Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigger)

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Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigger)

Postby iamspen » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:20 pm UTC

This guy actually won an election.

I know the phrase, "War on Women," is starting to become a trope, but good god, Republicans, if you want it to go away, stop legitimizing it! At this point, if you're an American female, and you vote Republican, it's not because you like their policies or their rhetoric or their political standings, it's because you're not paying attention.

This kind of crazy isn't sustainable, and if the Republicans don't moderate before the next big election cycle (after this one), they're going to collapse as a party. Not that I think that would be a bad thing, mind you.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby sardia » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:55 am UTC

You're not the first person to predict the demise of the GOP based on their policies. There's a lot of scared old whities who are gonna keep voting for extreme right wing until they die.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:25 am UTC

I would like to say, I have a perfect voting record of voting for his opponent every time. Also, having lived in his district for years. I FUCKING HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM and the people who vote for this unconscionable waste of oxygen. You should see his mailings, full of fucking stupid at every turn. Couldn't get a historical fact right if his life depended on it. Worse still, because he homeschooled his kids none of them could actually really hack it at college. Because yes, he sends family updates in the fucking mail.

Also, if you remember back to that worst person in the world debacle about the MO rep telling poor kids to get a McDonalds job, same area. So yeah, the people who kept voting these assholes into office. I grew up with these fucks. Also, the area has a rather high rate of teen pregnancy.

RAGE! RAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEE! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEE!

On the hopeful side, his is the district that got merged so it's an unknown Republican versus an incumbent democrat, so hopefully these fucks round there won't be able to elect another fucktard in Akin's place.

Edit: Have I mentioned just how much I hate this man?

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:35 am UTC

I can't feel upset, or angry, or disappointed by this, because my mind simply refuses to believe it's real. I'm simply too stunned to feel anything at all.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Iulus Cofield » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:37 am UTC

Diadem wrote:How can so much bigotry exist in one person?


He's made from God's original blueprints.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:38 am UTC

I wonder how he learned this 'fact'?

Doctor: The vast majority of pregnancies are from consensual sex.
Akin: So, rape rarely causes pregnancy!
Doctor: Er, not exactly, most sex is consensual so most pregnancies wou-
Akin: Sorry, can't hear you, my mouth has a hot date with my foot.

Though in reality, rape actually has a slightly higher chance of pregnancy than normal sex. High levels of stress, such as the stress caused by rape, can cause the ovaries to release an egg early. Evolutionarily, high levels of stress meant that the species was a bit more desperate to reproduce; Charles Darwin hates your guts.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby yurell » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:51 am UTC

This makes me rage so hard. How can anyone in public office get away with saying shit like that?
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:02 am UTC

yurell wrote:This makes me rage so hard. How can anyone in public office get away with saying shit like that?
There are enough voters who in agreement. :(
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 am UTC

It's the House. Most people don't know who their representative is; they just vote for the party.

Also, the whole quote here:

Spoiler:
Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.


To me, it's more facepalm than rage inducing, until I remember that this guy isn't some fry cook but a guy that writes the laws.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:31 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Though in reality, rape actually has a slightly higher chance of pregnancy than normal sex. High levels of stress, such as the stress caused by rape, can cause the ovaries to release an egg early. Evolutionarily, high levels of stress meant that the species was a bit more desperate to reproduce; Charles Darwin hates your guts.

Wouldn't a much lower, almost zero, rate of condom usage be a much bigger factor than this?
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby kiklion » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:51 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Though in reality, rape actually has a slightly higher chance of pregnancy than normal sex. High levels of stress, such as the stress caused by rape, can cause the ovaries to release an egg early. Evolutionarily, high levels of stress meant that the species was a bit more desperate to reproduce; Charles Darwin hates your guts.

Wouldn't a much lower, almost zero, rate of condom usage be a much bigger factor than this?


It could, but it could also pretty easily be accounted for by only comparing chance of conception of unprotected sex vs chance of conception of unprotected rape.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby HungryHobo » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:19 pm UTC

Probably because many people pick one issue then base everything on it.

"Well I don't like his baby eating policy but I like his free guns policy"
"Well I don't like that he raped, killed and ate one of his interns but I love his record on cutting the budget defecit"
"Well I don't like that he wants to wipe out all black people but he's got a great record on womens rights"

though they're not as bad as the ones who vote one way or another because their house is a red or blue house and that's just the way it is.

but the worst are the elderly. they ruin democracy.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:43 pm UTC

Todd Akin wrote:"But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."


