Police misbehavior thread

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:03 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
idonno wrote:You can't extract incredibly cheap labor out of people under house arrest.

Most of those people under house arrest are still allowed to work, making re-integration a non-issue...

I wasn't arguing for their well being I was being facetious. My point was there is an incentive to lock them up because they can be exploited for cheap labor.
Sheriff Steve Prator wrote:In addition to the bad ones -- in addition to them -- they are releasing some good ones that we use every day to wash cars, to change the oil in our cars, to cook in the kitchen -- to do all that where we save money

This is what comes up when people are let our early. Can you imagine the fight over never sending people to prison in the first place?

jewish_scientist
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jewish_scientist » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:02 am UTC

Ginger wrote:I stand by my position that most cops are evil-evil dominance obsessed pigs.

Just because every time you have interacted with the cops they were mean does not mean that all cops are mean. Maybe you should take a statistics class before condemning a million people.

User avatar
Ginger
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:00 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:14 am UTC

Maybe You should deal with cops and have them touch you inappropriately or grab your hair while they search you. Anyways I admit I'm highly biased. And that's all I will say in defense of myself.
She/Her/Hers.

Sometimes she feels like she should put trigger warnings all over herself?

He buys me a thorn before he buys me a rose/I'm covered in dirt before I'm covered in gold/I'm in love with a monster~

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:15 am UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:
Ginger wrote:I stand by my position that most cops are evil-evil dominance obsessed pigs.

Just because every time you have interacted with the cops they were mean does not mean that all cops are mean. Maybe you should take a statistics class before condemning a million people.

They are pretty much all at least mildly corrupt though. Not punishing infractions because of family/friend connections is both corrupt and common place. You won't find to many police that look favorably at applying broken window policies to themselves though. That sort of policing is just reserved for the "bad" guys.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:07 am UTC

That's a very low bar for corruption. The same could be said for almost any in group.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:40 am UTC

If the police are supposed to be the ones we go to to fight corruption, then they have to be less corrupt than the average in group.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 5764
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ucim » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:35 am UTC

The police are there for more immediate aid in emergency situations with bad guys (which is why they need to be less corrupt than the ordinary group). However, they are not the ones to call to fight corruption itself. That would be the judges and lawyers.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:40 am UTC

It's detectives that uncover corruption. While detectives are different from beat cops, both are under the same jurisdiction.

User avatar
Ginger
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:00 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:43 am UTC

Now we're just playing ranks games. Lawyers, beat cops and detectives and judges uncover corruption. Cops by investigating and arresting. Lawyers and judges by prosecuting with due diligence to ensure the corruption is dealt with. You're all right and so so pretty pretty. I love you all. <3
She/Her/Hers.

Sometimes she feels like she should put trigger warnings all over herself?

He buys me a thorn before he buys me a rose/I'm covered in dirt before I'm covered in gold/I'm in love with a monster~

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:16 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:It's detectives that uncover corruption. While detectives are different from beat cops, both are under the same jurisdiction.
That is an over simplification if I'm not mistaken. Most local police will never see a corruption investigation unless they are a target. They attack it with multidisciplinary teams of accountants and prosecutors. Local detectives may well participate but I would think they rarely, if ever, lead the investigation.

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:08 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:That's a very low bar for corruption. The same could be said for almost any in group.

It can be said for almost no groups because almost no groups have the responsibility to enforce the law. We live in a world where a middle class spouse of a police officer can speed with impunity while a poor person who is struggling to get by has to pay over $100 for it. Do you not understand how that creates a hostile environment that undermines everything else the police are supposed to be doing? How major of an infraction should it be before the fact that someone is married to a cop should not protect them?

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2760
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby orthogon » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:55 pm UTC

idonno wrote:
morriswalters wrote:That's a very low bar for corruption. The same could be said for almost any in group.

It can be said for almost no groups because almost no groups have the responsibility to enforce the law. We live in a world where a middle class spouse of a police officer can speed with impunity while a poor person who is struggling to get by has to pay over $100 for it. Do you not understand how that creates a hostile environment that undermines everything else the police are supposed to be doing? How major of an infraction should it be before the fact that someone is married to a cop should not protect them?

