1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:28 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Earthling on Mars wrote:As I was looking for that image from Click & Drag, I noticed something just to the left of it...
...which looks suspiciously like something in Time:
Hmm...

That's intriguing, but the scale is wrong.

Also, the Click & Drag universe has wind, and Time's doesn't appear to have any. (See flags.)

Edit: I'll be nice and not disband any papacies today. Instead I'll just order all y'all to wait for it.
Last edited by mscha on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:29 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:28 pm UTC

Valarya wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:ETA2: And in an effort to make it clearer without resorting to ~fancy image editing techniques~, I made a gif with the top layer moving back and forth:
Spoiler:
Image

I can still see the pop out on this moving gif. When I do the picture correctly. In fact, I see two cupcakes and one is moving back and forth. Is that right? Lol


Probably...I overlaid the image on top of itself at a lower opacity, so there's 2 copies of the illusion, and one is moving back and forth. Dragons, cats, lazy-eyed humans etc only see 1 slightly pulsing cupcake though.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:35 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:Here we go with The Last Time Waiter, Chapter 7: Record, Understand, Consider, final part:
<snip>
Now go find out what Drèagan-Sìth means :twisted:


ChronosDragon wrote:Google tells me it's probably Gaelic,

Correct. Like Tèrag and Raghnall.

ChronosDragon wrote:it's "Autonomous (robot) Dragon," but it's a shot in the dark.

One is obvious, the other is absurdly wrong.
Try the Universal Wiki.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:39 pm UTC

Earthling on Mars wrote:Image

You know we're crazy when we get excited over somebody saying "yup" instead of "yeah".

taixzo wrote:I'm a page late for the cupcakes, because this one took some time to make:
Spoiler:
Image

Apologies to anyone allergic to autostereograms.

As with others, I can't see it. Can't see the ones on Wikipedia either. Oh well. I'm sure it tastes good anyway.
Speaking of things I can't see, can any of you see impossible colors? I wish I could.

AluisioASG wrote:The Last Time Waiter, Chapter 7: Record, Understand, Consider, Part 1

Spoiler:

:D

No, :D just isn't strong enough...

Spoiler:
(⌐■_■)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(•ᴗ•)
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


I can see the bluish yellow, but not the reddish green - that one just keeps switching between red and green for me.

ChronosDragon wrote:
Ray Kremer wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:I've tried numerous times, I just can't see those things. I guess my eyes are too wide set, or don't coordinate the same way human eyes do.

First time I encountered them, I couldn't either, but it was only because the directions were unclear. Have you ever done the "floating hot dog" trick with your fingers?
http://www.coolopticalillusions.com/cra ... finger.htm

Once you have that, all you need is control. Next try defocusing your eyes so that the two circles below become three. It can be tricky but once you get it locked in it tends to be pretty stable:

...............O...............O...............

Now go find an autostereogram, find a feature that repeats clearly across a horizontal line, and defocus until N items becomes N+1 items.


I can get the finger sausages, and the triple-circle, but for some reason the images just don't click into place. Also, defocusing my eyes that way also makes stuff blur out, which has the dual effect of ruining the illusion and giving me a headache.

ETA: Don't need no optical illusions when you have technology! Manually made the illusion in photoshop, got this:

Spoiler:
Image

Is this something remotely like what you humans are seeing?

To make it a bit clearer, I also overlaid the layer on top once more, with a difference filter on:
Spoiler:
Image


ETA2: And in an effort to make it clearer without resorting to ~fancy image editing techniques~, I made a gif with the top layer moving back and forth:
Spoiler:
Image


And if you can see autostereograms, ChronosDragon's images have a ghost cupcake! Ooooooooh!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:43 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Here we go with The Last Time Waiter, Chapter 7: Record, Understand, Consider, final part:
<snip>
Now go find out what Drèagan-Sìth means :twisted:


ChronosDragon wrote:Google tells me it's probably Gaelic,

Correct. Like Tèrag and Raghnall.

ChronosDragon wrote:it's "Autonomous (robot) Dragon," but it's a shot in the dark.

One is obvious, the other is absurdly wrong.
Try the Universal Wiki.


