Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evidence"

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Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evidence"

Postby Aikanaro » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:48 am UTC

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/24/16681099-bill-criminalizing-abortions-after-rape-causes-an-uproar-in-new-mexico?lite

Spoiler:
MSNBC.com wrote:By Vignesh Ramachandran, Staff Writer, NBC News

One day after proposing a bill that would classify having an abortion after rape or incest as "tampering with evidence," a Republican legislator in New Mexico said Thursday she is clarifying the intent of the legislation.

New Mexico Rep. Cathrynn Brown on Wednesday introduced House Bill 206, which would criminalize "procuring or facilitating an abortion," or "compelling or coercing" someone else to get an abortion after rape or incest, as destroying evidence.

Some Democrats and opponents of the proposal said that under the bill's original language, female victims of rape or incest who become pregnant might be criminally liable if they have an abortion.

But in a statement sent Thursday to NBC News, Brown said the bill was not intended to criminalize rape victims, but rather a rapist who might force the victim to have an abortion.

"Its intent is solely to deter rape and cases of incest. The rapist — not the victim — would be charged with tampering of evidence. I am submitting a substitute draft to make the intent of the legislation abundantly clear," Brown said in the statement.

Brown, who represents a southeastern New Mexico district, is endorsed by a "Right to Life" organization, according to her campaign website.

University of New Mexico Law Professor Antoinette Sedillo Lopez told NBC News this bill might be designed to have "a chilling effect" on women's right to exercise their choice on abortion.

"It is not typical that a fetus would be used as evidence in a rape case," Sedillo said. Testimony by the victim, bodily damage and semen are generally used as evidence in cases of rape, she added.

Brown's first proposal has abortion rights advocates unhappy.

"Any elected official who wants to put criminal liability (on) survivors of rape or incest is cold-blooded," Donna Crane, policy director for NARAL Pro-Choice America, said in a statement to NBC News.

The Democratic Party of New Mexico released a statement Thursday condemning the proposed legislation.

"This bill is wrong, and should never see the light of day in any legislature in this country, let alone New Mexico," state party chairman Javier Gonzales said in the statement. "The War on Women in America has to stop. No woman should ever be forced to carry a child for 'evidence,' plain and simple."

A representative from the Right To Life Committee of New Mexico said organization officials could not immediately comment Thursday, as they are still analyzing the bill.

A spokesman for the office of New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez, a Republican, sent a statement to NBC News Thursday evening: "Governor Martinez dedicated her career as a prosecutor to being a strong voice for crime victims and would never support any bill that re-victimizes rape survivors," said spokesman Enrique C. Knell.

The issue arose the same week as the 40th anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling in Roe v. Wade. The landmark Jan. 22, 1973 decision affirmed a women’s right to choice based on privacy.


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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby yurell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:50 am UTC

It's a monstrous bill.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby iChef » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:53 am UTC

Forgive my wording, but I do not know the proper medical terms. Why can't the results of the abortion be frozen and saved for evidence. It seems like you would be able to gather enough material to make your case. It seems like this should be something a doctor could take care of and let the patient choose to so as she wishes.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby yurell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:00 am UTC

iChef wrote:Forgive my wording, but I do not know the proper medical terms. Why can't the results of the abortion be frozen and saved for evidence. It seems like you would be able to gather enough material to make your case. It seems like this should be something a doctor could take care of and let the patient choose to so as she wishes.


It can be frozen, DNA can be collected from the cluster of cells, or from the mother's own bloodstream IIRC — there's absolutely no need to force a pregnancy on a woman and deny her bodily autonomy. But that's why they're doing it.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Tirian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:07 am UTC

A fetus isn't evidence of rape anyway, only of impregnation. Hell, half these asshats are still clinging to the lie that pregnancy is proof that it wasn't rape earlier in the month.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Fire Brns » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:26 am UTC

This law is one of the stupidest and most poorly thought out in a while. Most laws concerning sex offenses tend to fall into that category as people tend to get emotional over rape or anything that eludes to it.

