Racist Republican is Racist

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Plasma Man » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:08 am UTC

Here's a question for Jim Russell: If interracial relationships are only desired by those raised in interracial relationships, how did interracial relationships ever get started?

... Oh, that's logic, never mind. Logic obviously has no place here.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Lucrece » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:01 am UTC

The Republican party's been moving in this direction for quite a long time. It's silly to think that a large part of the voters won't vote him in-- we're talking the same populace that suddenly decided to ignore the existence of the 1st amendment Christian supremacists gleefully trot out all the time when it came to Muslims building their Islamic center.

Just listen to conservative leaders (i.e. talk show hosts) and tell me latent (and sometimes open) racism doesn't drip off their every rant.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Kyrn » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:03 am UTC

Plasma Man wrote:Here's a question for Jim Russell: If interracial relationships are only desired by those raised in interracial relationships, how did interracial relationships ever get started?

... Oh, that's logic, never mind. Logic obviously has no place here.

Probably that interracial relationships are started by the insane. Insane being how one would term people who goes against their desires. Duh. :twisted:
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Aikanaro » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:23 pm UTC

Kyrn wrote:
Plasma Man wrote:Here's a question for Jim Russell: If interracial relationships are only desired by those raised in interracial relationships, how did interracial relationships ever get started?

... Oh, that's logic, never mind. Logic obviously has no place here.

Probably that interracial relationships are started by the insane. Insane being how one would term people who goes against their desires. Duh. :twisted:

Or deviants. Filthy, filthy deviants :shock:
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby General_Norris » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:35 pm UTC

Aikanaro wrote:
Kyrn wrote:
Plasma Man wrote:Here's a question for Jim Russell: If interracial relationships are only desired by those raised in interracial relationships, how did interracial relationships ever get started?

... Oh, that's logic, never mind. Logic obviously has no place here.

Probably that interracial relationships are started by the insane. Insane being how one would term people who goes against their desires. Duh. :twisted:

Or deviants. Filthy, filthy deviants :shock:

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Rackum » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:24 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:No intermarriages and no masturbation. Aren't they supposed to be against big brother and supportive of our freedoms?

I thought I could make a better joke out of that but I'm hungry and shut up!


Once upon a time the Republican party was for small government, personal privacy, etc, etc. However, when the leaders of the Republican party made the ill-fated decision to add "anti-abortion" to their platform in an effort to mobilize the voting power of the Evangelical Christian contingent (which up to that time had been fairly divided politically, or just didn't care about politics) they enslaved themselves to a group that would increasingly dictate the direction of the party. The Republican party was basically blackmailed into pushing the agenda (mostly "moral" legislation) of the morally conservative right.

Always reminds me of "Baba O'Riley." I was a Republican, but the shift away from fiscal issues and the focus on moral regulations forced me to leave that behind -- the only party now that is concerned with personal liberty would be the Libertarians (which is what I consider myself now).

Edit: Also, this guy is a stark-raving mad lunatic that, while he easily got nominated by people very similar to him, will get crushed in the actual election ... at least that's what I'm hoping. <fingers crossed>

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby PeterCai » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:46 pm UTC

who is this i don't even

although, he's removed from the general election. i guess even the republican party think he is too insane.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:00 pm UTC

In fairness to the Republican Party, they've been disavowing this guy up and down.

On the other hand, anyone who tells you that this isn't the natural consequence of the GOP's trademark tolerance for racism within its ranks (specifically for the past two years) is either on the Party's payroll, a fool, or both.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby GoC » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:31 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:Racism is not limited to calling one race inferior and another superior. Fredrickson's definition, I feel, is useful here.

The narrower the definition of a word the better IMHO.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Nordic Einar » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:22 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:Racism is not limited to calling one race inferior and another superior. Fredrickson's definition, I feel, is useful here.

The narrower the definition of a word the better IMHO.


Yeah, it helps us white people deny the institutional/cultural racism all around us by projecting it all onto a "boogieman" supremacist. Suddenly, we're post-racial!