Ah. So it's more like fairy then. Cat sith, Cu Sith, and banshee (ban-sith) were enlightening.
You're right, I was pretty far off the mark :lol:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

Earthling on Mars wrote:
taixzo wrote:I'm a page late for the cupcakes, because this one took some time to make:
Spoiler:
Image
Apologies to anyone allergic to autostereograms.

As with others, I can't see it. Can't see the ones on Wikipedia either. Oh well. I'm sure it tastes good anyway.

There have been plenty of tips already, so here are a few more. ;) (Probably won't work either...)

For me, it helps to open the image in a separate tab, so there are no distractions around it. Recent versions of Firefox work best, because of the new image viewing experience (centered, with a dark background).
So, right-click, view image. Press F11 to go to full-screen mode. For me, it helps to zoom in a little (Ctrl-+ two or three times); YMMV, of course, that depends on your monitor, your viewing distance and such. Move your mouse cursor out of the way!
Then, move your head in front of the monitor, fairly close - definitely closer than your normal viewing distance - and hold your head still. Stare at the screen (or more accurately, behind the screen), do not focus, don't concentrate, let your mind wander a little. Don't try to see anything 3D yet.
After a while, things may start to seem a little 3D-ish. At that time, carefully try to focus on one of the more obvious elements in the picture, in this case, the light grey pebble. (But don't focus at the screen, but behind the screen.) If all is well, you'll start seeing the object in question (here cupcake) float in front of the background.
The above almost always works for me in 1-2 minutes.

Earthling on Mars wrote:Speaking of things I can't see, can any of you see impossible colors? I wish I could.

I see all of the illusions on that page. The first one (the static animation) I find the most disturbing. I actually had to go and check that it's really a JPEG and thus can't be an animation, and that there's no JavascriptJ involved.

J: Did somebody mention Javascript? Where??
Last edited by mscha on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:13 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:51 pm UTC

ChronosDragon wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Here we go with The Last Time Waiter, Chapter 7: Record, Understand, Consider, final part:
<snip>
Now go find out what Drèagan-Sìth means :twisted:

<snip>
it's "Autonomous (robot) Dragon," but it's a shot in the dark.

One is obvious, the other is absurdly wrong.
Try the Universal Wiki.

Ah. So it's more like fairy then. Cat sith, Cu Sith, and banshee (ban-sith) were enlightening.
You're right, I was pretty far off the mark :lol:

:D Now read the dog one.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:00 pm UTC

consider-ONG
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

The way Megan looks over her shoulder makes me think that she's about to give in.
That would be twice in a row that Cueball gets his way. (Last time was around np1600, then Megan wanted to keep looking for the reason the sea is rising, and Cueball wanted to continue exploring.)

It used to be that Megan was clearly the leader, but the dynamics appear to have changed.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:23 pm UTC

mscha wrote:The way Megan looks over her shoulder makes me think that she's about to give in.
That would be twice in a row that Cueball gets his way. (Last time was around np1600, then Megan wanted to keep looking for the reason the sea is rising, and Cueball wanted to continue exploring.)

It used to be that Megan was clearly the leader, but the dynamics appear to have changed.


Noooo! Don't give up, Megan!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:34 pm UTC

mscha wrote:The way Megan looks over her shoulder makes me think that she's about to give in.
That would be twice in a row that Cueball gets his way. (Last time was around np1600, then Megan wanted to keep looking for the reason the sea is rising, and Cueball wanted to continue exploring.)

It used to be that Megan was clearly the leader, but the dynamics appear to have changed.

Maybe Megan will give in provided that they will resume looking for the reason why the sea1 is rising. So in the end, she will get her way!

1: big
Wait on.

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Spoiler:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ergman » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:consider-ONG
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Cuegan, you're homes are probably underwater by now, there's no point in going back, you gotta keep pushing ahead.
The top of a mountain is the place the sea will reach last.
And because I can't see these hidden cupcakes, and certainly can't taste them:
Spoiler:
Imagemuch easier to get past a simple spoiler, ain't it?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby partingLance » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:40 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
partingLance wrote:Blindpost from NP 838: I am amazed no-one in the OTT suggested a drinking game long before this.