Tirian wrote:A fetus isn't evidence of rape anyway, only of impregnation. Hell, half these asshats are still clinging to the lie that pregnancy is proof that it wasn't rape earlier in the month.

The second I heard Akin's comments I knew exactly what it would break down to which was the defense in the link you posted. The problem with that scientifically illiterate crowd is that they take a hypothetical 0.001% chance phenomenon and take it to be a proven 99.999% effective phenomenon.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:24 am UTC

Doesn't have a chance of passing.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Triangle_Man » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:37 am UTC

I'm trying to find the words to describe how utterly terrible this is, but they all seem to have wandered off somewhere.

Like...even if you have an anti-abortion bill that provides exceptions for rape/incest cases, this bill effectively makes the exceptions illegal!

And if they get accused of doing this, they can use the 'Destruction of Evidence' and the 'Proper Investigation Procedure' aspects of it to try and shut those arguments down!

It's brilliant on that front, and yet it still doesn't reduce my shock at the very fact that something like this is even being considered!

In conclusion, I hope this thing bombs.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby addams » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:55 am UTC

This issue is being used as The Wedge.

Nice people are being told by tv and radio,every day, "Only you can stop baby murder."
That is a compelling message.

I listened to a man speak. He said the medical personal were exactly the same as the Sandy Hook shooter. It's not true!
He went on to give some huge number of murders done by one doctor. It's not true!
That doctor would not get that much done in two lifetimes.

I watched nice people's faces contort into masks of hate.
The people are at the mercy of the media.
The people watch FOX and believe every word.

Killing babies is a difficult position to defend with sound bites.
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It is a big deal to these folks. It has become their issue. Many would be lost without it.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:05 am UTC

From a female Republican as its author. Just like single-sex institutions and homophobia, there's a shitload of compensation going on here.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Thesh » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:32 am UTC

We should make cleaning up crime scenes illegal too.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Derek » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:13 am UTC

Not gonna pass. She's most likely just pandering to her constituents.

Thesh wrote:We should make cleaning up crime scenes illegal too.

Isn't it kind of already? I mean, before the police arrive.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby yurell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:18 am UTC

They don't demand you keep the crime scene intact for nine months to ninety years, though.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Angua » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:56 am UTC

iChef wrote:Forgive my wording, but I do not know the proper medical terms. Why can't the results of the abortion be frozen and saved for evidence. It seems like you would be able to gather enough material to make your case. It seems like this should be something a doctor could take care of and let the patient choose to so as she wishes.

You could definitely do this with surgical abortions (where they scrape/suction out the contents of the womb), though I guess it could be more difficult with medical ones (where you take a pill and I think can generally go home while your body expels it). I'm sure you could just get around the slightly higher difficulty though by just making the woman stay in the clinic until she's gone through a pad or something and collect and store that.

This is a terrible, terrible bill.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:31 pm UTC

I'm not an abortion rights advocate at all, but it absolutely makes me unhappy. It's simply a BS, terrible reason to try to impose anti-abortion morals on others. Morals that were arrived at from entirely different premises. I'm not fond of when people use some other terribly fitting reason to justify something just because they can't get agreement with their actual reason.

Fortunately, it basically can't pass. Can you imagine the horrible precedent if it did, though? Sorry sir, can't treat your wound. That'd be destroying the evidence.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:35 pm UTC

i was going to post this yesterday, but then i read what the bill was saying, and it is actually worded to say that it would be a crime if you have an abortion for the purposes of destroying evidence, or if you force or coerce someone to have an abortion for the purposes of destroying evidence.

so like, if you get raped, and you have an abortion because having the child of your rapist is reprehensible, you would be fine. but if you get raped, and you have an abortion so that you can hide the fact that the guy raped you, you wouldn't be.


of course, there's ways to abuse that whole thing. but i would imagine you vehemently trying to get the guy convicted of rape would make your motivations for the abortion clearly not for the purposes of destroying evidence.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:54 pm UTC

"The rapist — not the victim — would be charged with tampering of evidence. I am submitting a substitute draft to make the intent of the legislation abundantly clear," Brown said in the statement.
The original wording may have been misinterpreted to allow rape victims to be charged, but when this loophole was pointed out to the legislator, she changed the wording to make it only apply to rapists.

