Police misbehavior thread

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addams
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:18 am UTC

Really?
You think it is Unions?

I think you may be wrong.
Or; That union is not functioning properly.

I met a woman that spoke of her childhood.
She said her mother would become exasperated and yell,
"Everything in This House Sucks, Except the Vacuum!"

Even The Unions don't Work Right??

Unions are not only about Fair Wages and Safe Working Conditions.
Unions are also about Standards, Training, Open Meetings, Stuff.

In my Spherical Cow world that is what Unions do.

Police work for the Government.
Police are Essential Personal.

Police have a Union?
Yes. It seems they do.
http://iupa.org

If we don't like the way the Police do their Jobs,
What can we do about it? Meetings? Union meetings?
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:46 am UTC

I don't think it's unions either, though they don't help.

That type of respect doesn't just apply to police, but also to doctors, prosecutors, soldiers, judges, pilots and juries. These jobs are demanding, critical to our well-being, and deserve a great deal of respect. These jobs are also difficult and wrongful or mistaken actions can have dire consequences.

The high respect with which these professions are held leads to a willingness to be forgiving of activities with less than desirable results; to overlook mistakes and wrongful behavior. For mistakes, I don't have a problem with that. Everyone makes mistakes; people in these professions are still people; and they're too valuable to sacrifice over an honest mistake.

It's when culpable negligence or malice are involved that the willingness to overlook bad behavior is a problem.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:26 am UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:I am just amused by the whole concept that a policeman can screw up and cost the department hundreds of thousands of dollars in a legal settlement, and then keep his job. I work for an insanely rich company. If I broke a door or something I suspect they would bill me for it.

Unless laws where you live are radically different than where I live, I am pretty sure you can't be held liable for any damage you do to company property while at work. They can fire you for screwing up, but they can't bill you for it. Unless you do it on purpose, of course.

Also:
CorruptUser wrote:Yet if someone slips and falls on my property, I'm liable regardless of whether or not the person was allowed on it.

I'm not a lawyer, but this also sounds wrong to me. In fact I'm pretty sure you're not liable for someone slipping and falling at all, unless that slipping and falling is somehow at least partly your fault (poor maintenance, a freshly mopped floor without warning signs, etc). If someone is on your property illegally, the threshold for liability will be much higher, because there is much less you are reasonably expected to do avoid accidents.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:08 pm UTC

I would suppose the laws in Saudi Arabia and the Netherlands differ in more than a half-dozen minor details.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Paul in Saudi wrote:I am just amused by the whole concept that a policeman can screw up and cost the department hundreds of thousands of dollars in a legal settlement, and then keep his job. I work for an insanely rich company. If I broke a door or something I suspect they would bill me for it.

Unless laws where you live are radically different than where I live, I am pretty sure you can't be held liable for any damage you do to company property while at work. They can fire you for screwing up, but they can't bill you for it. Unless you do it on purpose, of course.

Also:
CorruptUser wrote:Yet if someone slips and falls on my property, I'm liable regardless of whether or not the person was allowed on it.

I'm not a lawyer, but this also sounds wrong to me. In fact I'm pretty sure you're not liable for someone slipping and falling at all, unless that slipping and falling is somehow at least partly your fault (poor maintenance, a freshly mopped floor without warning signs, etc). If someone is on your property illegally, the threshold for liability will be much higher, because there is much less you are reasonably expected to do avoid accidents.

In the Netherlands or in the US?

We are Europeans.
Most of us are.

Even our First People act mostly European.
You guys came up with the Whole Law Thing. (right?)

Laws are Great!
If you believe in them.

How often do you run up against The Law?
Spoiler:
I gave it some thought One Year.

What did I do that was Illegal?
Some stuff. I drove like a Bat Out of Hell.

I learned it from my GrandMother.
She learned it from her Mother.

My Mother Practiced, a lot.
Cars are Fun!

I watched. Then I did it.
I had to Stop doing that.

I am an American.
We needed those Slow Down; Tight Turn signs.

I think we have some of the best roads in the World.
If you want to see The World at 100 miles an hour.

Jesus Christ! Do you know how Big this country is??
You can tootle from one end of your Nation to the other in a Day.

Your roads are better for people that don't have far to go.
Your Main Roads are like our Drive Ways.