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Vaniver » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:27 pm UTC

Wouldn't the narrowest definition of racism (using narrow in the sense of 'compact' not 'rarely applicable') be "decisions based on race" not "decisions based on the superiority and inferiority of a race"? (You could instead use "decisions unfairly based on race" if you want to add a moral dimension and cut out valid racism)
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby lesliesage » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:34 pm UTC

You could say that racism most narrowly means "decisions based on race." Does anyone use the word like that? Very rarely. So why would it mean that? Aren't words given meaning by how we use them? You could also say racism most narrowly means "presuming the superiority of a race." You could also say it most narrowly means "an act of racial prejudice." Those are much more common usages. It's a subjective opinion about what gives a word meaning: how people use it versus how Romans used its constituent parts. I tend toward the former, but whatever.

My advice: if anyone finds themselves in an argument where they (or someone else) is pretending that a word only has one meaning, then just stop. Because words have lots of meanings. They actually number them, right there in the dictionary.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby M.C. » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:16 pm UTC

What possible reason could someone have for being against interracial couples than racial prejudice?

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:56 am UTC

That you even have to ask that! Some oppressor you are.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Kyrn » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:34 am UTC

M.C. wrote:What possible reason could someone have for being against interracial couples than racial prejudice?

Plenty if you consider a rigid (and hence easily regulated) societal structure as a good reason.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby phonon266737 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:44 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:The Republican party's been moving in this direction for quite a long time. It's silly to think that a large part of the voters won't vote him in-- we're talking the same populace that suddenly decided to ignore the existence of the 1st amendment Christian supremacists gleefully trot out all the time when it came to Muslims building their Islamic center.


Freedom of expression does not apply to property. My mom can have her deck stained only one of four colors. My dad needs his new shed approved at a town hall meeting. I can't park a car on the grass in front of my house. You can complain to the township about your neighbors. If the people around the mosque don't want it built, it really shouldn't be built. Just like the dentist across the street from me wants to buy a nearby house and expand into it. It got voted on at town hall, and the people there said no. Well over a hundred came to tell the township they did not want the dentist allowed to expand.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby PeterCai » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:06 am UTC

phonon266737 wrote:
Lucrece wrote:The Republican party's been moving in this direction for quite a long time. It's silly to think that a large part of the voters won't vote him in-- we're talking the same populace that suddenly decided to ignore the existence of the 1st amendment Christian supremacists gleefully trot out all the time when it came to Muslims building their Islamic center.


Freedom of expression does not apply to property. My mom can have her deck stained only one of four colors. My dad needs his new shed approved at a town hall meeting. I can't park a car on the grass in front of my house. You can complain to the township about your neighbors. If the people around the mosque don't want it built, it really shouldn't be built. Just like the dentist across the street from me wants to buy a nearby house and expand into it. It got voted on at town hall, and the people there said no. Well over a hundred came to tell the township they did not want the dentist allowed to expand.

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THAT'S EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:22 am UTC

phonon266737 wrote:
Lucrece wrote:The Republican party's been moving in this direction for quite a long time. It's silly to think that a large part of the voters won't vote him in-- we're talking the same populace that suddenly decided to ignore the existence of the 1st amendment Christian supremacists gleefully trot out all the time when it came to Muslims building their Islamic center.


Freedom of expression does not apply to property. My mom can have her deck stained only one of four colors. My dad needs his new shed approved at a town hall meeting. I can't park a car on the grass in front of my house. You can complain to the township about your neighbors. If the people around the mosque don't want it built, it really shouldn't be built. Just like the dentist across the street from me wants to buy a nearby house and expand into it. It got voted on at town hall, and the people there said no. Well over a hundred came to tell the township they did not want the dentist allowed to expand.


So you only have freedom of speech if you are on public land?
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby phonon266737 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:48 am UTC

No, but speech, and building something, are different. We have things like zoning, town planners, homeowners associations, building codes, etc etc etc. There are many, many laws with regard to what you can and cannot do with real estate. Some of those laws require approval by a board of elected officials who make decisions based on those they represent, which may not even include the person who wants to build a particular building.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:03 am UTC

phonon266737 wrote:No, but speech, and building something, are different. We have things like zoning, town planners, homeowners associations, building codes, etc etc etc. There are many, many laws with regard to what you can and cannot do with real estate. Some of those laws require approval by a board of elected officials who make decisions based on those they represent, which may not even include the person who wants to build a particular building.


and I would argue that outside of safety regulations, those are violations of property rights.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:10 am UTC

I would argue the same.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:33 am UTC

First of all, the people who actually live in Manhattan aren't opposed to the Park51 Center. Second, there was a federal law enacted under George Bush that made it illegal to use zoning to block the construction of places of worship.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby phonon266737 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:32 pm UTC

Interesting point on the 2000 law.
Personally, I don't care that much. What bothers me the most is an interview I saw where Rauf said, very clearly: If I knew this sort of controversy would have started, I never would have done this. Never.

