Tyndmyr wrote: KnightExemplar wrote:
In general, I don't think it is a good idea for one or two officers to run into a hostile crowd to chase people who threw bottles or bricks at them. Its not like you have an infinite number of officers, and it looks like officers have to use "line tactics" to control the crowds.
You don't want to go home as this police officer did
See, we're back to characterizing the entire crowd as "hostile". I note that this term can describe anything from a fellow who dislikes you to an enemy army.
The entire crowd doesn't need to be hostile for it to be too scary to go in. You've got multiple people you don't necessarily see throwing bricks at you. Why would you want to go in to get the one or two people that you managed to see actually do it?
If the whole crowd is indeed attacking, then yes, you should treat them all as attackers. If they're not, you shouldn't. That latter part is where the failure happens. Also, the baltimore officers got clobbered by thrown objects and *didn't* make an effort, at least for some time, to apprehend folks. The issue here isn't that they were too precise in only grabbing the actual guilty folks...it's that A. they didn't have protective headgear on, and B. they let a situation escalate without promptly responding to the *actual* lawbreaking. When they did respond eventually, gas was busted out basically everywhere, and pretty much everything went to hell.
Unfortunately, putting on protective head gear is called putting on riot gear.
And currently, putting on riot gear at all
is interpreted as a hostile act that riles up the crowd even more.
It isn't as simple as "gas the crowd or they'll beat you up".
It certainly isn't as simple as "run into the crowd and hope to get all the guys who were throwing bricks at you" either. Look, people are literally crazy when they are in a crowd and do things they wouldn't normally do. I have perfectly peaceful, normal friends who during a fucking sports event decided to join a crowd in flipping cars and busses (because that's how you celebrate your team winning... or losing... or something) I'm not necessarily saying I agree with the Police response (skulls were literally cracked, tear gas deployed, etc. etc.) but at very least I know that a "crowd" kind of acts with a mind of its own. Things escalate quickly, information doesn't spread. And the peaceful protesters standing around get caught up in the mess.
In any case, I don't believe we can really move forward in this conversation unless we start nailing down specifics. It is likely that you and I have different imaginations, and we are looking at the reports of these protests differently.
The first step is to synchronize upon the same information. Gmal didn't seem to like the videos I found on a quick google search though, so how about you start
with picking out video of St. Louis Police after the Mansour Bey shooting.
There really isn't any point talking about things in the abstract, since we both have differing abstract ideas about this situation. If we can nail things down to a concrete example, I think our discussion will actually move forward.
Does it fucking matter? Its video footage. If you don't like it, give me videos of your own. Everyone these days seems to have a camera on them, so we can look at and interpret in whatever manner we want.
I'll let you know how I came up with that link. I went to google, typed in various iterations of "Mansour Ball Bey Video" (or something close to that with protesters or something in there) and went to the first link that seemed to be around the time of the Mansour Ball Bey protests. No, I didn't try very hard. No, I didn't back check the guy's bias before posting the link. But as long as I have some video footage at the scene
, I do think I tried harder than you did to contribute to this conversation in a rational manner.
Primary source material dude. We live in a modern age where we can look at videos and discuss them online. There's no need for this poisoning the well bullshit: you can attack the videos directly.Honestly
, I was going to go through those videos and type up what I thought of them for you. But I'm glad you saved me the time and energy. Maybe if Tyndmyr or someone else thinks its still worth the while for me to go through and try and analyze it... then I'll do so.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.