19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

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19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Ryom » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:08 pm UTC

http://truthfornews.wordpress.com/2011/ ... -bus-fare/

When police stopped a teenager stepping off the T-train yesterday to show his transfer as proof he’d paid his fare – $2 at most – he ran from them. They shot him as many as 10 times in the back and neck, according to witnesses. For many long minutes, as a crowd watched in horror, the boy, who had fallen to the sidewalk a block away, lay in a quickly growing pool of blood writhing in pain and trying to lift himself up as the cops trained their guns on him and threatened bystanders.
The site posted has a definite bias, here is the other side:
San Francisco police shot and killed a 19-year-old man after he fired upon them during a foot chase Saturday. The deceased, a Washington state parolee wanted for questioning in the slaying of a pregnant woman in Seattle last week, was shot while fleeing from police trying to cite him for evading bus fare:

I have a feeling that we should try to mimic certain European countries a bit more here, police simply do not carry guns save for emergencies. There is no call to shoot someone in the back, as the witnesses at the scene stated that he was unarmed and fleeing.
Last edited by Ryom on Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:35 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby mmmcannibalism » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:12 pm UTC

I feel the problem is less guns and more some police think they are state employed bad guy shooters.

edit--rest of article makes that view possibly not related to this story.
Last edited by mmmcannibalism on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:18 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:13 pm UTC

That is such a miserably overblown article I'm certain I don't have all of the story. I reserve judgment until then.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Ryom » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:14 pm UTC

I hit submit too early, the rest of it is posted. He was wanted for questioning in a murder according to the police. Unfortunately also according to the police he was armed and firing at them, when the witnesses at the scene say he was unarmed and fleeing.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:18 pm UTC

Alright, here's the story according to the article the poster linked:

The cops find the person and he takes off running. As the chase continues, he pulls a gun and then starts shooting. The officers return fire, killing him.

I have no problem with the officer's conduct here.

I know this is going to be controversial here, but I'm a bit more inclined to trust the cops than the witnesses. The witnesses only saw part of the picture: they may have seen the person fleeing, but not seen the shots as he'd already run past. The cops, on the other hand, would damn well be able to tell if they've been shot at.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby broken_escalator » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:20 pm UTC

I read about the riot it caused but the CBS page didn't really have much information either. It did say the victim allegedly fired and fled, but your mileage may vary.

I'm remaining skeptical since they didn't say if the weapon was retrieved.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Ulc » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:22 pm UTC

Right now, all that can be said is that the article linked is so extremely biased to as to be entirely useless as news. It's downright absurd, and the news really shouldn't have been posted until a at least somewhat decent site could be cited.

A good rule of thump. If a piece of text keeps talking mostly about how angry the author is, and uses multiple exclamation marks to say this, it's not news, it's a opinion piece, and should under no circumstances be posted as news. Doesn't help it's case that the author has named his site "truthfornews".. obviously such a unbiased and high integrity journalistic thing to name you page.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby JBJ » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:24 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:I'm remaining skeptical since they didn't say if the weapon was retrieved.

According to this, a gun was retrieved.
... had been told by Seattle police that ballistics tests would be conducted on a .45-caliber pistol recovered after the San Francisco incident to see if it was used in the killing of Gilbert.

Suhr said San Francisco investigators recovered the weapon after cell phone video taken after the shooting was posted online showing a witness retrieving the gun and running off with it.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:27 pm UTC

My god people wake up!

My god, her use of cliche goes up to 11.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Dauric » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:28 pm UTC

Investigation of incident underway. Internet blogger looking for reasons to be indignant. More in our next half hour. Back to you Bob.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby broken_escalator » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:30 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:According to this, a gun was retrieved.

That is good to hear, not the shooting part... the gun retrieval part.

You know what I mean. :?

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Xeio » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
broken_escalator wrote:I'm remaining skeptical since they didn't say if the weapon was retrieved.

According to this, a gun was retrieved.
... had been told by Seattle police that ballistics tests would be conducted on a .45-caliber pistol recovered after the San Francisco incident to see if it was used in the killing of Gilbert.

Suhr said San Francisco investigators recovered the weapon after cell phone video taken after the shooting was posted online showing a witness retrieving the gun and running off with it.
What the fuck? Who picks up a gun and runs off with it after a shooting?