What did I just read!?
To be honest, I think living your entire life as the product of a rape that your mother was forced to carry to term has the potential to be an attack on the child worse than abortion.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:58 pm UTC

In part because the democrats paid big money to help it happen.

You should vote for him if possible so that he wins so that no one ever pulls that crap again.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
Todd Akin wrote:"But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."


What did I just read!?
To be honest, I think living your entire life as the product of a rape that your mother was forced to carry to term has the potential to be an attack on the child worse than abortion.
Erm.

There are plenty of children born of rape that would perhaps resent your statement here. There are many pro-life advocates born of rape that understandably prefer existence to non-existence.

The real problem with the specific quote above is that he is assuming rape victims who get abortions are doing so to punish the rapist, when actually they're doing so because they don't want / can't support / aren't ready for a child. Or sometimes just don't want to bring into the world a being whose very existence reminds them of a traumatic and terrible experience yet whose well-being they are legally responsible for ensuring - but that's still not 'punishment'.

tl;dr this Representative doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby firechicago » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:17 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I wonder how he learned this 'fact'?


It's actually a canard that's been going around anti-abortion circles for a long time. (Here's one example.)

This is a classic case of something that people believe not because there's any evidence for it, but because it resolves cognitive dissonance. If you really believe that abortion is morally equivalent to murder, then the answer to the question "what do you do if you're raped and become pregnant?" is "just because you've been raped doesn't mean you're allowed to murder your rapist's unborn child. Suck it up and have the baby." But lots of people are still uncomfortable with the idea of forcing a woman to carry her rapist's child. So when they hear someone say "Y'know, my cousin's brother-in-law's uncle is a pharmacist and he said once that women can't get pregnant if they're really raped," they latch on to it and repeat it because it resolves the dilemma. If a woman can't get pregnant when she's been "really raped" then there's no hard moral choice involved and you can have your moral cake and eat it too, with a side serving of "all those women who made me uncomfortable by getting pregnant after getting raped are just evil sluts who had consensual sex and then cried rape afterwards."

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:21 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Todd Akin wrote:"But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."


What did I just read!?
To be honest, I think living your entire life as the product of a rape that your mother was forced to carry to term has the potential to be an attack on the child worse than abortion.
Erm.

There are plenty of children born of rape that would perhaps resent your statement here. There are many pro-life advocates born of rape that understandably prefer existence to non-existence.

The real problem with the specific quote above is that he is assuming rape victims who get abortions are doing so to punish the rapist, when actually they're doing so because they don't want / can't support / aren't ready for a child. Or sometimes just don't want to bring into the world a being whose very existence reminds them of a traumatic and terrible experience yet whose well-being they are legally responsible for ensuring - but that's still not 'punishment'.

tl;dr this Representative doesn't know what he's talking about.


Honestly, if you think that a fetus has valuable personhood (I mean real personhood, not that of a coorperation), than saying "punish the rapist, not the child" makes sense. The fetus certainly didn't intentionally do anything wrong. Killing it would seem "off" at best if you had that perspective. And seeing as there's no good way to decide exactly when to describe a human as a person...

The extremely troubling thing is the "legitimate rape" comment.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:44 pm UTC

Aborting a fetus created by a rape has absolutely nothing to do with punishment. At all.

So saying "punish the rapist, not the [fetus]" is a complete non-sequitur.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

This post had objectionable content.
Diadem wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Though in reality, rape actually has a slightly higher chance of pregnancy than normal sex. High levels of stress, such as the stress caused by rape, can cause the ovaries to release an egg early. Evolutionarily, high levels of stress meant that the species was a bit more desperate to reproduce; Charles Darwin hates your guts.

Wouldn't a much lower, almost zero, rate of condom usage be a much bigger factor than this?


Talking about the mechanics in general. Plus, rapists probably wouldn't give two chits about the rhythm method or if the woman was on the pill.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby PeteP » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:56 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm going to invent a method, which I'll call the "Junior" treatment, that allows men to get pregnant. Whenever I hear about things like Todd Akin, I will kidnap and forcibly impregnate him. Sodomy and psychological torture optional. Then, and only THEN, I want to hear them talk about how they have no right to abort.