Many people Drive on ParkWays and Park in DriveWays.
I Park on ParkWays and Drive down DriveWays.

What does that have to do with Police Misbehavior?

Spoiler:
In my Wild Imagination back SideWays where I came from,
The Police Misbehavior Thread would have too many Cop Car Drag Races and Cop Shoots Cop while playing Cop, stories.

Then in love and concern, we would tell them to "Grow Up!"
Those Cop Car Drag Races are like a Fucking Drug.

So hard to give up.
Just a little bit Naughty and so Surprising to Civilians.

So funny.
Sometimes it is Personal.

Lights Flashing Sirens Screaming Cars pulling over Right and Left and None if it has anything to do with The People.
Why do we Race? ech. Who the Fuck knows? It's like SailBoat Racing. It gets started, then our competitive nature is revealed.

Why do The Police shoot us?
It gets started? Then our competitive nature is revealed?

Who starts that stuff?
What would happen if The Police backed off?

Remember the Lesson of Martin Luther.
The way I heard it:
Spoiler:
Martin Luthar was a Good Priest.
Sort of Weird, but better than ok.

Of course, people were on their Best Behavoir around him.
He Loved The People. He saw that both the Church and the State were too hard on The People.

He was Weird.
Powerful people loved him.

I have No Idea why.
He somehow Demanded that the Church and the Crown get on up Off The People.

The Church and the Crown got together and decided to give the man what he asked for.
The Police and The Army All Authority walked into The Church or into The Castle and shut the Front Door.

Then out the Back Door The Army went into The Streets and Set Fires, Killed People, Encouraged Old Grievances.
The Police were Busy, too. They opened the Prisons and Kicked the Criminals out. Then put on Civvies to PaarrrTTy.

What fun in the Old City...Tonight?

The City Burned.
Most of Martin Luther's friends died young.

It was Very Sad.

Is that what we want?
Or; Is that what we have?

I think we need Meetings.
I might be Wrong.

I used to think if we Knew one another we would be kind and understanding.
I think I was Wrong. I am much more likely to shoot someone I Know. You?

Is that why Europeans are, sort of, stand-off-ish?
If they get to Know one another, they become Murderous?

All those Wars, sort of, speak for themselves. (right?)
Spoiler:
Europeans are not peaceful and nice.
They are Vulcans! One wrong move...

They are held together by Self-Control and Tradition?
We got your Foul Temper. May we have a little Self-Control and a Tradition or Two?

You can have Santa back.
We don't need to be Terioized by a Fat Man.

We need something like... oh, I don't know.
What do you have, we need?

How about the Manditory Public Service?
Milatary Training for all persons.

That might help with the Self-Control component.
May we have one of those?

I know! We had one!
We lost it.

No. (I am sorry.) We did not lose it.
We broke it.

We need one and we broke ours.
We broke it, because....Well....?

umm. We were all full of ourselves.
I think as a Nation we have been taken Down a Notch.

What do you think?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby omgryebread » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:19 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Yet if someone slips and falls on my property, I'm liable regardless of whether or not the person was allowed on it.
If you were negligent for some reason (you failed to clear ice from your property, or the floors were wet) and you were aware of the trespasser or you knew trespass was frequent, yes you are liable.

The idea is that you aren't liable for stuff you couldn't possibly predict. People don't normally trespass in my kitchen, so if a trespasser slipped and fell on my freshly mopped floor, the assumption would be that I had no liability because I couldn't have expected there would be a need for a warning.

On the flip side, if a shortcut to a commonly used trail was on your property, and you knew people regularly trespassed to use said shortcut, and you also happened to shoot cans on your property regularly, you should post signs warning against the trespass. If you failed to post the signs, and you accidentally shot someone, you'd be liable.

Rules are certain to vary by country, and by state as well, in the US. Not sure how this would work in states with pure contributory negligence, like my own, Maryland.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:05 pm UTC

The point was that the schools are arguing that the person wasn't allowed on their property so they aren't liable. But it's not the same for anyone else.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:30 am UTC

I guess this counts as police misbehavior. Sort of. In my book anyhow.

A routine request in Florida for public records regarding the use of a surveillance tool known as stingray took an extraordinary turn recently when federal authorities seized the documents before police could release them.

