Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

webzter_again
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 4:37 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby webzter_again » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:So the subject of this topic is not really the shooting, but the vast liberal media conspiracy? Just checking.


a complaint that a news story above the fold on the front page of various news outlets isn't on the front page because of some massive conspiracy.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:44 pm UTC

webzter_again wrote:
Jave D wrote:So the subject of this topic is not really the shooting, but the vast liberal media conspiracy? Just checking.


a complaint that a news story above the fold on the front page of various news outlets isn't on the front page because of some massive conspiracy.

My favorite bit was the direct comparison between this news event (where a security guard was injured no one was killed) to the one where half a dozen people were killed and more than a dozen more were injured, including and a U.S. Representative who was injured so badly she was out of congress for half a year, only to resign from congress shortly after she did go back... still with vision loss and and language impairment.

You know, having a non-famous security guard injured is really a good direct compare.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

Tirian
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Tirian » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:53 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:You know, having a non-famous security guard injured is really a good direct compare.


Maybe it'd be more fair to compare it to the shooting of the guard by a white supremacist at the Holocaust Museum a few years back, which was a pretty big story. Even so, that guard died and it was a public building.

Steroid
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Steroid » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:54 pm UTC

Again, the scope of the events isn't as important as the political impact. This was a chance to say that LBGT support leads to crazed gunmen, and Christian beliefs lead to being innocent victims. They didn't take that. The other event, the Giffords shooting, shouldn't have been an opportunity to say that right-wing arguments lead to crazed gunmen, and Democratic politics lead to being innocent victims; but it was taken as such. Irrespective of which story per se story deserves more attention, one view of the political landscape is being put out there more than the other.

LtNOWIS
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:21 pm UTC
Location: Fairfax County

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby LtNOWIS » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:06 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Just FYI, here's this morning's Washington Post with this story front page, above the fold (yes, there's the caveat that it's local news, but the Washington Post doesn't tend to deal with truly local news on its front page for obvious reasons): linked for huge. For comparison, here's the Washington Times, another DC-area paper that's more conservative bent: linked again

There's above the fold and above the fold. A column on the right or left and no picture means they aren't placing top importance on it. And it's not like the Post felt there were other super-important articles that day, since the center article is routine political horse-race stuff. Also, the big picture is strictly local news, since it's from an article in the Metro section. It's one step above the "nothing happened yesterday so here's a picture of some kids on a playground" front pages.

But yeah, the media can't be expected to care when nobody dies.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:17 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Again, the scope of the events isn't as important as the political impact. This was a chance to say that LBGT support leads to crazed gunmen, and Christian beliefs lead to being innocent victims. They didn't take that. The other event, the Giffords shooting, shouldn't have been an opportunity to say that right-wing arguments lead to crazed gunmen, and Democratic politics lead to being innocent victims; but it was taken as such. Irrespective of which story per se story deserves more attention, one view of the political landscape is being put out there more than the other.

Lack of bias doesn't mean that all the views are put out the same amount regardless of their relative merit.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
sam_i_am
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:38 pm UTC
Location: Urbana, Illinois, USA

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby sam_i_am » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:23 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Steroid wrote:Again, the scope of the events isn't as important as the political impact. This was a chance to say that LBGT support leads to crazed gunmen, and Christian beliefs lead to being innocent victims. They didn't take that. The other event, the Giffords shooting, shouldn't have been an opportunity to say that right-wing arguments lead to crazed gunmen, and Democratic politics lead to being innocent victims; but it was taken as such. Irrespective of which story per se story deserves more attention, one view of the political landscape is being put out there more than the other.

Lack of bias doesn't mean that all the views are put out the same amount regardless of their relative merit.



As much as the particular story that the OP brought up isn't in itself compelling evidence of bias, trying to argue that the media actually doesn't have a bias is very much an uphill battle

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:37 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:As much as the particular story that the OP brought up isn't in itself compelling evidence of bias, trying to argue that the media actually doesn't have a bias is very much an uphill battle

Obviously there are all sorts of biases that come into play. I'm not arguing that there aren't any.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
Jave D
chavey-dee
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:41 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Jave D » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:07 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Again, the scope of the events isn't as important as the political impact.


