Bullied kid fights back and wins

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Bhelliom » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:54 pm UTC

How about we go with "Dropped on his idiot head."

Clearly Casey is a hero for trying to dislodge the brain worms that are responsible for poor decision making.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:55 pm UTC

The move is called a "Press Slam". A lazy one, done by someone who doesn't have the arm strength to do a proper "Press" before the "Slam". But he Grabbed him, pressed him as best he could, and then used a combination of the little shit's own body weight and form to "Slam" him into the ground. Semantics aside, I've done that move a thousand times, and while he needs some training, he's got the size to use.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby zmatt » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
zmatt wrote:It was partially in jest. However if it were to happen and I responded by breaking the door down and forcibly throwing them out of my house I don't think there would be any problem.


Breaking down the door wouldn't be any problem, since it is your door. If your "forcibly" rose to the level of "physical assault", then you would be charged, or could be sued, and rightly so.


It's within reasonable force. I keep my doors locked, so they would have to break in to enter my place. They have already shown they are capable and willing to use force. So I can throw him out the door. And if they try to fight, which they probably will, then all the more justification.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

zmatt wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
zmatt wrote:It was partially in jest. However if it were to happen and I responded by breaking the door down and forcibly throwing them out of my house I don't think there would be any problem.


Breaking down the door wouldn't be any problem, since it is your door. If your "forcibly" rose to the level of "physical assault", then you would be charged, or could be sued, and rightly so.


It's within reasonable force. I keep my doors locked, so they would have to break in to enter my place. They have already shown they are capable and willing to use force. So I can throw him out the door. And if they try to fight, which they probably will, then all the more justification.


Under Common law, at least, you would be criminally charged in all likelihood. Self-defense requires that you or someone else to face an imminent threat to your person and have no reasonable recourse except violence. In this situation, you have a reasonable non-violent recourse: you can call the police. You are not in any danger of harm, nor, as we've constructed the situation, is anybody else. Simply because somebody commits a crime against you does not mean that you have the right to commit a crime against them.

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Dauric » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:16 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
zmatt wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
zmatt wrote:It was partially in jest. However if it were to happen and I responded by breaking the door down and forcibly throwing them out of my house I don't think there would be any problem.


Breaking down the door wouldn't be any problem, since it is your door. If your "forcibly" rose to the level of "physical assault", then you would be charged, or could be sued, and rightly so.


It's within reasonable force. I keep my doors locked, so they would have to break in to enter my place. They have already shown they are capable and willing to use force. So I can throw him out the door. And if they try to fight, which they probably will, then all the more justification.


Under Common law, at least, you would be criminally charged in all likelihood. Self-defense requires that you or someone else to face an imminent threat to your person and have no reasonable recourse except violence. In this situation, you have a reasonable non-violent recourse: you can call the police. You are not in any danger of harm, nor, as we've constructed the situation, is anybody else. Simply because somebody commits a crime against you does not mean that you have the right to commit a crime against them.


As Oregonaut pointed out earlier, it all depends on the localities defense of "Castle Doctrine" (from the phrase "A man's home is his castle"). Some places have very strong castle doctrine and you would be in every right to storm your own home to kick out trespassers with lethal force. (Oddly enough for all the publicity around Colorado's Make My Day law, Colorado only has a moderately strong Castle Doctrine. I think Wyoming and the Dakotas among others have "strong" C.D. statutes) Other places, like England, you have almost no castle doctrine at all and any remedial action must be taken by the authorities (which is arguably why "Squatters" is such a widespread phenomenon in England compared to most of the U.S.)
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:44 pm UTC

Finally got a chance to watch the video... The bully made a very satisfying thump, and I'm very impressed Casey restrained himself for as long as he did. That first punch probably would have set off my 'fight or flight' response, instead of waiting for the rest of the attacks.

The girl that stops the bully's friend you can see walking closer as the fight continues, and shes only really close once Casey decides to retaliate. My guess is that they are at an entrance to the school, since there is a kid who arrives on a scooter in the background who just stops and stares as the body hits the floor.

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

Honestly, I think the guy who was coming up for a "revenge fight" was just a poseur. He backed down way too easily. I don't think he wanted any of the Casey.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:58 pm UTC

I just noticed, they didn't even take their backpacks off to fight. What do they teach kids these days? (Ignoring the Casey, he clearly has been paying attention)

Also, I can't help but think of that song "LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR, LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR" when he does the slam. :D

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Роберт » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:09 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Honestly, I think the guy who was coming up for a "revenge fight" was just a poseur. He backed down way too easily. I don't think he wanted any of the Casey.

