Police misbehavior thread

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KnightExemplar
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:18 pm UTC

engr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But why the hell is anyone supporting Dorner?


The murderer is anti-police, pro-Democrat, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, anti-NRA...
Why wouldn't liberals support him?

For the "this is a right-wing blog, I won't believe anything they say there" crowd: Huff Post's updated version.


Because he's a violent, crazed madman who is actively targeting innocent people.

I'm anti-abortion, but I would never support the crazies who blow up abortion clinics or harass doctors in rural America. Extreme ad-hoc Violence should never be tolerated.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:20 pm UTC

The cynic in me notices that Dorner's ratio of innocents to enemy combatants is still only 2:1, which is probably a lot better than Obama's.

Yes, he's obviously a deranged madman. But it's no surprise he gets support, since so many police officers or politicians are, as well.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:20 am UTC

It is also much better than the police's ratio in this particular situation.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

engr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But why the hell is anyone supporting Dorner?


The murderer is anti-police, pro-Democrat, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, anti-NRA...
Why wouldn't liberals support him?

For the "this is a right-wing blog, I won't believe anything they say there" crowd: Huff Post's updated version.

Maybe, what we are reading is the echo of a decent to half decent human being. His life turned upside down and he lost his mind.
Or; All of it could be fiction. A way to keep us frightened and confused. What do you think?
He said he saw an grave injustice.
He was called a lier.
He lost his job, his life; All he had left was his body and his education and his mind.
He may have lost his mind in a really bad way.

What is the Mind? The interface between the body, the brain and the outside world?
I would like to talk to him. If he is fiction, then we will only, ever, talk about him.

Picard? Or; Kirk? The battle rages on. That News is a world away. How much of it is true?

I did not read the Manifesto. Those things tend to be dull.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:44 pm UTC

The people cheering Dorner on don't feel in the least threatened by him, but do feel threatened by the LAPD specifically or police forces generally.

He does need to be brought to justice for his actions. But so do many police officers who abuse their station to bully, harass, and yes, even injure or kill innocent civilians themselves. Dorner will be caught, tried, and convicted; it is almost an inevitability, on par with the seeming inevitability of the police continuing to put their own desires and egos above the needs and rights of the populace.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby scienceroboticspunk » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

I do not think he will be caught. I feel like the police are shooting to kill. The only way he might be able to get his day in court is if he turns himself in, in a different jurisdiction with a news crew present.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:55 pm UTC

Yeah. It always surprises me that the US public seems to be totally okay with killing suspects that clearly could have been arrested.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Dark Avorian » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:34 am UTC

I'll admit I'm privileged and naive, but deep in my heart I'd rather trust cops with the disgression to kill when threatened than try and restrict them.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby scienceroboticspunk » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:36 am UTC

I understand not taking in someone if they are actively being a threat, such as shooting at them at that moment. When they kill dogs being docile or shoot someone who has no proof of a weapon, that irks me, a lot.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:18 am UTC

scienceroboticspunk wrote:I do not think he will be caught. I feel like the police are shooting to kill. The only way he might be able to get his day in court is if he turns himself in, in a different jurisdiction with a news crew present.


Honestly, I think he'll commit suicide. He doesn't really seem to have a way out of this one...and yeah, the cops are not inclined to try to take him alive. The shooting at vehicles that merely could have been his is a pretty good sign of that. It might end with him shooting himself, or with them shooting him...but I highly doubt he comes out of it alive.

Agreed with the previous posters about cops seeming to embrace killing too rapidly. If you have to, well, fine...but for the love of all that is holy, at least wait until you're reasonably sure of your target.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:03 am UTC

Dark Avorian wrote:I'll admit I'm privileged and naive, but deep in my heart I'd rather trust cops with the disgression to kill when threatened than try and restrict them.


The police opened fire on people for nothing other than driving a similar truck. Somehow I doubt they have any intention of taking him alive.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:52 am UTC

Well, you know, you piss off a gang (by killing some members, maybe) they throw out all the rules and come after you.

The cops are just proving once again that their top loyalty is to other cops.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:48 am UTC

Thesh wrote:
Dark Avorian wrote:I'll admit I'm privileged and naive, but deep in my heart I'd rather trust cops with the disgression to kill when threatened than try and restrict them.


