Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby sourmìlk » Tue May 17, 2011 6:41 pm UTC

Vaskafdt wrote:also, people are generally bastards to each other.. that's why we have wars and crime and all kinds of crap all over the world.. why should cops be the exception?


The implication was the cops were worse.

Vaskafdt wrote:you can officially refuse, but after it's noted you still get searched

What's the point of refusing then?
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Dauric » Tue May 17, 2011 6:41 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Lostdreams wrote:Loss of privacy is generally bad and like Belial said, the cops already have existing "ins" for collecting evidence. This just lets them run free.


And as dauric points out, obliquely: Cops carry guns and are empowered to use them basically whenever they think they sortof might be in danger. Further, nothing you can do gives you 100% control over when a cop feels threatened, or might say s/he does. Which makes any interaction with a cop a life-threatening one. Especially the kind of interaction where they're already kicking your door in.


My intention wasn't to be oblique, just citing a similar case of faulty reasons to enter with a force in a hurry, and with a much more severe outcome with less reason for police to assault the residence. Since I live in the Denver Metro the example came readily to mind.

Applying this ruling to a scenario similar to the Ismael Mena case means that the SCOTUS has 'opened the door' to a lot more potentially lethal scenarios where a home occupant may be getting a gun to defend their home against an apparent unknown intruder when police barge in unannounced on nothing more than a suspicion of drug possession, which they're not supposed to do as per the 4'th Amendment and I'd argue it's unreasonable to expect law abiding citizens to suspect that the battering ram being used on their door is wielded by the police.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue May 17, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:From the article:
the sounds of people moving and perhaps toilets being flushed could justify police entering without a warrant.


I think this is the key point here. I remember reading a study a few years ago that said eight times out of ten when a toilet is flushed, it is for nefarious purposes ie flushing away massive amounts of cocaine, heroin or goldfish. So when dicks police officers hear that tell-tale noise, they have to act immediately.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby natraj » Tue May 17, 2011 6:54 pm UTC

... I find it very difficult to believe that eight times out of ten, people are flushing away expensive drugs and not, you know, piss. Just when I think about the amount of cocaine in the world vs. the amount of bodily excretions produced daily. I find it far more likely that when someone's flushed a toilet, it might be possible they've just relieved themselves.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Belial » Tue May 17, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

Next you'll say that cell phones rarely look like guns.

Or that assaulting an officer's fists with your face isn't a common tactic of dangerous felons.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 17, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

natraj wrote:... I find it very difficult to believe that eight times out of ten, people are flushing away expensive drugs and not, you know, piss. Just when I think about the amount of cocaine in the world vs. the amount of bodily excretions produced daily. I find it far more likely that when someone's flushed a toilet, it might be possible they've just relieved themselves.


I think your sarcasm meter is faulty.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby natraj » Tue May 17, 2011 6:56 pm UTC

I'm just saying, I think that statistic is full of crap.

Just like toilets often are when you flush them.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Vaskafdt » Tue May 17, 2011 6:58 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:What's the point of refusing then?



you get the privilege of being detained until they get a higher rank officer to get out of his warm office, get into his car, drive all the way to where you are, (in the rain) and decide if he sees a probable cause. he usually does from what some of my stoner friends tell me... tho since I have nothing to hide, I choose to skip the wait.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Lostdreams » Tue May 17, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

Sewage treatment plants are the new drug storage facilities? It's more less likely than you think.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Dauric » Tue May 17, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

natraj wrote:I'm just saying, I think that statistic is full of crap.

Just like toilets often are when you flush them.


I think Rodion meant 8 of 10 times police hear toilets being flushed (through the door of a residence they're trying to gain entry to) it's for nefarious purposes, which makes more sense.