I'm no expert on morality, but I think this plan could be considered a tiny bit evil.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby sam_i_am » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:56 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:Aborting a fetus created by a rape has absolutely nothing to do with punishment. At all.

So saying "punish the rapist, not the [fetus]" is a complete non-sequitur.


Image

I believe the more idea behind that quote is that you shouldn't kill the fetus. the whole framing around "punishment" is rhetorical fluff.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:02 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:Aborting a fetus created by a rape has absolutely nothing to do with punishment. At all.

So saying "punish the rapist, not the [fetus]" is a complete non-sequitur.

I don't think that trite saying is meant to literally mean that the purpose of abortion is punishment for the fetus, and that shouldn't have to happen.

Instead, that trite saying is used when arguing that it doesn't make sense to make abortion illegal (to protect the fetus) and then say "well but it's okay in the case of rape".

Anyone remember the article that says that the pro-life movement is about punishing women rather than protecting the fetus? On of their arguments is that the rape exception is so widespread, proving that it's about punishing women for sex rather than protecting the fetus.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:55 pm UTC

Come on, you guys, he's just a little out of date. Doctors did say that rape doesn't cause pregnancy... in the 1700s. :shock:

On the bright side, we've finally found out just how crazy you have to be to get abandoned by the GOP.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:57 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Come on, you guys, he's just a little out of date. Doctors did say that rape doesn't cause pregnancy... in the 1700s. :shock:

On the bright side, we've finally found out just how crazy you have to be to get abandoned by the GOP.

Well, it's not like the democrats supporting a Republican primary candidate are a good sign that the candidate is a run-of-the-mill Republican.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Tirian » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:On the bright side, we've finally found out just how crazy you have to be to get abandoned by the GOP.


It's not Akin's craziness that is at issue here. For goodness' sake, Paul Ryan was another co-sponsor of the Sanctity of Human Life Act which sought to define "forcible rape" to make it distinct from the sorts of rape where abortions wouldn't be allowed, and see where he wound up. Akin's problem is that he is working too hard to rationalize a morally indefensible position, or more to the point that he is doing it in public.

I'm not sure that it's abandonment either, at least not personal or ideological abandonment. Modern conservatives seem to have the belief that the Republican primary is like a beauty contest where the runner-up can take over in a pinch if the winner turns out to be unfit for the race. It's nothing personal, just that he is no longer the most conservative person who is likely to defeat Claire McKaskell.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:17 pm UTC

Have you heard the Good News?

Spoiler:
Todd Akin will withdraw from the MO Senate race.

Or that's what Drudge linked me to, anyway. Yes, I read Drudge. No, I'm not a right-wing lunatic.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby iamspen » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:30 pm UTC

You must be a regular lunatic, then, if you can sit through a whole Drudge article without seizing violently.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:34 pm UTC

Spoiler:
No, that's Fox News that I can't stand.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Image
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:This guy actually won an election.

I know the phrase, "War on Women," is starting to become a trope, but good god, Republicans, if you want it to go away, stop legitimizing it! At this point, if you're an American female, and you vote Republican, it's not because you like their policies or their rhetoric or their political standings, it's because you're not paying attention.

This kind of crazy isn't sustainable, and if the Republicans don't moderate before the next big election cycle (after this one), they're going to collapse as a party. Not that I think that would be a bad thing, mind you.


That's a lot of extrapolation there. Was his statement at all well considered? Of course not. But you need not tar all Republicans with the same brush, and such over-generalizations probably do little to encourage anything other than blatant partisanship.

I am, of course, not a republican myself, but I've known many a republican who wouldn't think to make such a statement.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:40 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I've known many a republican who wouldn't think to make such a statement.
But they didn't get democratic support for their primaries, did they?
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:43 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I've known many a republican who wouldn't think to make such a statement.
But they didn't get democratic support for their primaries, did they?


Many a politician, of both parties, has had support up until they firmly wedged both feet into their mouth, then promptly lost it. It's perfectly normal.

Just because a person supported Akin before he stated this doesn't mean that this person also agrees with Akin on this issue. Hell, it doesn't even mean that the person agreed with all of Akin's previously stated things. Just somewhat more than they did with his opposition.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Роберт » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Роберт wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I've known many a republican who wouldn't think to make such a statement.
But they didn't get democratic support for their primaries, did they?


Many a politician, of both parties, has had support up until they firmly wedged both feet into their mouth, then promptly lost it. It's perfectly normal.