LOL, probably. He did have a more reasonable size match than the idiot little 12-year-old who thought it would be fun to attack Casey, but I don't think he was actually planning to start anything.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:13 pm UTC

Smile and look tough for the camera. Try to save face as to why you let your friend get thumped by the kid you were supposed to be "dominating". Swagger a little, because it makes you look like an ape. Then walk away.

Classic bully behavior.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby nowfocus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

Anyone seen the versions with TF2 sounds? They're hilarious http://img854.imageshack.us/i/7y1.mp4/
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

I only got physically bullied once, in 5th grade (it ended when I kicked him in the nuts), but my dad was bullied all the time in middle school. When his parents went to complain to the administration, some faculty member said to my grandparents "Maybe your kid should learn how to defend himself."

When you do defend yourself, you get four days of suspension. This isn't about the school's image, as school act the same way whether or not publicity is involved. It's about not wanting to think. It's easier for the school to assign blame to everybody than it is even for them to analyze a video of the events. The bullied kid used proportional force and was absolutely in the right: he was clearly assaulted multiple times, and once his opponent was incapacitated he didn't do anything further. In fact, I admire his restraint. What pisses me off a million times more than the bullying is the school's reaction: one might expect a child to be an ass without thinking about it, but it's the school's responsibility to dish out consequences fairly.

Also, protip to the bullies: you don't film yourself doing something bad.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

The Casey has already been compared to Zangief. While violence should always be a last resort, I agree with his use of it here.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

Agreed.

The history between these kids and the fact that Casey just took three punches before dropping that Bully would make him justified in that situation.

The punishments meted out were also fair.

Also, that Bully looked like he was in an extreme amount of pain after the piledriver.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:12 pm UTC

The punishments meted out were also fair.


Why should the larger one have gotten suspended at all?
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:14 pm UTC

Well, to my knowledge he suffered a torn ACL/MCL combo package. (That's a number 5, for those ordering.) I've also heard reports of a sprained knee instead. I don't have solid evidence either way.

sourmìlk wrote:Why should the larger one have gotten suspended at all?


Because he engaged on violence on school grounds. The Casey "is supposed to" walk away and tell someone in authority. Rules are rules. Stupid, asinine, but still rules. I've sat in the commander's office for dancing with a few subordinates who needed "formal education". Rules are rules.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:16 pm UTC

Because he engaged on violence on school grounds. The Casey "is supposed to" walk away and tell someone in authority. Rules are rules. Stupid, asinine, but still rules. I've sat in the commander's office for dancing with a few subordinates who needed "formal education". Rules are rules.


That doesn't make the punishment fair, it just explains it. If a woman is stoned in Saudi Arabia for, I don't know, dressing provocatively, sure the rules are made in such a way that that would happen, but that doesn't make the punishment reasonable. And before you accuse me of hyperbole, this child was expected to take a beating, according to school policy.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

Dear Luna, no. I'm not trying to say it's fair. Hell, I'd throw the bastard a parade if I had the facilities to. I'm thrilled to see someone stand up to bullying and give some back.

I'm just trying to explain why, since that was the question asked.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:20 pm UTC

I'm just trying to explain why, since that was the question asked.


It wasn't the question asked, but your misinterpretation of what I said wasn't your fault as the statement I made was vague. When I asked "why", I didn't mean from a rules standpoint, I meant from a moral standpoint. I thought this might have been clear by the fact that I was responded to a statement that the punishments were fair.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:22 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Well, to my knowledge he suffered a torn ACL/MCL combo package. (That's a number 5, for those ordering.) I've also heard reports of a sprained knee instead. I don't have solid evidence either way.

sourmìlk wrote:Why should the larger one have gotten suspended at all?


Because he engaged on violence on school grounds. The Casey "is supposed to" walk away and tell someone in authority. Rules are rules. Stupid, asinine, but still rules. I've sat in the commander's office for dancing with a few subordinates who needed "formal education". Rules are rules.


So I guess the rules aren't always fair, then?

However, I suspect that the school had to do it under some zero-tolerance policy for violence.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:23 pm UTC

No, he didn't deserve to be suspended. The only reading that may indicate "fair" is that rules being what they are, they had to follow whatever minimum suspension guidelines set forth by the school district for fighting on school grounds.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:25 pm UTC

Triangle_Man wrote:So I guess the rules aren't always fair, then?


But earlier you said that they were.