The surprise move by the U.S. Marshals Service stunned the American Civil Liberties Union, which earlier this year filed the public records request with the Sarasota, Florida, police department for information detailing its use of the controversial surveillance tool.

The ACLU had an appointment last Tuesday to review documents pertaining to a case investigated by a Sarasota police detective. But marshals swooped in at the last minute to grab the records, claiming they belong to the U.S. Marshals Service and barring the police from releasing them.

ACLU staff attorney Nathan Freed Wessler called the move “truly extraordinary and beyond the worst transparency violations” the group has seen regarding documents detailing police use of the technology.

“This is consistent with what we’ve seen around the country with federal agencies trying to meddle with public requests for stingray information,” Wessler said, noting that federal authorities have in other cases invoked the Homeland Security Act to prevent the release of such records. “The feds are working very hard to block any release of this information to the public.”

Stingrays, also known as IMSI catchers, simulate a cellphone tower and trick nearby mobile devices into connecting with them, thereby revealing their location. A stingray can see and record a device’s unique ID number and traffic data, as well as information that points to its location. By moving a stingray around, authorities can triangulate a device’s location with greater precision than is possible using data obtained from a carrier’s fixed tower location.

The records sought by the ACLU are important because the organization has learned that a Florida police detective obtained permission to use a stingray simply by filing an application with the court under Florida’s “trap and trace” statute instead of obtaining a probable-cause warrant. Trap and trace orders generally are used to collect information from phone companies about telephone numbers received and called by a specific account. A stingray, however, can track the location of cell phones, including inside private spaces.

The government has long asserted it doesn’t need a probable-cause warrant to use stingrays because the device doesn’t collect the content of phone calls and text messages, but instead operates like pen-registers and trap-and-traces, collecting the equivalent of header information. The ACLU and others argue that the devices are more invasive than a trap-and-trace.

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device’s manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

The ACLU has filed numerous records requests with police departments around the country in an effort to uncover how often the devices are used and how often courts are told about them.

In the Sarasota case, the U.S. Marshals Service claimed it owned the records Sarasota police offered to the ACLU because it had deputized the detective in the case, making all documentation in the case federal property. Before the ACLU could view the documents Sarasota had put aside for them, the agency dispatched a marshal from its office in Tampa to seize the records and move them to an undisclosed location.

The U.S. Marshals Service declined to comment, saying it “does not discuss pending litigation.”

Florida public records law requires that even if a dispute over records occurs, the Sarasota Police Department was legally obligated to hold onto the records for at least 30 days once it had received the ACLU’s request. That period would have given the ACLU a chance to argue its case in court to obtain the records.

“We’ve seen our fair share of federal government attempts to keep records about stingrays secret, but we’ve never seen an actual physical raid on state records in order to conceal them from public view,” the ACLU wrote in a blog post today.

The ACLU filed an emergency motion seeking a temporary injunction preventing the police department from releasing additional files to the marshals. The motion also asks the court to find the department in violation of state law for allowing the U.S. Marshals Service to seize the documents. The ACLU wants the court to order the police department to retrieve the documents. Because the issue is a state matter and the ACLU filed the motion in a state court, the judge cannot directly order the U.S. Marshal Service, a federal agency, to return the documents.


What are the feds so afraid of? It's a bit rich following all the 'reassurances' over the Snowden revelations that 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear' from the mass government surveillance program.

The feds should at least justify why such secrecy is necessary. Transparency is essential in a liberal democracy to guard against abuse by authority and a wise government should welcome it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:08 am UTC

elasto wrote:I guess this counts as police misbehavior. Sort of. In my book anyhow.
What are the feds so afraid of? It's a bit rich following all the 'reassurances' over the Snowden revelations that 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear' from the mass government surveillance program.

The feds should at least justify why such secrecy is necessary. Transparency is essential in a liberal democracy to guard against abuse by authority and a wise government should welcome it.


They're afraid we'll find out they're recording all phone calls (and not just the metadata).
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby oxoiron » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:28 pm UTC

elasto wrote:I guess this counts as police misbehavior. Sort of. In my book anyhow.

STINGRAY STUFF, including "Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device’s manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts."
You'd think the part I bolded (if true) would be a giant red flag for the police buying the device. And that is even ignoring the fact that police are not allowed to hide things from the courts (the whole "free society" thing is supposed to prevent that kind of crap).