<Insert jokes about 80% bowel movements breaking weapons treaties violations here>
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby clockworkmonk » Tue May 17, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

Yeah, police creating their own exigent circumstances to enter houses without a warrant is bullshit. Why bother having a 4th amendment at all if this is how it is gonna get treated?
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby sophyturtle » Tue May 17, 2011 7:04 pm UTC

Oh Supreme Court, why you such a joke?
At least here in MA it was ruled that the smell of weed is no longer probable cause (since it was de-criminalized).
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Dauric » Tue May 17, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

Spoilered for OT
Spoiler:
Lostdreams wrote:Sewage treatment plants are the new drug storage facilities? It's more less likely than you think.


Nope, you had it right the first time with "more likely"
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue May 17, 2011 7:16 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
natraj wrote:I'm just saying, I think that statistic is full of crap.

Just like toilets often are when you flush them.


I think Rodion meant 8 of 10 times police hear toilets being flushed (through the door of a residence they're trying to gain entry to) it's for nefarious purposes, which makes more sense.


No, i stand by what I said. Next time I'll have to remember use those pesky sarcasm tags.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Lucrece » Tue May 17, 2011 7:37 pm UTC

Why do people keep blaming the court for this? If politicians fixed the legal loopholes to begin with, such decisions would be less likely to begin with.

Nobody's whining about how politicians cut pay to all state workers except police and firemen, and despite ample evidence of consequence-free brutality verdicts, police enjoy special legal protections and rarely face prosecution whereas any civilian would face stiff sentences. They just lose their job.

Blame society for eating up this fairytale that policemen are anything but little educated, lower class men/women with a thrill for "righteousness" and generous benefits and social position. Ditto for firemen-- except firemen don't get to be above the law.

If people don't mobilize and demand a system where the wolves aren't their own overseers, it's their fault.

Currently we have a system where police scandals cost the job of the overseer-- who most often was a member of the force himself-- so in the interest of keeping the job and relations comfort, findings are tampered with always in the police's favor.

They should just create an independent task force divorced from the police force that become the police's police (except they exert no authority on civilians, just cops) and is community-based and governmentally recognized with limited terms of service. Place incentives on successful convictions on the bad apples so that the policing remains aggressive.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby sillybear25 » Tue May 17, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Place incentives on successful convictions

So basically, you suggest creating an additional system which works the same way as the existing system to be placed on top of the existing system?

What the system needs are disincentives for wrongful arrests/convictions, not another layer of bureaucratic "oversight". As it is, it leads to a culture of "shoot 'em all, and let God sort them out" only you replace shooting with arresting* and God with the courts*.


-----------------


* most of the time... >_>
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby savanik » Tue May 17, 2011 8:20 pm UTC

Hmmm. I have been pulled over by police twice in last four years, and have never been searched, bullied, insulted, or otherwise mistreated by the police. They've always been quite polite, if slightly formal. I also haven't received any tickets, just warnings.

I suppose it helps that I'm polite to them and answer all their questions, and don't begin by assuming that they're harassing me because of the way I look/dress/think and demand a lawyer.

Oh, and I also try very hard not to, you know, BREAK THE LAW.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby broken_escalator » Tue May 17, 2011 8:22 pm UTC

savanik wrote:Oh, and I also try very hard not to, you know, BREAK THE LAW.

I'm betting you do it way more often than you think.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Lucrece » Tue May 17, 2011 8:24 pm UTC

sillybear25 wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Place incentives on successful convictions

So basically, you suggest creating an additional system which works the same way as the existing system to be placed on top of the existing system?

What the system needs are disincentives for wrongful arrests/convictions, not another layer of bureaucratic "oversight". As it is, it leads to a culture of "shoot 'em all, and let God sort them out" only you replace shooting with arresting* and God with the courts*.


-----------------


* most of the time... >_>


Something similar to when policemen get trained with tazers-- they get tazed themselves so they know what it feels like. Being subject to an organization that makes them feel just how they make civilians feel might change their behavior, empathy and all.

Policemen should be accountable to the people they serve. They should fear the people they serve, not scoff at them. Thus the community based oversight-- the civilians who come in contact with those cops are very likely the same who will hold a threat over them, so they need to be cautious.

Good luck with disincentivizing wrongful arrest/convictions when judging in favor of a wrongful conviction/arrest is already highly unlikely given that the cops are the gatekeepers to evidence (and by extension they can rig the case in their favor), and only the rich can afford lawyers with the resources to combat corrupt policing.


savanik wrote:Hmmm. I have been pulled over by police twice in last four years, and have never been searched, bullied, insulted, or otherwise mistreated by the police. They've always been quite polite, if slightly formal. I also haven't received any tickets, just warnings.

I suppose it helps that I'm polite to them and answer all their questions, and don't begin by assuming that they're harassing me because of the way I look/dress/think and demand a lawyer.

Oh, and I also try very hard not to, you know, BREAK THE LAW.



Tell that to Rodney King or gay people. Policemen have been in the business of oppression for a long, long time.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby skeptical scientist » Tue May 17, 2011 11:20 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Next you'll say that cell phones rarely look like guns.

Or that assaulting an officer's fists with your face isn't a common tactic of dangerous felons.

Yet sadly, most jurors will still believe the cop when he says that he was simply talking to the defendant, who then, out of nowhere, decided to assault the cop. At which point the cop really had no choice but to have smash his face into the pavement, with the help of three of his friends. Even when the defendant's version is backed up by two eyewitnesses.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby podbaydoor » Wed May 18, 2011 1:05 am UTC

stevey_frac wrote:Basically, cops aren't shinning beacons of humanity, making the world a safer place. They're government sponspored bullies with the right to carry concealed firearms.

Yes, tell that to the entire complement of troopers, cops, and National Guard that I spent all of today with, because of a national-level exercise in simulating earthquakes in the U.S. I'm sure the troopers at the next table over, drilling first-responder procedures and running simulation analysis, all to the purpose of finding problems with and perfecting disaster relief responses so they can aid and protect people the very best they can in the event of catastrophic natural emergencies, I bet they just couldn't wait to get out of that room and start bullying me out of my rights.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Seraph » Wed May 18, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:
savanik wrote:Hmmm. I have been pulled over by police twice in last four years, and have never been searched, bullied, insulted, or otherwise mistreated by the police. They've always been quite polite, if slightly formal. I also haven't received any tickets, just warnings.

I suppose it helps that I'm polite to them and answer all their questions, and don't begin by assuming that they're harassing me because of the way I look/dress/think and demand a lawyer.

Oh, and I also try very hard not to, you know, BREAK THE LAW.

Tell that to Rodney King or gay people. Policemen have been in the business of oppression for a long, long time.

Because when he was driving 117 MPH with a BAC of ~0.19, and refusing lawful orders from the arresting officer until a gun is drawn on him, Rodney King was a model of trying to not break the law?

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby sourmìlk » Wed May 18, 2011 1:25 am UTC

Seraph wrote:Tell that to Rodney King


Not the best example. This guy was beaten, but he wasn't exactly an innocent victim, what with his involvement in a high speed chase, while drunk, avoiding police because his drunk driving would violate his parole which he got for robbery. In that situation, I have much more of a problem with the police beating him than with him being beaten.

But I digress.

Anyways, to all people: let's not group policemen into a category of righteous beacons of the law or oppressive bullies. Seriously, it varies from policeman to policeman (or maybe more broadly from county to county, depending on how training varies.) This is a very diverse group full of people involved for their own unique reasons, it's probably not best to make generalizations.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Lucrece » Wed May 18, 2011 1:42 am UTC

Seraph wrote:
Lucrece wrote:
savanik wrote:Hmmm. I have been pulled over by police twice in last four years, and have never been searched, bullied, insulted, or otherwise mistreated by the police. They've always been quite polite, if slightly formal. I also haven't received any tickets, just warnings.

I suppose it helps that I'm polite to them and answer all their questions, and don't begin by assuming that they're harassing me because of the way I look/dress/think and demand a lawyer.

Oh, and I also try very hard not to, you know, BREAK THE LAW.

Tell that to Rodney King or gay people. Policemen have been in the business of oppression for a long, long time.