Oh, we did. Or rather, ChronosDragon and yappobiscuits did on Newpage 491.


(Another blind post, this time from NP 843. Damn the Outside and its demands).

But of course. I (of all people) should have realized, though with >34K posts on the OTC so far, I can be forgiven for not remembering.

Never mind. In my PIPCOF667 Quest, I've slogged blitzed as far as NP100, and am just compiling my data before posting a summary. As always, Wait for it.

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Re: 1190: "Time" - Descent...

Postby ttscp » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:54 pm UTC

...Into Heresy - Ready the Foam Maiden

I think the time has come to talk about plot elements, and the kinds of plot elements that Randall might use (hence the heresy tag).

I'm operating on the assumption that the OTC is a story. If it turns out to be a puzzle or an extended joke, almost all of my analysis has gone down the wrong path.

let me dispose of those things I think are not plot. The beesnakes, squirlpies, hedgemolpy, and molpyraptors don't feel like plot to me or at least not major plot elements. They act as in the little filler arcs to keep us interested at a basic level but don't seem to connect across those small arcs. The location, Madagascar, Africa, Australia, Cassini or Randallverse doesn't really affect the plot and hasn't even affected the atmosphere of the story either as far as I can tell.

So what are the plot elements? I don't know them all, and welcome further discussion. For starters, here's my short list:

The Rising Sea
LaPetite
Cueball's Dream
The Others
Markings on the Wow Tree.

That's not a long list for a story this long.

The rising sea is the impetus of their journey. They seem to treat it as a problem that needs more information. It threatens the tents.

LaPetite is the one element everyone seems to agree on. If she were Chekov's gun, you would think the gun would have been fired by now. She might not imply (as a gun does) such striking action, so that might be okay, but as a storyteller, if I've got something like LaPetite up my sleeve, I need to remind my audience (in a misdirected way) that she still exists. Is Randall relying on our collective memory in the OTT to do this? That doesn't seem to be his way, but maybe.

We've never had a satisfactory explanation of the dialogue from Cueball's dream. It might refer to Megan's fall from the bucket, but that, to me, is a stretch. The dialogue from frames 1130-1131:

Cueball: Our rope isn't strong enough
Megan: What?
Cueball: Hold this or you'll fall

Does this foreshadow something of the end or action yet to happen? Climbing back down the mountain?

The Others exist, but we've only seen LaPetite who may or may not be one of the Others. Hard to know how they will affect the plot, especially when we've come this far and haven't found out anything else about them.

There are markings on the Wow Tree, but we haven't seen them and we only know that the markings are different from the ones Megan and Cueball are used to. Hard to have them influence the plot with that little to go on.

Here's the part that makes the OTC hardest to analyze: lack of conflict. Randall seems to avoid conflict even in the OtherComic. Yes, he'll have a setup for a joke, but generally the characters aren't arguing with each other. In the OTC there's been a little conflict between Cueball and Megan, mostly about whether to continue or not. Even the interactions with the molpies have been non-offensive and bland; Cuegan avoided the worst of the molpy - the snake with the daggers over it's eyes - by going around.

There are stories without conflict, but darned few. It's amazing that Randall has kept my interest in this so long without any conflict either in the main arc or any of the sub arcs.

Characters. Randall doesn't seem to use too many characters in the OtherComic and he certainly hasn't created a lot of them here. Compared to comics like Questionable Content, he's a minimalist in characters as well as drawing. I don't see him introducing a whole new set of characters near the end unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.

And while I'm on the subject of characters: we call them Megan and Cueball, but they don't act that much like the OtherComic characters. Their curiosity is similar, but their knowledge base and sophistication level seems much lower.