The police opened fire on people for nothing other than driving a similar truck. Somehow I doubt they have any intention of taking him alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451
How F 451.
The story of an exPolice person that is being hunted. It is so sad.
If the News reports are true, then someone wants this man dead.
Dead men tell no tails.

I have no way of telling what is true and what is fiction.
If the stories are true, it would be good to hear his side of the story.

Did you read the part about how The End for this man began when he charged a superior of abusing a person in custody?
Of course, that does not justify his behavior.
Yet; It may explain the loss of his mind.

He stood up for The People and his life was destroyed.
This kind of story is too common in the US.
There is a great deal that does not make the front page of the newspaper.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Nordic Einar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:19 pm UTC

Dark Avorian wrote:I'll admit I'm privileged and naive, but deep in my heart I'd rather trust cops with the disgression to kill when threatened than try and restrict them.


I've seen the police execute far too many unarmed black men - many of whom had been handcuffed already - to trust the police w/ firearms at all.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:30 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Well, you know, you piss off a gang (by killing some members, maybe) they throw out all the rules and come after you.

The cops are just proving once again that their top loyalty is to other cops.


Honestly, the willingness of the cops to shoot at any vehicle they think might be his does kind of lend support to his allegation that the cops cared about themselves more than justice.

At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker. Even when I got stopped, they'd simply ask how I knew the officer and then wave me along. Now, granted, speeding isn't a major crime, but the idea that you can be exempt from rules simply because of who you're related to is...kind of undemocratic. Bothered me a bit. Took the sticker off a coupla years back.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:46 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:But why the hell is anyone supporting Dorner?

Could be this, too:
Dorner accused his training officer of kicking a mentally ill man during an arrest in 2007. The LAPD ruled the complaint unfounded and kicked Dorner off the force for filing a false complaint. He challenged his firing in court and lost.

The police chief's comments on why he offered a million dollar bounty were priceless. He said it was because Dorner was targeting cops. And cops' lives are valuable. No mention of the civilians who are posting the million dollars, only the cops are worth that much.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:31 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:It is also much better than the police's ratio in this particular situation.


There is a fucking difference between shooting someone because you're afraid, and shooting an innocent person because you know it will cause damage to someone you dislike. :roll:

Dear god, is this forum so blatantly bigoted and anti-police that I have to explain this shit to you guys?

Heisenberg wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But why the hell is anyone supporting Dorner?

Could be this, too:
Dorner accused his training officer of kicking a mentally ill man during an arrest in 2007. The LAPD ruled the complaint unfounded and kicked Dorner off the force for filing a false complaint. He challenged his firing in court and lost.


And in response, he targets and kills the innocent daughter of that officer. Not the one actually guilty of the crime, but the unrelated daughter.

The police chief's comments on why he offered a million dollar bounty were priceless. He said it was because Dorner was targeting cops. And cops' lives are valuable. No mention of the civilians who are posting the million dollars, only the cops are worth that much.


A reason to be critical of the LAPD. Not a reason to support Dorner. I ask again, what reason is there to be supportive of Dorner. I'm not asking for reasons to be critical of LAPD, or Obama (wtf). Its a specific question: why support Dorner himself. Because apparently this forum is far too bigoted to deal with actual police questions. I'm gonna stick with the easy stuff for now. I'd love to debate with you on this issue, but the cynic in me tells me that its not even worth it.

Once again, I ask for a reason to be supportive of Dorner. People have been pouring in their support, but none have given me a good reason yet.

Diadem wrote:The cynic in me notices that Dorner's ratio of innocents to enemy combatants is still only 2:1, which is probably a lot better than Obama's.


And the cynic in me demands me to insult you.... for implying that even one of the killings that Dorner has done is justified. You guys are for public review and open trials, transparency. But when a lone madman takes justice into his own hands, all of a sudden his victims aren't "innocent". You imply that his enemies deserved to die, without trial, without review.

BTW: Drone Strikes are subject to review, and Secretary Gate's is willing to move the review process to Congress or the Judicial Branch.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker.


