Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

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Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:37 pm UTC

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_208660 ... alibu-girl

Spoiler:
Prosecutors said Khankhanian was suicidal over the loss of his job on April 3, 2010, and drove his Mitsubishi Lancer recklessly for 17 miles along Topanga Canyon Boulevard and then north on Pacific Coast Highway at speeds up to 70 mph. He crashed the vehicle near Heathercliff Road, killing the girl, who was walking along the street.


Seriously? 15 years to life for an accident. As someone who used to drive that road on a regular basis, that section of the road typically has people driving anywhere from 55-65, he was going 70 (which is not common, but not unusual either). Yes, he was speeding and got someone killed, but that does not warrant a second-degree murder conviction; I would call it involuntary manslaughter at most.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Diadem » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 pm UTC

I am guessing the girl was white, and the driver is black?
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:52 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I am guessing the girl was white, and the driver is black?


Close, girl was white, driver is named "Sina Khankhanian" (sounds like a terrorist to me).
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby yurell » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:52 am UTC

How much time is reckless endangerment of human life, negligence resulting in physical harm etc. normally worth there?
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Thesh » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:57 am UTC

yurell wrote:How much time is reckless endangerment of human life, negligence resulting in physical harm etc. normally worth there?


http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/193.html

(a) Voluntary manslaughter is punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for 3, 6, or 11 years.
(b) Involuntary manslaughter is punishable by imprisonment
pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for two, three, or four
years.
(c) Vehicular manslaughter is punishable as follows:
(1) A violation of paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 192
is punishable either by imprisonment in the county jail for not more
than one year or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, four,
or six years.
(2) A violation of paragraph (2) of subdivision (c) of Section 192
is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than
one year.
(3) A violation of paragraph (3) of subdivision (c) of Section 192
is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for 4, 6, or 10
years.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Lucrece » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:51 am UTC

If only they were as harsh to people who drive while texting or talking on the phone.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ormurinn » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:53 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Prosecutors said Khankhanian was suicidal over the loss of his job on April 3, 2010, and drove his Mitsubishi Lancer recklessly for 17 miles along Topanga Canyon Boulevard and then north on Pacific Coast Highway at speeds up to 70 mph. He crashed the vehicle near Heathercliff Road, killing the girl, who was walking along the street.


Nothing wrong with the sentencing here. This man knowingly performed reckless actions that he knew could result in a death, and he didn't have any legitimate reason to do so. If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence. The only difference between this and that was that this guy used a much more dangerous weapon, and acted much more selfishly.

Fuck this guy. You want to kill yourself, OD on barbiturates or open your veins in the bath.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:03 am UTC

I do so love the mentality of judging people for decisions made under reduced logical capacity as if they had full logical capacity.

Punish him for a couple of years if you must, but provide some damn treatment. If this was a suicide attempt this person is NOT a continued danger to other provided he receives the help he needs.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby nitePhyyre » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:11 am UTC

Ormurinn wrote:Nothing wrong with the sentencing here. This man knowingly performed reckless actions that he knew could result in a death, and he didn't have any legitimate reason to do so. If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence. The only difference between this and that was that this guy used a much more dangerous weapon, and acted much more selfishly.

Fuck this guy. You want to kill yourself, OD on barbiturates or open your veins in the bath.
Because everyone knows prosecutors trying to win a case are completely objective sources of information. They would never present facts in a biased fashion.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Hawknc » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:27 am UTC

Doesn't second degree murder require intent? I don't see where the intent is from the (very short, not very descriptive) article. I'm guessing there was some compelling evidence shown in the trial which proved he meant to hit the girl, and didn't just lose control of the car.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:28 am UTC

Ormurinn wrote: If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence.

Nope, that would be manslaughter, not second degree murder. L2LAW

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ormurinn » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:37 am UTC

PeterCai wrote:
Ormurinn wrote: If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence.

