In other news... (humorous news items)

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image

A podium? How are they going to talk about real girls' issues without a podium to direct attention to the speaker?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:16 pm UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image

A podium? How are they going to talk about real girls' issues without a podium to direct attention to the speaker?

Do you mean a lectern? :wink:
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:19 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
WibblyWobbly wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image

A podium? How are they going to talk about real girls' issues without a podium to direct attention to the speaker?

Do you mean a lectern? :wink:

I always get that wrong, thanks. Yes, a lectern! How are they going to give speeches on how awesome their girls' council is going to be for girls' rights without a proper lectern?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:
Liri wrote:
WibblyWobbly wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image

A podium? How are they going to talk about real girls' issues without a podium to direct attention to the speaker?

Do you mean a lectern? :wink:

I always get that wrong, thanks. Yes, a lectern! How are they going to give speeches on how awesome their girls' council is going to be for girls' rights without a proper lectern?

Well, once they do it'll go like this
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Chen » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

Baby steps people, baby steps. Also apparently there are at least women on the council, they were just in another room due to enforced gender segregation of unrelated men and women. So yeah that's probably one of the first things to tackle.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Felstaff » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:49 pm UTC

Oxford comma* settles dispute.

*or lack of one.

I've always argued the Oxford comma can reduce confusion for anyone who communicates, including your parents, Ronald Reagan and Koko the Gorilla.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby pogrmman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:03 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Oxford comma* settles dispute.

*or lack of one.

I've always argued the Oxford comma can reduce confusion for anyone who communicates, including your parents, Ronald Reagan and Koko the Gorilla.



I've always preferred the Oxford comma. I'm glad to see the resolution of this case. The statute clearly says "packing for shipment or distribution" -- without making them separate activities.

I'm glad you think that Ronald Reagan and Koko the Gorilla were my parents (I mean, who wouldn't want them as parents?) But unfortunately, you are misinformed.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby WibblyWobbly » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:09 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:
Felstaff wrote:Oxford comma* settles dispute.

*or lack of one.

I've always argued the Oxford comma can reduce confusion for anyone who communicates, including your parents, Ronald Reagan and Koko the Gorilla.



I've always preferred the Oxford comma. I'm glad to see the resolution of this case. The statute clearly says "packing for shipment or distribution" -- without making them separate activities.

I'm glad you think that Ronald Reagan and Koko the Gorilla were my parents (I mean, who wouldn't want them as parents?) But unfortunately, you are misinformed.

No, they're my parents. Though the fact that Dad would never recognize me as his son was always a source of great sadness to Mom. She used to sign all the time that she wished her cousin Bonzo had never set them up.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:15 pm UTC

It's that dang Bonzo journalism.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Sableagle » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:38 pm UTC


The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;
(2) Meat and fish products; and
(3) Perishable foods.


There's an Oxford semicolon in there, which implies the Oxford comma should be expected, but if you treat "packing for shipment or distribution" as a single item then the line is:
The A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H of:

(1) Agricultural produce;
(2) Meat and fish products; and
(3) Perishable foods.
That contains neither "or" nor "and" so the exemption would become:
(1) The (canning), (processing), (preserving), (freezing), (drying), (marketing), (storing), (packing for shipment) or (distribution) of agricultural produce;
(2) Meat and fish products; and
(3) Perishable foods.
In context, that also makes no sense.

I therefore agree with the district court.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby addams » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:51 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image
Yes.That is very funny.
I think I can spot her!

We had a similar situation here, in the U.S. not long ago.

Nope.
I don't remember the detail.
Someone else will.

oops.
I'm late to the show. (shrug)

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Deva » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:00 am UTC

Guesses an abortion bill. Found Donald Trump, Ohio, and George Bush versions.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby ObsessoMom » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:16 pm UTC

Boston Public Schools move from Mercator to Peters Projection maps.

Outraged tweet from Trump in three...two...one...

Actually, I seem to recall some maps of Trump World. Here are two (of many):

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-co ... t-raw.jpeg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-p ... el1pzy.jpg

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:34 pm UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:Boston Public Schools move from Mercator to Peters Projection maps.

Outraged tweet from Trump in three...two...one...

Actually, I seem to recall some maps of Trump World. Here are two (of many):

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-co ... t-raw.jpeg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-p ... el1pzy.jpg



Outrage from me. Fuck the Galls-Peters Projections.
Relevant:
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:42 am UTC

Related question:

Is the difficulty in creating a decent map projection related to how combing the hair on a (2-)sphere always results in cowlicks? I mean, AFAIK it's only impossible to do otherwise on spheres, and not an issue on their higher and lower dimensional analogues. Back to map projections (by which I mean projecting the surface of an n-sphere to an n-dimensional euclidean surface, excuse the poor word choices), I know that with circles (you know, 1-spheres) you just find a good spot to cut it (literally anywhere), and you get a straight line. I just have some (unsurprising) difficulty projecting the map projection problem upward, because I can't imagine how to properly visualise a 3-sphere.
Last edited by Sheikh al-Majaneen on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:27 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby commodorejohn » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:15 am UTC

Couldn't we just finally accept that no 2D rectangle will ever map to a spherical surface without bizarre distortions and, y'know, use a globe instead? I mean, what, we're supposed to be impressed that you switched from one wrong map to another wrong map?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:08 am UTC

But it's a socially conscious map! So what if it distorts the world just as much as the Mercator map, and is inferior to just about every other common map projection available such as Platte Carree or Robinson, it's Social Justice, following my interpretation of Social Justice is more important that knowing things, because knowledge is Western Imperialism!

