In other news... (humorous news items)

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Grop
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Grop » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:20 pm UTC

Liberalism in France is exactly as Diadem explained. You want the right to sell your organs? The right for businesses to hire workers for whatever low salary they agree with? That is liberalism.

The word ultra-libéral is pretty common in French politics.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:26 pm UTC

I'm not sure if selling organs would remove the black market for them, or just make things worse.

Though what could you sell besides a kidney? Not sure people would sell an eye. Everything else requires you to be dead.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby ahammel » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:30 pm UTC

In Canada, the Liberals are the centrist party. However, many US Democrat politicians would not be out of place in our Conservative party, the country as a whole being somewhat to the left of the States.

This is no doubt the source of my confusion.

EDIT:
CorruptUser wrote:Though what could you sell besides a kidney?
Blood, skin, bits of liver (I believe), bone marrow. Probably other partial organs.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:40 pm UTC

Whilst it's true that Canada is, generally, to the left of the states, I think it's more insightful to say that the US's "centrist" policies lie significantly to the right of the "centrist" policies of most other western countries.

The tories in the UK are definitely to the left of the republicans and are, of our major parties, the most right-wing (UKIP messes it all up because they have one actual policy they care about and the rest is just popularist stuff to try and get elected making them a fuzzy blob mostly on the right end of the spectrum).
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:02 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Though what could you sell besides a kidney? Not sure people would sell an eye. Everything else requires you to be dead.
Maybe you could leave your organs in your will, allowing your heirs to sell them?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:31 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm not sure if selling organs would remove the black market for them, or just make things worse.

Though what could you sell besides a kidney? Not sure people would sell an eye. Everything else requires you to be dead.


Partial liver donations are a thing. Skin transplants are also a thing, and that's technically an organ. Don't know that bone marrow transplants count as an organ, but it's a donation that happens.

But yeah, some organs are certainly very impractical to sell while alive.

I worry about where such a practice might evolve to, though. Certainly, authoritarian regimes would try to exploit the shit out of this market. North Korea or China needs money, and has a pile of troublesome political protesters? Bam. Free money from the western market as we harvest the undesirables in bulk. Yeah, this is marginally a slippery slope argument, but it's not THAT much of a stretch, given extent examples from those countries.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Grop » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:01 pm UTC

I didn't mean to start a debate. The idea is that liberalism means very little control from the state over economy.

So indeed selling your blood is only possible in a society that is liberal in that regard. In many countries you can only give your blood for free, and this is less liberalism, because of state control.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:22 pm UTC

Ah, understood.

In the US, this direction is mostly occupied by the Libertarians(though I don't know that selling organs is really a banner issue for even them), as they emphasize less central control pretty heavily. Both of the two major parties, in practice, have very state-centric views of the economy, albeit differing ones.

Oddly enough, in this, the Green party, while differing strongly with Libertarians elsewhere, is more similar to them than the two major parties, due to the strong dislike of government/corporate interplay of power. There's a fairly significant sentiment here among the public across parties for this with regards to certain sectors...most notably bank bailouts and the like. If memory serves, the initial TARP under Bush was opposed by something like 80% of the general population, and something like 90% of economists. It's probably the area in which general opinion diverges most strongly from political reality.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:46 pm UTC

The US used to purchase blood from people. But it turned out that professional donors were often junkies, and what with AIDS and all...

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Grop » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:11 am UTC

Yes, a side effect of forbidding selling your blood is that you may make giving your blood into a right cause, and therefore have middle and upper class people into that; maybe they will be healthier.

Selling your organs was only an example of what liberalism means, because obviously no party wants that; that would be being liberalist for the sake of being liberalist.

Also while liberalism is associated with right-wing in French politics, they are not exactly the same thing. It is obviously the opposite of socialism, therefore left-wing, but part of our right-wing isn't liberal.

State control over immigration and foreigners working in your territory is also typical right-wing priorities, and is opposite to liberalism.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:01 am UTC

Who says no one wants organ sales? You have more faith in humanity than I do.

Mind you, having read a bit of un-Bowlderdized history, I have very little faith in humanity to begin with.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:48 am UTC

"Calvin and Hobbes" Bill Watterson has drawn a series of guest comics for the "Pearls before Swine" comic.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/calvin-hobbes ... 583/+Fahey

The work of "Libby the 2nd Grader" is actually the legendary Bill Watterson himself in this past week's Pearls before Swine: http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2014/06/02

It becomes very obvious by the time this comic rolls around: http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswi ... 5PraShBoeU

And once again with this one: http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswi ... 5PrjChBoeU
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:54 pm UTC

I'll double-post because this is totally unrelated to my other post.