Nope, that would be manslaughter, not second degree murder. L2LAW


I'm talking about the jail term, not the title of the offence.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby curtis95112 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:49 am UTC

Which, according to Thesh, gets a maximum of 11 years.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:54 am UTC

Ormurinn wrote:
PeterCai wrote:
Ormurinn wrote: If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence.

Nope, that would be manslaughter, not second degree murder. L2LAW


I'm talking about the jail term, not the title of the offence.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/appndxa/pe ... o191_5.htm
lol L2LAW

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ormurinn » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:03 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:
Ormurinn wrote:
PeterCai wrote:
Ormurinn wrote: If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence.

Nope, that would be manslaughter, not second degree murder. L2LAW


I'm talking about the jail term, not the title of the offence.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/appndxa/pe ... o191_5.htm
lol L2LAW


Once again, regardless of what the penal code says I personally see this as a fitting punishment.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:17 pm UTC

Ormurinn wrote:Once again, regardless of what the penal code says I personally see this as a fitting punishment.

well, it's a shame you don't get to decide what a fitting punishment is right?
you said that nothing is wrong with the punishment, but clearly, something is wrong: according to the relevant statute, it doesn't fit the crime.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ormurinn » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:42 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:
Ormurinn wrote:Once again, regardless of what the penal code says I personally see this as a fitting punishment.

well, it's a shame you don't get to decide what a fitting punishment is right?
you said that nothing is wrong with the punishment, but clearly, something is wrong: according to the relevant statute, it doesn't fit the crime.


Unless the prosecution made the case that he did intend to kill someone, and the jury bought it. Not *that* hard to believe, considering he acted in such a way as to put other's lives in extereme jeopardy, and he did it intentionally.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 pm UTC

Ormurinn wrote:Unless the prosecution made the case that he did intend to kill someone, and the jury bought it. Not *that* hard to believe, considering he acted in such a way as to put other's lives in extereme jeopardy, and he did it intentionally.

And that would be fine if it's actually your argument....
Ormurinn wrote:If he'd walked down the High Street throwing pebbles at random, and one caught a girl and killed her, it'd be a legitimate sentence.

but clearly it's not, so...

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:52 pm UTC

The solution to people being harmful because they don't give a fuck is to find a way to get them to give a fuck. I don't see prison as accomplishing this.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:53 pm UTC

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... ng-ON.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime- ... f-the.html

(Both links are two parts to the same story... written years apart. The first one is when the accident occurred, the second is the sentencing)

So... you can kill 8 people in an illegal street race and get 15 years (probably going well over 70 miles per hour) and get off with only manslaughter. Granted, this happened on literally the other side of the country, but I feel like vehicular manslaughter is the "obvious" sentence here. Although, there were mitigating circumstances...

The crowd then moved into the road to watch the cars drive away. The combination of the smoke and the dark morning likely meant the driver of the approaching white sedan could not see the crowd. No charges were pending.


I still think that the aggravating circumstance is that he killed 8 people while performing in an illegal street race. So kinda hard to balance the two events, but the sentences should have been at least somewhat similar.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby jareds » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:40 pm UTC

EDIT: I was wrong. He left "what appeared to be a suicide note".

Old post:
Spoiler:
I find it difficult to believe that this was a suicide attempt. According to the article, he drove 17 miles along Topanga Canyon Boulevard and then along the Pacific Coast Highway for another few miles before the crash occurred near Heathercliff Road.

Topanga Canyon Boulevard is winding road in the Santa Monica Mountains. It is full of wonderful places for suicide. And yet we are to believe that he drove through the canyon road, reaching more level and populated terrain, and decided to kill himself somewhere around here. If he was driving recklessly, crashing itself is not any evidence of intent--the whole point of reckless driving is that a crash is more likely. Still, nothing says why the authorities believe the crash was intentional, so it's hard to say.