By the way elasto, do you have a link for that article?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:25 pm UTC

Yeah, I'm a little surprised that such a contract would even be legally enforceable.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:37 am UTC

oxoiron wrote:By the way elasto, do you have a link for that article?

Sorry. I think it was this

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:54 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Yeah, I'm a little surprised that such a contract would even be legally enforceable.

Plausible Deniability?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

The contact does not need enforcement.
It's existence provides deniability.

The US is a Secret Society.
Loads of Secrets.

People are comfortable with their security codes; I suppose.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby BlackSails » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:02 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Yeah, I'm a little surprised that such a contract would even be legally enforceable.


I am fairly certain it is not, but it gives the police plausible deniability. "Oh, its not a valid contract? We didnt know that, we were just following it in good faith."

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:32 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Yeah, I'm a little surprised that such a contract would even be legally enforceable.

I can see it being enforceable.

What annoys me is the courts. It should be simple: Sixth Amendment requires that you can confront your accuser, but if you're accused by Stingray then you can't. So the obvious answer is: Inadmissible evidence, fruit of a poisonous tree: Police can't have their evidence and their NDA at the same time.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:37 am UTC

Chicago Cops Being Sued After Being Caught On Tape Physically And Verbally Abusing A Massage Parlor Employee, Jianqing "Jessica" Klyzek.

(Don't bother trying to watch the video on techdirt: the account has been deleted from You Tube, maybe for reasons similar to this. You can see a news story with some of it here on Chicago ABC 7.)

  • Verbally abused her, telling her she was, "not a citizen" (she was naturalized in 2011).
  • Asked for permission to taze her 10 times.
  • Filed a false charge of assault against her.
  • Falsely obtained an indictment against her for aggravated battery against an officer.

Of course, we all know the real problem here, which was that the police couldn't find the security camera video tape and destroy it. The recordings were made offsite.

The event is under review by the "Independent" Police Review Authority, where they will take their time hoping the whole thing goes away or they can somehow lose the tape. Biggest concern is probably that she might have made copies.

Among other things, the lawsuit charges that the officer's actions amounted to a hate crime.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:06 pm UTC

Threatening her life and the life of her family is outrageous. But given the officer's history with immigrants, it looks like she should be happy to escape the incident with no broken bones.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:25 am UTC

Video of white California Highway Patrol officer beating a black woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk3wZ6oz9fc
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:58 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Video of white California Highway Patrol officer beating a black woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk3wZ6oz9fc


Longer version for context. The actual context being pretty much the same as the previous link, but just in case people thought she was holding a knife or something...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Thesh wrote:Video of white California Highway Patrol officer beating a black woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk3wZ6oz9fc


Longer version for context. The actual context being pretty much the same as the previous link, but just in case people thought she was holding a knife or something...

Just walk away does not work, anymore.
ok.

From what I understand, the best way to deal with an encounter with a Strange Man with a bad attitude in a Uniform is as follows.
1. Hold Still.
2. Drop your hands.
3. Drop your eyes.
4. Drop your head.

5. Follow direct orders, if possible.
Spoiler:
I am a native English speaker.
I can't understand them, sometimes.


(fuck) it may not help.
You won't see it coming.
That in its self is a blessing.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby krogoth » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:56 pm UTC

Walking a way into oncoming traffic seems like a great idea.

By the look of things he tries to stop her walking into traffic, he pulls her out of the way as she refuses to listen, she scratches at his face as she hits the ground, he hits back losing control, she planted her nails in his arm after he took her down, he loses control again.

Failed anger management by the cop. Could have been worse he could have let her walk into traffic and caused a real accident.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:48 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:Walking a way into oncoming traffic seems like a great idea.

By the look of things he tries to stop her walking into traffic, he pulls her out of the way as she refuses to listen, she scratches at his face as she hits the ground, he hits back losing control, she planted her nails in his arm after he took her down, he loses control again.

Failed anger management by the cop. Could have been worse he could have let her walk into traffic and caused a real accident.


She was walking on the grassy median, not in traffic. That's not exactly the safest place to be, but it's not in a traffic lane, either. So I'm not sure that warranted her arrest in the first place (though I guess the cops are saying "it was for her protection"). But perhaps there was something that happened preceding the clip that we didn't see.