So really this is a non-issue. Unless of course you're upset about the War on Rapists.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Tirian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Once again, a fetus is not evidence in a rape case. The presence of a fetus is not proof that the woman was raped, the absence of a fetus is not proof that the woman was not raped. This has nothing to do with rapists, it is just an attempt to put another layer of government between a woman and her body.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:28 pm UTC

the proposed effect of the law, if i'm reading it correctlly (and unlike any other rape related bills as of late, this one is pretty straight forward), what this means is that any person who raped someone, and then tries or succeeds to abort the fetus (through any method) for the purposes of hiding the evidence of their actions (i.e. rape), then they will also get charged with destruction of evidence as well as rape, and whatever other kinds of charges you could conceivable charge someone with after a rape. so it would add penalties to the rapist in the event that they were found guilty of trying to destroy evidence via abortion.

it's not to suggest that you must be pregnant to have evidence you were raped, or that not being pregnant isn't evidence of rape, or anything else. it's to give extra punishable offenses to rapists who try to go that "extra mile" after they've raped someone
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:the proposed effect of the law, if i'm reading it correctlly (and unlike any other rape related bills as of late, this one is pretty straight forward), what this means is that any person who raped someone, and then tries or succeeds to abort the fetus (through any method) for the purposes of hiding the evidence of their actions (i.e. rape), then they will also get charged with destruction of evidence as well as rape, and whatever other kinds of charges you could conceivable charge someone with after a rape. so it would add penalties to the rapist in the event that they were found guilty of trying to destroy evidence via abortion.

it's not to suggest that you must be pregnant to have evidence you were raped, or that not being pregnant isn't evidence of rape, or anything else. it's to give extra punishable offenses to rapists who try to go that "extra mile" after they've raped someone


Has there been some rape case in New Mexico that hinged on the fact that the perpetrator tried to hide the evidence of the rape by forcing the victim to have an abortion? This seems like such a special case, it's hard for me to fathom that, even if passed, such a law would ever be used as intended.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:16 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
DSenette wrote:the proposed effect of the law, if i'm reading it correctlly (and unlike any other rape related bills as of late, this one is pretty straight forward), what this means is that any person who raped someone, and then tries or succeeds to abort the fetus (through any method) for the purposes of hiding the evidence of their actions (i.e. rape), then they will also get charged with destruction of evidence as well as rape, and whatever other kinds of charges you could conceivable charge someone with after a rape. so it would add penalties to the rapist in the event that they were found guilty of trying to destroy evidence via abortion.

it's not to suggest that you must be pregnant to have evidence you were raped, or that not being pregnant isn't evidence of rape, or anything else. it's to give extra punishable offenses to rapists who try to go that "extra mile" after they've raped someone


Has there been some rape case in New Mexico that hinged on the fact that the perpetrator tried to hide the evidence of the rape by forcing the victim to have an abortion? This seems like such a special case, it's hard for me to fathom that, even if passed, such a law would ever be used as intended.