Yeah. I bought a second-hand car from a friend of a friend and never scraped any of the stickers off it. Most of them are for bands I like anyway (she has good taste). One of them is a donor sticker for the fraternal order of police. Want to guess how my last traffic stop ended?

Makes me feel kindof off, not sure if I want to get rid of it.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:35 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Dear god, is this forum so blatantly bigoted and anti-police that I have to explain this shit to you guys?

No, clearly this man's killing spree is not justifiable in any sense of the word. I just pointed out the defense of the mentally ill to offer some sort of reason he may be getting sympathy from fringe supporters.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Belial wrote:Well, you know, you piss off a gang (by killing some members, maybe) they throw out all the rules and come after you.

The cops are just proving once again that their top loyalty is to other cops.


Honestly, the willingness of the cops to shoot at any vehicle they think might be his does kind of lend support to his allegation that the cops cared about themselves more than justice.

At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker. Even when I got stopped, they'd simply ask how I knew the officer and then wave me along. Now, granted, speeding isn't a major crime, but the idea that you can be exempt from rules simply because of who you're related to is...kind of undemocratic. Bothered me a bit. Took the sticker off a coupla years back.

...wow. On the surface that could seem pretty harmless, but then it just becomes part of a horrifying picture when you think about it.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:49 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:It is also much better than the police's ratio in this particular situation.


There is a fucking difference between shooting someone because you're afraid, and shooting an innocent person because you know it will cause damage to someone you dislike. :roll:

And the cynic in me demands me to insult you.... for implying that even one of the killings that Dorner has done is justified.

Where is anyone implying any of this?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:50 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker.


Yeah. I bought a second-hand car from a friend of a friend and never scraped any of the stickers off it. Most of them are for bands I like anyway (she has good taste). One of them is a donor sticker for the fraternal order of police. Want to guess how my last traffic stop ended?

Makes me feel kindof off, not sure if I want to get rid of it.


Can I buy the Thieves' Guild stamp bumper sticker somewhere? How much does it cost?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby JBJ » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Can I buy the Thieves' Guild stamp bumper sticker somewhere? How much does it cost?

Yes for some, no for others. Depends on where you live, and which organizations support the local police.

The big two are the FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) and PBA (Police Benevolent Association). You can get a donor sticker from either one for a donation. Sometimes they just have generic decals, other times there will be different colors or designs based on your level of contribution. There are other, more specialized stickers that identify the car as belonging to a law enforcement officer or family member. Most often union stickers, or stickers from some other group closely associated with the local PD. Those are stickers that aren't generally available to the public.

It's not always a free pass, though. In some places it might give you a better chance of being let off with a warning for a minor infraction. In others, it can make things worse. Some cops will see the sticker as you trying to get out of a ticket and will be more likely to write you up than let you go. And sticker influence doesn't always cross jurisdictional lines. If I had a sticker for my local county's sheriff youth program (something that my local sheriff's department is quite proud of and very involved in) I've got a better chance of making a good impression if I get pulled over by a sheriff's deputy. It won't do jack for me if I get pulled over by city PD or a state trooper.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:38 pm UTC

Finished reading the manifesto. He isn't 'leftist' at all. Sure he supports gay rights and an assault weapons ban, but there are conservatives who also do that. He even comes out and states that he liked GHW Bush and he wanted John Huntsman in 2012.

Anyway. What it sounds like from his POV is that he saw police coverups, tried to expose them, and got fired as part of the coverup. I don't know why the media makes it put to be a race thing. I suspect it's to give the narrative of 'angry black man' rather than 'man goes crazy'. Why he went to the firearms instead if the press, I don't know. The would've loved the stories he had, if verifiable. I see him as less 'evil son of a bitch' and more 'rabid dog that needs to be euthanized'.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Belial wrote:Well, you know, you piss off a gang (by killing some members, maybe) they throw out all the rules and come after you.

The cops are just proving once again that their top loyalty is to other cops.


Honestly, the willingness of the cops to shoot at any vehicle they think might be his does kind of lend support to his allegation that the cops cared about themselves more than justice.

At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker. Even when I got stopped, they'd simply ask how I knew the officer and then wave me along. Now, granted, speeding isn't a major crime, but the idea that you can be exempt from rules simply because of who you're related to is...kind of undemocratic. Bothered me a bit. Took the sticker off a coupla years back.