Well, the good news is, you haven't done it yet. Regardless of legal standing, this building in unpopular with Americans. Given the current state of the law, they should be able to build Park51. But, when you doing something unpopular, people like you less, and (personaly) unless there is some reason why the site is of particular religious importance, I don't understand the purpose of enduring the unpopularity and forcing it through. Becaue of this, apparently the cool thing to do, now, is to protest the construction of ANY mosque ANYWHERE (wtf?) But sometimes you have to do the wrong thing so as to not spark angry mobs with pitchforks and torches.


Back to the topic at hand, it's guys like this that make conservatives look like morons. The proper stance would be to not talk about this stuff in the first place, because no one cares.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:00 pm UTC

phonon266737 wrote:Interesting point on the 2000 law.
Personally, I don't care that much. What bothers me the most is an interview I saw where Rauf said, very clearly: If I knew this sort of controversy would have started, I never would have done this. Never.

Well, the good news is, you haven't done it yet. Regardless of legal standing, this building in unpopular with Americans. Given the current state of the law, they should be able to build Park51. But, when you doing something unpopular, people like you less, and (personaly) unless there is some reason why the site is of particular religious importance, I don't understand the purpose of enduring the unpopularity and forcing it through. Becaue of this, apparently the cool thing to do, now, is to protest the construction of ANY mosque ANYWHERE (wtf?) But sometimes you have to do the wrong thing so as to not spark angry mobs with pitchforks and torches.


Back to the topic at hand, it's guys like this that make conservatives look like morons. The proper stance would be to not talk about this stuff in the first place, because no one cares.


Honestly, I think he is full of it. He said he had no idea building a mosque near ground zero might cause controversy; and now he "has" to do it because backing down would make the terrorists hate us more.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:26 pm UTC

Because while the memory of people's objections to it will fade away, the fact of an Islamic cultural center being successfully blocked by bigots who decided it wasn't American enough would have sent an irreversible message that America is at war with Islam. It's not like there are numerous terrorist organizations that share that notion as their foundational premise, though, right?

You're blaming the imam for the rash of anti-Muslim activity-- some of it violent-- that came in the wake of this completely fucking stupid controversy? Not, for instance, the craven fuckheads who had no objection to the Park51 Center when it was announced but who were more than willing to exploit the ginned-up outrage once they realized that there was money to be made/raised?

Why don't you blame James Madison? He's the one who started this all with that pesky Establishment Clause.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:26 pm UTC

The American Republican Party; defending free speech so long as they are okay with it.

(Seriously, that party needs to kick the nutters out.)
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Me321 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:59 am UTC

Wow you found a crazy Republican running for office, would you like me to point out a crazy Democrat running for office?

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:46 am UTC

Me321 wrote:Wow you found a crazy Republican running for office, would you like me to point out a crazy Democrat running for office?


Please. Crazy people running for office are somewhat fun to laugh at.

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:39 pm UTC

Me321 wrote:Wow you found a crazy Republican running for office, would you like me to point out a crazy Democrat running for office?

Okay...so what? The existence of crazy Democrats doesn't make the crazy Republican any less crazy. I always found this kind of response to be disingenuous.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:56 pm UTC

Moreover, I defy you to find a Democrat-- who actually won a primary this year-- with a crazy level that approaches white separatism.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Belial » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:35 pm UTC

EsotericWombat wrote:Moreover, I defy you to find a Democrat-- who actually won a primary this year-- with a crazy level that approaches white separatism.


Note that malignant crazy counts for twice the points of benevolent, harmless crazy.

So to match "I believe that finches prove that black people and white people shouldn't marry", you're going to need to do better than "I believe that little green men visit me in my sleep". You're going to have to step your game up to "I believe that little green men visit me in my sleep, and they told me that whipped cream is an affront to the god-machine on venus and must be banned"
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Garm » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:46 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
Me321 wrote:Wow you found a crazy Republican running for office, would you like me to point out a crazy Democrat running for office?

