Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
charliepanayi
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:26 pm UTC
Location: London, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:27 am UTC

Mambrino wrote:
Diadem wrote:And Messi got the golden ball (for best player)? Seriously? The guy was almost completely invisible this entire tournament. He scored like 1 important goal, yeah, but both the semi final and the final were huge no-shows for him. Sure he's the best player in the world, but this particular tournament there were 2 dozen better players, at least.


Here we speculated if his quite ...apathetic(?) attitude towards the prize was him being "wtf Blatter this doesn't belong to me", or was it 'just' that they lost the Wolrd Cup final a moment ago.


I imagine nobody wants to get a meaningless bauble when they've just lost the World Cup final.
"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying"

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:44 am UTC

Boateng MotM for anyone else?

User avatar
PolakoVoador
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:11 pm UTC
Location: Brazil

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:00 pm UTC

roband wrote:Boateng MotM for anyone else?


I'm not sure, but I think it would be fair. Btw, Boateng made a great World Cup overall, maybe the best defender in the whole Cup.

Negated wrote:I am glad that Germany won it in the end. The final was very even and decided by the smallest margin. But over the entire tournament Germany was the best team of all.

Lahm, Boateng, Hummels, Schweinsteiger all had an amazing game. I don't think Schweinsteiger can move for the next 2 days after all the kicks and punches he received.

I'm also glad Germany won, they've been the best team since the last World Cup.

Man, Schweinsteiger was beaten badly. Near the end of the match, I caught myself saying "Holy crap, another german down. Wait, is it Schweinsteiger again? Is he already back on the field?"

Anyway, props for Argentina for upping their game in the final and being a hard match for Germany. I don't think they played this solid in any other match during the World Cup.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:51 pm UTC

No real argument with giving the Golden Glove to Neuer, but I was kind of hoping that Ochoa would win it. I think he turned in the more impressive performance as a goal keeper (especially against Brazil), while Neuer was the best central defender wearing funny clothes.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
Negated
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:31 am UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:19 pm UTC

It's been a tournament with many fine goalkeeping performances. Goalkeepers like Ochoa and Howard made one after another spectacular reaction saves. But Neuer was really at another level. He could do the same reaction saves, but he also dominated the air, had great hands to launch the ball forward quickly and accurately to start a counter attack, and was extremely proactive to snuff out dangers before they could have a shot. He made Germany's high defense line possible.

Rodion Raskolnikov
Alyona Ivanovna knows what you did last summer
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:29 pm UTC

And he does a great Harald Schumacher impression.

Yo Rodja's kind of a dick, those are the facts / He murdered a pawnbroker with an axe
Now Dosoyevsky is here to teach you / About his problems with the philosophy of Nietzsche


~ ahammel

User avatar
charliepanayi
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:26 pm UTC
Location: London, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:57 pm UTC

Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:And he does a great Harald Schumacher impression.


Aside from his clash with Higuain was totally accidental and Schumacher's incident was most definitely not.
"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying"

Rodion Raskolnikov
Alyona Ivanovna knows what you did last summer
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:05 pm UTC

It obviously wasn't as bad as Schumacher, but he knew exactly what he was doing.

Yo Rodja's kind of a dick, those are the facts / He murdered a pawnbroker with an axe
Now Dosoyevsky is here to teach you / About his problems with the philosophy of Nietzsche


~ ahammel

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:37 pm UTC

Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:It obviously wasn't as bad as Schumacher, but he knew exactly what he was doing.

That's your opinion, and you're also looking at it skewed.

Was it legal? Of course it was. End of conversation.

Rodion Raskolnikov
Alyona Ivanovna knows what you did last summer
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:47 pm UTC

roband wrote:
Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:It obviously wasn't as bad as Schumacher, but he knew exactly what he was doing.

That's your opinion, and you're also looking at it skewed.

Was it legal? Of course it was. End of conversation.


And that's your opinion. Which is no more valid than mine. So, no, it's not the end of conversation if you don't mind.

Of course the move wasn't legal, the referee made a mistake. If a defender made a similar challenge while going for a header it's a freekick 10 times out of 10. And if by some freak of the rules it is a legal challenge, it shouldn't be. A couple of inches to one side and Neuer's knee would have hit Higuain in the side of the head at serious speed. It was a dangerous move.

Yo Rodja's kind of a dick, those are the facts / He murdered a pawnbroker with an axe
Now Dosoyevsky is here to teach you / About his problems with the philosophy of Nietzsche


~ ahammel

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:53 pm UTC

A defender could never go for a ball like that, because he's not allowed to use his arms.

Neuer is allowed to challenge for the ball, using his hands if he wishes. He did so, he won the ball (which was clearly his intention).