...wow. On the surface that could seem pretty harmless, but then it just becomes part of a horrifying picture when you think about it.

Yeah, I'm sure it's a pretty sweet deal, it allows people to run bicyclists off the road with no fear of retribution. Hell, if they know it was you, the cops won't even respond to the bicyclist's 911.
This really happened, last month, to my sister when she called out some woman for driving carelessly and almost causing a collision while talking on a cell phone. The cops showed up after this woman assaulted her(screaming and pointing at her 'thin blue line' sticker, no fucking less), and they sent my sister on her way. They then presumably let this awful woman go, at which point she literally ran my sister off the road. The cops never showed up to the second call. They watch out for their own.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:02 pm UTC

Why isn't the media doing its job and going after this sort of thing? That's the entire fucking point of the freedom of the press in the first amendment!

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:28 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Belial wrote:Well, you know, you piss off a gang (by killing some members, maybe) they throw out all the rules and come after you.

The cops are just proving once again that their top loyalty is to other cops.


Honestly, the willingness of the cops to shoot at any vehicle they think might be his does kind of lend support to his allegation that the cops cared about themselves more than justice.

At a lower level, though police favoritism is definitely a thing everywhere...even accepted as such by society. I used to have a family member in law enforcement in a major city. Thus, my car had the police sticker on it. I'll flat out admit it, I speed a lot. Normally, I get the occasional speeding ticket as a result. I didn't get ticketed ever when I had the sticker. Even when I got stopped, they'd simply ask how I knew the officer and then wave me along. Now, granted, speeding isn't a major crime, but the idea that you can be exempt from rules simply because of who you're related to is...kind of undemocratic. Bothered me a bit. Took the sticker off a coupla years back.

...wow. On the surface that could seem pretty harmless, but then it just becomes part of a horrifying picture when you think about it.

Yes. But, ya' really have to think about it.
It is easy Not to think about it much when everything is Wonderful;
The Police are Lovely, Helpful People; The Sun is Shining; God is in His Heaven and All is Right with The World.

When any one or all of those thing change, it becomes time to think.
Are your Police friendly, helpful people?
Not mine. I have no idea what I did to those people.

If I am not committing a crime or reporting one, they will not speak to me.
You? Will they speak to you?

I have a black and white or two or more outside my window, most of the time.
(Shrug. One of them has made it more than clear; He does not like me. I am not charming. Still. It would be nice for him to talk to me a little before condemning me. I'd, kind of, like to know what bothers him about me.)

Oh, yes. I was stopped and yelled at and threatened by Police, nearly everyday for a while there.
I am glad that has stopped.
It could start right back up again on a moments notice.

It is not the Uniform that bothers me.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:29 pm UTC

And that is exactly why people cheer on Dorner. Because they're frustrated with a broken system that nobody seems interested in fixing. They empathize with his feeling of powerlessness and cheer on him taking action, even if that action is bloody and poorly targeted.

I admit, I've been getting more cynical myself, lately. See, I tried getting involved in some of the local openness and transparency, and found all I interacted with to be a sham designed to bury the voice of the individual while fostering positive perceptions for those in power. So, while I'm not going to endorse solving such problems with a gun, I understand the frustration that makes people cheer.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Iulus Cofield » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:31 pm UTC

I would really enjoy a Federal agency charged with investigating corruption among government employees. Ideally it would be run by Swedes, since foreigners can be trusted to remain out of local politics.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:43 pm UTC

You mean like Internal Affairs?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:Yeah, I'm sure it's a pretty sweet deal, it allows people to run bicyclists off the road with no fear of retribution. Hell, if they know it was you, the cops won't even respond to the bicyclist's 911.
This really happened, last month, to my sister when she called out some woman for driving carelessly and almost causing a collision while talking on a cell phone. The cops showed up after this woman assaulted her(screaming and pointing at her 'thin blue line' sticker, no fucking less), and they sent my sister on her way. They then presumably let this awful woman go, at which point she literally ran my sister off the road. The cops never showed up to the second call. They watch out for their own.
I have this image of the villain from Lethal Weapon 2 after he shoots Riggs (Gibson) flashing his ID at Murtaugh and smugly exclaiming "Diplomatic Immunity!", except now it's one of those charity stickers.

