defense for their incompetence: she could have been (I think she was, but that's besides the point) and the principal refused to take even the most elementary precautions and professional remedies for this situation and, in fact, did the opposite despite being reminded of his duties.

That's why, on the basis of the defense brief, the principal ought to be sacked for gross incompetence.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:37 pm UTC

JoeKhol wrote:The is no claim that the principal called the girl a liar regarding the first rape allegation.
the girl went to one of her teachers... and told her that a boy... had forced her to have sex with him.
According to a court filing submitted by the school district, Dr. Ghilani didn't believe that the students were in danger or that any safety concerns were present. Instead, he thought students were having consensual sex in school after hours.

It's unclear if the principle called her a "lying whore-bitch," but it is clear that he was informed of her accusation of sexual assualt, then rejected her reality and substituted his own.

Regardless of the circumstances, rape allegations should not be summarily ignored by school officials. "Allegations" that she "was totally asking for it" do not change this.

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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby Dauric » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:56 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Regardless of the circumstances, rape allegations should not be summarily ignored by school officials. "Allegations" that she "was totally asking for it" do not change this.


And ultimately this is what the defense is resting it's argument on. They're not arguing against the allegations the administrator used the girl as bait in an "I-Watch-Too-Much-TV" sting operation, Nor are they arguing against the allegation that the administrator dismissed the girl's allegations of rape because the boy in question was "Popular with other girls". The defense has confirmed these points in their own statements.

What the defense is arguing is that when allegations of rape came to his attention that it was responsible to dismiss the charge of rape out of hand and attempt to force a meeting between the people involved in an uncontrolled setting (or rather with delusions of control provided by people without the training and competence to keep control over the situation).

His defense is going to hang him at least as well, if not better than, anything the plaintiffs can bring to the courtroom.
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Re: High School Rape Victim Used as Bait, Raped a Second Tim

Postby JoeKhol » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:11 pm UTC

I thought I had a clearer understanding but I've read through the article yet again and have only served to confuse myself further. I can only revert to my original position that it is so badly written (or deliberately misleading!) as to make it impossible to come to an honest conclusion based on it.
Therefore, I think I am.


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