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby addams » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:29 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But it's a socially conscious map! So what if it distorts the world just as much as the Mercator map, and is inferior to just about every other common map projection available such as Platte Carree or Robinson, it's Social Justice, following my interpretation of Social Justice is more important that knowing things, because knowledge is Western Imperialism!
Oops. Nah...I don't want to wade into it.

I do like a Good Globe.

We, just, can't make flat maps illegal.
We would miss out on so much fun.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Sableagle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:17 am UTC

addams wrote:We, just, can't make flat maps illegal.
We don't need to. We can just ban people from looking at more than a 50 x 50 km area at a time on a flat map, to minimise distortion.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Zohar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:47 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But it's a socially conscious map! So what if it distorts the world just as much as the Mercator map, and is inferior to just about every other common map projection available such as Platte Carree or Robinson, it's Social Justice, following my interpretation of Social Justice is more important that knowing things, because knowledge is Western Imperialism!

Right, um, moving on...

At the very least people are viewing different maps, which is already an improvement.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Mutex » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:52 pm UTC

I'm still trying to work out how using a different map projection to Mercator is shunning knowledge.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Diadem » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:47 pm UTC

My main objection to the Gall-Peters projection is that it's fucking ugly. Teaching kids about different projections however is a very good idea. As for a default projection, both Mercator and Gall-Peters give some huge distortions. Perhaps one of the compromise projections would be better for a classroom.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:55 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:I'm still trying to work out how using a different map projection to Mercator is shunning knowledge.


What? No, we've used different maps all the time, and cartographers have LONG been trying to replace Mercator as the standard map because of distortion. Problem is, Gall-Peters is not the solution, it's just an attempt by self-absorbed pricks to makes themselves feel better than everyone else. And it STILL has horrible distortion. And really, where is Antarctica? Just use one of the other maps that has less distortion, e.g., even the Goode Homolosine.

Most of my bias comes from finding out about Galls-Peters back in 2003ish, with some people who posted a bunch of blatant lies in order to make their point, including shifting the equator down (which the Mercator has in the center) to somehow make it more racist or something. Then the whole "downside up" thing just pisses me off because these people have never seen a goddamn globe apparently; the bulk of Africa and all but some islands in Asia are in the Northern hemisphere, not to mention chunks of South America, meaning somewhere around 88% of the world lives in the North, so of course North will be "up".

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Dauric » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:47 pm UTC

I happen to like the Dymaxion map, but not because as Randal Munroe claims I have a thing about the segway or own virtual reality goggles (though I do like Issac Asimov)..

It wraps around a twenty-sided die.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:53 pm UTC

Wait, it was invented by Buckminster Fuller? That alone should be the selling point!

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby djangochained » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:25 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
ObsessoMom wrote:Boston Public Schools move from Mercator to Peters Projection maps.

Outraged tweet from Trump in three...two...one...

Actually, I seem to recall some maps of Trump World. Here are two (of many):

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-co ... t-raw.jpeg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-p ... el1pzy.jpg



Outrage from me. Fuck the Galls-Peters Projections.
Relevant:
Spoiler:
Image



Haha I just came around to reading this, wow.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby addams » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:36 am UTC

Dauric wrote:I happen to like the Dymaxion map, but not because as Randal Munroe claims I have a thing about the segway or own virtual reality goggles (though I do like Issac Asimov)..

It wraps around a twenty-sided die.
I had a puzzle of that Map.
It was a difficult Joy to put together.
CorruptUser wrote:Wait, it was invented by Buckminster Fuller? That alone should be the selling point!
I agree.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby jewish_scientist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:30 pm UTC

I think that this should be the standard test for the quality of a global map: move the center from 0,0 to Syndey, Australia, rotate by 76o, and compare the original. If everything looks really weird, your map projection is no good.

That said, my favorite map for teaching is the one that is actually several maps on top of each other, and the teacher flips the irrelevant maps over the top until a map of the area and time period being talked about is visible. I mean, who cares about Argentina when discussing Napoleon's invasion of Russia.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Mutex » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:45 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:That said, my favorite map for teaching is the one that is actually several maps on top of each other, and the teacher flips the irrelevant maps over the top until a map of the area and time period being talked about is visible. I mean, who cares about Argentina when discussing Napoleon's invasion of Russia.