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby broken_escalator » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:50 pm UTC

My guess is they thought they could sell it illegally for a sizable amount of cash.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:51 pm UTC

Likely somebody who really, really wants a gun.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby JBJ » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:58 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:What the fuck? Who picks up a gun and runs off with it after a shooting?

Some guy in a gray and white striped hoodie?
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby iChef » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:33 pm UTC

Yeah you shoot at the cops what the hell do you expect. As to the guy who picked up the gun after, he's lucky he didn't get shot as well. The police after already being shot at see you picking up a gun, you don't deserve to be shot but I could see it happening. Plus (speaking from experience) illegal guns are cheap and plentiful. A handgun on the street can go for as little as $50-$200. Not worth all the evidence tampering BS you will get charged with for grabbing the thing.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby MartianInvader » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:39 pm UTC

Well, $200 is a lot of money for some people. Not condoning taking it, of course, but it may have been worth the risk from his point of view.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby Ryom » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:06 am UTC

Police said detectives have learned that Harding was a person of interest in the Seattle shooting. The gun used to the San Francisco shootout was found after police received tips to its whereabouts. It will be tested to see if it matches bullets used in the murder of Tanaya Gilbert. The testing could take days or weeks.
Amateur video footage of the exchange showed that a passerby picked up Harding's handgun after the shootout and took it from the area before investigators were able to establish a crime scene, police said.
But with the help of witnesses, police were able to identify the person who took the gun, and recovered it Sunday afternoon.


Who on earth just picks up a gun used in a shootout and walks off? :|

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:17 am UTC

A friend of the shooter, perhaps. Or somebody who wants a gun.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:37 am UTC

By the way, I'm submitting a request for a thread title change. He wasn't shot over a bus fare, he was killed in a gunfight.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:42 am UTC

Ryom wrote:
Police said detectives have learned that Harding was a person of interest in the Seattle shooting. The gun used to the San Francisco shootout was found after police received tips to its whereabouts. It will be tested to see if it matches bullets used in the murder of Tanaya Gilbert. The testing could take days or weeks.
Amateur video footage of the exchange showed that a passerby picked up Harding's handgun after the shootout and took it from the area before investigators were able to establish a crime scene, police said.
But with the help of witnesses, police were able to identify the person who took the gun, and recovered it Sunday afternoon.


Who on earth just picks up a gun used in a shootout and walks off? :|


Not sure on details and I think this isn't the situation here, but if I found a gun and had a legal* way of storing it; I would probably pick it up at the very least so I could turn it into the police later.

*as in, if the city banned concealed carry I would call the cops and wait.
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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby johnny_7713 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:15 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Ryom wrote:
Police said detectives have learned that Harding was a person of interest in the Seattle shooting. The gun used to the San Francisco shootout was found after police received tips to its whereabouts. It will be tested to see if it matches bullets used in the murder of Tanaya Gilbert. The testing could take days or weeks.
Amateur video footage of the exchange showed that a passerby picked up Harding's handgun after the shootout and took it from the area before investigators were able to establish a crime scene, police said.
But with the help of witnesses, police were able to identify the person who took the gun, and recovered it Sunday afternoon.


Who on earth just picks up a gun used in a shootout and walks off? :|


Not sure on details and I think this isn't the situation here, but if I found a gun and had a legal* way of storing it; I would probably pick it up at the very least so I could turn it into the police later.

*as in, if the city banned concealed carry I would call the cops and wait.


From a forensics point of view I'm thinking the police would prefer it if you just called them and remained in the vicinity to make sure no one touched it until they arrived.

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Re: 19 Year Old Fatally Shot in Back By Cops Over Bus Fare

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:44 am UTC

johnny_7713 wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:
Ryom wrote:
Police said detectives have learned that Harding was a person of interest in the Seattle shooting. The gun used to the San Francisco shootout was found after police received tips to its whereabouts. It will be tested to see if it matches bullets used in the murder of Tanaya Gilbert. The testing could take days or weeks.
Amateur video footage of the exchange showed that a passerby picked up Harding's handgun after the shootout and took it from the area before investigators were able to establish a crime scene, police said.
But with the help of witnesses, police were able to identify the person who took the gun, and recovered it Sunday afternoon.


Who on earth just picks up a gun used in a shootout and walks off? :|


Not sure on details and I think this isn't the situation here, but if I found a gun and had a legal* way of storing it; I would probably pick it up at the very least so I could turn it into the police later.

*as in, if the city banned concealed carry I would call the cops and wait.


From a forensics point of view I'm thinking the police would prefer it if you just called them and remained in the vicinity to make sure no one touched it until they arrived.


But would anyone expect a 'normal law-abiding citizen' to actually hang around in an area that has gunfights, waiting for the cops to show up? Especially with the whole 'snitches get stitches' thing?

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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby LtNOWIS » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Apparently, forensics say that the suspect was shot in the leg by the cops, then accidentally shot himself in the neck.

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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Glass Fractal » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:03 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:Apparently, forensics say that the suspect was shot in the leg by the cops, then accidentally shot himself in the neck.


I have to agree with Ronald Cruz, that's a ridiculous story. I can't even see how its supposed to work.

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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby mmmcannibalism » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:54 am UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:
LtNOWIS wrote:Apparently, forensics say that the suspect was shot in the leg by the cops, then accidentally shot himself in the neck.


I have to agree with Ronald Cruz, that's a ridiculous story. I can't even see how its supposed to work.


Guy trips while holding gun, at some point arm is pointing gun towards head; gun is fired by someone not thinking about finger control while falling. Depending on how the shot went into/through the neck thats pretty feasible.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Роберт » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:47 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Glass Fractal wrote:
LtNOWIS wrote:Apparently, forensics say that the suspect was shot in the leg by the cops, then accidentally shot himself in the neck.


I have to agree with Ronald Cruz, that's a ridiculous story. I can't even see how its supposed to work.


Guy trips while holding gun, at some point arm is pointing gun towards head; gun is fired by someone not thinking about finger control while falling. Depending on how the shot went into/through the neck thats pretty feasible.

It's certainlypossible for someone to accidentally shoot themselves.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby scrovak » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:12 pm UTC

Ryom wrote:I have a feeling that we should try to mimic certain European countries a bit more here, police simply do not carry guns save for emergencies.


Utterly ludicrous.

You do realize that if someone wants a gun, they'll get it. Gun laws are for law abiding citizens. Restricting or blocking them from use prevents law abiding citizens from getting them, however will not discourage the mass sale, flow, import, and misuse of illegal firearms on the streets. Taking guns away from the police force means that when a criminal with a gun is shooting a place up, LEOs won't be able to do jack shit aside asking him to stop, pretty please.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:46 pm UTC

That sounds rather like an emergency to me - something for which an exception was explicitly made.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby DSenette » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:04 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:That sounds rather like an emergency to me - something for which an exception was explicitly made.

this is random out loud wondering because i don't know how the police force in europe (mainly GB, i think other european forces carry weapons). in general, isn't there a specific armed force? like a regular beat cop has a truncheon and what not, but it's not like he's got a 12 guage in the trunk of his cruiser. there's a specific group of guys that have the guns right? if this is the case, doesn't that only work because the country is, well pretty damned small (comparatively) so you can afford to have 1.5 police forces (the regular one that's not armed and then a proportionally smaller armed force).

if this isn't the case, and every officer has a gun in the car, they're just not allowed to carry it around. then how does that actually serve in an emergency. you pull up in the car, walk up to the door of an apartment, when the door opens there's a dude with a gun/knife/rabid wombat with obvious intent to bash your skull in. do you then leg it back to the cruiser?
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Belial » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:15 pm UTC

The Benny Hill theme plays the whole way.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Kulantan » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 pm UTC

The answer is obvious when you think about it.

There are few wombats in GB and what few there are don't get rabies too often given they are in a zoo.

Also, replace wombat with gun and this is broadly true.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby DSenette » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:19 pm UTC

Belial wrote:The Benny Hill theme plays the whole way.

i was hoping that was the case. if they get ambushed in a corridor of an apartment complex, do they do the thing where everyone runs through doors chasing after each other, and they come out through different doors, and eventually there's a gorilla?
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:19 pm UTC

It would just be silly if there wasn't a gorilla.

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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Belial » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

Truly well-trained cops can series-change midway through the scene to scooby-doo. They have to explain why they can't pass piss tests anymore and also their partner is a great dane, but on the upside the felon in question is immediately converted into a harmless amusement park owner in a rubber mask. It's kindof a last resort thing.
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Re: 19 year old suspect shot by SFPD

Postby Radical_Initiator » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:Also, replace wombat with gun and this is broadly true.


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