The political impact of the shooting of a US senator is bigger than the shooting of this security guard. This is why the one story received [apparently] more news coverage and more political attention than the other. But of course, you have a personal narrative you're trying to weave here, the old one about the LOL LIBERAL MEDIA, so it's conveniently not important now.

This was a chance to say that LBGT support leads to crazed gunmen, and Christian beliefs lead to being innocent victims.They didn't take that.


You'd be satisfied if they did... but you're just as satisfied that they didn't, because either way, you get to be a victim of either the liberal agenda, or the liberal media bias.

The other event, the Giffords shooting, shouldn't have been an opportunity to say that right-wing arguments lead to crazed gunmen, and Democratic politics lead to being innocent victims; but it was taken as such.


Regardless of how silly your claim here is (and it's pretty shockingly silly), it's not relevant to your main argument because of those factors you're ignoring just so you can do a side-by-side comparison of the amount of news coverage in order to communicate your story of persecution by liberal media. In short, you're wrong, and will likely continue to be wrong.

LtNOWIS
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:21 pm UTC
Location: Fairfax County

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby LtNOWIS » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:31 pm UTC

You know what's wrong? Confusing US Senators with US Representatives.

Bharrata
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Bharrata » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:46 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Again, the scope of the events isn't as important as the political impact. This was a chance to say that LBGT support leads to crazed gunmen, and Christian beliefs lead to being innocent victims. They didn't take that.


I like to think that's because Rupert Murdoch and his minions, along with the zombies they've created with their dark magick, despite their bluster and NRA membership cards, are the biggest bunch of cowards in the United States. They're probably shitting their pants while cowering in a corner thinking about what little chance they have when "the gays" fix those limp wrists they sneer at by carrying heavy calibers. Especially given the case that individuals with "traditional values" are no longer the majority in America, and I doubt they ever were, perhaps they were just more willing to lie and be lied to in the past. The reason this has been kept quiet is so "the gays" don't get inspired to rise up and burn every repressive town in the continental USA.


oh, throw some sarcasm tags in there somewhere


Now seriously, is there any case you can make for there being a liberal bias in the media, more liberally biased than just some disseminaters of information being biased to the right, to Wall St, to the political establishment, to the bottom-line, etc?

Steroid
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Steroid » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:28 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:The political impact of the shooting of a US senator is bigger than the shooting of this security guard. This is why the one story received [apparently] more news coverage and more political attention than the other. But of course, you have a personal narrative you're trying to weave here, the old one about the LOL LIBERAL MEDIA, so it's conveniently not important now.

Not really. The guy in Arizona had nothing on him to indicate that he was right-wing, since he wasn't. There was no reason to connect it to, say, Sarah Palin's campaign map as did some people. Here, the guy had the evidence of a recent controversy on his person.

You'd be satisfied if they did... but you're just as satisfied that they didn't, because either way, you get to be a victim of either the liberal agenda, or the liberal media bias.

No, I'm a little satisfied, but the endgame is to have policies I support put in force. If the media were more supportive of that, I'd be closer to that goal.

Regardless of how silly your claim here is (and it's pretty shockingly silly), it's not relevant to your main argument because of those factors you're ignoring just so you can do a side-by-side comparison of the amount of news coverage in order to communicate your story of persecution by liberal media. In short, you're wrong, and will likely continue to be wrong.

One more time, I'm not comparing the coverage. I'm comparing the effects. One is causing people to distrust the right. The other is failing to cause people to distrust the left. That's the bias, and that's what's unfair.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby yurell » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:33 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:No, I'm a little satisfied, but the endgame is to have policies I support put in force. If the media were more supportive of that, I'd be closer to that goal.


The only way you're going to get the 'whatever's best for Steroid' policy out into action is to be elected God-Emperor.