But "scratching" is battery, so he'll get the benefit of the doubt.


How about this one, involving an officer "toppling" a man in a wheelchair? According to the story, the entire city police command staff recommended his termination, but the Civil Service commision says a 30-day suspension and a year of supervisory probation will do.

Yes, the officer was struck by the wheelchair, but deliberately remained in its path. I can't imagine that under the same circumstances I wouldn't have had to fight hard with instinct to get out of the way, which would only have taken a step. So it looks to me like he stood his ground on purpose to create an excuse; entrapment. Not only that, but shoving the man over that way was extremely dangerous; he could have struck his head on the ground and died.

The 3-2 vote that his force was justified may say more about the Civil Service commission than it does him; and not good things about the commission, either.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:37 am UTC

Coyne wrote:She was walking on the grassy median, not in traffic. That's not exactly the safest place to be, but it's not in a traffic lane, either. So I'm not sure that warranted her arrest in the first place (though I guess the cops are saying "it was for her protection"). But perhaps there was something that happened preceding the clip that we didn't see.


The description on the youtube video led me to believe she'd just crossed the road in front of the cop (whether it was safe to do so or every car had to slam on the brakes, I'm not sure). Perhaps it's wrong or I misread it.

Not defending his actions, just saying there might be more to it than "woman on the median strip; better beat her up to protect her".

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby krogoth » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:04 am UTC

Coyne wrote:
krogoth wrote:Walking a way into oncoming traffic seems like a great idea.

By the look of things he tries to stop her walking into traffic, he pulls her out of the way as she refuses to listen, she scratches at his face as she hits the ground, he hits back losing control, she planted her nails in his arm after he took her down, he loses control again.

Failed anger management by the cop. Could have been worse he could have let her walk into traffic and caused a real accident.


She was walking on the grassy median, not in traffic. That's not exactly the safest place to be, but it's not in a traffic lane, either. So I'm not sure that warranted her arrest in the first place (though I guess the cops are saying "it was for her protection"). But perhaps there was something that happened preceding the clip that we didn't see.

But "scratching" is battery, so he'll get the benefit of the doubt.


Far from the grassy area of the median. She is in the emergency breaking lain/bike lane.(if you can use it for bikes even I doubt) There is slowed traffic as they can see people on the road, eg her, and the other stopped traffic.
I don't know the legality of it but it's more than a little bit of a stupid spot to stand/walk, Already crossed the on ramp(where the recording it taken from)- 2 feet away from traffic that could be traveling 80 mph in the other direction.

The next story is just stupid though on the cops part.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:11 am UTC

krogoth wrote:Far from the grassy area of the median. She is in the emergency breaking lain/bike lane.(if you can use it for bikes even I doubt) There is slowed traffic as they can see people on the road, eg her, and the other stopped traffic.
I don't know the legality of it but it's more than a little bit of a stupid spot to stand/walk, Already crossed the on ramp(where the recording it taken from)- 2 feet away from traffic that could be traveling 80 mph in the other direction.

The next story is just stupid though on the cops part.

In the area 2 feet from the grassy (really dirt because drought and socal summer) median is not far from it.
There is slowed traffic, we don't know why there traffic is slow, you are making baseless assumptions. Traffic is far more likely to be slow due to the cop car on the side of the road.

And more importantly even if you were right about things are you wrong about and your assumptions are correct that doesn't come close to justifying the cops behavior.

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krogoth
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby krogoth » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:44 am UTC

During the time between him grabbing her to retrain her and his first hit she has already struck at his face. You can see her pull away, trip/forced to the ground, as the voice says "arrest her" or just half a second before as it goes out of focus in the grapple. She strikes at his face and has his shirt gripped tightly in her other hand before he strikes her.

I'm not saying his means are justified. I'm saying I have no sympathy for her in that situation, his wrong doesn't make her right, if at all she causes risk to others, being in the way of traffic as she already crossed an on-ram, and with disregard for law enforcement.
R3sistance - I don't care at all for the ignorance spreading done by many and to the best of my abilities I try to correct this as much as I can, but I know and understand that even I can not be completely honest, truthful and factual all of the time.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:21 am UTC

krogoth wrote:During the time between him grabbing her to retrain her and his first hit she has already struck at his face. You can see her pull away, trip/forced to the ground, as the voice says "arrest her" or just half a second before as it goes out of focus in the grapple. She strikes at his face and has his shirt gripped tightly in her other hand before he strikes her.