:shrug:

maybe? i would imagine there had to be at least one case where someone tried to hide the evidence of rape by forcing an abortion for someone to have thought up the bill to begin with....but i have no idea, some people just pull these things out of thin air.


based on the wording that i've read of the bill, there's not really a way to use it in any other way than it's intended. it's not a bill that introduces an evidence requirement. it doesn't say "you must be pregnant to accuse someone of rape". just like certain gun laws that make robbery when armed with a gun worse than robbery when armed with a knife....having a gun isn't a requirement for it to be robbery, but you can get a stronger punishment if you used a gun instead of a knife.

based on what i read, pregnancy isn't a requirement for rape accusations/convictions, but if the victim was pregnant, and you caused her to have an abortion to hide that evidence in any way (someone being pregnant is physical evidence that sexual intercourse took place so it should go at least a little towards corroborating a rape accusation) then you can be charged with rape AND destruction of evidence.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby eculc » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:26 pm UTC

I can see this leading only to the prosecution of doctors providing abortions to rape victims, rather than adding additional penalty for rapists trying to abort a fetus that is a result of their actions.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:29 pm UTC

eculc wrote:I can see this leading only to the prosecution of doctors providing abortions to rape victims, rather than adding additional penalty for rapists trying to abort a fetus that is a result of their actions.

that sounds like a proper way to abuse the idea...
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Iulus Cofield » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:36 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:
eculc wrote:I can see this leading only to the prosecution of doctors providing abortions to rape victims, rather than adding additional penalty for rapists trying to abort a fetus that is a result of their actions.

that sounds like a proper way to abuse the idea...


I'm concerned that part of the intent of the bill is to scare rape victims into not getting abortions. The average person is not a legal scholar and can easily be tricked into believing that having a post-rape abortion will get them thrown into jail. Disinformation like that is kind of the bread and butter of NGO pro-life groups, no?

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:39 pm UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
DSenette wrote:
eculc wrote:I can see this leading only to the prosecution of doctors providing abortions to rape victims, rather than adding additional penalty for rapists trying to abort a fetus that is a result of their actions.

that sounds like a proper way to abuse the idea...


I'm concerned that part of the intent of the bill is to scare rape victims into not getting abortions. The average person is not a legal scholar and can easily be tricked into believing that having a post-rape abortion will get them thrown into jail. Disinformation like that is kind of the bread and butter of NGO pro-life groups, no?

maybe? except that it seems like the person who submitted the bill to begin with, ammended the wording to make it clear that it's the rapist that would get a penalty instead of the victim...which suggests to me that an NGO pro-life group didn't propose the bill.


Heisenberg wrote:
"The rapist — not the victim — would be charged with tampering of evidence. I am submitting a substitute draft to make the intent of the legislation abundantly clear," Brown said in the statement.
The original wording may have been misinterpreted to allow rape victims to be charged, but when this loophole was pointed out to the legislator, she changed the wording to make it only apply to rapists.

So really this is a non-issue. Unless of course you're upset about the War on Rapists.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby K-R » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:55 pm UTC

The Bill as originally submitted is linked in the article in the OP. Here's the revised paragraph, from Brown's website:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:35 pm UTC

koberulz wrote:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.
So now we've got a bill that tacitly assumes all rapists are men, and also makes certain actions a crime for men but not for women.

Oh for fuck's sake.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Fire Brns » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:57 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
koberulz wrote:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.
So now we've got a bill that tacitly assumes all rapists are men, and also makes certain actions a crime for men but not for women.

Oh for fuck's sake.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby DSenette » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
koberulz wrote:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.
So now we've got a bill that tacitly assumes all rapists are men, and also makes certain actions a crime for men but not for women.

Oh for fuck's sake.

i think it's a rellatively safe assumption to assume that any rapist that was able to cause the rapee (is that a word?) to become pregnant was a man.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Greyarcher » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:36 pm UTC

As an extra precaution--unless it's covered elsewhere--they could add that the abortion providers couldn't be charged as abetting this type of crime. To discourage possible chilling effects. It might be going a little far but, with the way some folks try to sneakily push their agendas, maybe it's not too far at all.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Aceo » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:39 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
koberulz wrote:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.
So now we've got a bill that tacitly assumes all rapists are men, and also makes certain actions a crime for men but not for women.

Oh for fuck's sake.