Triangle_Man wrote:The punishments meted out were also fair.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby mediocrist » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:26 pm UTC

I was bullied a bit in middle school. My dad found out one day and told me, "Never hit first, but if they throw the first blow, don't stop until they pull you off." Stopped being bullied soon after.

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 pm UTC

If punishment means physical punishment, then Casey slamming the shit out of the bully seems pretty fair. :wink:

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Triangle_Man wrote:So I guess the rules aren't always fair, then?


But earlier you said that they were.

Triangle_Man wrote:The punishments meted out were also fair.


Damnit, I wasn't paying attention!

Or responding to changes in the conversation.

Let's see...

Casey was justified in his actions. Unfortunately, his actions broke the School's Code of Conduct and he ended up being punished for it. From the school's perspective Casey shouldn't have resorted to violence, but at the very least the bully's punishment was more severe and the bully will hopefully reconsider his behavior in the future.

And I guess the rule is in place because they treat all forms of violence as equally bad, right?
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Dauric » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:34 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Because he engaged on violence on school grounds. The Casey "is supposed to" walk away and tell someone in authority. Rules are rules. Stupid, asinine, but still rules. I've sat in the commander's office for dancing with a few subordinates who needed "formal education". Rules are rules.


That doesn't make the punishment fair, it just explains it.


No, it makes the punishment bureaucratic. In the late 90's it became popular for so-called "Zero Tolerance Policies" towards schoolground violence to be instituted at the school-district level effectively removing any ability to make judgement calls at the school-administration level. These have been used to suspend kids for bringing plastic cutlery in their lunchbags for fear of being in violation of the ZTP.

Now as far as Casey's punishment being fair... There's no question that the little shit got what was coming to him, but he was dropped on his head which could have been -extremely- severe. (Un)Fortunately* it wasn't, but it's not a fighting technique that one can completely turn a blind eye to.

*depending on your point of view. I don't really give a rats ass about the bully, but if it had been serious Casey would have been up on charges. On the other hand the bully was picking on someone taller, more massive, and 4 years older than himself. Its like he was trying to get a Darwin if his age and method didn't disqualify him.)
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:35 pm UTC

And I guess the rule is in place because they treat all forms of violence as equally bad, right?


They treat all forms of violence as equally bad because the rule is in place. The rule is in place because zero-tolerance equals zero-thinking: they don't have to go through the trouble of actually determining guilt, they just get to have a reflexive response to every action.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:36 pm UTC

Well, if they had a history then I guess the bully assumed Casey wouldn't fight back.

He assumed wrong and felt the PAIN as a result.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby greengiant » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:37 pm UTC

I don't really see that a school has any choice but to have a 'no violence' policy. For one thing, there'd be endless arguments about who was the aggressor in any given conflict (he punched me last week, they were ganging up on me the other day, he was hitting my friend, etc) probably involving parents insisting their Johnny was only acting in self defense. Then even in the cases where there was a clear aggressor they'd still have to determine whether the response was appropriate which is a pretty big judgement call. On top of that if they encouraged/allowed violence against aggressors, there's a possibility (although I'm no lawyer) that they'd be liable in those situations. As in 'you told Billy it was OK to hit Johnny back and now Johnny's got a head injury'. A no-violence rule's not a perfect solution, just probably better than the alternatives.

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:40 pm UTC

greengiant wrote:I don't really see that a school has any choice but to have a 'no violence' policy. For one thing, there'd be endless arguments about who was the aggressor in any given conflict (he punched me last week, they were ganging up on me the other day, he was hitting my friend, etc) probably involving parents insisting their Johnny was only acting in self defense. Then even in the cases where there was a clear aggressor they'd still have to determine whether the response was appropriate which is a pretty big judgement call. On top of that if they encouraged/allowed violence against aggressors, there's a possibility (although I'm no lawyer) that they'd be liable in those situations. As in 'you told Billy it was OK to hit Johnny back and now Johnny's got a head injury'. A no-violence rule's not a perfect solution, just probably better than the alternatives.


Yeah, it's difficult, but it's the school's responsibility to watch over these children, and to treat them according to their actions. If they don't want to do that job because it's difficult, they shouldn't have taken up teaching / administration.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:44 pm UTC

Difficult, hell. It's damn near impossible with how handcuffed they are.

The parents of this little shitbag are the real criminals. I did what that little puke did and my father would've finished the damn job when I got home, then dragged my monkey ass to apologize and petition for the Casey to be free of punishment. I knew better. Not out of fear, but because my parents actually bothered to raise me. Yes, I knew the consequences (would never be the same). That doesn't mean I ever faced them.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby zmatt » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:49 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Difficult, hell. It's damn near impossible with how handcuffed they are.