So grabbing at something when tripped/thrown to the ground is not unacceptable behavior?
Next you are going to tell me that the damage done to his fist when it hit her face is assault on an officer and he is entirely justified in shooting her, right?


I'm not saying his means are justified. I'm saying I have no sympathy for her in that situation, his wrong doesn't make her right, if at all she causes risk to others, being in the way of traffic as she already crossed an on-ram, and with disregard for law enforcement.

This isn't law enforcement, this is an asshole with a gun that should be thrown in jail. This is what all other law enforcement should be shunning and distancing themselves from. That you have no sympathy for a woman who got beat by someone who is supposed to be protecting her is sad. Nothing she did here comes close to deserving what she happened to her, and the person that assaulted her should be in prison, especially because that person is abusing the privilege bestowed upon them.

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Diadem
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:41 am UTC

It is utterly irrelevant who the woman is or what she had done before the video started. Whether she was just walking along, or whether she just clubbed a baby to death with a kitten, it doesn't matter.

The officer physically abused a detainee who posed absolutely no threat to him.

The guy is not even the problem. The problem is the people who defend him. The people who see something obviously wrong and evil, and who just don't care. I am always shocked by how many Americans are okay with this kind of police abuse. I'm not surprised this kind of shit is endemic when it has such broad support.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Crissa
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Crissa » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am UTC

Diadem wrote:The guy is not even the problem. The problem is the people who defend him. The people who see something obviously wrong and evil, and who just don't care. I am always shocked by how many Americans are okay with this kind of police abuse. I'm not surprised this kind of shit is endemic when it has such broad support.

This is so true. It's very hard for me to talk about it, since my father was shot and killed by an officer. But I do talk about it - and other abuses of authority. When someone who has taken authority - governmental or not - and buses that trust, it's like the most rage inducing thing I have experienced, all over again.

-Crissa

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Grop
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Grop » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:19 am UTC

What Diadem said. Many people seem to think that wrong is kind of deserved. That idea is very wrong, at the very least whenever things aren't punishment decided in a court.

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krogoth
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby krogoth » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:44 am UTC

It's irrelevant to his charges, not to hers.
He should have been able to retrain her in a better way.

Diadem wrote:The officer physically abused a detainee who posed absolutely no threat to him.


No threat to him, but showing irrational uncontrolled behavior along a major highway, this becomes a threat to motorists.

Zcorp wrote:krogoth wrote:
During the time between him grabbing her to retrain her and his first hit she has already struck at his face. You can see her pull away, trip/forced to the ground, as the voice says "arrest her" or just half a second before as it goes out of focus in the grapple. She strikes at his face and has his shirt gripped tightly in her other hand before he strikes her.

So grabbing at something when tripped/thrown to the ground is not unacceptable behavior?
Next you are going to tell me that the damage done to his fist when it hit her face is assault on an officer and he is entirely justified in shooting her, right?

She doesn't "catch herself" she refuses to let go.

In my opinion they should both be charged, him for assault, abuse of authority(whatever the charge is) and her for reckless endangerment.

I understand he is wrong and don't want to take away from that, but on the other side of the fence, you get people that jump in front of trains trucks and cars in unstable mental states that do so much damage to the life of the driver.
R3sistance - I don't care at all for the ignorance spreading done by many and to the best of my abilities I try to correct this as much as I can, but I know and understand that even I can not be completely honest, truthful and factual all of the time.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:24 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:It is utterly irrelevant who the woman is or what she had done before the video started. Whether she was just walking along, or whether she just clubbed a baby to death with a kitten, it doesn't matter.

The officer physically abused a detainee who posed absolutely no threat to him.


This. Force is to be used only when necessary. When the danger ceases to exist, the need to use force is past. Any punishment for misdeeds takes place after the trial and due process, not before.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:50 pm UTC

i can think of abolutely no good reason for a police officer to punch a person repeatedly in the face. it is not exactly the most efficient method of subdueing a resisting person. just grabbing her hands and kneeling on her would have been sufficent, i suppose.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:46 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:She doesn't "catch herself" she refuses to let go.

Bullshit it happened in less than 6 seconds.