Okay. That's enough. So far I'm sticking by my estimate of 3500-4000 frames for the OTC as a whole. Maybe stretching it a little longer. If I assume that the rising and falling pyramid is skewed to the right toward the ending we can still make those numbers. An ending skewed pyramid is common in much storytelling today; once we have the high point, we want to get everything over and done.

|< first < previous

Edit: fix previous link
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:57 pm UTC

Ray Kremer wrote:
Spoiler:
jovialbard wrote:Good points, but you don't say the Jupiter either... so why do you say the Hudson... <head scratch> I mean I wouldn't say the if I was talking about the guy Hudson (unless I was specifying: "Which Hudson? Oh, THE Hudson."). I guess that has something to do with rivers and other geographical features... wierd :D


Good point. You would say the Rocky Mountains are in Colorado, but not Rocky Mountains are in the Colorado. California is on the coast of the Pacific Ocean, but not the California is on the coast of Pacific Ocean. My guess is it has to do with the common noun. Even if you're using "the Hudson" for short the unspoken "River" is understood, and you have to use "the" for "river". Same for "the Rockies". Although, the same doesn't hold true for street names. You go down the street but you go down Maple Street.

Clearly there is much in language that is based on convention rather than logic.

Though my point earlier was more about the application of proper noun names than the use of "the".
I have to chime in here. Sorry. I am of the belief that "rocky" in Rocky Mountains is an adjective. It is describing the mountains. The thing said before about having "one river" or "one mountain"...then you need names for the "second mountain" and "third river". They are not really names, they adjectives. Hence, the use of "the". Like: "the red ball", not simply "red ball".

On the other hand, "California" does not describe the state. (It does, but shush.) Best way to understand it is to call it correctly: The state of California. Using the previous example, would it be "the mountains of rocky"? Nope.

Lastly, street names are just names too. Does "Martin Luther King, Jr." describe the state of the street (or area)? That's why it also is not "the". "The" is part of the adjectival phrase.

I hope this helps.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:00 pm UTC

remind-ONG
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:remind-ONG
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Oh, how the tables have turned!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

ttscp wrote: ...unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.
... which is the theory I hold to. You keep saying how "long" the story is, but it really has not been long at all. It only seems long because we're seeing it one frame at a time, but if you go though the Book of Aubron, it goes rather quickly.

Also, and because of this, I would add, we are seeing many mundane aspects of life that are left out of most stories as nonessential. I think part of the point being made in this new kind of story, is that life is made up of many mundane moments, which he is explicitly making us experience by having us "wait for it".

I don't think it's four thousand frames. I think it will be forty thousand frames.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

ucim wrote:I don't think it's four thousand frames. I think it will be forty thousand frames.

Jose

Which still wouldn't even come close to filling a newpix at full video speed
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
ttscp wrote: ...unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.
... which is the theory I hold to. You keep saying how "long" the story is, but it really has not been long at all. It only seems long because we're seeing it one frame at a time, but if you go though the Book of Aubron, it goes rather quickly.

[heresy]
I was also thinking about this: how long is the story so far? If you made a proper animated movie out of the canonical frames, only filling in the time between these frames, and not creating any new content, how long would the resulting movie take?
I'm going to guess that there's about 2 (Inside) seconds between canonical frames, on average; and this estimate might be on the high side. Sure, sometimes there's probably a much longer time between them (i.e. when simply walking from left to right, or when they're both off-screen or sleeping), but at other times, there appear to be multiple frames per second. For instance, during action sequences, but especially during the fade – the entire fade probably only takes 10-15 seconds at most.
So, if we go with 2 seconds per frame, our movie is 4210 seconds, or 1 hour, 10 minutes and 10 seconds long. For now...
Not that long, less than most movies, less than 2 episodes of a regular drama series, or about 3 episodes of a sitcom.
[/heresy]

ETA:
ZoomanSP wrote:
mscha wrote:The way Megan looks over her shoulder makes me think that she's about to give in.
That would be twice in a row that Cueball gets his way. (Last time was around np1600, then Megan wanted to keep looking for the reason the sea is rising, and Cueball wanted to continue exploring.)

It used to be that Megan was clearly the leader, but the dynamics appear to have changed.

Maybe Megan will give in provided that they will resume looking for the reason why the sea1 is rising. So in the end, she will get her way!

Looks like you might be right, ZoomanSP...
Last edited by mscha on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

ttscp's analysis, applied not only to the OTC, but to stories in general, is really interesting.
By the way, here's The Last Time Waiter, chapter 8: Come and See, part 1.

“And if you wish to know peace you must come to know pain.” — Zack Hemsey

Spoiler:
Raghnall woke up to the sound of explosions and falling buildings, a sound no one in the Northern Lights had ever heard in their lifetimes. The extent and intensity of the explosions was such, he knew it could only mean one thing: Halcyon was being attacked.

