First possible habitable planet found

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:52 pm UTC

Stevie, being able to dead squat x weight is not a measure of your ability to subsist at higher g. I can bench 250; I could not have sex at 1.5g.
SummerGlauFan wrote:Oh, no doubt survivable. I was just thinking of the best way to acclimate someone to the extra weight. I remember when I first started doing long-distance hikes, and the extra weight the first time made me realize just how out of shape I was. :lol:

I remember a particular mile long portage in Algonquin Park, carrying approx 70lbs and being alright. I would not have been alright if I had fallen, but yeah, it's not an unheard of amount of additional weight.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:13 pm UTC

I don't think it's that simple, because you can't overcome low bodyfat with heavy protein supplementation.

However, as I said, we are approaching the limit of my knowledge on the subject. I just do with the 'Ripp (Mark Rippetoe) tells me to. And it works.

... I hadn't thought of sex. Hopefully, you'd develop hip flexors strong enough to overcome that with practice...

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Levelheaded » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:20 pm UTC

One thing to keep in mind, when considering a 1.5-2g environment, is that astronauts are likely to be some of the most fit humans on the planet. Current astronauts are fit and healthy across the board, and they don't come close to the standards NASA originally had for Gemini and Apollo astronauts.

Standard paratroopers typically operate with packs over 100 lbs, and special forces units regularly train and operate with packs and gear approaching or exceeding 200 lbs. If SAS & Delta troopers can do 20-50 mile forced marches carrying 200 lbs on their back, there is no reason to expect that astronauts going to a location that is known to have high gravity wouldn't be trained to at least that level.

Also remember that this 200 lbs is evenly distributed across the body. I have no idea how well current hiking packs distribute weight (i would guess rather well) but it's still going to be distributed on the top half of the body.

Finally, there is no reason astronauts would need to go from an extended period of 0 g directly to a 1.5-2g environment. That's actually the biggest concern I see - zero g weakens you a lot. Even without Star Trek type artificial gravity, there are many ways that the astronauts could be gradually acclimated to a higher g environment. Centrifuges would work. I would guess that the crew quarters could also be oriented so the deceleration and orbiting maneuver (remember, interstellar spacecraft) would gradually increase gravitational forces over a period of days or weeks.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:02 pm UTC

Hiking packs are designed to put the majority of the weight on your hips, which means they are distributed quite well.

Stevie, I don't think you understood my point; nutrition isn't the issue here, the issue is that being able to squat, once, 500 lbs, doesn't mean you can survive 1.5g easily. I mentioned sex because I can squat 2-4x my body weight, but I doubt I could cope with even 10m of intercourse at 1.5g.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:59 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Stevie, I don't think you understood my point; nutrition isn't the issue here, the issue is that being able to squat, once, 500 lbs, doesn't mean you can survive 1.5g easily. I mentioned sex because I can squat 2-4x my body weight, but I doubt I could cope with even 10m of intercourse at 1.5g.


Clearly this is something that needs to be tested with SCIENCE! :D
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:03 pm UTC

"Our test subject was able to hold the inverted wheelbarrow throughout climax L1-L4, but perhaps due to the angles involved and intensity of subject orgasm, found the dissimilar plowing centipede to be favorable for maintaining contact and averting contusions from climax initiation to completion."
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:39 pm UTC

My point was that, being able to squat 500 lbs - once, would mean you would have the required muscular strength to be able to stand up, and walk around at 1.5G.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:01 pm UTC

You should amend that to 'stand up and walk approx 15ft"
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:08 pm UTC

I can walk around without any real difficulty with a 60 lb pack. I fail to see how adding 40 lbs to said pack would make the difference between walking a mile and 15 feet.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby The Reaper » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:14 pm UTC

In before heart attacks due to the extra strain required to pump blood through your body at 1.5g...

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby nopacman » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:24 pm UTC

I wonder what the wind speed would be like in there.
edit for anti rerepost:
yes, i was assuming the existence of an atmosphere.
also, cool mumbo-jumbo on professor Steven Vogt's webpage: http://www.ucolick.org/~vogt/
even drawings!

also, one must take centripetal acceleration into account when calculating thepull on the surface of a planet if its period is of 36 days or so, i think
Last edited by nopacman on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:25 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:In before heart attacks due to the extra strain required to pump blood through your body at 1.5g...
BlackSails wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:With even a modest bit of training, a human could easily adapt to 1.5g to 2g.


Lifespan will be shortened, because of the increased stress on the cardiovascular system.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:26 pm UTC

Honestly, in high gravity I'd be more worried about other weather effects.

'Ah, good ol' high-gravity rain!"

