SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

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SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:10 pm UTC

So, slow news day apparently.

Link

Obama is down in Columbia, and has staff with him, including the Secret Service. Secret service members hire sex workers, but one guy has an argument about the payment, police get called in. Dispute is settled, but it's a breech of security or something because it's blackmail material or something. Meantime, it's a political detriment, somehow, which I don't understand, as these are diplomats Obama is dealing with; theft and whoring are SOP for them*, so it's only a "scandal" if Obama can't figure out how to laugh it off.

*Yeah, probably personal bias. I kind of hate diplomats.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby sourmìlk » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:02 pm UTC

Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid. But a member of Obama's staff behaved inappropriately on his own time. This shit happens, I agree that there's not much of a scandal here.

But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby notzeb » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:05 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?
How does "Servicegate" sound?
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby mmmcannibalism » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:06 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid. But a member of Obama's staff behaved inappropriately on his own time. This shit happens, I agree that there's not much of a scandal here.

But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?


Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby poxic » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:15 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:"Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate

Excellent. Sufficiently long and silly.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Tirian » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:58 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate


Except it's really a part of Thisneverhappenedwhenourpresidentwasamericangate which has been going on for nearly three and a half years now.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:31 am UTC

Tirian wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate


Except it's really a part of Thisneverhappenedwhenourpresidentwasamericangate which has been going on for nearly three and a half years now.


Please, that scandal is just manufactured by this whole FundamentalistsHaveDecidedThatOurPresidentIsn'tAmericanBecauseHe'sBlackAndThereforeEvilGate.

(use camel case, it's easier to read).
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:15 am UTC

I hate the -gate suffix. Call it fuckinggate. Simple, and as expressive as its root.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:18 am UTC

I second that suggestion. But I agree, the -gate suffix has really been abused since watergategate.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:21 am UTC

"-gate" isn't nearly as bad as "payola"; we live in a time when most people have never even heard of Victrola, or the original payola scandal. At least people vaguely remember what happened at Watergate.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:24 am UTC

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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby buddy431 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:36 am UTC

Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging? I mean, no, this is no Iran-Contra, but come on, these guys should have known better, and they should get canned, if the allegations are true.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:43 am UTC

buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Thesh » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:05 am UTC

But if prostitution were legal, wouldn't that destroy the institution of marriage? Won't somebody think of the children?!

Really, who do you think you are to suggest that someone should be able to engage in an act they enjoy, with consent of all parties involved, that would be legal if it weren't for the monetary exchange?
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby buddy431 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:10 am UTC

It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response. You're supposed to be protecting the president in a foreign country, and you're representing the United States in you actions. So don't do anything embarrassing, even when you're not on duty. Wait on the hookers until you have some vacation time.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Tirian » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:16 am UTC

buddy431 wrote:It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response.


They snuck unvetted people into an otherwise secured hotel in Columbia filled with dignitaries charting out the future of the War on Drugs. Granted, the real world isn't an episode of 24, but you really don't know whose team those hookers are on and breaching your own security to make an exception for them shows an astonishing lack of perspective.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Iulus Cofield » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:18 pm UTC

I think we can all agree that the agents involved probably should be fired or demoted to a non-field position at least, assuming the Secret Service has desk jobs. I have no idea. They are secret after all.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:29 pm UTC

The Secret Service is also in charge of currency related stuff. Mostly Counterfeiting and major fraud. And those responsibilities will certainly have desk jobs.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Gears » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:52 pm UTC

This is a big deal because a secret service agent could be blackmailed into releasing secrets (lest it start a scandal...) and it's not uncommon for Country A to use women to gain secret information from Country B's employees. They should all lose their clearances at the minimum.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby addams » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm UTC

buddy431 wrote:It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response. You're supposed to be protecting the president in a foreign country, and you're representing the United States in you actions. So don't do anything embarrassing, even when you're not on duty. Wait on the hookers until you have some vacation time.

This, just, blows my mind. On duty; Off duty; 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Those guys can not have those jobs without having that drilled into their heads.

Unless; Unless; These are guys that were trained during and after the Bush years.

Yeah; Back to what you do off duty is your own business. Nope. The job that is being discussed here is not that kind of job.

It may very well be a lie. The whole thing could be made up. The men and women that held those kinds of positions, used to be officers. A person may take off the uniform. But; A person was never allowed to forget that the right to wear the uniform does not wash off. It has been earned and is does not go away at the end of a work duty shift.

These are not McD jobs. I call lie. It is a media lie. What proof is there?