The Lights were peaceful cities, but not unprepared. Sensors could report troop movements, both by air and ground, dozens of kilometers away. Dome shields could be quickly activated to prevent anything from entering them. Automated mobile attack systems could track and disable enemies instantly. So, how did someone manage to break into the city and bypass the attack systems?

While running to the top floor to sound the alarms and take a look at the city's situation, a terrible thought crossed his mind.

Sensors could report troop movements, both by air and ground, dozens of kilometers away.


There were limits on the sensors' sensibility. If the enemy's units were small enough, they could go by unnoticed.

Dome shields could be quickly activated to prevent anything from entering them.


Not if the sensors didn't report anything.

Automated mobile attack systems could track and disable enemies instantly.


Unless whoever had designed the enemy's units knew how they work.

The Engineer had created the perfect infiltration unit against the Northern Light.

He had created Michael.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby wizpretz » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:38 pm UTC

My eyes hurt after looking at too many stereograms and impossible colors. I can finally see stereograms after trying and failing many times before. I think I can see the impossible colors but they go away almost immediately.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:43 pm UTC

wizpretz wrote:My eyes hurt after looking at too many stereograms and impossible colors. I can finally see stereograms after trying and failing many times before. I think I can see the impossible colors but they go away almost immediately.


I know, right? I look something like this after trying and trying - catching a glimpse of a 3D muffin, and then refocusing - and finally giving up again

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:46 pm UTC

ggh wrote:Sewer, Gas and Electric! Loved it!



That seems just to call out to be sung to the tune of Brand New Day

Sewer ! Gas and Electric
Sewer ! Gas and Electric

It's a wonderful day
We are waiting for it come what may

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
ttscp wrote: ...unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.
... which is the theory I hold to. You keep saying how "long" the story is, but it really has not been long at all. It only seems long because we're seeing it one frame at a time, but if you go though the Book of Aubron, it goes rather quickly.
[snip]
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Definitely could be, Jose, I'm just offering my thoughts. If we don't get more plot and or characters, I think it would be hard to support that kind of epic length. There are only so many twists on the 'cute little molpy' trope (I am not going to look that up on TV Tropes), before I would guess the audience would get bored and tune out.

Hmmm, if there are 40,000 frames and what we've seen is just setting up for that? I don't know. I claim that we could do some kind of literary type analysis as well, but there's not much data to go on.

HES wrote:Which still wouldn't even come close to filling a newpix at full video speed


mscha wrote:
ucim wrote:
ttscp wrote: ...unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.
... which is the theory I hold to. You keep saying how "long" the story is, but it really has not been long at all. It only seems long because we're seeing it one frame at a time, but if you go though the Book of Aubron, it goes rather quickly.

[heresy]
I was also thinking about this: how long is the story so far? If you made a proper animated movie out of the canonical frames, only filling in the time between these frames, and not creating any new content, how long would the resulting movie take?
I'm going to guess that there's about 2 (Inside) seconds between canonical frames, on average; and this estimate might be on the high side. Sure, sometimes there's probably a much longer time between them (i.e. when simply walking from left to right, or when they're both off-screen or sleeping, but at other times, there appear to be multiple frames per second. For instance, during action sequences, but especially during the fade – the entire fade probably only takes 10-15 seconds at most.
So, if we go with 2 seconds per frame, our movie is 4210 seconds, or 1 hour, 10 minutes and 10 seconds long. For now...
Not that long, less than most movies, less than 2 episodes of a regular drama series, or about 3 episodes of a sitcom.
[/heresy]


It's not really an animation, so mscha's analysis feels right to me. Movies are (or were when I was studying the subject) supposed to clock in at [heresy]1 1/2 hours to 2 hours[/heresy], maybe a little longer for something special. Okay, the OTC is special. So a three hour movie at 2 seconds per frame gets me (mutter, mutter, where's my calculator?) 5,400 frames.

It could be more than one movie, but [attempted humor]sequels are usually not as good as the original.[/attempted humor]
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

ttscp wrote: It could be more than one movie, but [attempted humor]sequels are usually not as good as the original.[/attempted humor]

Hmm. And I was thinking on a sequel to TLTW...