It's certainly a staple of US cop shows that a cop can make speeding tickets and potentially more serious stuff like DUIs go away for anyone they want. I'm curious how true this is, and what the supposed mechanism is. Do they have a word with the arresting officer, or do they somehow delete it themselves on the computer? It doesn't sound like something that would be difficult to check up on either way, and assuming it's a dismissable offense, it's hard to see how it would be worth risking your job for. (I know there are corner cases where it's a spouse and they're going to get banned and lose their job, but these cases are usually just the son of a friend or something).

US cop shows are all over the place anyway. At one extreme you've got Law and Order, where the whole smoking-gun, full-confession, crime-recorded-on-camera case gets thrown out because the officer wasn't wearing the correct socks; then you've got Chicago PD, in which actual beating and torture of suspects (or even witnesses) is all in a day's work: the bad guys get locked up and IA are never able to make anything stick. I know that's kind of the respective point of each show, but it leaves me with no idea of where reality sits along that spectrum.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6906
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:It's certainly a staple of US cop shows that a cop can make speeding tickets and potentially more serious stuff like DUIs go away for anyone they want.
Cops will do stuff like hand out business cards which, when shown to other cops, will (depending on the cop) get you out of a speeding ticket. Cops will notice you have a bumper sticker mentioning that you donated to a police charity and let you off with a warning. Police will realize you're a marine and tell you to just go on your way. Etc.

All stuff I've seen first-hand or heard about from family members.

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:30 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
idonno wrote:
morriswalters wrote:That's a very low bar for corruption. The same could be said for almost any in group.

It can be said for almost no groups because almost no groups have the responsibility to enforce the law. We live in a world where a middle class spouse of a police officer can speed with impunity while a poor person who is struggling to get by has to pay over $100 for it. Do you not understand how that creates a hostile environment that undermines everything else the police are supposed to be doing? How major of an infraction should it be before the fact that someone is married to a cop should not protect them?

It's certainly a staple of US cop shows that a cop can make speeding tickets and potentially more serious stuff like DUIs go away for anyone they want. I'm curious how true this is, and what the supposed mechanism is.

It is my understanding that it used to be the case that they could just make things go away but there is more permanence to record keeping so once it is issued it is now at least much more difficult to do anything about it. The mechanism employed is much simpler than that though. Police don't issue tickets to police spouses (I have a friend who recently married a police officer and was already getting out of tickets when they were just engaged). I think they just have to have a card to prove it. I suppose if the cop is suspicious he would just call up the spouse and confirm but I couldn't tell you that for sure. They can also get a cop to not show up in traffic court which means the defendant wins no matter what paper work has been filed.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

idonno wrote:I think they just have to have a card to prove it.
I'm quite certain that it happens. But ticket fixing isn't even in my top 100 for police corruption. Like you, I've heard these stories since I was a kid. And like most stories there is less than meets the eye in them. Cops have many chances to do many more lucrative things, with better payoffs. And I am quite sure that some measure of them are as crooked as a dogs hind leg. I can infer that by looking at corruption in general. Cops do a lot of bad things. This isn't really one of them.

User avatar
Ginger
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:00 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:34 pm UTC

I wish more police would police their own behavior. Why we always always have to fix cops' bad behaviors by ourselves? It takes two to tango. The cops are just like criminals at the stage in my life where I am/live. They prowl around at night looking for hungry homeless girls digging for food so they can shoo them away. They harass you for not wearing 'appropriate winter clothes' in the city. So why can't more cops tell other cops to cut it out? Maybe then they would listen.
She/Her/Hers.

Sometimes she feels like she should put trigger warnings all over herself?

He buys me a thorn before he buys me a rose/I'm covered in dirt before I'm covered in gold/I'm in love with a monster~

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6906
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:18 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:I'm quite certain that it happens. But ticket fixing isn't even in my top 100 for police corruption. Like you, I've heard these stories since I was a kid. And like most stories there is less than meets the eye in them. Cops have many chances to do many more lucrative things, with better payoffs. And I am quite sure that some measure of them are as crooked as a dogs hind leg. I can infer that by looking at corruption in general. Cops do a lot of bad things. This isn't really one of them.
Overlooking speeding tickets and DUIs isn't high on my list of "Things I'd Like Cops To Stop Doing" either, but the apparent pervasiveness of the activity indicates a culture of favoritism which protects police as a brand. And isn't that the problem with police misbehavior in the broadest sense? Cops covering for cops. DAs refusing to prosecute. Etc.

I don't want a police force that obeys the rules with slavish devotion. But a police force that exercises favoritism -- applying the law selectively, ignoring it when it benefits police and their families -- isn't appropriate, and teaches the wrong lesson.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:31 pm UTC

It's a human failing, not a cop failing. It's cliques. They exist everywhere. How can you expect the police to be better than you in that respect. Doctors for sure do it, lawyers. Name any profession and there is a expectation of favor among its members.

Do I like it, well yes I do. Almost everyone will be a beneficiary of it. I'll give an explicit example. You might call it networking, preferred access to you and the members of your circle, in access to available employment and promotion. There is a saying, it isn't what you know, it's who you blow. That's Empty Suit crude, but it's to the point. You might disagree that the two behaviors are the same. And they might not be, but that's the way I think it works.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6906
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:It's a human failing, not a cop failing.
You could say this of all acts of malfeasance on the part of police officers.
morriswalters wrote:How can you expect the police to be better than you in that respect.
Because it's their job.

Maybe if they can't do their job, they shouldn't have become police officers in the first place?
morriswalters wrote:Do I like it, well yes I do. Almost everyone will be a beneficiary of it. I'll give an explicit example. You might call it networking, preferred access to you and the members of your circle, in access to available employment and promotion. There is a saying, it isn't what you know, it's who you blow. That's Empty Suit crude, but it's to the point. You might disagree that the two behaviors are the same. And they might not be, but that's the way I think it works.
I understand that things like favoritism and nepotism are pervasive throughout human society. I'd prefer that the people who's job involves discharging firearms and sending others to jail refrain from engaging in it.

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:12 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:It's a human failing, not a cop failing. It's cliques. They exist everywhere. How can you expect the police to be better than you in that respect. Doctors for sure do it, lawyers. Name any profession and there is a expectation of favor among its members.

Do I like it, well yes I do. Almost everyone will be a beneficiary of it. I'll give an explicit example. You might call it networking, preferred access to you and the members of your circle, in access to available employment and promotion. There is a saying, it isn't what you know, it's who you blow. That's Empty Suit crude, but it's to the point. You might disagree that the two behaviors are the same. And they might not be, but that's the way I think it works.

And for a subset of people, "who you blow" used to be a literal requirement. Rather than saying, that is just the way the world is, people pushed back. This isn't some private institution wasting its own resources doing favors. It is a government entity with government employees that has a duty to serve the people not themselves. I'm not arguing that this is some central focus but the issues run through the entire organization and it should not be overlooked.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:16 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Maybe if they can't do their job, they shouldn't have become police officers in the first place?
Maybe if you can do better you should be a cop. I don't say that in a mean fashion, but maybe if more people like you chose it as a profession we could have better police. I don't know, I never had the desire to want that particular kind of power.
idonno wrote:Rather than saying, that is just the way the world is, people pushed back.
We have a different world view.
idonno wrote:It is a government entity with government employees that has a duty to serve the people not themselves.
A large percentage of time they do. I might feel differently if I were a minority. And at different times in my life I have held different opinions about the law. As I have gotten older my position has become more nuanced, or maybe I've just become old and frightened. I wish I knew which.

idonno
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:41 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:
idonno wrote:Rather than saying, that is just the way the world is, people pushed back.
We have a different world view.

Maybe you should reread my entire statement because this isn't a world view it is a historical fact. People have pushed back at a practice of trading sexual favors for career advancement and it has had an impact.

morriswalters wrote:
idonno wrote:It is a government entity with government employees that has a duty to serve the people not themselves.
A large percentage of time they do.

Which would be why I said "mildly corrupt" instead of something like "completely corrupt".

morriswalters wrote:I might feel differently if I were a minority.

If you only care about corruption when it impacts you, if and when it does, I suspect you will find that it is to late to protect yourself.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5935
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:55 am UTC

Some people seek out power, in terrible ways. I was having lunch with a police cadet, and he mentioned two things. That he wanted the sweet pension police unions get, and to gun down black lives matters activists if they get near him.
Other than potentially being a terrible cop for minorities, he was a nice guy.

User avatar
Ginger
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:00 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:48 am UTC

Spoiler:
Cops love-love to lecture you and say dubious stuffs like, "Your entire family isn't innocent." Or, "This Isn't a Game You Must Submit and tell me where you've hidden your bad stuffs!" Or, "Get the fuck up and show me all your lighters you unladylike girl." I mean seriously. Cops would come to my house and stalk outside until I came out and then CHASE ME to put me in handcuffs. Then they'd ever ever so politely lead me back into my home to shut off the lights. They were called to take me to a hospital where my gender/sex was roundly insulted by the entire staff. And of course that's not counting the countless lectures they give about how to deal with an abusive family rather than actually, you know, enforcing domestic abuse laws and taking someone away. Not only do cops wanna have power they as well wanna not do their jobs, lecture you and man handle you when you don't comply with orders or even stake out your house so you have to be afraid of even leaving it.


GONNA Try somethin' new: Instead of "offending and traumatizing people with G's bad bad views on cops" I'll let you choose to read it instead. And if a ton of people come out to argue I just won't post anymore.
She/Her/Hers.

Sometimes she feels like she should put trigger warnings all over herself?

He buys me a thorn before he buys me a rose/I'm covered in dirt before I'm covered in gold/I'm in love with a monster~

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5935
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:38 pm UTC

https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-news/11 ... c1314b956e
Wanna know why cops have a sterling record on paper? Just don't bother to investigate any wrongdoing.
Still, in 113 police shootings in the Cook County suburbs since 2005, records show not a single case led to disciplinary action for an officer who made a mistake. Not one lost their job. Not one criminal case was filed against an officer.

Everyone assumes that another agency is doing an investigation. The federal agencies assume that the local department are looking into it and the local police assume the state or Fed's are looking into it. This is either willful ignorance or intentional in order to protect police from building up evidence against cops.

This isn't to look for a crime, but to look if a cop follows policy, needs retraining discipline, etc etc.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:24 pm UTC

idonno wrote:If you only care about corruption when it impacts you, if and when it does, I suspect you will find that it is to late to protect yourself.
In context, the minority viewpoint I am uninformed about is how they feel about ticket fixing.

And while I'm sure that sexual harassment is and has been rampant. I think the phrase is tied to another phrase like suck up or brown nosing. Relative to why some people get promoted and hired and others don't. YMMV.
sardia wrote:Other than potentially being a terrible cop for minorities, he was a nice guy.
Obviously he isn't a nice guy. Careful who you lunch with. People might think you are trying to benefit from his ticket fixing powers.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:31 pm UTC

I think Sardia is being snarky about the cop being nice.

But now I have a story. My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. One of his fellow firefighters says some of the most racist crap. Things like "we should round up all the black people and ship them back to Africa" or "the best way for black people to fight crime is to get abortions". Is he racist? Well... when there was a blaze and it was too dangerous for the other firefighters, he was the one who ran in to save a eight year old black kid. So how racist is he? My uncle claims that racism is what you do, not what you say. I say that saying is itself an action, but I'm not exactly sure. I guess the point is people are weird. Or is there a point at all?

User avatar
Quercus
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Quercus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:22 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But now I have a story. My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. One of his fellow firefighters says some of the most racist crap. Things like "we should round up all the black people and ship them back to Africa" or "the best way for black people to fight crime is to get abortions". Is he racist? Well... when there was a blaze and it was too dangerous for the other firefighters, he was the one who ran in to save a eight year old black kid. So how racist is he? My uncle claims that racism is what you do, not what you say. I say that saying is itself an action, but I'm not exactly sure. I guess the point is people are weird. Or is there a point at all?


Doctors will treat people they hate (one example I read on a doctor's blog was a convicted child abuser) at the same standard of care as they do anyone else, making an effort to overcome their personal bias for the sake of professional ethics. This strikes me as a similar situation. I'd say he's racist as fuck, he's just a racist with solid professional ethics.

Also, one heroic action doesn't obliterate small, everyday stuff. Would that guy hire a black lawyer, shop at a store owned by a black person, be okay with his children marrying black people, be comfortable with black neighbours etc. etc. My guess, based on his words, would be probably not.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5935
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:43 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I think Sardia is being snarky about the cop being nice.

But now I have a story. My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. One of his fellow firefighters says some of the most racist crap. Things like "we should round up all the black people and ship them back to Africa" or "the best way for black people to fight crime is to get abortions". Is he racist? Well... when there was a blaze and it was too dangerous for the other firefighters, he was the one who ran in to save a eight year old black kid. So how racist is he? My uncle claims that racism is what you do, not what you say. I say that saying is itself an action, but I'm not exactly sure. I guess the point is people are weird. Or is there a point at all?

No, he actually was a nice guy, to me a not black person eating lunch. That's the point, a lot of racists are regular folks. It was "locker room talk", but it was unprovoked.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:00 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:But now I have a story. My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. One of his fellow firefighters says some of the most racist crap. Things like "we should round up all the black people and ship them back to Africa" or "the best way for black people to fight crime is to get abortions". Is he racist? Well... when there was a blaze and it was too dangerous for the other firefighters, he was the one who ran in to save a eight year old black kid. So how racist is he? My uncle claims that racism is what you do, not what you say. I say that saying is itself an action, but I'm not exactly sure. I guess the point is people are weird. Or is there a point at all?


Doctors will treat people they hate (one example I read on a doctor's blog was a convicted child abuser) at the same standard of care as they do anyone else, making an effort to overcome their personal bias for the sake of professional ethics. This strikes me as a similar situation. I'd say he's racist as fuck, he's just a racist with solid professional ethics.

Also, one heroic action doesn't obliterate small, everyday stuff. Would that guy hire a black lawyer, shop at a store owned by a black person, be okay with his children marrying black people, be comfortable with black neighbours etc. etc. My guess, based on his words, would be probably not.


1) didn't say it did. People are complicated, it wasn't the only time he saved black lives, but the one where replacing him with another firefighter would mean one less black life. So is he a net Good? Maybe, maybe not.
2) He probably would go to a black owned business, but not out of his way to do so. Probably not the black son in law. Probably wouldn't say shit to a black neighbor. From what I learned dealing with people like him, eg, my whole family, it's the intersectionality of poor and black that brings out the hate, though my family is more careful to keep it behind closed doors.

Another fun story

Spoiler:
used to have two family friends, one a "bootstraps" doctor (IE, grew up in extreme poverty but escaped, hates other poor people), fairly right wing. Other working class turned university professor, left wing. Both used to yell and scream at each other, in a friendly hatred sort of way. The professor had a second home, and wanted to rent it out. Through section 8. The doctor kept yelling at him that he was a moron, and plenty more was said. Two sets of tenants later, both black families, and, well, let's just say race relations were not improved.

morriswalters
Posts: 7011
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:28 am UTC

Yeah, everyone wants simple pictures in black and white. If you think you aren't a racist you just haven't been to the right place yet. I suspect it's built in, maybe on a genetic level. One of those nasty heuristics we use to save time. Or maybe some type of compensatory mechanisms related to reproduction. I'll die never knowing.

User avatar
Quercus
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Quercus » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:47 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:1) didn't say it did. People are complicated, it wasn't the only time he saved black lives, but the one where replacing him with another firefighter would mean one less black life. So is he a net Good? Maybe, maybe not.

That sounds like a net good to me, but I don't think that being overall a good person and being a racist are mutually exclusive (though being a good person doesn't give one a free pass on racism). The " only terrible people are racist" idea is a very unhelpful.

2) From what I learned dealing with people like him, eg, my whole family, it's the intersectionality of poor and black that brings out the hate

Huh, that's interesting. Hadn't considered that one before (probably because I'm not in the US), thanks for the perspective. Out of interest, how would their reaction to a poor black person differ to their reaction to a poor white person?

morriswalters wrote:Yeah, everyone wants simple pictures in black and white. If you think you aren't a racist you just haven't been to the right place yet. I suspect it's built in...

Bingo. Being racially biased is easy, in some ways it's the default. Not being so takes active work. But it's work that it's reasonable to expect everybody to do, just as we expect people to work on not physically assaulting others just because they are angry with them (which also seems to be a built in desire).

P.S. using "racially biased" here to delineate personal bias from systemic racism.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:27 pm UTC

Oh they hate poor white people too, unless they are working poor in which case the sympathy is nearly unlimited, but they think it's a small subset of white culture that causes poverty while the bulk of black culture is the problem.

The idea that there are cultural problems is not entirely wrong, and of course it obviously ignores historical reasons for those problems existing, but that's the dirty secret about racism that makes it so difficult to eradicate; there's always varying amounts of truth behind it.

