Bush attacked with shoes

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:11 pm UTC

Oh me yarm SHOES...

anyway, i could seriously watch this over and over again. i never knew bush had cat like reflexes.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:39 pm UTC

Just found this mugshot of al-Zaidi.

Image
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:47 pm UTC

Damn, they're chucking shoes at him now. That's just about as pissed off as Arabs get without actually attacking someone.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
22/7 wrote:IFLP. I understand that it's a relatively serious assault, but I have a bad feeling about what punishment "barbaric acts" carries.
It's a fairly serious insult, but the mark of a civilized society is that you can insult someone without any repercussions (excluding slander/libel). It's also a mark of a civilized society that you can't assault someone without any repercussions, so this guy does need to be punished for throwing something at someone-
But throwing shoes at someone is assault. I was saying that it was a "relatively serious assault" in that it was made on a foreign head-of-state. I would expect to be punished more harshly for taking a swing at, say, the PM of Thailand than some guy at a bar. I don't give a rat's ass about what the guy said or what connotations him assaulting Bush in a particular manner have, I only care that he assaulted a foreign head-of-state.
Vaniver wrote:but he shouldn't be punished for insulting a foreign president being welcomed by the government.
I whole-heartedly disagree, for the same reason I think you should be punished more harshly for murdering a police officer or elected official than $citizen. It's not a matter of one person's life being worth more than another, it's a matter of the message not punishing them more harshly sends.
Vaniver wrote:[edit]I am amused that IFLP stands for both "I feel like puking" and "Index to Foreign Legal Periodicals."
That's not how I used it, btw.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:26 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:It's not a matter of one person's life being worth more than another, it's a matter of the message not punishing them more harshly sends.


Doesn't a harsher punishment send the message that you deny in the first part of that sentence?
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Guff » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

armandtanzarian wrote:Image
I don't know what the rules are for posting pictures, but I thought his years in dodging service served him well looking at this GIF.
I like how al-Maliki played defense on the second shoe.

After watching this, though, I can truly say this is the first time I've been proud of our President. I would've gotten bonked right in the nose.

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:21 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:
22/7 wrote:It's not a matter of one person's life being worth more than another, it's a matter of the message not punishing them more harshly sends.
Doesn't a harsher punishment send the message that you deny in the first part of that sentence?
It does send that message, yes, but it's (IMO) more dangerous to send the opposite message (that the head-of-state is no more important (and therefore no better protected) than a tourist or even a low-level government employee/contractor there on business. The problem is that if you kill the head-of-state, it's not only killing that person, it's also an attack on the organization itself, as well as something of an attack on the people who put that person there, if ideological rather than direct and physical. The same is true (granted, to a lesser extent) of killing, say, a police officer.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:09 pm UTC

Saw this Norwegian game floating around 4chan..
Throw a Shoe At Bush

The blue bar is the angle, the red/green is power, and the KAST SKOEN button is throw.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:44 pm UTC

Guff wrote:After watching this, though, I can truly say this is the first time I've been proud of our President. I would've gotten bonked right in the nose.
I like the look on Bush's face right after the first shoe is thrown. It's kind of a bemused "really?" Of course, that might be a "I ravaged your country for half a decade with war and the best you can do is throw a shoe at me?" look, but still.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby GabrielF » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:07 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Guff wrote:After watching this, though, I can truly say this is the first time I've been proud of our President. I would've gotten bonked right in the nose.
I like the look on Bush's face right after the first shoe is thrown. It's kind of a bemused "really?" Of course, that might be a "I ravaged your country for half a decade with war and the best you can do is throw a shoe at me?" look, but still.


He may be a miserable failure but he does seem to have a sense of humor - witness the awkward dancing at that press conference when he was waiting for McCain to come and receive his presidential blessing/endorsement.

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:08 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:I like the look on Bush's face right after the first shoe is thrown. It's kind of a bemused "really?" Of course, that might be a "I ravaged your country for half a decade with war and the best you can do is throw a shoe at me?" look, but still.


i think its more of a "hey this is just like when Laura finds my whiskey" look. which would explain his reflexes to the situation.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby ^.* » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

The impotant question is did he get back his shoes afterwards? I mean if you have to buy new shoes everytime you want to express you dislike it will get expensive, especially if you wear branded shoes.... Yeah it was a weak joke. Concerning jokes I liked Jesse's "ducking the question." joke.

It`s not what a journalist should do, they need to have access to speeches, and attacking the orator is a good way to lose that.
But somehow I found it damn funny and not just because I don`t really love bush. I would never get the idea to slip out of my shoes and throw them at someone. My throwing list consists off 1)water bombs 2)tomatoes 3)cakes 4) to cause real harm stones or other dangerous objects.
But I congratulate Bush for his quick reaction, I don`t know if I would react fast enough.
And if people say it should have been an gun they are idiots, the damage caused by a gun isn`t that high either and they aren`t aerodynamic. I would have chosen throwing knives.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby RealGrouchy » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Vaniver wrote:[edit]I am amused that IFLP stands for both "I feel like puking" and "Index to Foreign Legal Periodicals."
That's not how I used it, btw.
Then you're communicating badly if others can't reasonably understand what you're saying. I googled the acronym and got the same results.