But anyway, I just learned that the Lesbian Rule is not exactly what I expected it to be.

Spoiler:
Its a ruler that people from Lesbos used. IE: The Lesbian Rule
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:07 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I'll double-post because this is totally unrelated to my other post.

But anyway, I just learned that the Lesbian Rule is not exactly what I expected it to be.


What a wonderful thing to know.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:10 am UTC

I concur.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby krogoth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:51 am UTC

Is this like how at the 9/11 site, there were cross beams that fell and looked like the cross so Christians said they are christian relics and must be preserved? Where really they were just structural beams.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:33 am UTC

krogoth wrote:Is this like how at the 9/11 site, there were cross beams that fell and looked like the cross so Christians said they are christian relics and must be preserved? Where really they were just structural beams.

No. That is nothing like the Lesbian Rule.

Lesbian Rule is more like a simple synonym that got funny on its way to the Future.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby krogoth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:45 am UTC

I was referring to the way John Aubrey used the term, rather than the literal item.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:14 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm not sure if selling organs would remove the black market for them, or just make things worse.


You know... I actually think it was legal for one to sell their kidney in the Philippines for a while, before being re-outlawed.

I think that one of the problems was that those who opted the sale were those who were poorer and a quick, decent sum of money, and that afterward it may have affected either their work or some aspect of their life.

Iran currently has a legal organ trade, incidentally. Only for Iranians, though.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby chris857 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:25 am UTC

US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:14 am UTC

chris857 wrote:US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.

So bazaar.
Sure. It might be funny to you.

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Is it? Are you an American?

Poor us.
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To out silly the Baggers is going to be Tough.

Silly? Is that an offensive word to use for the circumstances?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:27 am UTC

chris857 wrote:US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.

I thought Boehner was the leader of the republicans in the house? The article calls him "Speaker". There is a difference between speaker and majority leader?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:50 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
chris857 wrote:US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.

I thought Boehner was the leader of the republicans in the house? The article calls him "Speaker". There is a difference between speaker and majority leader?

Gee. Off the top of my head;

The majority leader can become Speaker.
The majority votes the Speaker in?

Google says,
The Speaker of the House is the presiding officer of the chamber. The office was established in 1789 by Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, which states in part, "The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker..." The current Speaker is John Boehner, a Republican who represents Ohio's 8th congressional district. The Constitution does not require that the Speaker be an elected House Representative, though all Speakers have been an elected Member of Congress.[1]


All those Crazy rules.
All ways to prevent us from doing what we have done.

The US is what happens when people follow the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law.
Don't judge us too harshly. That kind of money is very tempting.

We are victims of a world class misinformation campaign.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:49 am UTC

Yeah, to someone used to a parliamentary system, congress is a bit confusing with it's speaker, majority leader, and minority leader. I guess the minority leader is probably the equivalent to the opposition leader, but I'm not so sure about the other two. The Speaker of the House strikes me as a combination of the Speaker and the Prime Minister, and the majority leader does some other PM like things... I don't know.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:59 am UTC

chris857 wrote:US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.


Cantor's associated with immigration reform. Not amnesty, he claims, but this is sort of a huge sign that his electorate was not on board. Success against an incumbent with that kind of spending differential is basically unheard of.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:12 pm UTC

We don't have something like a Speaker in The Netherlands. I know that Britain has one, but I've never quite understood what he does over there either. But a Prime Minister is the equivalent of your President, the leader of the executive branch of government.

Our parliament has factions, just like yours, except we have more than two. Each house faction has a faction leader, which I assume would be the equivalent of a Majority leader of Minority leader. We don't distinguish between those two (no single party has a majority anyway), but we do distinguish between opposition and government parties. The same is true in the US I guess, where the majority party isn't always in the white house either.

But is there an official difference between Majority Leader and Minority Leader, except the size of their parties? Do they have additional responsibilities? Or are they de jure equal? And what the hell is a speaker? And why is the person called Majority Leader not the leader, but only the second in command, of the majority?

Also, do you guys have something like a chair(wo)man? I assume so, because otherwise you'd just have everybody talking through each other, but how does it work. Is it a political position?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Mutex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:18 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:We don't have something like a Speaker in The Netherlands. I know that Britain has one, but I've never quite understood what he does over there either.


Basically a chairperson, stops (or tries to stop) the debate from turning into a rabblefest.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and- ... l/speaker/

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:35 pm UTC

So the speaker is the chairperson? But then how can he be the leader of the republicans?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:41 pm UTC

Spot the url for that link. No republicans here.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:49 pm UTC

Oops, somehow missed that like link was about the UK. Ok, that makes sense. Your speaker is equivalent to our chairperson then.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:33 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:So the speaker is the chairperson? But then how can he be the leader of the republicans?