Your opinion is the "he knew what he was doing" part. Meaning you think it was cynical. I disagree, that's an opinion too.

Whether it's legal or not is a different matter. There's no opinion, it was or it wasn't.

Rodion Raskolnikov
Alyona Ivanovna knows what you did last summer
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:00 pm UTC

Which is why I specifically said "If a defender made a similar challenge while going for a header".

There's no argument whether or not Neuer won the ball, I'm talking about what happened after that. You know, the bit where he clattered into the opposition player's head with his thigh/hip at high speed. Cleary his intention was to win the ball. It's equally clear he intended to take out anything or anyone in his way in the process. Do you think he was surprised to make contact with Higuian?

As for the legality, it's still pretty much an opinion. It depends how the rules about challenges like that are interpreted. Many controversial issues are not black or white.

Yo Rodja's kind of a dick, those are the facts / He murdered a pawnbroker with an axe
Now Dosoyevsky is here to teach you / About his problems with the philosophy of Nietzsche


~ ahammel

User avatar
Sytri
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:00 am UTC
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Sytri » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:31 am UTC

I looked at this challenge on youtube (didn't see the match originally) I have to agree with Rodion Raskolnikov.

The challenge was OK in the sense that he went for the ball and got it, also getting the ball before hitting the player. But it was a reckless challenge. Going up that high, knee first is reckless.

You can't compare it to if a defender did it because it's a movement a defender just wouldn't do, but it was a dangerous tackle. If he'd have caught him more fully he could have done some serious damage.

edit for spelling
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:46 am UTC

It wasn't a tackle. Nobody was in possession. His knee being up is consistent with the jump he's making.

Are you one of those people who think it's handball every time the ball touches an arm? Sometimes body parts are in the position they are because they have to be.

edit: "you" isn't necessarily YOU.

User avatar
Sytri
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:00 am UTC
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Sytri » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:00 am UTC

No I'm not, but I'm fully aware of what a knee to the head at speed does to someone. Yes he made the jump and got the ball, I'm not arguing against him winning the tackle, they both challenged for it. But it doesn't make it any less reckless. Watch the replay again, see that but for the fact Neuer had reached the peak of his jump a little bit before he hit Higuain he would've kneed him right in the side of the head. At speed. If the same challenge happened just in front of the goal with neither player really moving then it's fine. The recklessness comes from the potential for harm to the opposition player.

FIFA rules: Direct free kick:
  • Jumps at an opponent
  • Charges an opponent
  • pushes an opponent
carelessly, recklessly or with excessive force.

Also a foul is committed if the ball is in play, committed by a player and occurs on the field of play.

Ball was in play, committed by a player on the field. Jumped at the opponent carelessly/ recklessly. So it was a foul.

Which part don't you agree with?
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:06 am UTC

To add to what Sytri wrote (Nice ninja'ing there!):

You're always allowed to contest your opponent for the ball (except the keeper within his protected zone), but not in every way. There is such a thing as dangerous play. For example if a field player makes a very high kick to get possession of the ball that's 'dangerous play', and the opposing side gets an indirect free kick. What exactly constitutes dangerous play is up to the discretion of the referee, (the rules, as Sytri quotes above, are intentionally vague) but I'd say this definitely qualities.

A dangerous play that doesn't result in contact is an indirect free kick. But if it does result in contact it's considered a foul, and should be followed by a direct free kick / penalty.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:08 am UTC

Keepers jump towards players all the time. Either there should be a lot more penalties given out during corners, or there's another law which covers this.

If he'd been sent off, or even carded (because a penalty is given if either is the case), something is very wrong.
It just seems more aggressive than normal goalkeeper challenges, because it's at the edge of the box rather than near the 6-yard box.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:13 am UTC

roband wrote:Keepers jump towards players all the time. Either there should be a lot more penalties given out during corners, or there's another law which covers this.

Yes, there is a another law covering this.

Notice there are always 2 demarcated areas in front of each goal. The outer one is the penalty area, a foul in this area is punished by a penalty instead of a free kick. The inner one is the protected area for the keeper. Within this, the keeper is protected, and you are not allowed to challenge him for the ball. This basically means he has free reign. If he jumps and you are in the way, it's your fault.

But that is only within the protected area. Outside, he is a normal player.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Sytri
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:00 am UTC
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Sytri » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:19 am UTC

roband wrote:Keepers jump towards players all the time. Either there should be a lot more penalties given out during corners, or there's another law which covers this.



Again, I said that if the challenge was a bit closer to goal and/ or at less of a speed Neuer hitting him and knocking him over would be completely acceptable. It's the speed that makes the difference in the challenge. That's all. Really, should have been a penalty and maybe a yellow card. Ideally penalty and the ref has a word with the keeper about keeping calm.
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:35 am UTC

Higuain was also travelling at speed. It's not like Neuer hit a static target.