Because when he was driving 117 MPH with a BAC of ~0.19, and refusing lawful orders from the arresting officer until a gun is drawn on him, Rodney King was a model of trying to not break the law?


Rodney King was a victim of police bias, regardless of whether he broke the law or not. The point was that, if police dislike you for some reason, even if you didn't break the law, they have the capability to hurt you.

And seriously? The guy was beat up while lying on the ground by about 5 cops, who use batons on him while he was face-down. He was the poster boy for the white cop brutalizing black criminal face of police brutality.

Policemen don't get to beat people out of spite, sorry. Rodney just happened to be the perfect bait for the same fate that would've befallen any black guy at that time should he encounter the police, belligerent or not. He was a black guy, and that's all they needed.

If you want, substitute Rodney for anyone in the black community. The police have always been agents of the oppressive majority regardless. You'll rarely find any minority member who has anything good to say about police.

They just don't have a good track record at all with certain segments of society.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Levi » Wed May 18, 2011 2:28 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:I'm just going to casually insert this into the conversation. Probable cause is like magnets, how does it work?

this wrote:Observation – This is information that the officer obtains through their senses, such as sight, smell or hearing. This category is also used when an officer detects a familiar pattern of criminal activity that contains suspicious behaviors (i.e., flashing headlights, circling around a certain neighborhood.)

We're screwed.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby addams » Wed May 18, 2011 2:47 am UTC

Belial wrote:This means that even if the "cause" turns out to be bullshit, they can still use evidence acquired.

So, much like a cop only needs to drop something near your feet and claim it was yours or say after the fact that you were "moving furtively" to have an excuse to search your person, they can now claim they "thought they heard something" to lawfully search your house.

"Oh, what did you think you heard, officer?" "Eh, turned out to be nothing. Just like the other 20 times. But look at all this stuff we found."

But, I mean, to be fair to the cops, respecting peoples' constitutional rights is haaaard. Some potheads might get away and that makes them feel inconsequential and sad. Like their whole career of pursuing meaningless crimes with arbitrary force and absurd consequences was all for nothing. Really pulls the heartstrings.


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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby KittenKaboodle » Wed May 18, 2011 3:23 am UTC

Plasma Man wrote:So what they're saying is that if the police knock on your door, don't get up to answer it, because that would be the sound of movement, which would justify them breaking in. Just sit there on your arse and do nothing.

Yes. exactly!
SCOTUS wrote:And whether the person who knocks on the door and requests the opportunity to speak is a police officer or a private citizen, the occupant has no obligation to open the door or to speak. [snip] Occupants who choose not to stand on their constitutional rights but instead elect to attempt to destroy evidence have only themselves to blame for the warrantless exigent-circumstances search that may ensue.
Just be sure to stand very still when standing on your constitutional rights. When we say you have the right to remain silent, we mean silent!

But then this is the same group that said (slightly edited): "In this case, we see no evidence that the officers either violated the Fourth Amendment or threatened to do so prior to the point when they entered the apartment violated the Fourth Amendment."

And I don't see any evidence that the tautology club existed before the tautology club existed.

Source: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-1272.pdf

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Sockmonkey » Wed May 18, 2011 4:08 am UTC

Unfortunately as long as there are a significant number of bad cops, and the police can get away with anything, you can't afford to trust any of them since you can't pick out the bad ones untill after the fact.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby CorruptUser » Wed May 18, 2011 4:18 am UTC

Wasn't there a movie about a cop who was stalking some married woman, using his powers as a cop to do so?

Also, is that a foxtrot character I see in the tautology club? The third from the left.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Prefanity » Wed May 18, 2011 4:23 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Wasn't there a movie about a cop who was stalking some married woman, using his powers as a cop to do so?

Also, is that a foxtrot character I see in the tautology club? The third from the left.


Lakeview Terrace comes to mind.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Belial » Wed May 18, 2011 4:26 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Wasn't there a movie about a cop who was stalking some married woman, using his powers as a cop to do so?