It's not uncommon for a Speaker (presiding-officer of an assembly) to be partisan.
It's not the case in the UK, where the Speaker of the House of Commons (the lower house) must renounce their ties to their political party.
The Lord Speaker (for the House of Lords) is expected to be impartial too.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:57 pm UTC

In practice, the speaker of the commons is partisan though. It's just that they only get to vote in extremely rare cases (a tied vote) and can't speak in debates so it's more or less irrelevant.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:05 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
chris857 wrote:US House Majority Leader loses primary, first time to happen since creation of the position in 1899.

*PS, that font renders disgustingly with my Chrome on XP.


Cantor's associated with immigration reform. Not amnesty, he claims, but this is sort of a huge sign that his electorate was not on board. Success against an incumbent with that kind of spending differential is basically unheard of.


Additionally, I hear that this makes both the Repub and Dem candidate from the same university, where both are professors. The Dem teaches Sociology, and the Repub, Economics, because of course they do.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:10 pm UTC

Ha! Given that he's a tea party darling, I'm guessing he's an Austrian? So the two biggest jokes in Academia outside of a "studies" Professor.

Spoiler:
Sociology can answer EVERY single question with "there's this invisible force that can not be tested or proven, called Society, that causes this". Thus, one of the more useful fields is rendered useless because of how easy it is to just bullshit your way through it. It doesn't help that one of the earliest sociologists was Karl Marx, who, politics aside, was notorious for shoehorning all of history into "class struggles" and anyone who disagreed with him was "living in a false consciousness", which is basically the "sheeple" argument.

Austrian Economics, also known as supply side economics, is notorious for ignoring empirical evidence when it contradicts its viewpoints. Which is virtually always. While Economics is a social science, it is one of the few where empirical evidence does exist. Deductive reasoning is only good for math and philosophy, not science.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby omgryebread » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:27 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:But is there an official difference between Majority Leader and Minority Leader, except the size of their parties?
Parties basically have a leadership of two or three individuals in each chamber. The only position in the House of Representatives that's mentioned in the Constitution is the Speaker of the House. This doesn't have to be a congresspeep, they can choose whoever they want, but it's always been a member of the Majority Party. Since the position is super-powerful, that makes them the leader of the Majority Party. However, the Majority Party still retains its two leadership positions, that of Leader and Whip. Typically this means that when the minority becomes the majority, the Leader moves to Speaker (currently John Boehner), the Whip moves to Leader (Eric Cantor until the next Congress), and they make a new person the Majority Whip (Kevin McCarthy). The minority doesn't have a Speaker equivalent, of course, so they just have the Minority Leader (Nancy Pelosi, formerly Speaker) and a Whip (Steny Hoyer, formerly Majority Leader).

Do they have additional responsibilities? Or are they de jure equal?


The Minority Leader is unequivocally the leader of the party in the House. She makes the appointments to committees and is the public face of the party in the House.

The Majority Leader's duties vary, usually being "whatever the hell the Speaker wants them to do." The Speaker is the leader of their party. Often (most of the time), the Majority Leader ends up less prominent than the Minority Leader.

And what the hell is a speaker?

The Speaker is the Constitutional leader of the House of Representatives. Because of the rules of the House and it's relative power compared to the Senate, the Speaker is the second most powerful position in American Government. If the party that controls the House does not control the White House (and there is no presidential nominee at the moment), the Speaker tends to take on a lot of the roles of a party leader. The Speaker controls which bills go to which committee, and appoints the majority of members of the Committee on Rules, which basically controls how the House works. He appoints the chair of every committee, including the Committee of the Whole, which is the whole House. In a committee (...don't ask).

And why is the person called Majority Leader not the leader, but only the second in command, of the majority?
Eh, Tradition. Speaker is technically not a party leadership position, even though he effectively leads the party.

Also, do you guys have something like a chair(wo)man? I assume so, because otherwise you'd just have everybody talking through each other, but how does it work. Is it a political position?
For the House of Representatives, this role is taken by the Speaker. They tell people when they are out of time to speak and handle all the procedural stuff and rule on procedural disputes (though that can be appealed to the whole House). Typically, the Speaker passes this off to a Speaker pro tempore. For minor stuff, the speaker pro tem will be a junior member of the Speaker's party. For more important stuff, he'll choose a senior member. For the most important stuff (read: when cameras are there), he'll keep the gavel himself.

Confusingly, most of the work of the House is actually done in committees. These have a chair appointed by the Speaker. When bills are introduced, he'll send them to committees, choosing based on both relevancy to that committee and political considerations, and that committee sends them to a subcommittee, which has a chair appointed by the full committee, in concert with House Leadership.

If bills get through committee (sub and full), they then go to the full House... kinda. In actuality, some bills (which bills these are is determined by the Committee on Rules) are actually considered by the Committee of the Whole, and the Speaker will appoint a chair of that committee.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:27 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Ha! Given that he's a tea party darling, I'm guessing he's an Austrian? So the two biggest jokes in Academia outside of a "studies" Professor.

Spoiler:
Sociology can answer EVERY single question with "there's this invisible force that can not be tested or proven, called Society, that causes this". Thus, one of the more useful fields is rendered useless because of how easy it is to just bullshit your way through it. It doesn't help that one of the earliest sociologists was Karl Marx, who, politics aside, was notorious for shoehorning all of history into "class struggles" and anyone who disagreed with him was "living in a false consciousness", which is basically the "sheeple" argument.

Austrian Economics, also known as supply side economics, is notorious for ignoring empirical evidence when it contradicts its viewpoints. Which is virtually always. While Economics is a social science, it is one of the few where empirical evidence does exist. Deductive reasoning is only good for math and philosophy, not science.


Haven't investigated further, but no doubt there is a hilarious comedy routine to be had.

That said, at the risk of ruining the comedy with pedantry, as Austrian Economics is an economic philosophy, it'd be the economists themselves(or the school of thought of the same name that adheres to the philosophy) that have attitudes towards evidence, not the philosphy itself. Additionally, there is a significant subset who believe that the models are just models, not belief systems, and you need not be a firm devotee of any one model any more than you need to be in physics. Just use whichever is useful for the given problem space and required accuracy.

But yeah...sociology isn't a real science, IMO. Any subset of it that is actually scientific falls rather neatly into an existing scientific domain(statistics, etc), but the whole is definitely not a scientific endevour.

Edit: Alternative interpretation: Actual free market economist wins nomination, Republicans lose their minds.

Still amusing, IMO.
Last edited by Tyndmyr on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:17 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:38 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Ha! Given that he's a tea party darling, I'm guessing he's an Austrian? So the two biggest jokes in Academia outside of a "studies" Professor.

Spoiler:
Sociology can answer EVERY single question with "there's this invisible force that can not be tested or proven, called Society, that causes this". Thus, one of the more useful fields is rendered useless because of how easy it is to just bullshit your way through it. It doesn't help that one of the earliest sociologists was Karl Marx, who, politics aside, was notorious for shoehorning all of history into "class struggles" and anyone who disagreed with him was "living in a false consciousness", which is basically the "sheeple" argument.

Austrian Economics, also known as supply side economics, is notorious for ignoring empirical evidence when it contradicts its viewpoints. Which is virtually always. While Economics is a social science, it is one of the few where empirical evidence does exist. Deductive reasoning is only good for math and philosophy, not science.


Haven't investigated further, but no doubt there is a hilarious comedy routine to be had.

That said, at the risk of ruining the comedy with pedantry, as Austrian Economics is an economic philosophy, it'd be the economists themselves(or the school of thought of the same name that adheres to the philosophy) that have attitudes towards evidence, not the philosphy itself. Additionally, there is a significant subset who believe that the models are just models, not belief systems, and you need not be a firm devotee of any one model any more than you need to be in physics. Just use whichever is useful for the given problem space and required accuracy.

But yeah...sociology isn't a real science, IMO. Any subset of it that is actually scientific falls rather neatly into an existing scientific domain(statistics, etc), but the whole is definitely not a scientific endevour.

Beautifully stated argument for Moral Relativity.

It's all Relative, after all.
(big sigh) It's all so easy.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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mobiusstripsearch
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby mobiusstripsearch » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:48 pm UTC

Our Majority Leader is in charge of the larger party in the House (Here, Republicans).
Our Minority Leader is in change of the smaller party in the House (Here, Democrats).

The Speaker is in charge of the House itself.

We also have Majority and Minority Leaders in the Senate (where Democrats have the majority) -- but no Speaker.

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CorruptUser
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:23 pm UTC

The economic schools of thought do differ in their methodology. Austrian is the only major one (there are only three major ones) that ignore the evidence. The Chicago and Keynesian schools are actually almost identical today, only really differing in their goals rather than their research. Chicagoans tend to focus more on smoothing out the business cycle and maximizing total utility through government policy, while the Salties tend to focus more on smoothing out the business cycle and maximizing minimum utility (prioritarianism) through government policy.

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Whizbang
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Whizbang » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:29 pm UTC

Last edited by Whizbang on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:30 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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