I think I'm seeing PM's point here. As I read it, doesn't it mean that a female who commits rape, and is subsequently pregnant, and then has an abortion to destroy evidence will not be chargeable under this bill. Which...I really can't decide whether this is good or bad, seeing as you would be criminalizing an abortion and then ascribing intent to someone as to why they did something with their body.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Greyarcher » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:20 pm UTC

Aceo wrote:I think I'm seeing PM's point here. As I read it, doesn't it mean that a female who commits rape, and is subsequently pregnant, and then has an abortion to destroy evidence will not be chargeable under this bill. Which...I really can't decide whether this is good or bad, seeing as you would be criminalizing an abortion and then ascribing intent to someone as to why they did something with their body.
Hadn't thought of that--it's a fair point. But that the fetus--or whatever stage of development it happens to be at--should be treated as such important evidence in the first place seems fairly absurd, so I'm not too concerned.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
DSenette wrote:
eculc wrote:I'm concerned that part of the intent of the bill is to scare rape victims into not getting abortions. The average person is not a legal scholar and can easily be tricked into believing that having a post-rape abortion will get them thrown into jail. Disinformation like that is kind of the bread and butter of NGO pro-life groups, no?
I have no doubt that this is it's intended purpose. Even with the better-worded changes, the average distraught rape victim is likely to misinterpret it in such a way. Hell, some doctors would would be leery of it since there is a chance it might cause legal hassles for them. Not to mention the potential loopholes. The wording is just a way to make it seem sensible enough on paper to get passed wile pretending that "uninended" and "unexpected" consequences aren't going to arise. Lately the only time reps give a shit about rape is with regard to the abortion issue so I'm not inclined to give them any slack.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:10 am UTC

I'm not sure if this is some devious attempt to penalize someone for having an abortion, or if it's a strangely specific racist penalization attempt filled with fail...but I'm pretty sure it's one of those two, and I really don't see the need for it. The value of the added complexity is questionable at best, and treating parts of the victim's body as evidence seems odd.

Honestly, even with the additional information, I'm still not really seeing the point of it.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:52 am UTC

DSenette wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
koberulz wrote:
B. Tampering with evidence shall include a person
committing criminal sexual penetration or incest procuring or
facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to
obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of the
person's act of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the
intent to destroy evidence of the crime. In no circumstance
shall the mother of the fetus be charged under this subsection.
So now we've got a bill that tacitly assumes all rapists are men, and also makes certain actions a crime for men but not for women.

Oh for fuck's sake.

i think it's a rellatively safe assumption to assume that any rapist that was able to cause the rapee (is that a word?) to become pregnant was a man.
You're not considering rapists who become pregnant themselves as a result of a rape they commit.

But hey, you're no worse off than the New Mexico legislature.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Angua » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:13 am UTC

I guess if the woman was the rapist then she wouldn't be coercing herself into having an abortion? And the intent of the bill seems to be to stop women from being coerced into having abortions.
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:21 am UTC

I don't really get it. Forcing someone you raped to have an abortion should be illegal even if it isn't for evidence destruction purposes.

"Hey, that person forced me to have an abortion."
"That's terrible! Oh wait, did they rape you first?"
"Yes!"
"Oh, well that's OK then. Unless they were trying to destroy evidence."
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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:37 pm UTC

Coercing anyone to have an abortion, or basically any other operation, to cover up a crime, should already be amply illegal under broader laws.

Wait, are you making that woman have an abortion to cover up the evidence?
No sir, I'm merely coercing her into having plastic surgery for the same reason.
Oh, all right. Carry on, then.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby selfassembled » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

I would pretty much expect all rape victims who are ok with abortion to just get the morning after pill.

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Re: Bill to make Rape/Incest Abortions "Destruction of Evide

Postby Alexius » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:55 pm UTC

Hang on, doesn't the bill refer not to "rape" but to "criminal sexual penetration"? While that is a crime that women can commit (probably, I don't know the exact definition of it under NM law), they can't get pregnant from doing so...

(It also refers to incest, but that's a whole new kettle of fish)


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