Man, I'm pretty sure that one is running weekly in the police misconduct statistics project newsfeed.
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby CorruptUser » Wed May 18, 2011 4:30 am UTC

Prefanity wrote:Lakeview Terrace comes to mind.


No, another one. That one was just a racist cop, though the white guy was kind of a jerk too. I mean, Samuel L Jackson was more or less revealing his entire past at the bar, and the white guy had the perfect opportunity to end the feud right then and there, saving both of their lives. Possibly. But nooo, he had to act snotty.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed May 18, 2011 4:39 am UTC

A simpler solution: end this stupid drug war. We (the US) may have just won a big victory in the war on Islamic terrorists, but we should not go around on other ideological wars.

Yes, I know that the war on drugs was started well before Islamic (or even domestic) terrorism was a major issue in these parts, etc…
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed May 18, 2011 4:44 am UTC

Spoilered for off-topicness. Take THAT, spellcheck.

Spoiler:
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:A simpler solution: end this stupid drug war. We (the US) may have just won a big victory in the war on Islamic terrorists, but we should not go around on other ideological wars.

Yes, I know that the war on drugs was started well before Islamic (or even domestic) terrorism was a major issue in these parts, etc…


True. However, if a cop sees evidence of a crime going down, even a crime you/I/him disagrees with, the cop should do his job. It's not up to the police to determine what crimes they arrest/cite people for; that road leads to bad, bad things. Therefor, if an officer does see/smell drugs, investigating is in order. The solution is to change the law, not to harp on a cop who's just doing his job.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Jahoclave » Wed May 18, 2011 4:47 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:This is a bullshit ruling, but I understand how the court went along with it. Our current court has never particularly cared about the rights of citizens. What I don't understand is how it ended up 8-1.

Police should need a warrant (or an invitation) to enter someone's home, period, unless they have cause to believe that someone's life is at risk.

What, citizens have rights? When did that happen?

And if not Rodney King, then my girlfriend's friend who happens to now be paralyzed because the police shot him for resisting police, and by resisting police they mean, trying to get a police dog to stop biting him while he was already on the ground. A police dog that the police where not calling off so that it would continue to inflict injury.

And there is absolutely no way that trying to get a dog to stop biting you is a threat to safety of officers that necessitates assault with a deadly weapon by the police.

Sorry, I don't really have much respect for an institution that continually neglects the civil rights of the people they're supposed to "protect" and "serve." Even more so when there's the constitutional problem where the hearsay of an officer is continually perceived as being better than the hearsay of a citizen. It's why traffic court is bullshit because it's up to you to prove your innocence because you're guilty until proved innocent.

Well, we might have won the war on terror, but we also "won" the cold war and we only decided to increase military spending. So, it's not like ending a war has any relation to not continuing to waste services and institutions on the systems used in it.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby sourmìlk » Wed May 18, 2011 4:50 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote: Even more so when there's the constitutional problem where the hearsay of an officer is continually perceived as being better than the hearsay of a citizen.


I never understood this. apparently one of the questions people are often asked when being filtered through the jury duty process is "Do you have a reason not to trust the testimony of a police officer" or something like that. Well, obviously I'd only trust them as far as I'd trust any other witness, right?
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed May 18, 2011 5:00 am UTC

I didn't think it was that OT.
SummerGlauFan wrote:Spoilered for off-topicness. Take THAT, spellcheck.

Spoiler:
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:A simpler solution: end this stupid drug war. We (the US) may have just won a big victory in the war on Islamic terrorists, but we should not go around on other ideological wars.

Yes, I know that the war on drugs was started well before Islamic (or even domestic) terrorism was a major issue in these parts, etc…


True. However, if a cop sees evidence of a crime going down, even a crime you/I/him disagrees with, the cop should do his job. It's not up to the police to determine what crimes they arrest/cite people for; that road leads to bad, bad things. Therefor, if an officer does see/smell drugs, investigating is in order. The solution is to change the law, not to harp on a cop who's just doing his job.

Anyway, I guess the cops where I'm from have too little to do besides enforce these types of laws. Cops from the big city I'm near have actual crime to deal with. I agree that it is really the law that is the problem, but we shouldn't use the fact that it is on the books to make it easy to enforce. If only more candidates ran a platform advocating real drug reform (and sensible liquor laws—England, how I miss you!)…
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby Jahoclave » Wed May 18, 2011 5:05 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Jahoclave wrote: Even more so when there's the constitutional problem where the hearsay of an officer is continually perceived as being better than the hearsay of a citizen.


I never understood this. apparently one of the questions people are often asked when being filtered through the jury duty process is "Do you have a reason not to trust the testimony of a police officer" or something like that. Well, obviously I'd only trust them as far as I'd trust any other witness, right?

And, if you go by some shows where they have them dressed in uniform rather than normal attire that creates even more bias. Hell, you could probably make a pretty convincing case for mistrial given that you can do that if the jury sees a defendant in prison attire. But it really is a major issue that I have with the justice system, because the question should be, "are you able to hold an officer's testimony at the same level as a citizen without granting bias to the officer based on his perceived authority?"

Then you've got all the cop dramas which glorify cops violating civil rights. There should probably be a drinking game based on civil rights violations in t.v. dramas.

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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby M.C. » Wed May 18, 2011 5:09 am UTC

What's with all the "don't tread on me, po-lice' crap?
They do a job that noone else wants to do, that exposes them to the worst elements of society, to protect people who don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves and won't thank them?

If you want to bitch about how the police infringes on your rights, then you should look yourselves for taking the good cops for granted. People tire out too, and the good cops will retire if they aren't treated right, leaving the people on a power trip in charge.

In summary - be nice to police, and police will be nice!
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Re: Police can enter without a warrant if they feel like it

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed May 18, 2011 5:16 am UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:I didn't think it was that OT.
SummerGlauFan wrote:Spoilered for off-topicness. Take THAT, spellcheck.

Spoiler:
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:A simpler solution: end this stupid drug war. We (the US) may have just won a big victory in the war on Islamic terrorists, but we should not go around on other ideological wars.

Yes, I know that the war on drugs was started well before Islamic (or even domestic) terrorism was a major issue in these parts, etc…


True. However, if a cop sees evidence of a crime going down, even a crime you/I/him disagrees with, the cop should do his job. It's not up to the police to determine what crimes they arrest/cite people for; that road leads to bad, bad things. Therefor, if an officer does see/smell drugs, investigating is in order. The solution is to change the law, not to harp on a cop who's just doing his job.

Anyway, I guess the cops where I'm from have too little to do besides enforce these types of laws. Cops from the big city I'm near have actual crime to deal with. I agree that it is really the law that is the problem, but we shouldn't use the fact that it is on the books to make it easy to enforce. If only more candidates ran a platform advocating real drug reform (and sensible liquor laws—England, how I miss you!)…


I just didn't want a thread about police abusing power to turn into a debate about drug law. No offense intended.

But as I said, law is a law, and a police officer's job is to enforce the law. I know a cop who has (quite vocally) said he hates some of the laws he enforces, but he does it because it's his job. Police arbitrarily deciding which laws they enforce are not police you want, believe me. So, as I said and you agree with, the solution is to change the law (and in the case of the thread, uphold an existing law that says you can't search a home without a warrant).

M.C. wrote:What's with all the "don't tread on me, po-lice' crap?
They do a job that noone else wants to do, that exposes them to the worst elements of society, to protect people who don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves and won't thank them?

If you want to bitch about how the police infringes on your rights, then you should look yourselves for taking the good cops for granted. People tire out too, and the good cops will retire if they aren't treated right, leaving the people on a power trip in charge.

In summary - be nice to police, and police will be nice!


Well, police barging into your house without a warrant and proceeding to look for evidence to excuse them for this behavior is a behavior we should try to discourage, don't you think?
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.


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