"I DONATED TO THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE! YOU CAN'T TOUCH ME!"

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

No seriously, why don't the news people go after this sort of thing? Does blatant abuse of the system and criminal behavior within the government really sell fewer papers than Celebrity babies?

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Iulus Cofield
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Iulus Cofield » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:You mean like Internal Affairs?


No, Varangians. But seriously, aren't Internal Affairs just officers within the department they're supposed to investigate? If you want to investigate and stop corruption, you need people who are far removed from the situation, which is why I'd like an independent Federal agency.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:05 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:No seriously, why don't the news people go after this sort of thing? Does blatant abuse of the system and criminal behavior within the government really sell fewer papers than Celebrity babies?
Yes.

Have you ever watched The Wire? It's by no means a documentary (and should in no way be taken as a factual description of events!), but it's got exceptional writing and characterizations--and one of the things it does very well is portray just how deeply systematic a lot of these problems are.

I suspect the reason the newspapers don't go after the sticker thing is because it's hard to prove--and even if it wasn't, it's very hard to do anything about. And on top of that, there are a lot of people who don't actually see it as a 'bad thing'. I think a lot of police officers/their families consider themselves part of a tribe--and when you are identified as 'part' of that tribe, I think they are more prone to overlook your indiscretions.

But I think that's a problem that extends to a lot of things: We treat humanity as if it's divided up in tribes--and treat some of those 'tribes' as our enemies.

I suspect that the only way to be a responsible police officer is to recognize that as a police officer, you have a duty to treat no one as your genuine enemy.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:05 am UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:You mean like Internal Affairs?


No, Varangians. But seriously, aren't Internal Affairs just officers within the department they're supposed to investigate? If you want to investigate and stop corruption, you need people who are far removed from the situation, which is why I'd like an independent Federal agency.


Yeah, I've said that same thing in the past. Police have shown time and time again that they can't police themselves. When you are getting harassed by the police, who can you call? The police?
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:34 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:No seriously, why don't the news people go after this sort of thing? Does blatant abuse of the system and criminal behavior within the government really sell fewer papers than Celebrity babies?
Yes.

Have you ever watched The Wire? It's by no means a documentary (and should in no way be taken as a factual description of events!), but it's got exceptional writing and characterizations--and one of the things it does very well is portray just how deeply systematic a lot of these problems are.


Except The Wire was a popular show that made it onto two networks, and while I don't have the numbers in front of me I am certain that more people have seen any particular episode of The Wire than any particular episode of anything on E!.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:40 am UTC

And yet, Baltimore is not unlike a constant episode of the Wire, and nobody really cares much. When everything's edited down to fit neatly into an episode with no boring bits, it's a lot more entertaining than reality is.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:41 am UTC

Thesh wrote:
Iulus Cofield wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:You mean like Internal Affairs?


No, Varangians. But seriously, aren't Internal Affairs just officers within the department they're supposed to investigate? If you want to investigate and stop corruption, you need people who are far removed from the situation, which is why I'd like an independent Federal agency.


Yeah, I've said that same thing in the past. Police have shown time and time again that they can't police themselves. When you are getting harassed by the police, who can you call? The police?

This. Oh me yarm. This. When being threatened, hassled, intimidated, who do you turn to?
Big brothers? Some people have big brothers. Some people have Police people as family.

I don't. We could attempt to be friendly. First name? Any name is ok by me.
Police in the community is nice. Nice ones. Some have special educations in Conflict Manigment and Something.

I spoke with The Chief of Police one morning. He was Great!
Of course, I suppose; A man must 'Know' someone to be stationed in a quiet, picturesque village.
All that talent and education; What a waste.
I imagine his most challenging confrontations are in the VIP parking lot during the County Fair.
I have no idea what that life would be like. He meets with people all day long.
It was not light, yet, and he was meeting with people. He meets with people after dark, too.

A Peaceful life may always include a lot of meetings. The man was a picture of Peace.
He could get a Good Cop Award. I don't remember his name. It should be easy to find.
(Google is amazing) Bret Smith. I liked him. I could change my mind.