And Ormurian, the justice system should be fair. If you think the penalties for vehicular manslaughter are too low, then the solution is to raise them for everyone going forward, not to punish people more harshly when their victims are more sympathetic.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Diadem » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:22 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0216dragracing-ON.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime- ... f-the.html

(Both links are two parts to the same story... written years apart. The first one is when the accident occurred, the second is the sentencing)

So... you can kill 8 people in an illegal street race and get 15 years (probably going well over 70 miles per hour) and get off with only manslaughter. Granted, this happened on literally the other side of the country, but I feel like vehicular manslaughter is the "obvious" sentence here. Although, there were mitigating circumstances...

The crowd then moved into the road to watch the cars drive away. The combination of the smoke and the dark morning likely meant the driver of the approaching white sedan could not see the crowd. No charges were pending.


I still think that the aggravating circumstance is that he killed 8 people while performing in an illegal street race. So kinda hard to balance the two events, but the sentences should have been at least somewhat similar.

Your post confuses me. The sentences should have been somewhat similar? Huh? They are exactly the same, they both got 15 years.

I do feel the sentence is too harsh though. He's guilty of illegal streetracing, and should be punished for that. But if people want to stand in the middle of a smoke-filled highway in the middle of the night, they really have only their own stupidty to blame for an accident. It's not like he hit accidental bystanders, those people were there to watch the race. It's more akin to a formula 1 driver losing control of his car and crashing into the public.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby lutzj » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:35 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I do feel the sentence is too harsh though. He's guilty of illegal streetracing, and should be punished for that. But if people want to stand in the middle of a smoke-filled highway in the middle of the night, they really have only their own stupidty to blame for an accident. It's not like he hit accidental bystanders, those people were there to watch the race. It's more akin to a formula 1 driver losing control of his car and crashing into the public.


Streetracing is a pretty serious crime because it is so dangerous, like driving drunk or without headlights or on the wrong side of the road (and it often overlaps with those 3 things). When you willfully engage in something like that and then kill 8 people you've committed a pretty serious offence.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Flayer » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

If I killed someone in a suicide attempt other than myself, I'd probably redouble my efforts.

If I got sent to jail for 15 years after an attempted suicide, I'd make damn well make sure I'd die within those 15 years.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby curtis95112 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:45 pm UTC

Call me cynical, but the judge probably knows that.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0216dragracing-ON.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime- ... f-the.html

(Both links are two parts to the same story... written years apart. The first one is when the accident occurred, the second is the sentencing)

So... you can kill 8 people in an illegal street race and get 15 years (probably going well over 70 miles per hour) and get off with only manslaughter. Granted, this happened on literally the other side of the country, but I feel like vehicular manslaughter is the "obvious" sentence here. Although, there were mitigating circumstances...

The crowd then moved into the road to watch the cars drive away. The combination of the smoke and the dark morning likely meant the driver of the approaching white sedan could not see the crowd. No charges were pending.


I still think that the aggravating circumstance is that he killed 8 people while performing in an illegal street race. So kinda hard to balance the two events, but the sentences should have been at least somewhat similar.

Your post confuses me. The sentences should have been somewhat similar? Huh? They are exactly the same, they both got 15 years.


The streetracer got 8 counts of involuntary manslaughter.
The original post's story has the guy getting 2nd degree murder.

You're right in that they both got 15 years... but I'm more surprised that the latter got successfully charged with murder while the first kept a manslaughter charge.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Maurog » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:40 pm UTC

The difference here is, that the illegal race driver (as obvious a criminal as he is) didn't intend to get into any accidents, while the suicide guy did.

It's the difference between mistakenly killing someone while poaching and killing someone while shooting indiscriminately into a street. Intent to harm.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:21 am UTC

Maurog wrote:The difference here is, that the illegal race driver (as obvious a criminal as he is) didn't intend to get into any accidents, while the suicide guy did.

It's the difference between mistakenly killing someone while poaching and killing someone while shooting indiscriminately into a street. Intent to harm.


Can you prove that the suicide guy intended to get into an accident involving another human being? If not, then there's no intent to harm.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Telchar » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:54 am UTC

PeterCai wrote:
Maurog wrote:The difference here is, that the illegal race driver (as obvious a criminal as he is) didn't intend to get into any accidents, while the suicide guy did.