Edit: Oops

Also, apart from it being a horrible crime, this is why the shooting is bad for LGBT groups (source):

Spoiler:
Zinnia Jones wrote:The FRC and all other anti-gay right-wing groups that share its goals won’t hesitate to exploit this incident to portray themselves as the real victims in their ongoing fight against liberal values. NOM is already at it, demanding that bigoted, hateful groups no longer be called “bigoted” or “hateful” or “hate groups” because apparently that will cause people to shoot them (raising the question of why exactly it took so long for that to happen even once). I fully expect that they’ll continue bringing this up for the foreseeable future whenever they find it convenient to make supporters of gay rights look like maniacs who want to kill them – which is to say, always.

And every single time they milk this for more sympathy, we’ll be obliged to recite ad nauseam that yes, we unambiguously deplore all violence, no, this is never an acceptable approach to civil debate in the public sphere, yes, this was a terrible tragedy and our hearts go out to the victim, no, this man does not represent what we stand for… and so on. Meanwhile, they’ll continue working to criminalize our relationships, ban our marriages, tear apart our families, exclude us from full participation in our society, depict us as child abusers, and fight tooth and nail against our progress at every step. And now, they’ll be forcing us to apologize along the way.

You wounded more than just one person yesterday, Floyd.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby IcedT » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:59 am UTC

Frankly, nobody's trying to paint this as gay-inspired anti-Christian violence because many gays are Christian and many Christians support gay rights. The two are not neatly divided. It'd be idiotic to suggest that there's a gay agenda teaching people to hate Christians.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Lucrece » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:01 am UTC

This FRC playing martyr is the same organization that alongside O'Reilly smugly said "he reaped what he sowed" when George Tiller was assassinated in church for providing abortion services.

Nobody mentions that white supremacists are militantly Protestant Christians as well. When gay people run countries that want to pass death penalty legislation for practice of Christianity or heterosexual sex like Africa wants to and most of the Middle East does, then they can come wailing to me. When Eastern Europe jails and bans "Christian propaganda" (any positive depiction of Christianity)-- assuming that the mobs don't lynch the offenders first with little intervention from authorities-- then they can talk about feeling persecuted.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

Radical_Initiator
Just Cool Enough for School
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:39 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Radical_Initiator » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:36 am UTC

IcedT wrote:Frankly, nobody's trying to paint this as gay-inspired anti-Christian violence because many gays are Christian and many Christians support gay rights. The two are not neatly divided. It'd be idiotic to suggest that there's a gay agenda teaching people to hate Christians.

Except, that's exactly what a number of anti-gay "Christian" groups do on a daily basis. "The Gay Agenda wants to turn your children into Godless Heathens, elite soldiers in the CRUSADE AGAINST GOD!"
I looked out across the river today …

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby IcedT » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:54 am UTC

Radical_Initiator wrote:
IcedT wrote:Frankly, nobody's trying to paint this as gay-inspired anti-Christian violence because many gays are Christian and many Christians support gay rights. The two are not neatly divided. It'd be idiotic to suggest that there's a gay agenda teaching people to hate Christians.

Except, that's exactly what a number of anti-gay "Christian" groups do on a daily basis. "The Gay Agenda wants to turn your children into Godless Heathens, elite soldiers in the CRUSADE AGAINST GOD!"

Yes. Because they're idiots.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby yurell » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:57 am UTC

Idiots with a lot of political power that are dead-set against gender- & sexual-minority people having their rights, and are willing to use any propaganda to ensure that it happens & to stir up as much support as they can from the conservative base.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby IcedT » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:08 am UTC

Hey I'm on you guys' side here, I have gay friends and family and and you don't have to tell me how dedicated some people are to making their lives miserable. I was just pointing out why it'd be stupid of the media to try to present this story or any other story as evidence of a pro-LGBT, anti-Christian agenda and why Steroid shouldn't expect to see it. The fact that people on the right believe equally stupid theories is... I mean, it's bad, but it's not really related.

EDIT: Tidied up a sentence there, had a fragment of something else left in it
Last edited by IcedT on Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Bassoon
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:58 pm UTC
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Bassoon » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:55 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:This FRC playing martyr is the same organization that alongside O'Reilly smugly said "he reaped what he sowed" when George Tiller was assassinated in church for providing abortion services.