Hippo wrote:
I suspect that the only way to be a responsible police officer is to recognize that as a police officer, you have a duty to treat no one as your genuine enemy.

I agree with Hippo. What are we doing with so many enemies?
Some of our people are very, very difficult.
Some of us seem difficult when we are ill.
The list of shit is long. Diabetes, electrolyte imbalances, on and on.

It is just a thought. What if; The Police were trained to see us as a medical responsibility?

Is someone going to look into the Case of the person that was kicked? Is it a media smoke screen?

Is it common for the Police to abuse the public? I have some first hand experience.
I do not think my experience is the common experience. It could be.
That would be bad.

As far as letting your Mom go with a warning. (Shrug.)
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She was fun.

In the best of all possible worlds, the Police like us all.
We all get off with a warning.
Some of us might need a little more help than that.

There is a fundamental problem.
Is The Job to find the bad guys and punish them?

Is The Job to help people?
Someone has this all figured out.
Who?
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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:31 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Meaux_Pas wrote:Yeah, I'm sure it's a pretty sweet deal, it allows people to run bicyclists off the road with no fear of retribution. Hell, if they know it was you, the cops won't even respond to the bicyclist's 911.
This really happened, last month, to my sister when she called out some woman for driving carelessly and almost causing a collision while talking on a cell phone. The cops showed up after this woman assaulted her(screaming and pointing at her 'thin blue line' sticker, no fucking less), and they sent my sister on her way. They then presumably let this awful woman go, at which point she literally ran my sister off the road. The cops never showed up to the second call. They watch out for their own.
I have this image of the villain from Lethal Weapon 2 after he shoots Riggs (Gibson) flashing his ID at Murtaugh and smugly exclaiming "Diplomatic Immunity!", except now it's one of those charity stickers.

"I DONATED TO THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE! YOU CAN'T TOUCH ME!"


Yeah, about that.

Funny story. My dad actually tried to pull that when a cop handed him a ticket. (To be fair, the 3rd world country my parents are from, you are expected to pay off cops in areas. "Speeding Tickets" are tools the corrupt cops use to extract tolls from the populace). Cop gave him a ticket anyway, and I spent the rest of the car ride hearing my dad rant on about how donating to the Fraternal Order of Police actually meant free speeding passes or some bullshit like that.

Yeah yeah, anecdotal. But at least in my area, I know that Cops hand you tickets whether or not you have that decal sticker on your car.

That said, if those stickers really are causing people to think that Cops are corrupt or whatever, I'd be fine just banning them. If you think its corrupt, then its a win. Personally, I think its a scapegoat. My experience seems to be that cops don't really care whether or not you have the decal, but I can imagine that in a more corrupt city, things would be different.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:10 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
The police chief's comments on why he offered a million dollar bounty were priceless. He said it was because Dorner was targeting cops. And cops' lives are valuable. No mention of the civilians who are posting the million dollars, only the cops are worth that much.


A reason to be critical of the LAPD. Not a reason to support Dorner. I ask again, what reason is there to be supportive of Dorner. I'm not asking for reasons to be critical of LAPD, or Obama (wtf). Its a specific question: why support Dorner himself. Because apparently this forum is far too bigoted to deal with actual police questions. I'm gonna stick with the easy stuff for now. I'd love to debate with you on this issue, but the cynic in me tells me that its not even worth it.

Once again, I ask for a reason to be supportive of Dorner. People have been pouring in their support, but none have given me a good reason yet.
You're asking the wrong question here.

The question isn't "Why are people supporting Dorner?" specifically. It's "Why are people so willing to rally behind someone waging a personal war against the LAPD?" There are people who are ecstatic to see the LAPD on the losing side of any fight, however temporarily, because of the illegal means that organization often uses to avoid such situations. See, for example, shooting up cars on *suspicion* that Dorner might be in them. And Rodney King, and every other similar atrocity that DIDN'T become front-page news, that DIDN'T get attention after that, that DIDN'T see justice served to all but rather only to all *who aren't cops.*

People supporting Dorner don't, actually, give two fucks about Dorner. They're not fans of either the LAPD specifically or police generally.
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