Is it a distraction from the business of the heads of state?
What do we want to know about? What makes us indignant?

The boring meetings and stiffs in suits eating food they don't like or Sex? Sex wins, every time.

What is wrong with us? Do we all have arrested development? Or; Is it, just, the media? They know what you want. See the Sex?

What was the meeting about?
Who cares! There was sex!
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby LtNOWIS » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:13 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

It's only legal in one state. And not the part of the state where very many people live.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:18 pm UTC

Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:01 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

It's only legal in one state. And not the part of the state where very many people live.


It's quasi-legal in Rhode Island. Wait, just looked it up, was decriminalized until 2009 *facepalm*.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby meatyochre » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:39 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby johnny_7713 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:23 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.


It happens pretty regularly in first-world or developed countries too, even if prostitution is perfectly legal.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Diadem » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:06 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.

If prostitution is only legal in 2 US states, then ipso facto it is legal to refuse to pay a prostitute in 48 states.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby mike-l » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:41 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to commit the actions leading to incurring the debt in the first place. It's still not legal to refuse to pay your debts. IANAL though, nor am I American, up here it's perfectly legal to exchange money for sex, though certain aspects of getting into that arrangement are not.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Nordic Einar » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid.


It's funny, because sex workers don't have the right to bodily autonomy and it's only just shop lifting to violate that autonomy by with-holding payment. Hilarious.

meatyochre wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.


And a surprising number of them aren't the victims of human trafficking, either here or abroad. Let's not rush to erase the agency of an incredible number of men and women in an effort to protect those without agency.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:28 pm UTC

It's a big deal because individuals responsible for security smuggled uncleared personnel into a secure facility. That would merit an investigation if it were a hot dog vendor found on a military base in Des Moines.

The reason it's making headlines is because it involves boning and is tangentially related to the President (but mostly the boning part).
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby addams » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:01 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.

If, she can get you to marry her, then, she will get paid.

Besides; I am calling Media Lie or Misinformation or whatever it is these days.

Or; There is a chance that these men were trained during the Bush years.
You know; Like the Harley Davisons were such shit during some of the 70's.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Angua » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:24 pm UTC

Colombia prostitute reveals $800 cash row with US agent

Apparently, the agent dealing with this woman agreed to pay her $800, but the next morning only wanted to give her $30.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby mike-l » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:45 pm UTC

That's very different than the $47 in the original article. Or at least, a very different number.

This article also suggests that there was no security issue at all, that these secret service agents had been sent home and were off on their own.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:13 pm UTC

I don't know much about prostitution except when it comes to politics, but isn't that why prostitutes ask for cash in advance? $800 is a lot for an American prostitute, let alone a Central American one.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Diadem » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:58 pm UTC

Generally yeah they ask for payment in advance. For precisely this reason. But I guess it may be different with certain exclusive affairs. Perhaps they initially agreed on a lower price, but halfway the guy wanted additional activities, or extra time?


And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby natraj » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:21 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I don't know much about prostitution except when it comes to politics, but isn't that why prostitutes ask for cash in advance? $800 is a lot for an American prostitute, let alone a Central American one.


$800 is not that much at all if she stayed all night. (Well, in American terms.)

I mean, $150-250/hr is pretty average, so if you negotiate a reduced rate for longer time spans that is the low end of reasonable.

I have no idea what rates are like in Colombia but if they know they are dealing with foreign travelers they may well deal with rates their customers are used to.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:43 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?


Yeah, mod changed that, not me.
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:45 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:This article also suggests that there was no security issue at all, that these secret service agents had been sent home and were off on their own.

After reading around a bit, I may have been taken in by the fearmongering and general douchebaggery of Peter King. There doesn't appear to be evidence that these women were not allowed at the hotel. But my assumption is that the Marine Corps soldiers involved were providing security at the hotel, and when their Secret Service buddies brought home some entertainment, they looked the other way. Probably forgivable after the President has left the country, but the fact that this was prior to his arrival makes security a concern.

Also, while the President wasn't there at the time, it appears members of his staff were. Bringing a stripper to your room when the people you're protecting are next door is probably frowned upon. (Although I bet he patted her down first.)
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:22 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?
Every time I look at the topic, I wonder why there is a WWII topic in News and then remember what it is about.

On topic: the scandal mysteriously started within a few days of the GOP settling on a candidate. What a peculiar "coincidence" :)
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

What $800 gets you in Columbia

Spoiler:
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Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Postby jakovasaur » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:02 pm UTC

Seems like a fair price. That's a quality-looking kayak.
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