Google discontinuing support for old browsers

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Enthalpie
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:32 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:There are portable versions of both Chrome and Firefox where updating them would be as simple as pushing out new files to a shared drive (or to users' individual drives).

Thanks.
Maybe my Google-Fu is starting to fail me, but I could only find the portable version from portableapps. I am not sure I would like to use that one in a corporate environment, but I will look further into it.

I would still be uncomfortable allowing all users to install/update/use every software they want to use on their own; aside from security issues, even most of the IT department has trouble understanding the difference between free software and open source software, not even mentioning the finer details of licenses.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby iop » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:45 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:not even mentioning the finer details of licenses.

Indeed. Those licenses that are "free for personal use"? People won't worry about installing them, but the company will be up for a lawsuit.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby doggitydogs » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:20 pm UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:
yash wrote:2) too harsh for schools/students in those schools, with horrible outdated browsers?

Schools can update their browsers just like everyone else, and should.

At my school, we have about two hundred computers spread between eight computer labs. Each of these computers is configured differently, even though they're on a corporate domain.
All but fifteen of them run Windows XP, and the rest run Windows 7, except for three which run Windows Vista.
Many of them run IE6, most have IE7, a select few have IE8, and twelve have IE9.
Except for the seven which have Firefox.
Many have Office 2007, though most still have 2003 and twelve have Office Starter 2010.
There are twenty netbooks, about seventy-five notebooks, and many desktops of various ages (up until this year, a lot of them still ran Windows 2000 and were beige).
And, in the course of a single day, I need to use about three to four different computers, all of which run different combinations of things.
This is why I have installed Firefox Portable to my My Documents folder.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby brume » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:21 pm UTC

Gah!

I went in to a local Chase Bank office to set up an account to receive PayPal payments from my website. When we were done I asked them if they would look at my site from their office so I could see how it displays. They are still on IE6. My site looked terrible. So, now I'm back to re-coding the CSS for IE6. Bugger....

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

brume wrote:Gah!

I went in to a local Chase Bank office to set up an account to receive PayPal payments from my website. When we were done I asked them if they would look at my site from their office so I could see how it displays. They are still on IE6. My site looked terrible. So, now I'm back to re-coding the CSS for IE6. Bugger....
Just put a NO IE6 script that makes a big pop-up telling them IE6 is bad and be done with it, unless of course they are big clients...... In that case, code the site for IE6 in as simple of a manner as possible (ie. make things look merely passable with a minimal amount of work from you), and tell them that they are missing out. Just like how most site will pop a "this site requires javascript" when you use NoScript.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:07 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:Just put a NO IE6 script that makes a big pop-up telling them IE6 is bad and be done with it, unless of course they are big clients...... In that case, code the site for IE6 in as simple of a manner as possible (ie. make things look merely passable with a minimal amount of work from you), and tell them that they are missing out. Just like how most site will pop a "this site requires javascript" when you use NoScript.

I'm sure they will immediately upgrade all of their software when some random person tells them they cannot see some random website (or would never consider switching their contractor, whichever side you are coming from here).
Seriously, when you want people to use your website, build it so that they can actually use it. And use it in a good and easy way. You want something from them, not the other way around.

Actually that reminds me of The Good Old warnings: "Best viewed with Internet Explorer 5". Ah, that were the days...

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:01 am UTC

Enthalpie wrote:
achan1058 wrote:Just put a NO IE6 script that makes a big pop-up telling them IE6 is bad and be done with it, unless of course they are big clients...... In that case, code the site for IE6 in as simple of a manner as possible (ie. make things look merely passable with a minimal amount of work from you), and tell them that they are missing out. Just like how most site will pop a "this site requires javascript" when you use NoScript.

I'm sure they will immediately upgrade all of their software when some random person tells them they cannot see some random website (or would never consider switching their contractor, whichever side you are coming from here).
Seriously, when you want people to use your website, build it so that they can actually use it. And use it in a good and easy way. You want something from them, not the other way around.