The parents of this little shitbag are the real criminals. I did what that little puke did and my father would've finished the damn job when I got home, then dragged my monkey ass to apologize and petition for the Casey to be free of punishment. I knew better. Not out of fear, but because my parents actually bothered to raise me. Yes, I knew the consequences (would never be the same). That doesn't mean I ever faced them.


I have to agree. I wouldn't have gotten away with bullying. Quite the contrary, I was bullied in school and i was smart enough to kick the little shits ass away from school.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Dauric » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:50 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
greengiant wrote:I don't really see that a school has any choice but to have a 'no violence' policy. For one thing, there'd be endless arguments about who was the aggressor in any given conflict (he punched me last week, they were ganging up on me the other day, he was hitting my friend, etc) probably involving parents insisting their Johnny was only acting in self defense. Then even in the cases where there was a clear aggressor they'd still have to determine whether the response was appropriate which is a pretty big judgement call. On top of that if they encouraged/allowed violence against aggressors, there's a possibility (although I'm no lawyer) that they'd be liable in those situations. As in 'you told Billy it was OK to hit Johnny back and now Johnny's got a head injury'. A no-violence rule's not a perfect solution, just probably better than the alternatives.


Yeah, it's difficult, but it's the school's responsibility to watch over these children, and to treat them according to their actions. If they don't want to do that job because it's difficult, they shouldn't have taken up teaching / administration.


Easy to say, but it really only makes the problem worse. A big chunk of the issue with determining fault, or even being aware of bullying is that teachers and administrators are outnumbered 30, 40, or 50 to 1 in most schools. Take in to account that teachers have paperwork to do before/between/after classes, and that there's situations where students are gathered in the hundreds or thousands with maybe a dozen "Monitors" (admin or teachers, between classes, in multiple 'lunch periods'), it's just not possible for the existing administrators to effectively 'babysit' all those students.

There's people who do care enough about children who should get in to it, but teachers get paid a pittance and it's just not reasonable in a lot of cases unless said teacher has a spouse who is the 'bread-winner', or they're retired and on a pension, or they're independently wealthy.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:52 pm UTC

zmatt wrote:
Oregonaut wrote:Difficult, hell. It's damn near impossible with how handcuffed they are.

The parents of this little shitbag are the real criminals. I did what that little puke did and my father would've finished the damn job when I got home, then dragged my monkey ass to apologize and petition for the Casey to be free of punishment. I knew better. Not out of fear, but because my parents actually bothered to raise me. Yes, I knew the consequences (would never be the same). That doesn't mean I ever faced them.


I have to agree. I wouldn't have gotten away with bullying. Quite the contrary, I was bullied in school and i was smart enough to kick the little shits ass away from school.


My parent's threaten to Ground Me if I so much as utter a dirty word in the house with them around. If I'd bullied someone I probably would've been confined to the house outside of school for the entirety of elementary school.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:53 pm UTC

Teachers; the cause and solution to all of life's problems.

Or wait, was that beer?

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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Роберт » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:55 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:The parents of this little shitbag are the real criminals.

Probably. Sometimes kids are idiots no matter what the parents do, but if they really are suing everyone and everything over the incident, I'm assuming they aren't good parents.

Also, the other kids filming it clearly have problems. None of the kids seemed to be like "this is incredibly dumb guys, knock it off" until AFTER the Casey defended himself. The whole culture their is messed up.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Oregonaut wrote:The parents of this little shitbag are the real criminals.

Probably. Sometimes kids are idiots no matter what the parents do, but if they really are suing everyone and everything over the incident, I'm assuming they aren't good parents.

Also, the other kids filming it clearly have problems. None of the kids seemed to be like "this is incredibly dumb guys, knock it off" until AFTER the Casey defended himself. The whole culture their is messed up.


The kids should've stepped in, but kids are stupid and they may have been affected by mob mentality.

In terms of the parents, they should know better than this and should be making it clear to the bully that what he was doing was wrong rather then trying to sue everyone around them.
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Dauric » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:02 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Teachers; the cause and solution to all of life's problems.

Or wait, was that beer?


Why choose? Free beer for teachers!
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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
broken_escalator wrote:Teachers; the cause and solution to all of life's problems.

Or wait, was that beer?


Why choose? Free beer for teachers!


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Re: Bullied kid fights back and wins

Postby zmatt » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:13 pm UTC

I'm hoping that the lawsuit gets thrown out and the court sees this for what it is.
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