BTW: It's now being posted to Archive of Our Own, too.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:59 pm UTC

OK, it's Time to make up titles for the sequel(s) to Time.

Time II - The Revenge of La Petite.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:00 pm UTC

consider-ONG
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Re: 1190: "Time" - Descent...

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:LaPetite is the one element everyone seems to agree on. If she were Chekov's gun, you would think the gun would have been fired by now.

Wait for it.

Cueball wrote:Earlier, I thought you wanted to turn around and go back to the Sea.

I'm not sure exactly what Cueball is referring to, since I don't think Megan ever said outright that she wanted to go back to the Sea. The closest I can find is newpix 1069: "Walk upriver to find a ford, or turn back?" but that doesn't seem to advocate turning around.

Heh, preview ninja'd by the newpix.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TheMinim » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:06 pm UTC

It's a big body of saltwater where many different species of watermolpy live.
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Re: 1190: "Time" - Descent...

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:08 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
ttscp wrote:LaPetite is the one element everyone seems to agree on. If she were Chekov's gun, you would think the gun would have been fired by now.

Wait for it.

Cueball wrote:Earlier, I thought you wanted to turn around and go back to the Sea.

I'm not sure exactly what Cueball is referring to, since I don't think Megan ever said outright that she wanted to go back to the Sea. The closest I can find is newpix 1069: "Walk upriver to find a ford, or turn back?" but that doesn't seem to advocate turning around.

Dialogue according to the OTW:
Megan, in frame 1594, wrote:We could cross the river now. We found more than enough wood for a raft.
Cueball, in frame 1595, wrote:Yeah.
Cueball, in frame 1598, wrote:We're almost in the mountains.
Cueball, in frame 1600, wrote:We walked along the sea for days and we didn't learn anything. Up here we're learning lots.
Megan, in frame 1601, wrote:We haven't learned why the sea rose.
Cueball, in frame 1601, wrote:But maybe we were never going to.
Cueball, in frame 1602, wrote:There's food and water here. I don't want to go all the way back down, walk along the sea for a few more days, then have to turn around.
Cueball, in frame 1603, wrote:Maybe the sea is too big to understand. We can't answer every question.
Megan, in frame 1604, wrote:No, But I think we can answer any question.
Megan, in frame 1605, wrote:Still, I agree. No need to turn around yet.

She certainly suggested to cross the river, at least; and it is implied (and confirmed by Cueball) that they'd walk back to the sea.
In the same conversation she said she didn't want to do that yet, though.

Edit: cleaned up dialogue
Last edited by mscha on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:15 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby wizpretz » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:09 pm UTC

Megan wrote:I don't want to go back to it. I want to understand it.

I want to wait for it.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:11 pm UTC

wizpretz wrote:
Megan wrote:I don't want to go back to it. I want to understand it.

I want to wait for it.

You're definitely in the right place for that! Image

Perhaps Cueball's brain-eating amoeba is altering his recollection of events...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

mscha wrote:OK, it's Time to make up titles for the sequel(s) to Time.

Time II - The Revenge of La Petite.


Time III - The Molpy Wars
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:14 pm UTC

Why not a prequel?

The Land Before Time
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Re: 1190: "Time" - Descent...

Postby EraObserver » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:17 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:...Into Heresy - Ready the Foam Maiden
Spoiler:
I think the time has come to talk about plot elements, and the kinds of plot elements that Randall might use (hence the heresy tag).

I'm operating on the assumption that the OTC is a story. If it turns out to be a puzzle or an extended joke, almost all of my analysis has gone down the wrong path.

let me dispose of those things I think are not plot. The beesnakes, squirlpies, hedgemolpy, and molpyraptors don't feel like plot to me or at least not major plot elements. They act as in the little filler arcs to keep us interested at a basic level but don't seem to connect across those small arcs. The location, Madagascar, Africa, Australia, Cassini or Randallverse doesn't really affect the plot and hasn't even affected the atmosphere of the story either as far as I can tell.