Unless you meant due to the tidal locking, in which case, I'd be mildly surprised it had an atmosphere.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:34 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Honestly, in high gravity I'd be more worried about other weather effects.

'Ah, good ol' high-gravity rain!"

Unless you meant due to the tidal locking, in which case, I'd be mildly surprised it had an atmosphere.



I was thinking about that to.

Hail at 2g's would SUCK.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:40 am UTC

I brought this up at the dinner table and the first thing we spoke about was how painful pearl necklaces would be.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby The Reaper » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:52 am UTC

stevey_frac wrote:
The Reaper wrote:In before heart attacks due to the extra strain required to pump blood through your body at 1.5g...
BlackSails wrote:
stevey_frac wrote:With even a modest bit of training, a human could easily adapt to 1.5g to 2g.


Lifespan will be shortened, because of the increased stress on the cardiovascular system.

Curses! :\ How'd I miss that :(

Your bone density would increase a bunch if you lived on such a planet for a long period of time...

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Dark567 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:02 am UTC

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/30/10 ... et/?hpt=C2

CNN and some professor sensationalizing it though. 100% chance of life? It doesn't take a scientist to realize what complete bullshit that claim is.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Vieto » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:12 am UTC

Dark567 wrote:http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/30/100-percent-chance-for-life-on-newly-found-planet/?hpt=C2

CNN and some professor sensationalizing it though. 100% chance of life? It doesn't take a scientist to realize what complete bullshit that claim is.

Indeed. I'm optimistic, but even I still, I want to know the atmospheric composition first, among other things. If it has oxygen, then it likely does have life, but we haven't been told if it has any oxygen, only that it could have water.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Kyrn » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:23 am UTC

Vieto wrote:
Dark567 wrote:http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/30/100-percent-chance-for-life-on-newly-found-planet/?hpt=C2

CNN and some professor sensationalizing it though. 100% chance of life? It doesn't take a scientist to realize what complete bullshit that claim is.

Indeed. I'm optimistic, but even I still, I want to know the atmospheric composition first, among other things. If it has oxygen, then it likely does have life, but we haven't been told if it has any oxygen, only that it could have water.


Of course, getting oxygen from water is easier than getting water from oxygen.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Wnderer » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:32 am UTC

It's only 20 light years away. We could send a message and get reply in only 40 years!

My big problem with extraterrestrial intelligent life is how far away do they have to be to be irrelevant. And they would have to get Red Dwarfs to support life to have a even slim shot of finding any E.T.s. Here is a map of the 109 stars within 20 light years.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/20lys.html

Only six of the 109 stars are like the Sun. 78 are Red Dwarfs. Even if you count the Red Dwarfs, could intelligent life be one in a million? Scaling up the 100 stars in 20 light years to 1 million stars is almost 500 light years. William the Conqueror could have sent a message explaining all about the human race. The aliens wouldn't receive it until Columbus landed in America and we would receive their response back today. There are lots of stars in the sky, they come in all kinds of flavors and they are very very very far away.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SummerGlauFan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:38 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I brought this up at the dinner table and the first thing we spoke about was how painful pearl necklaces would be.


Lucky. If I brought this up around my family I'd get blank looks and the discussion would shift back to football or how much my mom hates her new digital camera.
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I knew from that moment that she was something special"


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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:48 am UTC

My girlfriend and her sex therapist cousin are an easier crowd. For some stuff.
To talk to.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Kyrn » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:48 am UTC

Wnderer wrote:It's only 20 light years away. We could send a message and get reply in only 40 years!

My big problem with extraterrestrial intelligent life is how far away do they have to be to be irrelevant. And they would have to get Red Dwarfs to support life to have a even slim shot of finding any E.T.s. Here is a map of the 109 stars within 20 light years.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/20lys.html

Only six of the 109 stars are like the Sun. 78 are Red Dwarfs. Even if you count the Red Dwarfs, could intelligent life be one in a million? Scaling up the 100 stars in 20 light years to 1 million stars is almost 500 light years. William the Conqueror could have sent a message explaining all about the human race. The aliens wouldn't receive it until Columbus landed in America and we would receive their response back today. There are lots of stars in the sky, they come in all kinds of flavors and they are very very very far away.

Sure, measure the existence of mankind based on how long we've yet to wipe ourselves out thus far. Some of us are more optimistic that we'd live for many years more.

Not to mention it's not just about finding aliens, it's also about finding more places to live in.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Wnderer » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:00 am UTC

Kyrn wrote:
Wnderer wrote:It's only 20 light years away. We could send a message and get reply in only 40 years!