Actually that reminds me of The Good Old warnings: "Best viewed with Internet Explorer 5". Ah, that were the days...
That depends on the amount of power you hold. If you are Google and you suddenly blocks IE6 completely, I am sure you will get quite a few upgrades. Of course, they aren't going to be that extreme, and instead simply "dropping support". ie. They don't care whether it will look right on IE6 or not, or whether all functionality works or not. (or perhaps even make it won't look right to "encourage" people to upgrade, depending on whether the Google employees are evil......)

This of course also works if you are any website that depends on a diverse set of people visiting you. For example, this very own forum itself, or any personal website you are building. It's a pity that not enough people starts to block IE6.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:53 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:That depends on the amount of power you hold. If you are Google and you suddenly blocks IE6 completely, I am sure you will get quite a few upgrades. Of course, they aren't going to be that extreme, and instead simply "dropping support". ie. They don't care whether it will look right on IE6 or not, or whether all functionality works or not. (or perhaps even make it won't look right to "encourage" people to upgrade, depending on whether the Google employees are evil......)

This of course also works if you are any website that depends on a diverse set of people visiting you. For example, this very own forum itself, or any personal website you are building. It's a pity that not enough people starts to block IE6.

Google obviously has some power. Are you or I or brume Google? No? Then it doesn't really matter and it wouldn't be a good idea to stop working on older browser, now would it?
Google won't stop supporting older browsers. As in ever. That would cost them a buckload of money.
Google Apps will stop working on older browsers. Now guess how computer affine companies are that already use an online office system and how many of them will have a hard time switching.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby the_bandersnatch » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:49 am UTC

Enthalpie wrote:Google won't stop supporting older browsers. As in ever.


Yes they will. Do you think they still actively support for, for example, Mozilla Firebird? IE3? Netscape Navigator?

Enthalpie wrote:That would cost them a buckload of money.


No it won't.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Vash » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:52 am UTC

Firefox 3.5 is an old browser by this standard? It just became obsolete. Christ. Well, I'm not upgrading on my work computer.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Adacore » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:55 am UTC

Unless your client base is asian, IE6 usage has dropped to pretty minimal levels now. You won't lose much business in the West by failing to support a browser that's no longer even supported by the company that made it in the first place.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:15 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:Google obviously has some power. Are you or I or brume Google? No? Then it doesn't really matter and it wouldn't be a good idea to stop working on older browser, now would it?
If your client is a diverse set, it isn't a bad idea. You won't lose much profit, and you cut development time not bothering to test for IE6. Obviously if your one and only corporate client uses IE6, you might want to rethink that. But are you or I or xkcd working for one corporate client? I would say probably not.
Enthalpie wrote:Google won't stop supporting older browsers. As in ever. That would cost them a buckload of money.
Did you not read the thread title and the OP?

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:35 pm UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:Yes they will. Do you think they still actively support for, for example, Mozilla Firebird? IE3? Netscape Navigator?

I didn't expect N&A to be that pedantic, but you are right, of course. Obviously no browser will be supported literally forever.
But there is a huge difference between actively supporting every quirk and deliberately breaking browser support.
And I honestly thought we were talking (mostly) about IE5/6, not the prehistoric ones. (And, just for the record, I just installed Win95/IE3 to test whether it still works. Google does fine, Google Apps obviously not, but I doubt anyone would have expected something different here. Please don't force me to use even older ones, I don't have that much time and I doubt I could find my 3.1 discs.).

Adacore wrote:Unless your client base is asian, IE6 usage has dropped to pretty minimal levels now. You won't lose much business in the West by failing to support a browser that's no longer even supported by the company that made it in the first place.

Yes, well, obviously you wont lose billions of potential clients/users. It is your decision whether or not they are still important. But why would you deliberately break their browser, which was what was proposed and against which I argued?
Humorous personal anecdote: My previous employer with some few thousand employees finally updated to IE6 last year. But I would not expect that to be the standard.

achan1058 wrote:If your client is a diverse set, it isn't a bad idea. You won't lose much profit, and you cut development time not bothering to test for IE6. Obviously if your one and only corporate client uses IE6, you might want to rethink that. But are you or I or xkcd working for one corporate client? I would say probably not.

Sure, it is your money, not mine. Do whatever you feel you need to do. If you already have more than enough money/clients/user/fans/workload, don't worry about it.

I just truly find it baffling that someone would deliberately exclude potential clients/user just because they don't always use the latest software. You are there to make their work easier, not the other way around. For most people computer and software are nothing more than a tool (often a rather tedious one), not the goal.
Are you, by any chance, responsible for important business decisions?

achan1058 wrote:Did you not read the thread title and the OP?

Well, the thread start was about Google Apps, not Google The Whole Lot. What did you think we were talking about? I even made a point earlier about Google Apps following different rules, and why.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:02 pm UTC

They're not deliberately breaking anything, though. They're just no longer going to worry about making sure any new features continue to be compatible with twice-outdated browsers.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Xeio » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:04 pm UTC

Vash wrote:Firefox 3.5 is an old browser by this standard? It just became obsolete. Christ. Well, I'm not upgrading on my work computer.
Essentially they will no longer test against it. So if they hit an obscure 3.5 bug that breaks the standard, it's just going to be broken, they won't fix it.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:28 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:They're not deliberately breaking anything, though. They're just no longer going to worry about making sure any new features continue to be compatible with twice-outdated browsers.

Of course they aren't breaking anything. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, but achan1058 and some others here would like to. Which is what started this whole derailment.
I was actually a bit surprised that they went out of their way to fully support IE7 till now(even though I don't think 5 years is that old). Still, Google Apps is more of a web application than a web site. But it is nice to see Google Maps still working in IE6. The mobile version even works in IE3.

To make me happy they would have to start supporting Opera, though. That would be a nice change.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Radical_Initiator » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:I didn't expect N&A to be that pedantic


An all-too-common mistake.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:13 pm UTC

It's not pedantry to assume your intended meaning corresponds to the words you used.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Radical_Initiator » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:15 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:It's not pedantry to assume your intended meaning corresponds to the words you used.

No, but surely you won't deny pedantry is a bit of a hobby around here.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:29 pm UTC

Of course, but calling out a poster on such a blatantly false statement isn't it.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:30 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:It's not pedantry to assume your intended meaning corresponds to the words you used.

Well then, if you want to be exact, I actually said "Google won't stop supporting older browsers.". I didn't say every single one or oldest or some other word that would encompass an even broader variety.

Though I don't think something like "As in ever" in the context of software support is taken by anyone even remotely capable of comprehensing written language to mean "until the universe dies and beyond.".

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:33 pm UTC

Whatever, dude. You blatantly contradicted the very thread title, on any reasonable reading of your sentence. And then you got called on it.

Get over it.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Whatever, dude. You blatantly contradicted the very thread title, on any reasonable reading of your sentence. And then you got called on it.

Get over it.

I did? We weren't even talking about Google Apps at that point, which is what the thread title was all about. And if I remember correctly, I immediately clarified what was meant, after the first response.
But, to quote someone else:
gmalivuk wrote:Of course, but calling out a poster on such a blatantly false statement isn't [pedantry].

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Zamfir » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:48 pm UTC

Enough about pedantry

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:03 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:I just truly find it baffling that someone would deliberately exclude potential clients/user just because they don't always use the latest software. You are there to make their work easier, not the other way around. For most people computer and software are nothing more than a tool (often a rather tedious one), not the goal.
Are you, by any chance, responsible for important business decisions?
Google's decision to stop censoring China is definitely deliberately breaking something. So yes, money isn't everything. Anyways, yYes, computer is a tool, and not a goal. I use it more like a tool than a goal myself as well. So is a car, and if your car break doesn't work properly, you are not to drive the car.
Enthalpie wrote:Well, the thread start was about Google Apps, not Google The Whole Lot. What did you think we were talking about? I even made a point earlier about Google Apps following different rules, and why.
As for this, try running NoScript on Google's main page for today. Some (non-vital) functionality breaks.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:18 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:Google's decision to stop censoring China is definitely deliberately breaking something. So yes, money isn't everything.
Yes, computer is a tool, and not a goal. So is a car, and if your car break doesn't work properly, you are not to drive the car. As for business decisions? Not yet. I did used to work for Google, though.

Sure there are more important things than money, and good reason to pass an opportunity to earn it. You seem to see supporting older browsers is one of them, I do not. Of course it would be nice (for the users) to only use relatively moden browsers, but I wouldn't forcibly, well, force them, just because I don't want them to use them any longer.
And the car, in this analogy, is not broken. It just isn't as shiny, does have only two doors instead of four and won't be able to use the next(tm) super windshield map overlay. Or Google Docs. Or something like that.
Don't support them, fine, I probably should be pleased as that means less competetion. (Aside the fact, of course, that I do not develop web pages/applications and therefore do not benefit at all. I just would stop using use web sites that for not apparent reason stop working on otherside functional browsers. Regardless of me losing money.)

Ah, and yes, the nice music playing thing didn't work in IE3 either.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:21 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:
achan1058 wrote:Google's decision to stop censoring China is definitely deliberately breaking something. So yes, money isn't everything.
Yes, computer is a tool, and not a goal. So is a car, and if your car break doesn't work properly, you are not to drive the car. As for business decisions? Not yet. I did used to work for Google, though.
And the car, in this analogy, is not broken. It just isn't as shiny, does have only two doors instead of four and won't be able to use the next(tm) super windshield map overlay. Or Google Docs. Or something like that.
Except that it is like a car with broken breaks instead of a rusty looking car. I think this is where our opinions differs.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Dauric » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:26 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:I just truly find it baffling that someone would deliberately exclude potential clients/user just because they don't always use the latest software.

You are there to make their work easier, not the other way around.


The underlined is incorrect. The provider of a service is there to make money by providing a service to the customer that makes the customers work easier. If providing said service fails to produce profit for the provider, then there is no reason for the provider to provide said service.

Charities, Non-Profit Organizations and Government -may- operate with no/reduced profit motive, but Google is none of those. It is a for-profit company and the bottom line is the primary (though not only) motivator.

Legacy support, by it's very nature as supporting technologies that are in the process of being replaced, is a declining revenue stream. At some point that declining revenue crosses the point that it no longer supports the expense of maintaining the legacy support.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby KestrelLowing » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:51 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
Enthalpie wrote:
achan1058 wrote:Google's decision to stop censoring China is definitely deliberately breaking something. So yes, money isn't everything.
Yes, computer is a tool, and not a goal. So is a car, and if your car break doesn't work properly, you are not to drive the car. As for business decisions? Not yet. I did used to work for Google, though.
And the car, in this analogy, is not broken. It just isn't as shiny, does have only two doors instead of four and won't be able to use the next(tm) super windshield map overlay. Or Google Docs. Or something like that.
Except that it is like a car with broken breaks instead of a rusty looking car. I think this is where our opinions differs.


I think a better analogy would be a car that can not travel on the highways because the minimum speed on the highway is 45mph and they can only go 40mph. The internet has changed and while some browsers are perfectly fine for doing relatively simple tasks that have been around for a long time (the slower city roads) it cannot accomplish the more difficult, possibly more useful tasks (the new highway).

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby jules.LT » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:07 pm UTC

KestrelLowing wrote:I think a better analogy would be a car that can not travel on the highways because the minimum speed on the highway is 45mph and they can only go 40mph. The internet has changed and while some browsers are perfectly fine for doing relatively simple tasks that have been around for a long time (the slower city roads) it cannot accomplish the more difficult, possibly more useful tasks (the new highway).

Possibly more useful? Nah, the stuff you can get in IE6 is definitely more useful than the stuff you can't. Not that it's an either or, or anything.
It's the entertainment stuff that suffers most from having an old browser, anyway, so that's usually just another reason to not upgrade.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

jules.lt wrote:
KestrelLowing wrote:I think a better analogy would be a car that can not travel on the highways because the minimum speed on the highway is 45mph and they can only go 40mph. The internet has changed and while some browsers are perfectly fine for doing relatively simple tasks that have been around for a long time (the slower city roads) it cannot accomplish the more difficult, possibly more useful tasks (the new highway).

Possibly more useful? Nah, the stuff you can get in IE6 is definitely more useful than the stuff you can't. Not that it's an either or, or anything.
It's the entertainment stuff that suffers most from having an old browser, anyway, so that's usually just another reason to not upgrade.
Actually, I don't see anything that I need IE6 to access in my usual web browsing. There are certain corporate apps designed for it specifically, sure, but that does not make your statement anywhere near correct. More importantly, it's a browser that is bloated and not really patched, and that makes it ripe for security holes.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:46 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:Except that it is like a car with broken breaks instead of a rusty looking car. I think this is where our opinions differs.

I, for one, have never heard of an old browser killing or even hurting someone. I might be wrong, of course. But I wouldn't want to push that analogy too far.
But yes, here it clearly differs.

Dauric wrote:The underlined is incorrect. The provider of a service is there to make money by providing a service to the customer that makes the customers work easier. If providing said service fails to produce profit for the provider, then there is no reason for the provider to provide said service.

From the point of view of the customer, the one we have been talking about, it is not incorrect. It might not be all the reason, granted, but it is still valid. And if the service does not work for the customer, because the service provider simply decided to break it without any further reasoning than "It's an old software you use, dude, use the new one, because it is newer", then there is no reason for the customer to pay for that service any longer. They can easily switch to another one that does provide said service.

Dauric wrote:Legacy support, by it's very nature as supporting technologies that are in the process of being replaced, is a declining revenue stream. At some point that declining revenue crosses the point that it no longer supports the expense of maintaining the legacy support.

Well, of course, but we are talking about deliberately breaking support for no further reason than breaking support. Google still works in IE3 and probably even older ones. I do not expect that to change in the near future. I might be wrong, sure, but nothing at all points in that direction.
We are not talking about ancient hardware or nearly forgotten programming languages, we are talking, basically, about basic html. And that still works and is not being replaced. It has simply been "enhanced".

achan1058 wrote:Actually, I don't see anything that I need IE6 to access in my usual web browsing.

And some people don't see anything that they need anything else than IE6 for to access.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby achan1058 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:09 am UTC

Enthalpie wrote:
achan1058 wrote:Except that it is like a car with broken breaks instead of a rusty looking car. I think this is where our opinions differs.

I, for one, have never heard of an old browser killing or even hurting someone. I might be wrong, of course. But I wouldn't want to push that analogy too far.
But yes, here it clearly differs.
Except, if your computer got hacked because of an old browser loophole and becomes part of a bot net or something, it's not your own problem anymore. It's a different scenario from say you using Lotus 1-2-3 or something. In that case I would care less.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:18 am UTC

Enthalpie wrote:And I honestly thought we were talking (mostly) about IE5/6, not the prehistoric ones.
The prehistoric ones aren't always prehistoric. At some point, it was decided that IE3 wouldn't be supported any longer and anyone using would just have to upgrade or deal with a broken browser.

As others have indicated IE6's creator doesn't support it any longer. IE6 requires that web designers take a plethora of special steps and workarounds thus decreasing their efficiency thus incrementally dragging down the speed of web development worldwide.

It has to be decided at some point that older software is finally going to be forgotten so that people can spend more time developing new products and features instead of jerry rigging their product into compatibility with something that's obsolete. If Microsoft doesn't support it, if the browser itself doesn't meet the standards of today, if the browser functional is a drain on any individual, team, department, or company who needs to...what's the problem in moving on?
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Enthalpie » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:17 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:The prehistoric ones aren't always prehistoric. At some point, it was decided that IE3 wouldn't be supported any longer and anyone using would just have to upgrade or deal with a broken browser.

As others have indicated IE6's creator doesn't support it any longer. IE6 requires that web designers take a plethora of special steps and workarounds thus decreasing their efficiency thus incrementally dragging down the speed of web development worldwide.

It has to be decided at some point that older software is finally going to be forgotten so that people can spend more time developing new products and features instead of jerry rigging their product into compatibility with something that's obsolete. If Microsoft doesn't support it, if the browser itself doesn't meet the standards of today, if the browser functional is a drain on any individual, team, department, or company who needs to...what's the problem in moving on?

Well, Google still works with at least IE3 (didn't test it with the older ones) and will as long as it uses basic html.
Now, would you, were you Google, deliberately break search for all browsers older than, say, three years, blocking them and instead displaying a message which basically says "you bad!"? No? Then we seem to actually agree, as this is what I have been arguing for quite some time and repeated a couple of times.
And even if you disagree, most of the Internet and especially Google agrees. Which does not automatically makes it right, of course.

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby bittyx » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:59 am UTC

@Enthalpie: You seem to be constantly repeating that Google still works with IE3. I think it's a bit disingenuous to call this "working".

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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Randomizer » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:48 am UTC

For some things new is better or enables something that wasn't possible before. For others it sucks balls. I remember when Flash was just starting to be the next big thing and everyone was slapping Flash intros on their webpages. It got so much negative feedback, even this book on coding Flash I bought advised people "Don't force people to sit through Flash intros in order to enter your site!" Although these days it seems to be toned down a bit and used more for what it's good for - games and Homestarrunner.

I'm still miffed that Yahoo dial-up maps are gone. Sure google has some html ones, but the Yahoo version was better. I used to play around looking up places with that all the time. "Oo, I wonder how far it is to go from X to Y? Oh, what a cool map they made me with all the streets filled in. Neat-o!" I'd even use it when I needed directions/a map to somewhere. Wowzers! When they disabled the classic version I basically just stopped using online maps altogether.

I absolutely hate the way google images works when you have javascript turned on. Yeah, I don't need the pic making the rest of the web page inaccessible until I click off of it, up in the top left corner is fine, thanks. :p As long as they don't kill javascript-less image searching like Yahoo killed classic/dialup maps I'll be fine. It would be nice if there was a button I could check in my settings to select which mode I wanted, though, because for some google things I need javascript on and for others I want it off so I keep having to toggle it. So I guess the question for me is not, will they still support my browser (I mean, I've got two browsers, if something doesn't work in one I can just use the other) but will they start breaking things I care about? I'll see how it plays out.
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As far as what I do for browser support on my own website... well, until the day when I get paid for making websites the only thing I'm supporting is whatever screen resolution/browser combo happens to be on my own system. :p Just pray you have at least 1920*1200 resolution if you ever happen to stumble upon it. But deliberately not supporting a browser would be extra effort, and if I can't be arsed to check that it runs in all of Safari, Chrome, IE∞, Firefox, Opera, etc., I'm not going to go out of my way to make sure my site doesn't work in some old browser I'm ignoring anyway, on the off chance it happens to be functional in said old browser.

I might put up a "Works best in IE5" tag for shits n' giggles though. :D
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby jules.LT » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:13 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:
jules.lt wrote:Possibly more useful? Nah, the stuff you can get in IE6 is definitely more useful than the stuff you can't. Not that it's an either or, or anything.
It's the entertainment stuff that suffers most from having an old browser, anyway, so that's usually just another reason to not upgrade.
Actually, I don't see anything that I need IE6 to access in my usual web browsing. There are certain corporate apps designed for it specifically, sure, but that does not make your statement anywhere near correct. More importantly, it's a browser that is bloated and not really patched, and that makes it ripe for security holes.

*sigh*
I never said that you needed IE6 for lots of stuff, only that the stuff the you get in any browser as modern as IE6 is way more important than the extra stuff you get in a modern browser. Note the "not that it's an either or, or anything".
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

Enthalpie wrote:Now, would you, were you Google, deliberately break search for all browsers older than, say, three years, blocking them and instead displaying a message which basically says "you bad!"? No? Then we seem to actually agree, as this is what I have been arguing for quite some time and repeated a couple of times.
And even if you disagree, most of the Internet and especially Google agrees. Which does not automatically makes it right, of course.
PFfftfhasdfasdfj wait, do I actually get to answer your question? 'cause you kind of just assumed my answer there?

Google is not "deliberately break"ing things. They are ceasing to care if updates break things. There IS a difference between "yeah we're not gonna put effort into ensuring compatibility here" and "we are going to make effort to ensure incompatibility here."

Can I ask if you've ever worked in web design? When I was working in that field two years ago IE6 was ALREADY old, prehistoric, and a drain on productivity due to additional testing and editing. I would have taken a metaphorical sledgehammer to IE6 THEN if I could've.
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Re: Google discontinuing support for old browsers

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

I think Enthalpie is still hung up about the one or two people who flippantly remarked that they *should* intentionally break things to force people to get better browsers.

The problem is, Enthalpie seems to have missed the fact that no one else is or ever really was taking that suggestion seriously.
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