It sounds like you're describing an atlas?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby kalira » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:21 pm UTC

If I'm reading correctly, he's talking about something like this:
Image

There's a spring roller at the top, and several maps contained in the "roll," which you can see the bottoms of in that pic. The teacher pulls down the maproll and then can flip maps over the top (they go over the bar at the top and rest behind the others) until they get to the one they need, then when done, just spring the whole thing back up and it's ready again for the next map-based discussion. IIRC they were often mounted just over the blackboard so you ended up covering half the notes on the board when you pulled one down. We had them in I want to say elementary school maybe, and my AP US History classroom definitely had one that focused on different eras/areas. I don't think I've seen one in years, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't still around.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby jewish_scientist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:28 pm UTC

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. Have you really not seen one recently? My college history professor uses the one in our classroom all the time.

LaserGuy wrote:Here's a picture from the first meeting of the girl's council in Saudi Arabia for discussing the welfare and empowerment of women. See if you can spot what's missing.

Spoiler:
Image

Strictly speaking, isn't that the Poisoning The Well Fallacy. At the same time, I do not plan on making the Fallacy Fallacy either.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:17 pm UTC

It's not a fallacy if you aren't making an argument.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby kalira » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:26 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. Have you really not seen one recently? My college history professor uses the one in our classroom all the time.


I haven't, but then, I graduated college more than 10 years ago, and have no reason to go to schools these days due to lack of spawn. It's entirely possible/likely that they are still in use; I just haven't seen them in a while.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby ivnja » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:06 am UTC

As infuriating as Steve Waterman was, I do adore his butterfly map, and I rather like the Goode homolosine if you want to preserve the standard "north-up" view (and don't care much about Greenland or Antarctica). The fact that you can use the orange peel analogy to explain its shape and its distortions is useful, I think, when introducing map projections in a classroom, because when I was teaching GIS I found that even at the college level a lot of students just don't grok what projections actually do or why we'd prefer one over the other for different scales and purposes.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Coyne » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:14 am UTC

I say why not save flat maps for later schooling and instead teach from something like 3D Interactive Earth Globe? No flat projection is without problems, and physical globes (most ideal) have problems in teaching environments.

As the student graduates to flat maps, the form should be introduced in conjunction with an overview of the problems they have, as well as the reasons they are useful.
In all fairness...

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby ivnja » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:05 am UTC

Flat maps are rather easier to photocopy.

I know, very pithy, but unfortunately the technology isn't always there yet in districts to make online-based instruction fully feasible - the schools at this point are probably almost all set up to allow teachers to use an online (or offline, but still computerized) resource for their front-of-classroom instruction, and some have enough computers in classrooms to allow students to group up and do some work there on their own, but that's far from a sure thing. And nationally, as of 2013 one in four American households did not have an internet connection, and the poorer the household and the lower the educational achievement of the householder (i.e. the parent), the less likely it is that they have a computer and internet at home. In Mississippi, only about 62% of households had high speed internet [note: in the first few tables in the pdf, the percentages across various demographics with high speed internet were consistently only a couple points lower than the percentages with any internet access at all]. When kids are learning about the names of continents or the location of countries in third grade social studies, it's hardly fair to expect a large chunk of them to have to go to the library to find a computer to do their homework instead of the teachers handing out worksheets. At some point, paper maps do have to enter the equation, and unfortunately I think it ends up being most necessary with the younger students.

As I said above, though, I would prefer if schools used one of the various interrupted projections, which cut down on landmass distortion and make the "unpeeling" aspect clearer. Mercator, etc. can come later, when students are advanced enough to understand the basics of some of the math behind them.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Sableagle » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:07 am UTC

ivnja wrote:Flat maps are rather easier to photocopy.

I know, very pithy, but unfortunately the technology isn't always there yet in districts to make online-based instruction fully feasible - the schools at this point are ..... nationally, ..... American ..... Mississippi, ..... it's hardly fair to expect a large chunk of them to have to go to the library to find a computer to do their homework .....


Not to mention that for some people the nearest library is a full day's bicycle ride away.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:03 pm UTC

dang that first schoolroom looks frikkin awesome
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:55 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Is the difficulty in creating a decent map projection related to how combing the hair on a (2-)sphere always results in cowlicks?
No, because you can comb the hair on a torus just fine but it would still be distorted if you tried to flatten it out into a 2D map.

The distortions come from intrinsic curvature, which you can have in any dimension higher than 1 and which doesn't depend on whether the surface has holes in it.

I mean, AFAIK it's only impossible to do otherwise on spheres, and not an issue on their higher and lower dimensional analogues.
It's impossible on all even-dimensional spheres.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items)

Postby speising » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:05 pm UTC

See this nice Numberphile video about curvature: The Remarkable Way We Eat Pizza


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