It's the difference between mistakenly killing someone while poaching and killing someone while shooting indiscriminately into a street. Intent to harm.


Can you prove that the suicide guy intended to get into an accident involving another human being? If not, then there's no intent to harm.


In the strictest sense there is. He intended harm to himself. Whether that means he meets the mens rea requirement for second degree murder or no, I'd say no. Pretty clearly no.

On a related subject, just went to a....seminar...on suicide. Featured a higher-up in the police force of Washington state that said he estimated that over 50% of single vehicle car accidents are either suicide attempts or completions. It's obviously impossible to know but...still...
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Rysto » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:17 pm UTC

It's not necessary for the driver to have specifically intended to kill anyone to still be guilty of murder. From Wikipedia (although things can obviously differ between jurisdictions):

The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

i. Intent to kill,
ii. Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
iii. Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
iv. Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine).


Depending on how he was driving, they easily could have gotten him on iii.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby PeterCai » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:
iii. Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or

Depending on how he was driving, they easily could have gotten him on iii.

Yeah, depraved heart murder is pretty much the only thing they can argue to get him for the second degree. It's what you would call a legal loophole.
This is an example of the depraved heart murder argument being used nowadays:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... er-charges
The law was intended to be reserved for extremely egregious recklessness, not accidentally running over someone while committing suicide.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:44 pm UTC

Can we make Mississippi secede? That is some backwards ass shit right there.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:34 pm UTC

Can they take Alabama and Louisiana with them? It'd help our statistics in just about everything; we might have a chance of being top 10 for education, infant mortality, life expectancy, Gini index (probably), and so much more!

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:52 pm UTC

Fine by me!
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ghostbear » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:06 pm UTC

Why not just cut out 90% of the south entirely? It'd improve a lot of statistics.

Spoiled cause it's a big image:
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Diadem » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 pm UTC

The big question of course is if all of that data is incorrect.

I highly doubt those IQ figures for example. To begin with, the spread seems way too big.
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:17 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:The big question of course is if all of that data is incorrect.

I highly doubt those IQ figures for example. To begin with, the spread seems way too big.


Starting to veer off topic, so spoilers.
Spoiler:
Since IQ has a hell of a lot more to do with education and socio-economic status than actual genetic "innate" intelligence, expect a relatively large gap between the rich/educated states and the poor/ignorant states.

Basic rule of thumb is, when looking at differences between any groups such as IQ or health, first ask if the difference can be explained by poverty. Because that's usually the reason. Yes there's feedback and it's a chicken and egg question as to whether poverty causes X or X causes poverty, but poverty is in there somewhere.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:21 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ghostbear » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:19 pm UTC

It's entirely possible that it's inaccurate -- in sourcing the IQ data the image mentions that it's not perfect. Similar to what CorruptUser said though, if we trust the high school and poverty stats, than I think the IQ stats would seem to be consistent with those.

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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Ormurinn » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:23 am UTC

I'm always a bit put out when people start "joking" about wanting the south to secede, considering what thenorth put them through when they wanted to last.

We are not only fighting armies, but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war,


In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


So yeah, theres an element of "imagine that, the north is richer and more developed!" when thats unsurprising really.

Theres also the veiled racism of mysteriously wanting the blackest states to secede.

Speaking of which, that those states have more african americans might explain the disparity in IQ

wiki wrote:in the United States, self-identified blacks and whites have been the subjects of the greatest number of studies... the black-white IQ difference is about 15 to 18 points or 1 to 1.1 standard deviations (SDs), which implies that between 11 and 16 percent of the black population have an IQ above 100 (the white mean). The black-white IQ difference is largest on those components of IQ tests that best represent the general intelligence factor g
"Progress" - Technological advances masking societal decay.

Princess Marzipan
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Re: Driver who killed girl in accident gets 15 years to life

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:28 am UTC

I'm always a bit put out when people start "joking" about wanting the south to secede, considering what thenorth put them through when they wanted to last.


Nobody who fought to prevent the South from seceding is even alive today, so ... shut up?
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