Nobody mentions that white supremacists are militantly Protestant Christians as well. When gay people run countries that want to pass death penalty legislation for practice of Christianity or heterosexual sex like Africa wants to and most of the Middle East does, then they can come wailing to me. When Eastern Europe jails and bans "Christian propaganda" (any positive depiction of Christianity)-- assuming that the mobs don't lynch the offenders first with little intervention from authorities-- then they can talk about feeling persecuted.


This, this, this!

This debacle reminds me of a post on reddit shaming the man who graffiti'd the side of a Chick-fil-a in West Hollywood with the words "Tastes like hate". The post was saying how "the movement didn't need that kind of exposure" and that "we should be on our best behaviour so that we can get our rights faster". I'll be on my best behaviour when people stop carving sexual slurs into lesbians' stomachs, when gay men stop getting tied to fence posts and beaten to death, and when transgender women stop getting beaten to death for "tricking people" into having sex with them. Why should we have to play nice when the other side won't?

The only person I have any sympathy for is the security guard. He was just doing his job. That's as far as my sympathy goes.

Steroid
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Steroid » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:20 am UTC

Wow, seriously. Fuck all of you. Just explain to me one thing: If you won't recognize the victims in this instance, why in the name of God should I give a damn about your alleged victimization? Why shouldn't I, or any of the people at the FRC stand there with the WBC crew and cheer when one of you suffers? If this is going to be a battle, do you really think you've got a monopoly on righteous anger?

More lack of coverage news:http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/08/15/only-abc-offers-full-story-shooting-frc-cbs-nbc-blow-it-tiny-reports#ixzz23ii4uAux

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:28 am UTC

Steroid wrote:Wow, seriously. Fuck all of you. Just explain to me one thing: If you won't recognize the victims in this instance, why in the name of God should I give a damn about your alleged victimization? Why shouldn't I, or any of the people at the FRC stand there with the WBC crew and cheer when one of you suffers? If this is going to be a battle, do you really think you've got a monopoly on righteous anger?

More lack of coverage news:http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/08/15/only-abc-offers-full-story-shooting-frc-cbs-nbc-blow-it-tiny-reports#ixzz23ii4uAux

1. Name a victim other than the security guard, or stop using plural. Pick one. Unless you think the whole office was victimized by this? Make that case. Against it someone will I'm sure make the case that the bullying, beating, ostracizing, and silencing of non-straight adults and youths is victimization too, but you can just throw 'alleged' in there and pretend it's not real. Fuck you too, buddy.

2. How many of the existing news stories, since you've read them all and I haven't, refer to the FRC as a hate group? Because it's a hate group.

They would love to have you standing with them to cheer every time a lesbian is raped, that would make their day. Nobody thinks that we've got the monopoly on righteous anger, but good job doing that thing someone always does, which is remind us that the righteous anger always stays on the side of the righteous- i.e. 'Christian' organizations and the 'moral majority'.

Security guards are there to keep people like this shooter out. This guard did his job.
What the fuck is YOUR problem? How sad are we supposed to feel about non-life-threatening injuries that someone sustained during their work?
Did this, in fact, get way less media coverage than the sikh temple shooting? Nobody's told me that yet. Why do you think this deserves more media coverage, is it just so that you can observe more anti-liberal sentiment on the 24-hour news cycle?
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:22 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Why shouldn't I, or any of the people at the FRC stand there with the WBC crew and cheer when one of you suffers?
Maybe you have an active empathy gland?

I mean, YOU clearly don't, but anyone who has one should notice its activation upon hearing about people being beaten or killed because of their sexual or gender orientation.

I don't see any cheering going on here, in any case. Just a steadfast refusal to equate an objectively less newsworthy event's objectively smaller news coverage to The Liberal Media Bias you're so absolutely sure exists. So maybe you shouldn't stand there with the WBC church and cheer because you're not an asshole? That's a pretty good reason for anyone who meets the non-anus-being qualification.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

Radical_Initiator
Just Cool Enough for School
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:39 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Radical_Initiator » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:48 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:So maybe you shouldn't stand there with the WBC church and cheer because you're not an asshole?