My big problem with extraterrestrial intelligent life is how far away do they have to be to be irrelevant. And they would have to get Red Dwarfs to support life to have a even slim shot of finding any E.T.s. Here is a map of the 109 stars within 20 light years.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/20lys.html

Only six of the 109 stars are like the Sun. 78 are Red Dwarfs. Even if you count the Red Dwarfs, could intelligent life be one in a million? Scaling up the 100 stars in 20 light years to 1 million stars is almost 500 light years. William the Conqueror could have sent a message explaining all about the human race. The aliens wouldn't receive it until Columbus landed in America and we would receive their response back today. There are lots of stars in the sky, they come in all kinds of flavors and they are very very very far away.

Sure, measure the existence of mankind based on how long we've yet to wipe ourselves out thus far. Some of us are more optimistic that we'd live for many years more.


I didn't say anything about mankind wiping itself out. I'm talking about the sheer size, scale and variety of the universe. The stars are simply too far away. Also everywhere we look we see something different. All the planets in our solar system are very different from each other. How many planets do we have to look at to find another Earth? This new planet is more different from the Earth than Venus or Mars and they don't have biospheres. We have to find a whole lot of planets in a lot of Goldilocks zones before we hit pay dirt.


Not to mention it's not just about finding aliens, it's also about finding more places to live in.


We can't get there from here. We can't even hold a conversation with someone 20 light years away.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:16 am UTC

Wnderer wrote:We can't get there from here. We can't even hold a conversation with someone 20 light years away.


But we may do eventually. Personally, I like to think the way we're going to do it is by making people live crazy extended lifespans, either by regular rejuvination or by finding and pressing the pause button on ageing. What's a 1000 year round-trip when you expect to live to a million?
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby GoC » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:10 pm UTC

Take a very fat dude who weighs 300lb. Can he easily survive in the modern world? If yes then an astronaut at 200lb could survive in a 1.5g world.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby DrSir » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:29 pm UTC

GoC wrote:Take a very fat dude who weighs 300lb. Can he easily survive in the modern world? If yes then an astronaut at 200lb could survive in a 1.5g world.


Well, the 300lb. person's muscles are accustomed to supporting 300lb. of weight. The 200lb. person is not.
Just because someone in the world weighs 980 lb. (or something around there), doesn't mean you or I could support that much weight...assuming that guy can stand up of course.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:37 pm UTC

DrSir wrote:
GoC wrote:Take a very fat dude who weighs 300lb. Can he easily survive in the modern world? If yes then an astronaut at 200lb could survive in a 1.5g world.


Well, the 300lb. person's muscles are accustomed to supporting 300lb. of weight. The 200lb. person is not.
Just because someone in the world weighs 980 lb. (or something around there), doesn't mean you or I could support that much weight...assuming that guy can stand up of course.


Moot point really. Muscles would adapt.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby DrSir » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:10 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
DrSir wrote:
GoC wrote:Take a very fat dude who weighs 300lb. Can he easily survive in the modern world? If yes then an astronaut at 200lb could survive in a 1.5g world.


Well, the 300lb. person's muscles are accustomed to supporting 300lb. of weight. The 200lb. person is not.
Just because someone in the world weighs 980 lb. (or something around there), doesn't mean you or I could support that much weight...assuming that guy can stand up of course.


Moot point really. Muscles would adapt.


My point's just that you had to adjust to there. If you're heavy enough and/or weak enough and you can't stand on your own, it'll be difficult getting to the point where you can, so you can just exercise those muscles. Possible, but annoying.
And body structure in general, bone lengths and all that, work better with some weights and not so well with others. Someone slight isn't made of pounds and pounds, whether through more gravity or muscles to support against more gravity.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby stevey_frac » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:11 am UTC

DrSir wrote:
My point's just that you had to adjust to there. If you're heavy enough and/or weak enough and you can't stand on your own, it'll be difficult getting to the point where you can, so you can just exercise those muscles. Possible, but annoying.
And body structure in general, bone lengths and all that, work better with some weights and not so well with others. Someone slight isn't made of pounds and pounds, whether through more gravity or muscles to support against more gravity.



You'd be surprised how startlingly fast a young man can grow muscle. There are a number of workout programs that claim to be able to take your squat from 135 lbs to 300 lbs in 3 months.

They work. I've done one.

Also: A regular fit person would still be able to stand up in 1.5G no problem. So, you get there, you start a daily workout program, you throw on slabs of muscle, you move on with life in your new home.

You move north of 2G's, things would be really really rough.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby thedavidshot » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:50 am UTC

It really irks me to see people around the internet and articles on random fluff sites skewing this news in their article title so as to grab the reader's attention, such as something like "Earth's twin found!" or "First inhabitable planet discovered! Could population be imminent?1" The latter isn't a real article title, just an exaggeration to display my point.