Okay...so what? The existence of crazy Democrats doesn't make the crazy Republican any less crazy. I always found this kind of response to be disingenuous.


It's basically a false equivalency that helps Conservatives sleep at night. They're essentially saying "we may be the lords of nuthouse but that guy wearing slippers at the grocery store is bonkers!"
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Spambot5546 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

Personally i'm surprised that there are any conservatives willing to defend Republicans. I don't.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:13 pm UTC

Especially considering many Republicans are not truly conservative in any way shape or form.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:17 pm UTC

And they totally aren't Scotsmen, either.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:22 pm UTC

There is a difference between saying that not all Republicans are Conservatives, and no Republican acts as a Conservative Proxy.

I'm a social progressive, fiscal conservative. I prefer it when the Government stays out of my bedroom, but takes proper care of fiscal responsibility. That doesn't mean that I don't approve of spending money to support people in need, I'm one of those in need currently thanks to crippling student loan debt. I'd say that lines me up with fiscal conservative thinking, but the Republicans do not even come close to being a good stand in for that.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby GoC » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:11 pm UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:
GoC wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:Racism is not limited to calling one race inferior and another superior. Fredrickson's definition, I feel, is useful here.

The narrower the definition of a word the better IMHO.


Yeah, it helps us white people deny the institutional/cultural racism all around us by projecting it all onto a "boogieman" supremacist. Suddenly, we're post-racial!

As a general rule a narrower word is more useful as you're less likely to get confused over which of the various properties (such as "makes racist jokes") the element (in this case person) in question has.

Vaniver wrote:Wouldn't the narrowest definition of racism (using narrow in the sense of 'compact' not 'rarely applicable') be "decisions based on race" not "decisions based on the superiority and inferiority of a race"? (You could instead use "decisions unfairly based on race" if you want to add a moral dimension and cut out valid racism)

The problem with that is the incredible subjectiveness of "fair" removes the solid link we like to have between "racist" and "evil".

For instance, the lack of interracial marriages is very strong evidence that everyone makes decisions based upon race. Is this fair?

lesliesage wrote:You could say that racism most narrowly means "decisions based on race." Does anyone use the word like that? Very rarely. So why would it mean that? Aren't words given meaning by how we use them? You could also say racism most narrowly means "presuming the superiority of a race." You could also say it most narrowly means "an act of racial prejudice." Those are much more common usages. It's a subjective opinion about what gives a word meaning: how people use it versus how Romans used its constituent parts. I tend toward the former, but whatever.

Pez Dispens3r's definition doesn't match up with the word's usage in my experience. Does it in yours?

My advice: if anyone finds themselves in an argument where they (or someone else) is pretending that a word only has one meaning, then just stop. Because words have lots of meanings. They actually number them, right there in the dictionary.

True but I like being able to communicate with people fairly unambiguously and thus try and cut down on the number of meanings a word can have in any given context (saying "John is racist" isn't very useful if you don't know which of the thirty meanings of the word "racist" is being used, you might as well just say "John is evil"...).
Note that we make associations we can't easily overrule (hence all the fuss about calling a transsexual "her" or "him" instead of whatever their preferred term is). Racism has a strong evil connotation and it's easier to define the word such that it will only be applied to actually evil actions than try and change the connotation.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby *bird » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:45 pm UTC

M.C. wrote:What possible reason could someone have for being against interracial couples than racial prejudice?


I'm not sure you meant to intend this, but it could be construed as being that interracial couples will necessarily 'solve' racism, and that's not necessarily true. Some couples in interracial relationships can still be prejudiced, even to their partner's race. Sets of interracial couples being more common than other sets tend to reinforce stereotypes.

That being said, this whole freedom of association thing is awesome!

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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby EsotericWombat » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:46 am UTC

There isn't really a way you can reasonably derive the notion that interracial couples destroy racism from what he said.
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Re: Racist Republican is Racist

Postby freaki » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:32 am UTC

Not A Raptor wrote:Once more, I am saddened by the choice between incompetent and insane.

I'd choose incompetence over insanity any day of the week.
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