I understand he is wrong and don't want to take away from that, but on the other side of the fence, you get people that jump in front of trains trucks and cars in unstable mental states that do so much damage to the life of the driver.

There is no other side of the fence on this issue. No one is defending anything she did, we don't know enough about what was going on in relation to her to understand what she did wrong if anything.

No one is saying anything related to preventing cops from preventing civilians from harming other civilians. In fact that is largely what we expect of them. So stating it here comes across as nothing but you apologizing for this abhorrent behavior from a person we have given extra privilege to.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby cphite » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:27 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:During the time between him grabbing her to retrain her and his first hit she has already struck at his face. You can see her pull away, trip/forced to the ground, as the voice says "arrest her" or just half a second before as it goes out of focus in the grapple. She strikes at his face and has his shirt gripped tightly in her other hand before he strikes her.


Even if we assume that she struck at his face, there is no reason for him to start beating on her like that; and certainly not to continue once she was restrained. And, as for her grabbing his shirt - people have a tendency to grab whatever they can grab when they're being thrown to the ground. It's a natural reaction. Beating someone continuously after they're under restraint is bullshit; it doesn't matter if they grabbed your shirt or struck you.

I'm not saying his means are justified. I'm saying I have no sympathy for her in that situation, his wrong doesn't make her right, if at all she causes risk to others, being in the way of traffic as she already crossed an on-ram, and with disregard for law enforcement.


He's a thug with a badge who deserves to go to jail. The police do not have the right to physically assault someone just for disregarding law enforcement. If it was necessary to place her under arrest for her own protection, the police are allowed to use appropriate force to perform the arrest. Throwing someone on the ground and punching them repeatedly in the face is completely inappropriate, and unacceptable.

The moment that woman was on the ground and under his control, everything he did past that moment was battery. Anyone else would go to jail for it. But because he's a cop, he'll get a free pass. At most, he'll spend some time at home being paid not to work.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby cphite » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:58 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:The guy is not even the problem. The problem is the people who defend him. The people who see something obviously wrong and evil, and who just don't care. I am always shocked by how many Americans are okay with this kind of police abuse. I'm not surprised this kind of shit is endemic when it has such broad support.


Exactly.

The fact that someone can watch a person get thrown on the ground and beaten like that by an officer of the law, and actually try to argue that she somehow deserved it or asked for it, is fucking sick.

It doesn't matter what this woman was doing prior to the cop getting involved. Whether she was walking along minding her own business, or playing chicken with oncoming traffic. It doesn't matter that she slapped him, or tried to slap him. It doesn't matter that she grabbed his shirt, or if she tried to resist the initial take down. It doesn't matter what she said to him, or what he said to her.

The moment this woman was under his control, and he kept on hitting her, he crossed the line from making an arrest to assaulting her. Period. Sure, maybe she pissed him off - irrelevant. Maybe it stung a little when she slapped him - too bad. Maybe she ripped his favorite shirt - tough shit. Part of his job - his responsibility as an officer of the law - is to conduct himself in a professional manner despite any of that. And when he fails to do that, it isn't just a failure to to his job - it invalidates his job. When he fails to act in a professional manner, and beats a defenseless person, he isn't acting as a cop anymore. He's acting as a thug hiding behind a badge and a gun.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:01 pm UTC

Apparently you understand the problem.
Some of us think it is a problem, others don't.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Crissa
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Crissa » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:42 am UTC

Police should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

-Crissa

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Paul in Saudi
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:46 pm UTC

Roanoke City Police in Virginia want to require a boy to submit to a medical procedure to induce an erection for "evidence." Seems the young man is accused of sending photos of his junk to his girlfriend. The police of course are pursuing the boy for producing child pornography. They want to examine the "evidence," comparing one dick pic with the other. The girl also underage also sent naked photos. She will not be charged.

Linky:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/columns_and_blogs/blogs/dan_casey/va-cops-want-photo-of-teen-s-penis/article_15313c02-07b1-11e4-9e6d-0017a43b2370.html

Zcorp
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:47 pm UTC

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/did-an ... sh-a-drone
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/police ... ared-crash

NYPD helicopter chase a toy quadcopter, then lie about their behavior, the behavior of the toy and the elevation of the toy. Charge owners with felony, wreck less endangerment.


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