User avatar
Sytri
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:00 am UTC
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Sytri » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:42 am UTC

roband wrote:Higuain was also travelling at speed. It's not like Neuer hit a static target.


I'm not saying that he did. The speed of both challengers made it reckless. It's still a foul. I'm not saying that Neuer should be red carded or banned or made to live in a cave till he realises the error of his ways. I'm saying that it was a reckless challenge that should have been a penalty. Goalkeepers get far more leeway with challenges because they have to keep putting themselves in danger a lot more than the rest of the team. That tackle could have been just as bad for him aswell.
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

leady
Posts: 1592
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:28 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby leady » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:49 am UTC

Whilst debateable in the rules (ala handball being "deliberate") - for a long time now in precident goal keepers get the benefit of the doubt under practically every circumstance. No profressional referee should give that when he's reached the ball, all should similarly red card him if he misses.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:22 pm UTC

We can all agree that Garay should have been sent off for trying to murder Kramer, right?
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:53 pm UTC

*battles crippling post-World-Cup ennui*

So, Burnley are back in the Premier League, eh? I remember when they knocked off Manchester United in their first home game in the Prem back in the year nine. I hope they stay up.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
Cathode Ray Sunshine
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:05 am UTC
Location: Dominican Republic

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:58 pm UTC

Hey you guys wanna hear a joke?































Manchester United.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:54 am UTC

We'll see who's laughing when they beat MK Dons 1-0 in the Championship next season.

Elsewhere:

http://bbc.com/sport/football/28962031

Ludogoretz Razgrad are down a goal going into the aim second leg of their champions league tie. They score in the ninetieth minute to force extra time. Their keeper is sent off in the hundred and nineteenth minute with all the subs played. A central defender takes over in goal for PKs, scores the first one himself, then saves two to win it.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
charliepanayi
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:26 pm UTC
Location: London, UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:03 am UTC

The Ludogorets thing was great. And a Cypriot team made the group stages - hooray!
"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying"

User avatar
Negated
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:31 am UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:28 pm UTC

CL group draw is out. God hates Man City, Ajax, and Italians.

Rodion Raskolnikov
Alyona Ivanovna knows what you did last summer
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:42 pm UTC

Lots of people seem to be comparing Alan Hutton to a marauding, world-cup-winning right-back and are suggesting he could even play centre midfield for Villa this season.

Personally I think it's just Hutton dressed as Lahm.

(Stolen from a comment on the Guardian)

Yo Rodja's kind of a dick, those are the facts / He murdered a pawnbroker with an axe
Now Dosoyevsky is here to teach you / About his problems with the philosophy of Nietzsche


~ ahammel

User avatar
zombie_monkey
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:26 pm UTC
Location: Bulgaria

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby zombie_monkey » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:11 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:The Ludogorets thing was great.


Heh, I was at bar further away from the stadium deliberately and wasn't watching the game, and at one point, at the end of the 90 mins some friends also arrived because they were expecting the fans to occupy the bars closer and they were five minutes away. Told me Ludogorets scored in the last minute, and they didn't know that meant extra time. I actually found out what happened the next day.

The defender who took over in the 119 minute as keeper first also saved the free kick for which the GK was sent off, and he's also a former player of the city rivals of Steaua.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:06 pm UTC

Man, it's weird seeing Frank Lampard playing in a City jersey. And it's really weird seeing him score against Chelsea to rescue a point.

Jesus Man U, if you're going to murder QPR like that, the least you can do is beat Leicester the next week. Going right back to sucking is just impolite.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
Carlington
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:46 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Carlington » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:52 am UTC

I have no idea if anyone here even knows that Australian football exists, but it does, and my team just finally won their first match of the season, after four draws and six losses, and god it feels good to see three points go up after two and a half months of watching us take the lead and then blow it after an hour of play.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

User avatar
roband
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:29 pm UTC

I full-on don't understand Aussie rules. I've seen it, I don't get it. I'd like to try.

What's the name of your team Carlington?

User avatar
Carlington
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:46 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Carlington » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:10 am UTC

No, not Aussie Rules, I wouldn't put that in the football football thread! Sorry, I didn't make that as clear as I could've. The A-League, I wasn't sure if anyone actually knew we had a league down here though. My team's the Newcastle Jets.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

Wonderbolt
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:11 pm UTC

Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:23 pm UTC

This thread's been inactive for a while, and there's a lot of pretty interesting matches! Currently watching Holland v Spain, currently 2-0. It's... a bit of a weird match, but I like it. :3


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests