xkcd

by **oneofthedragon** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:58 pm UTC

That depends. Half of the remaining living.

by **oneofthedragon** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:58 pm UTC

6 to lynch

by **InstinctSage** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:51 am UTC

Tigerlion wrote:
The whole de-culted thing was my whole reasoning behind this

And IS, the sudden change of opinion over a short period of time makes me think that something happened there.

I picked up that the reason you were defending Amy before she exploded was that you'd de-culted her, but it just doesn't add up.
You got into real hot water on day 2 when you were caught in a lie and revealed that yes, you did try to kill Amy on night 1. Your reasoning was that didn't want to take any chances that she was scum. We all discuss what's to be done with you, and we wound up letting you off the hook.
It was pointed out that you may be a good target for recruiting due to your status.
Now we come here, and suddenly you have a new power and are vouching for someone you'd previously said you were glad turned out to be bad because it vindicated your attempt to kill her.

My change of heart essentially came when I sat down and actually thought about your claim, rather than taking it at face value. Because it's quite a story, really. I want to know:
How did you come across this new power?
Have you been recruited? By whom?
If not, why weren't you using your de-culting power earlier rather than killing?

by **Tigerlion** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:59 am UTC

It is not a new power, I've had it since the start of the game
I have not been recruited. I don't really see why not

I have not been using this power because I have had no need to. I have had no confirmed cultists. If I had targeted, say, a mason, that would have been bad.

Also, early on in the game, (And this sounds lame, I know) it never really crossed my mind to try doing that. The thing that stood out the most was the killing aspect of my role.

by **Vieto** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:21 am UTC

Ok, I feel like roleclaiming.

I have a protect power, and I can use it to protect anyone. I saved Azrael, for instance, night 1.

by **InstinctSage** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:25 am UTC

So killing indiscriminately is preferable to turning cultists (and possibly masons) into straight townies?
Don't you get it? If you de-cult someone it's far more useful to the town than killing them. They can rat out the cult and if they're masons, at worst the masons will assume that person left because they were recruited by an anti-town faction, and try to get them killed, which is a roundabout way of achieving what you would have done if you'd just NKed them.
And if you hit a townie, you'd rather hit them with an ability that fails if they're not in a faction than one that kills them.

You're asking me to believe you have both a night kill and an incredibly potent ability that you simply never realised was useful and I'm finding it hard to swallow.

by **Tigerlion** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:32 am UTC

Well, to be fair, I received it over IRC. I had no record of my role. It was only on a later day when I asked for an actual PM. It was a quick thing on IRC, and I didn't realize its potential.

Also, I cannot use them on the same night.

by **Tigerlion** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:35 am UTC

Also, I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm asking you to leave me alone for the good of everyone.

I've said this once before, and I'll say it again: We are totally fucked. Both amy and Phleg blew up, for reasons unknown. OOTD has hinted there there will be much more bloodshed, and I am not the one to focus on.

Many people can die today.

by **michaelandjimi** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:30 am UTC

I'm quite suspicious, Tigerlion. Surely, to an experienced player such as yourself, it would have immediately occurred to you that de-culting would have been preferable to killing, unless you find a cult leader. That's the only time a kill would be better.

Vieto wrote:Ok, I feel like roleclaiming.

I have a protect power, and I can use it to protect anyone. I saved Azrael, for instance, night 1.

I'm not sure why you chose to reveal this information. It wasn't a very good idea, at least, because now any independents/cults know what you can do. The town won't really be able to change its strategy now that we know there is a protector, as any plans we make can be known by the i/c. Furthermore, the i/c can now mindgame you into working out who to protect. Now, whether or not I believe your roleclaim, you shouldn't take any advice on who to protect, at all.

Felltir wrote:How many to lynch?

Way to like, contribute.

Mild FoS's: Felltir and Vieto
Major FoS's: Tigerlion

The latter will probably turn into a vote.

by **Vieto** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:52 am UTC

note taken, M&J. However, there is reason to my madness.

by **InstinctSage** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:54 am UTC

Tigerlion wrote:Also, I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm asking you to leave me alone for the good of everyone.

I've said this once before, and I'll say it again: We are totally fucked. Both amy and Phleg blew up, for reasons unknown. OOTD has hinted there there will be much more bloodshed, and I am not the one to focus on.

Many people can die today.

I thought Amy and Phleg's spontaneous combustion was due to them being vampires while the head (Vox) was killed:

Vox Imperatoris wrote:I shoulda told you guys that the eternal life came with a curse.

Granted it's not confirmed, but it's a reasonable explanation, unless we're going to start hunting for someone who has the ability to cause multiple daykills by some unknown means.

Look, the bottom line is if I don't trust your claim, I don't know what to make of you other than you're anti-town. While I'm not against discussing who else could be anti-town, right now your defense amounts to saying we should look for a more dangerous anti-town body than you. You have a night kill. If we were to lynch you, it would be night and whatever bloodshed we might be at risk of suffering today would be gone for at least that long, plus we'd be saving whatever townie you might try to kill tonight.

I can't just "leave you alone" if I feel you're not working towards the good of everyone.

Addendum: IRC game discussions are really starting to bug me. It's happening more and more that people are either receiving info from mods over IRC, or discussing the game in IRC, and it's just causing trouble.

by **Tigerlion** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:15 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:Look, the bottom line is if I don't trust your claim, I don't know what to make of you other than you're anti-town. While I'm not against discussing who else could be anti-town, right now your defense amounts to saying we should look for a more dangerous anti-town body than you. You have a night kill. If we were to lynch you, it would be night and whatever bloodshed we might be at risk of suffering today would be gone for at least that long, plus we'd be saving whatever townie you might try to kill tonight.

The town is almost dead. There's a pretty big chance that you are anti-town as well. It is impossible for them to win, OOTD said. Most people here gotta be part of some cult. Talking in terms of town is silly. This is a scumtell as any.

michaelandjimi wrote:I'm quite suspicious, Tigerlion. Surely, to an experienced player such as yourself, it would have immediately occurred to you that de-culting would have been preferable to killing, unless you find a cult leader. That's the only time a kill would be better.

I've explained this. It was obscurity of PMs (or lack thereof), and also the fact that the cults weren't quite as prominent.

And experience doesn't mean 'good'. There are plenty of experienced players who use bad strategy. Bulvox does quick daykills, like in the sins game or the hospital one, Mega lurks like the dickens, I lurk like the dickens, etc.

Look, way I see it here, IS is part of a cult, and I'm the biggest threat to that cult (or any cult, really.)

Vote: IS

by **oneofthedragon** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:21 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:Addendum: IRC game discussions are really starting to bug me. It's happening more and more that people are either receiving info from mods over IRC, or discussing the game in IRC, and it's just causing trouble.

You know, most of the time, the people who have the problems with IRC are the ones who are in there the least.

Now you could claim this is because the people on IRC get full modsheets for games that haven't even started yet, but it's more because it's not particularly a problem. Most of the time the discussion happens between dead people, and info the mod gives is done via private messages on IRC, and in many cases it's rather mundane.

There are people in IRC 24/7 and maybe once a week there is a piece of info that maybe gives a slight unfair advantage.

Hell, people get more info pming me with questions than IRC.

For the most part, it's a non-issue.

I'm also not sure what you're referring to IS.

Oh. And IS has been lynched. It is now night.

Send all night actions to me and Myrrh.

by **Tigerlion** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:22 am UTC

Shit.

by **Vieto** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:30 am UTC

That complicates things.

by **InstinctSage** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:06 am UTC

oneofthedragon wrote:You know, most of the time, the people who have the problems with IRC are the ones who are in there the least.

Now you could claim this is because the people on IRC get full modsheets for games that haven't even started yet, but it's more because it's not particularly a problem. Most of the time the discussion happens between dead people, and info the mod gives is done via private messages on IRC, and in many cases it's rather mundane.

There are people in IRC 24/7 and maybe once a week there is a piece of info that maybe gives a slight unfair advantage.

Hell, people get more info pming me with questions than IRC.

For the most part, it's a non-issue.

I'm also not sure what you're referring to IS.

I'm not on some anti-IRC crusade. The only reason I'm not on there is I'm mostly here from work and while my employers don't mind a bit of forum browsing and downtime, they wouldn't really appreciate me having an open chat window going on, just like they don't approve of messenger programs and the like.

I also don't care about dead people talking about games or getting the modsheet posted before it comes on the forum, and I'm not claiming IRC people get an unfair advantage.
The only reason I piped up this time (and it is the first time) was because Tigion didn't get his role description PMed to him. He had no copy of it and no reference. I'm aware it's probably deemed minor by the rest of you, but it's caused an effect in the game.

The prime reason I put forward the Mafia Mod account idea was to keep all game related materials in one place for all mods/co-mods so that everyone got the information they needed and it was all managed effectively, because we have had problems before, such as:
The main mod keeps an offline mod sheet which no co-mods have access to, co-mods help with vote counting but defer almost all rule clarifications, because if they make a clarification the main mod might overrule it later.
From time to time a role description PM is skipped. Generally gets cleared up pretty quickly when someone says "hey, didn't get my role PM".

This is only going to get worse if mods start using IRC to perform mod duties.
If you're telling some people over IRC and others over PM things ARE going to get confused.
If you're doing modwork over IRC you have no record of it unless you're willing to printscreen or keep a chat history, in which case it's offline and inaccessible to any co-mods, or to you if you operate from another computer.

If someone's on IRC, chances are they are either on xkcd, or can be on it to receive a PM, which is recorded and logged for reference.
It's difficult to put forward exactly why this should be important, since it's a casual game and we're all having fun and so on. The simple fact is it's not hard, and it outright prevents this stuff from happening. I don't think anybody should be able to make administration issues an excuse for in-game behaviour beyond saying "Sorry I missed my night action, I was away for 12 hours"

by **oneofthedragon** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:28 am UTC

I use IRC for a good part of modding duties.

There is no reason not to, it makes it much easier on me, and in all honesty, it isn't the mod's job to make sure the players remember their roles. Information is available to all players simply by PMing the mod, and getting the info out on IRC makes it easier on the mod for the majority of players, those forgetting, or not copying their role being the minority of people.

Honestly, it is significantly easier over IRC compared to pming. Send off 20-30 individual pms, plus the inevitable clarifications and such can take a LONG time. Over IRC, it's significantly easier, and faster for the players and mod..

PMs get lost too, especially for people who receive a large volume (me, for example).

For the record, I have everything since august logged.

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:57 am UTC

24 hours

by **myrrh7x** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:08 am UTC

Hmmm.
Internet's been out at my house.

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:52 pm UTC

Day 7
Cycoden is dead. He was the leader of the Paragons of Darkness
Az is dead. He was town (t-shirt ninja)
Amy was the Leader of the Order of the Evil String
Phlegm was the (town) watchmaker
IS was (town)

And as morning starts, tigerlion EXPLODES FOR "HAMMERING" IS.

The paragons of darkness have been crushed.

And with that, the Order of the evil string, with current members Felltir, Vieto, JoJ, and Maj, are TeH WINZORZ, along with all dead memebers, including Amy, the original leader, so long as they were loyal to the cult. I will answer any and all questions, as well as posting roles/night actions.

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:54 pm UTC

Spoiler:

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:56 pm UTC

Cults that spawned:
Order of the evil string: NK immune, 1/2 votes to lynch
Paragons of darkness 1 vote to lynch, nk immune, 1 daykill per member.

by **Sungura** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:58 pm UTC

WOOHOOO!!!!

Thank you to my lovely team....Felltir, you were with me from the start

JoJ, my second recruit, and MaJ my third. CF, sorry your were killed the night I recruited ya :/ and then I died the next day, but my OotES lived on! (And I find it awesomely funny that my next recruit was going to be Vieto and that is what you guys did!)

by **Sungura** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:13 pm UTC

So...heehee yeah what I said before about the vamps...100% true I just left out some stuff.

I lost my alignment to them though N1 when OB recruited me to the Puppet Cult. Since the two cults do not get along I mutated into my own cult as the leader of the Order of the Evil Strings. I recruited Felltir that first night (n1) and then JoJ (n2). I was then recruited to the Mafia, and OB and CVSoul died. So at my climax of the game I had five roles - Vamps (not loyal), Puppets (not loyal), Mafia (not loyal), Order of the Evil Strings (Loyal), plus my own role (listening in to conversations at night). I recruited MaJ n3, and this is when he told me about the bomb, except I understood it as that whoever Vox said the name of, Vox and this person would blow up. Shocked then the next morning when Phleg was still alive, and then started attacking me. That's what screwed up my game. I knew as soon as that happened I was 99% dead, which of course, Phleg said my name and we both blew. I had wanted to recruit Vieto next and I don't remember if I said that the night before or if Felltir just was thinking the same way I did with that one, but that's cool how it worked out either way.

My personal role actually never served any purpose. Every night OOTD said "you hear nothing" - and I started questioning why and said I would understand eventually and I still don't, so OOTD if you could explain that (catch me on the irc or something if you want) that would be great. I usually listened to Tigerlion or Az. I think I listened to MaJ the night before I recruited him.

That was one awesome game :mrgreen:

by **crucialityfactor** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:18 pm UTC

All I have to say is...Too many cults...when I have my own cult you know something's wrong with the game.

Also, make note, nothing in my role about having a cult. It just happened the night I died because Amy recruited me. But then I guess both IS and Vieto killed me.

Even though I was bulletproof AND I had used my red power (protection I guess) on myself...

I don't care what you say OOTD. You say someone can't be NK'd they shouldn't be NK'd.

by **Sungura** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:20 pm UTC

ebwop (to the one above CF's): The de-cult by Tigerlion did not work because I was the cult leader. It just ended up helping my case when I came clean with the whole vampire thing, 'cept Phleg said my name anyway.

And yeah CF - I agree, the "un-NK-able" really didn't totally hold true which was a bit annoying. But I liked having all the cults, it was crazy fun.

by **kellsbells** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:56 pm UTC

Wow, that was... impressive. Nicely done, Amy and others.

Sungura wrote:And yeah CF - I agree, the "un-NK-able" really didn't totally hold true which was a bit annoying. But I liked having all the cults, it was crazy fun.

I had a problem with this as well. Why tell me I can't die if I end up dying anyway?!

by **Vieto** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:23 pm UTC

Btw, I was almost solely responsible for the deaths of N1. But it wasn't my fault: it was everyone who attacked Azrael's fault.

and yes, too many cults. I was foolish to think I was safe.

by **Azrael001** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

Thanks Vieto. I like to think that it was my fault that so many people died.

by **Tigerlion** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:11 pm UTC

Fuck That Shit!

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:52 pm UTC

The two times when unnkable stopped working were thus:
1. Non 1 shot abilities (for the most part) still were killed by vieto. Why? When your flesh is eaten to the bone, I doubt you're suddenly going to grow it all back. (vieto's abilit)
2. When you have a grenade strapped to you, and you blow up, you'll look nice splattered against the wall, but you're not going to survive. (cherry/radman's ability)

by **oneofthedragon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:54 pm UTC

Cults:
Vamps: No nks (see above) 1/2 votes to lynch (if I saw in time)
Werewolves: Same thing
Robots/Puppets:Normal cults
Order of the evil string:: Same as vamps/werewolves
Paragons of Darkness: 1 vote to lynch, but a free daykill on recruit.
Mafia: Normal
Mason: Normal

by **crucialityfactor** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:58 pm UTC

I'm not arguing why they happened. I'm just saying don't give people the idea that they are safe at night if there are ways for them to die.

Also, this is a game that had evil sock puppets and vampires, don't try to bring your realism into it when it's convenient.

Regardless, the game is over, and I'm not disputing the outcome. It was for the most part very fun, and I commend you for that. I would just suggest that in the future only say bulletproof/un-nkable if it's actually true.

by **cycoden** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:59 pm UTC

What effect (if any) did my role randomisation powers have last night?

by **Vieto** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:00 am UTC

I didn't Nk! you nked! I just protected

by **crucialityfactor** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:02 am UTC

I didn't nk.

by **oneofthedragon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:08 am UTC

It was not actually a night kill. I can get technical if you like, but the grenade was a dawnkill, it happened after night ended, and vieto's was a self-defensekill, not a nk. But that's semantics.

Role randomization: I got both actions about the same of the time, (recruit and randomizing) so I flipped a coin. It was randomized, then the recruit occured.

by **InstinctSage** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:08 am UTC

I didn't expect to survive long at all. And then when I was recruited by CF and told my bomb didn't go off I felt like an idiot.
But at least I took down Tigion with me. That's all I wanted: to take someone out in a blaze of glory.
It turned out great when I had one vote to kill me.

by **oneofthedragon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:20 am UTC

CF's recruits were guaranteed to work. I assumed this meant no dying in the process of recruiting.

by **crucialityfactor** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:22 am UTC

But...didn't i die because I recruited someone who Vieto was protecting?

I'm still confused about this game...I think it's best that I just go fall down stairs until i forget all about it.

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