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:02 pm UTC

Update on San Diego County Deputy Sheriff Richard Fischer, who is the subject of both administrative and criminal investigations into his alleged sexual misconduct in uniform (or at least mostly in uniform--his penis was reportedly out of his uniform on a few occasions):

Sheriff Bill Gore said in a telephone interview Monday that his investigators are working as diligently and expeditiously as they can.

“Although our investigation is moving as rapidly as possible, the deputy is entitled to certain civil service protections and procedures that we have to follow, and those are time-consuming,” he said. “The deputy does remain on leave without police powers so the public is in no danger.”

I'm sure his neighbors feel much better now that he's not going in to work anymore.

Two more claims filed in sheriff's sexual misconduct investigation, bringing total to 13 women

Oh, two more victims. How long will those that extend the investigation, I wonder?

The sheriff and district attorney are both up for re-election this June. You'd think getting at least one of those investigations wrapped up enough to do SOMETHING would be a higher priority for them.

jewish_scientist
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jewish_scientist » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm UTC

I actually did some research on how the legal repercussions of swatting. There is a legal principle called criminal liability, which basically means that a person is responsible for all of the results of an illegal action. For example, if a thief breaks into a home and accidentally starts a fire, they could be charged with arson. Once the prosecution proves that the thief had the intention to steal, the thief's intentions regarding the arson are irrelevant. What is very important about criminal liability is that it can only apply if someone is being charged with >2 crimes.

This means that even if a policeman kills a swattee, the swatter can be charged with murder. Interestingly, whether or not that policeman acted correctly is irrelevant to the swatter's case. All that the prosecution has to do is prove that swatter made the call knowing that filing a false police report was illegal and that this false police report lead to the swattee's death, both of which are pretty self-evident.

In the case we were originally discussing, the intended victim told the swatter a random address, which lead to someone else being the swattee. Lying while not under oath is legal, so the intended victim cannot be guilt via criminal liability. However, he did knowingly put someone in a dangerous situation, which can be a crime. On the other hand, since it is believable that the swatter would be able to discover his actual address, the intended victim could claim to have been acting in self defense. To further complicate matters is that the swatting resulted from the argument between the 2 players, which means that the prosecution could claim that the intended victim provoked the swatter and therefore created the potentially dangerous situation to begin with. Because of all of these complications, if charges are pressed on the intended victim, then the case will continue to be appealed until it reached the Supreme Court.

P.S. I can not tell you how many times I have rewritten whole this, because I could not figure out the correct conjugations 'swat'.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5935
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:28 pm UTC

Chicago is home for me, and what the police are doing here is pretty fucked up. https://projects.bettergov.org/taking-c ... -door.html
Apparently rich towns are doing what the Catholic Church did with pedophile priests. They're shifting criminal or incompetent cops to unsuspecting other towns.
The poor police department is either too poor, or too lazy to actually check if the promising hire was fired for cause ( read gross incompetence or criminal activity). Remember, these are the worst of the worst, because normal rule breaking is usually ignored or covered up by cops so there isn't a paper trail.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:50 pm UTC

Or too desperate.

They are called "Gypsy Cops", and casual racism in the name notwithstanding, they've been around forever.

jewish_scientist
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jewish_scientist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:35 am UTC

I do not thing that that term is racism, because the gypsy people have historically been nomadic. The Oxford dictionary actually makes explicit reference to this in the definition of 'gypsy'. Sorry for nip-picking, but it was an easy mistake to correct so I didn't see the harm.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Liri » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:12 am UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:I do not thing that that term is racism, because the gypsy people have historically been nomadic. The Oxford dictionary actually makes explicit reference to this in the definition of 'gypsy'. Sorry for nip-picking, but it was an easy mistake to correct so I didn't see the harm.

The term "gypsy" itself is quite offensive to many. I believe that was CU's point. Yes, we know they historically moved about, thus the preferred term in some areas, "Travelers" (referring to a different group in the British Isles and NA). The originals prefer Roma.

Yippee for 1k posts.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 9039
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:20 am UTC

Also, in a decade "pariah" will be too racist to use. The Paryar people of India are basically an untouchable class from which the term "pariah" is derived and is used as a racial slur, so if you ever are looking for an excuse to be offended you can pretend to be upset at using that term.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CorruptUser, mathmannix and 14 guests