So what are the plot elements? I don't know them all, and welcome further discussion. For starters, here's my short list:

The Rising Sea
LaPetite
Cueball's Dream
The Others
Markings on the Wow Tree.

That's not a long list for a story this long.

The rising sea is the impetus of their journey. They seem to treat it as a problem that needs more information. It threatens the tents.

LaPetite is the one element everyone seems to agree on. If she were Chekov's gun, you would think the gun would have been fired by now. She might not imply (as a gun does) such striking action, so that might be okay, but as a storyteller, if I've got something like LaPetite up my sleeve, I need to remind my audience (in a misdirected way) that she still exists. Is Randall relying on our collective memory in the OTT to do this? That doesn't seem to be his way, but maybe.

We've never had a satisfactory explanation of the dialogue from Cueball's dream. It might refer to Megan's fall from the bucket, but that, to me, is a stretch. The dialogue from frames 1130-1131:

Cueball: Our rope isn't strong enough
Megan: What?
Cueball: Hold this or you'll fall

Does this foreshadow something of the end or action yet to happen? Climbing back down the mountain?

The Others exist, but we've only seen LaPetite who may or may not be one of the Others. Hard to know how they will affect the plot, especially when we've come this far and haven't found out anything else about them.

There are markings on the Wow Tree, but we haven't seen them and we only know that the markings are different from the ones Megan and Cueball are used to. Hard to have them influence the plot with that little to go on.

Here's the part that makes the OTC hardest to analyze: lack of conflict. Randall seems to avoid conflict even in the OtherComic. Yes, he'll have a setup for a joke, but generally the characters aren't arguing with each other. In the OTC there's been a little conflict between Cueball and Megan, mostly about whether to continue or not. Even the interactions with the molpies have been non-offensive and bland; Cuegan avoided the worst of the molpy - the snake with the daggers over it's eyes - by going around.

There are stories without conflict, but darned few. It's amazing that Randall has kept my interest in this so long without any conflict either in the main arc or any of the sub arcs.

Characters. Randall doesn't seem to use too many characters in the OtherComic and he certainly hasn't created a lot of them here. Compared to comics like Questionable Content, he's a minimalist in characters as well as drawing. I don't see him introducing a whole new set of characters near the end unless this is the first chapter in some kind of epic.

And while I'm on the subject of characters: we call them Megan and Cueball, but they don't act that much like the OtherComic characters. Their curiosity is similar, but their knowledge base and sophistication level seems much lower.

Okay. That's enough. So far I'm sticking by my estimate of 3500-4000 frames for the OTC as a whole. Maybe stretching it a little longer. If I assume that the rising and falling pyramid is skewed to the right toward the ending we can still make those numbers. An ending skewed pyramid is common in much storytelling today; once we have the high point, we want to get everything over and done.

|< first < previous

Edit: fix previous link

[more heresy][with a bit of liberal arts discussion coming on again]
This moment is pretty typical of any story. Something changes in someone's world, they have to change somehow, or go somewhere, etc., yet until this particular moment there's this idea that somehow they can go back to what was before. This is the "crisis" moment. Megan has already chosen what she is going to do... if Cueball doesn't choose so, then the next bit of the story will be him being humbled by his lazy mistake. If he does so grudgingly, then it will continue with him struggling with his doubt, and the party suffering (more than they already have) by his actions. If not, then the story will progress to the final stage, where magical rainbows fly across the sky and... er, um, ya. Happy stuff happens. Either way, I think we're close to figuring out why the sea is rising.
[end liberal arts discussion][end heresy]

Edit: I feel I should clarify... no, I am not a literature major. I just read a lot.
Edited again for poor grammar.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

mscha wrote:OK, it's Time to make up titles for the sequel(s) to Time.

Time II - The Revenge of La Petite.


Time II: Attack of the Molpies
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:21 pm UTC

...sorry for this...

Episode I: The Phantom Molpy
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:26 pm UTC

Episode II: Attack of the Facebug
Edit: or, as ChronosDragon ninja'd,
Episode II: Attack of the Molpies

Edit: the original, which we're watching now, will be retroactively renamed to:
Episode IV: A New Sandcastle
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:28 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Why not a prequel?

The Land Before Time

The Time Before Time
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