Remember: you're talking to Steroid. There is no situation where even a hypothetical "because you're not an asshole" applies. Most people? Sure, most people don't want to be assholes. Steroid takes a perverse pleasure in being an asshole to everything that isn't him.
I looked out across the river today …

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:50 pm UTC

How many babies have been left in hot cars this summer?

I think the lack of media coverage on this matter indicates the liberal bias of media and the fact that they hate babies, and want your baby to die.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

Bharrata
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Bharrata » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:56 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Wow, seriously. Fuck all of you.


Mission accomplished. Bias uncovered, liberally.

God Bless Free Speech

User avatar
netcrusher88
Posts: 2166
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:35 pm UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby netcrusher88 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:06 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:1. Name a victim other than the security guard, or stop using plural. Pick one. Unless you think the whole office was victimized by this? Make that case. Against it someone will I'm sure make the case that the bullying, beating, ostracizing, and silencing of non-straight adults and youths is victimization too, but you can just throw 'alleged' in there and pretend it's not real. Fuck you too, buddy.

Oh I totally see how you could argue there's a chilling effect against FRC and its allies but I just can't bring myself to give a shit. There's no real chilling effect because these people, whether they can even admit it to themselves, grok that this is an isolated event and not representative of their opponents as a whole or of society as a whole, and violence against them just serves to embolden them because they tell themselves the Jesus won't allow them to come to harm (how many articles have been published like that already, and sermons written, I wonder?). 'cause that's how kyriarchy works. The powerful don't really fear the powerless.

And if there is a chilling effect? Cry me a fucking river. FRC's very speech has a greater one. You don't spew hate wrapped in religion against a minority group to your adoring faith-blinded followers without inciting violence, most of which is in insidious forms that the FRC has been busy lobbying to keep legal (discrimination is a form of violence).
Sexothermic
I have only ever made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltaire
They said we would never have a black president until Swine Flu. -Gears

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby yurell » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:01 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:alleged victimization?


Alleged? Are you stupid or just wilfully ignorant? There is a huge amount of information available on the FRC; I know about it and I live thousands of kilometres away. How about you look it up instead of just casually dismissing the hate-mongering they spread? Or are you more comfortable in your Fox News-laden bubble, where the white males are the poor victims?

As for your claim about 'not recognising the victims', we do recognise the victim (note the singular?), and I'm pretty sure we all condemn the act. In fact, I posted a link to a blog that condemns the act, and every other blog on that site condemns the act.Isn't it such a shame when you're discussing things amongst people who haven't been lobotomised and will actually argue back against your preconceived notions? We all recognise the shooting is bad, and I'm sure we all feel sorry for the security guard. You're the one that extrapolates lack of coverage of a non-fatal shooting of a single person in a city where gun crime is rampant to 'liberal media bias', ignoring all the minorities that are bullied to suicide / killed and not reported in the media (great bias there), while assuming because we're willing to discuss the circumstances around the events that we mustn't 'recognise the victims'.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:14 pm UTC

I feel sorry for the security guard. You don't expect someone to SHOOT YOU as a security guard for something like that.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:29 pm UTC

Yeah well, as someone who used to be a security guard, you don't generally expect people to shoot you, but you do know that the people coming in the building aren't always people who have all their faculties about them. I know I had to usher out a couple of people who'd walked in to ask crazy questions and may have been on drugs. You sure as hell don't sign up to be shot, but I guarantee you this guard didn't stand there all day thinking he'd never be dealing with someone angry who might have a weapon.
It's not like he shot a receptionist, that would be a different story to me. Security guards, even those whose jobs are essentially to say 'actually you have to sign in at that desk not this one' are prettymuch the first line of defense for a business that isn't a bank. And a first line of defense exists because it needs to. Imhoe, this guy was doing his job. Also, getting shot and then taking the guy down? This guard was doing his job really well. This leads me to believe that he was, in fact, prepared for this situation.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:35 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:Also, getting shot and then taking the guy down? This guard was doing his job really well. This leads me to believe that he was, in fact, prepared for this situation.