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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SummerGlauFan » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:58 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:
DrSir wrote:
My point's just that you had to adjust to there. If you're heavy enough and/or weak enough and you can't stand on your own, it'll be difficult getting to the point where you can, so you can just exercise those muscles. Possible, but annoying.
And body structure in general, bone lengths and all that, work better with some weights and not so well with others. Someone slight isn't made of pounds and pounds, whether through more gravity or muscles to support against more gravity.



You'd be surprised how startlingly fast a young man can grow muscle. There are a number of workout programs that claim to be able to take your squat from 135 lbs to 300 lbs in 3 months.

They work. I've done one.

Also: A regular fit person would still be able to stand up in 1.5G no problem. So, you get there, you start a daily workout program, you throw on slabs of muscle, you move on with life in your new home.

You move north of 2G's, things would be really really rough.


Pretty much this. 1.5 G's will not significantly impede your chances of survival; at worst, they make the chances of minor injuries (say, a sprained ankle due to a slip that would be harmless on Earth) somewhat more common.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Rowadanr » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

Yeah, two days ago I walked home from a festival with a backpack that granted a bit more subjective G than on Gilese 581g (needs a more catchy name. Get on it, Vox Populi), though the distribution was a little different (and there you wouldn't have to worry about abrasions from the straps). As other people have said, I'd be a lot more worried about adverse weather conditions and accidents than the sheer gravity, at least in the near term. Your raincoat and umbrella would need to be armoured, and people would quickly develop a healthily increased fear of falling or dropping things. Any theoretical human settlers would probably put quite a lot of value on community swimming pools, at least in the first generation... It makes a fun thought experiment for an architect though, I want to have a play with this when the weather is a bit less lovely.
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:21 pm UTC

I'm wondering if it is truly tidally locked, or if there is a very small amount of rotation on the planet. If it moves over the course of millenia. Or if it is pink...
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:03 pm UTC

Rowadanr wrote:Your raincoat and umbrella would need to be armoured

I'm a fan of high gravity rain busting up a spaceship as much as the next guy, but I think 1.5g rain is going to be no more intense then a moderately high pressure shower. It's not going to require armor plating to keep you dry, maybe just a slightly tougher umbrella.
Rowadanr wrote:Any theoretical human settlers would probably put quite a lot of value on community swimming pools,

Agreed. My guess is aquatic sports would be a good way to get people acclimated to the weight change. It'd be weird; you'd be just as buoyant (right?), but swimming would still be more difficult (I can't fathom doing fly with weights...)
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:47 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Rowadanr wrote:Your raincoat and umbrella would need to be armoured

I'm a fan of high gravity rain busting up a spaceship as much as the next guy, but I think 1.5g rain is going to be no more intense then a moderately high pressure shower. It's not going to require armor plating to keep you dry, maybe just a slightly tougher umbrella.


For some reason this gave the a mental picture of people covered in plate mail during a rainstorm. It was somewhat funny.
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I knew from that moment that she was something special"


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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby Dauric » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:07 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:
Rowadanr wrote:Your raincoat and umbrella would need to be armoured

I'm a fan of high gravity rain busting up a spaceship as much as the next guy, but I think 1.5g rain is going to be no more intense then a moderately high pressure shower. It's not going to require armor plating to keep you dry, maybe just a slightly tougher umbrella.


For some reason this gave the a mental picture of people covered in plate mail during a rainstorm. It was somewhat funny.


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furyguitar
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:31 pm UTC
Location: New York

Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby furyguitar » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:59 pm UTC

And... now the planet might not actually exist at all.

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meatyochre
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 am UTC
Location: flying with the Conchords

Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby meatyochre » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:41 am UTC

furyguitar wrote:And... now the planet might not actually exist at all.

That doesn't mean we should stop building spaceships to reach it!
Dark567 wrote:"Hey, I created a perpetual motion device"

"yeah, but your poster sucks. F-"

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silent man
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:25 pm UTC
Location: Planet Y
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Re: First possible habitable planet found

Postby silent man » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:10 pm UTC

Rowadanr wrote:Yeah, two days ago I walked home from a festival with a backpack that granted a bit more subjective G than on Gilese 581g (needs a more catchy name. Get on it, Vox Populi), though the distribution was a little different (and there you wouldn't have to worry about abrasions from the straps).
Jinx is the first name that springs to mind, but there are plenty of names for high-gravity worlds in SF.

In the meantime, we should start changing/amending the Nuclear Test Ban Treaties, since that will most likely take more time than actually designing and building an Orion starship.


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