Just because a person supported Akin before he stated this doesn't mean that this person also agrees with Akin on this issue. Hell, it doesn't even mean that the person agreed with all of Akin's previously stated things. Just somewhat more than they did with his opposition.

That's not why they supported him. They supported him precisely because he wasn't a suitable candidate, hoping he would say something incredibly dumb after winning the primaries.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby netcrusher88 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:01 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:It's not Akin's craziness that is at issue here. For goodness' sake, Paul Ryan was another co-sponsor of the Sanctity of Human Life Act which sought to define "forcible rape" to make it distinct from the sorts of rape where abortions wouldn't be allowed, and see where he wound up. Akin's problem is that he is working too hard to rationalize a morally indefensible position, or more to the point that he is doing it in public.

Akin's problem, as someone said on twitter (found it: Ana Marie Cox), is that he's making all the other Republicans with positions identical to his look bad. Which is to say, by virtue of party platform, all of them.
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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby iamspen » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:02 pm UTC

Re: Tyndmyr

If his comments were made in a vacuum, you'd be right. But recent history suggests prominent Republicans have libraries full of stupid shit to say about women's reproductive rights/health care, to the point where something like this shouldn't have startled anyone. It's endemic throughout the party, and calling them out on it is hardly partisan. I am, after all, not calling your Republican neighbor a woman-hating misanthropic quasi-fascist, but the people he supports by being a member of that party certainly display signs of such, and it's hardly an isolated occurence.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Jave D » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:17 pm UTC

On Akin's FB page there was a supporter saying that women can't get pregnant if they don't have an orgasm.

These are the people who want to legislate women's health and govern US public education.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:28 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:On Akin's FB page there was a supporter saying that women can't get pregnant if they don't have an orgasm.


And the winner for 'Worst Form of Birth Control' goes to...

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:31 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:Re: Tyndmyr

If his comments were made in a vacuum, you'd be right. But recent history suggests prominent Republicans have libraries full of stupid shit to say about women's reproductive rights/health care, to the point where something like this shouldn't have startled anyone. It's endemic throughout the party, and calling them out on it is hardly partisan. I am, after all, not calling your Republican neighbor a woman-hating misanthropic quasi-fascist, but the people he supports by being a member of that party certainly display signs of such, and it's hardly an isolated occurence.


Plenty of republicans are anti-abortion, true. However, it is hardly universal for them to take things to this particular level of stupidity. It is not uncommon for positions to have some degree of nuance, such as "against abortion except in cases of rape or health risk to the mother", and your entire initial post is based on the premise that this level of stupidity is endemic, and indeed, worsening.

Realistically, there always have been(and probably will continue to be) idiots in politics. However, we shouldn't judge an entire party by what the single most extreme statement on the matter as a whole is. We can easily discuss his gaffe without turning it into a partisan rant.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby iamspen » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:32 pm UTC

You make a mistake in assuming I'm judging the party's constituency rather than its politicians and its leaders. I'm not. I am, however, pointing out that this kind of stupidity, though perhaps not quite so horrendous, is expounded by Republican politicians ad naseum, almost across the board. This was the next (il)logical step in that process. Let's not forget how many prominent Republicans decry birth control coverage because, "IT'S ANTI-JESUS!" or, "I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOU TO BE A SLUT!"

This isn't an isolated incident, it's part of a disturbing trend. And as I said, it's not necessarily your next door neighbor shouting such propaganda, even if he is the voting for such.

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Re: Rep. Akin: Rape doesn't cause pregnancy (possible trigge

Postby sam_i_am » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:37 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:You make a mistake in assuming I'm judging the party's constituency rather than its politicians and its leaders. I'm not. I am, however, pointing out that this kind of stupidity, though perhaps not quite so horrendous, is expounded by Republican politicians ad naseum, almost across the board. This was the next (il)logical step in that process. Let's not forget how many prominent Republicans decry birth control coverage because, "IT'S ANTI-JESUS!" or, "I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOU TO BE A SLUT!"

This isn't an isolated incident, it's part of a disturbing trend. And as I said, it's not necessarily your next door neighbor shouting such propaganda, even if he is the voting for such.



So you're judging the 200-300 national republican congressman, and the thousands of state congressmen based on the words of 5-10 of them, in addition to the words of TV and Radio personalities?


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