No doubt. Pretty awesome. But still, someone actually shooting you when you're on the job is unlikely. Dealing with vandalism and theft is much more expected than dealing with terrorism.

Obviously being a security guard is a higher risk job than other jobs, but I still feel bad for the guy. There's quite a high chance (10% maybe? not sure) that he supported BLT etc rights but took the job with FRC anyway. Maybe he's a bigot, maybe not. Either way he didn't deserve to get shot just for working at FRC. Even if you do think FRC is a hate group, shooting the security guard there is unnacceptable. AND pretty much every LBGT organization has said that!

Not sure I've heard the "traditional values" people condemn anti-gay violence nearly as unanimously.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:12 pm UTC

Truth, nobody deserves to get shot just for having a job, unless that job is like, torturing people.
Like people who work at Chik Fil A don't deserve to get heckled and abused cause they want to pay their bills.

I mean, of course the dude should have talked his way past the guard first to get to the people he was really hating on, but anyone who's going to walk in with a gun and a backpack full of chicken sandwiches is probably becoming a little unhinged. To say that his actions were beyond what someone deserved is a bit of an understatement.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby TheAmazingRando » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:13 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:Not sure I've heard the "traditional values" people condemn anti-gay violence nearly as unanimously.
Quite the opposite, generally....

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Роберт » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:34 pm UTC

My post was full of understatements.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby IcedT » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:13 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Wow, seriously. Fuck all of you.

You don't think you're overreacting a bit?

Bassoon
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:58 pm UTC
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Bassoon » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:08 pm UTC

Steroid wrote:Wow, seriously. Fuck all of you. Just explain to me one thing: If you won't recognize the victims in this instance, why in the name of God should I give a damn about your alleged victimization? Why shouldn't I, or any of the people at the FRC stand there with the WBC crew and cheer when one of you suffers? If this is going to be a battle, do you really think you've got a monopoly on righteous anger?


Listen to yourself. You shouldn't cheer when anyone suffers. I'm not cheering because the security guard suffered. I'm also not weeping because the FRC suffered. There's a difference between schadenfreude and apathy. If the FRC wasn't an association committed to demonizing an entire section of people, perhaps I'd feel sympathy for them. But because they do demonize so many people, my capacity for caring about their feelings is great, greatly reduced, because they don't seem to care about others either. It's rather simple. If they had empathy for others, I'd have empathy for them.

User avatar
Elvish Pillager
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Elvish Pillager » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:38 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
Steroid wrote:Why shouldn't I, or any of the people at the FRC stand there with the WBC crew and cheer when one of you suffers?
Maybe you have an active empathy gland?

I mean, YOU clearly don't, but anyone who has one should notice its activation upon hearing about people being beaten or killed because of their sexual or gender orientation.

Hi, just dropping in to note that we shouldn't equate "not feeling empathy" with "being an asshole".

For instance, myself: I only oppose violence and oppression because they're bad and wrong, not because I feel bad when I hear about them (I don't).
Also known as Eli Dupree. Check out elidupree.com for my comics, games, and other work.

GENERATION A(g64, g64): Social experiment. Take the busy beaver function of the generation number and add it to your signature.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby yurell » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:45 pm UTC

And FRC are being giant hypocrites now; complaining that LGBT 'propaganda' is at fault for setting off the unstable person. The problem? The 'propaganda' that they suggest are actually things said by the FRC.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

LtNOWIS
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:21 pm UTC
Location: Fairfax County

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby LtNOWIS » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:16 am UTC

Well, professional liberal Dana Milbank accurately points out the absurdity of grouping a mainstream group like the FRC with a fringe group like the KKK.

User avatar
Elvish Pillager
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Re: Shooting at Christian organization in DC

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am UTC

What? They shouldn't be called a hate group because they aren't as hateful as the KKK? That's like saying shoplifting isn't a crime because it's not as criminal as murder.
Also known as Eli Dupree. Check out elidupree.com for my comics, games, and other work.

GENERATION A(g64, g64): Social experiment. Take the busy beaver function of the generation number and add it to your signature.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Leovan and 6 guests