Vaniver wrote:the mark of a civilized society is that you can insult someone without any repercussions (excluding slander/libel). It's also a mark of a civilized society that you can't assault someone without any repercussions.
Horror of horrors, I actually agree with that (in principle, at least).

I think the big problem with this incident is that Bush can still continue his little fairy-tale dream where he imagines that this guy is just some rogue lunatic, and most of the rest of Iraq still welcomes him and the USA with open arms.

the_bandersnatch wrote:I would have gone with shouting "IRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQ!" in the style of "SPAAARTA!" for added pop-culture comedy kudos. The man would have been a hero of the chans for years to come.
Which are you saying? That
(a) You would assault the President of the United States, or
(b) An Iraqi who is disgusted with the military and cultural invasion by the US into his country would make a reference to US popular culture?

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Dream » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:03 am UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Vaniver wrote:the mark of a civilized society is that you can insult someone without any repercussions (excluding slander/libel). It's also a mark of a civilized society that you can't assault someone without any repercussions.
Horror of horrors, I actually agree with that (in principle, at least).

I think the big problem with this incident is that Bush can still continue his little fairy-tale dream where he imagines that this guy is just some rogue lunatic, and most of the rest of Iraq still welcomes him and the USA with open arms.

I agree. The bemused smile after the first shoe says it all. Shouldn't he be fucking terrified that one of these Arab reporters might at any moment explode and take the whole room with them? But a completely unexpected object flying right at his head from the crowd gets a faint smile. He clearly lives in cloud cookoo land.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Marbas » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:29 am UTC

Austin Powers, the answer to your question is JOURNALISTS.


Spoiler:
"Who throws a shoe? Honestly." -Austin Powers
Last edited by Marbas on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:48 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:51 am UTC

I'm still a bit confused how everyone seems to be making the leap from "Secret Service didn't catch that this guy would throw his shoe (normal piece of clothing)" to "Secret Service wouldn't have caught a gun or bomb." Let's be realistic here, these guys are good. That they let people wearing clothing into the conference is one thing, that they would let someone with a weapon in is another.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:13 am UTC

Marbas wrote:Austin Powers, the answer to your question is JOURNALISTS.


Spoiler:
"Who throws a show? Honestly." -Austin Powers


You messed up the quote with a typo, but...

HOW DID IT TAKE THIS LONG FOR THIS REFERENCE!?
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Herman » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:13 am UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
Marbas wrote:Austin Powers, the answer to your question is JOURNALISTS.


Spoiler:
"Who throws a show? Honestly." -Austin Powers


You messed up the quote with a typo, but...

HOW DID IT TAKE THIS LONG FOR THIS REFERENCE!?


I went on this thread with the express purpose of making that reference. Damnit. :)

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby scrovak » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:18 am UTC

Actually, I believe it was on TMZ or Entertainment Tonight, or one of those sleazy cable celebrity-stalker shows...
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby LeopoldBloom » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:39 am UTC

HOW DID IT TAKE THIS LONG FOR THIS REFERENCE!?


The reference i've been waiting for-
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after Khrushchev furiously banged his shoe on the table at the U.N during Macmillan's speach.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby sje46 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:46 am UTC

cwoodin wrote:I'm still a bit confused how everyone seems to be making the leap from "Secret Service didn't catch that this guy would throw his shoe (normal piece of clothing)" to "Secret Service wouldn't have caught a gun or bomb." Let's be realistic here, these guys are good. That they let people wearing clothing into the conference is one thing, that they would let someone with a weapon in is another.

Those guys are vigilant. There was a speech, maybe 10 years ago? 15? A while ago (my psych teacher told us this story). Clinton, or Bush, or whoever, was having a speech in a building, and a man lived in an apartment building nearby. He didn't know about the speech, and was cleaning his gun. He went over to the window to see what was happening, and was SHOT and killed. He probably lived like 20 stories up. And he wasn't aiming his gun, or anything (or at least I doubt it). Pretty much secret service doesn't take any chances, except with articles of clothing. Imagine if they banned clothing around the president now?
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby william » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:53 am UTC

GabrielF wrote:As for Al-Zeidi - I'd be interested to see if he gets fired (assuming the Iraqis release him). Iraq did not have a free press until the invasion and many countries without journalistic traditions tend to miss one of the key points - that journalists have rights but also special responsibilities. You can't throw a shoe at a guy during a press conference and call yourself a journalist.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got enough gifts from the adoring Arab world that he wouldn't need a job anymore.
Vaniver wrote:The Iraqi govt. is holding the reporter in question for a bizarre crime. I mean, the guy should be tried for assault (I'm using the American legal definition) and given the small sentence that that implies. I don't want to think too much about what the sentence for a "barbaric act" could be.

Reading the article, it looks as if the guy is being tried for "insulting the Iraqi government". >_< I understand that this is in fact a serious assault, but insult should not be a crime.
sje46 wrote:Imagine if they banned clothing around the president now?

Well in that case i'd hope that the reporters were all attractive.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby roc314 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:33 am UTC

william wrote:Well in that case i'd hope that the reporters were all attractive.
It would also lead to an excellent reason to ban O'Reilly from everything. (Try living with the image of naked Bill O'Reilly in your head.)
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Marbas » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:51 am UTC

roc314 wrote:
william wrote:Well in that case i'd hope that the reporters were all attractive.
It would also lead to an excellent reason to ban O'Reilly from everything. (Try living with the image of naked Bill O'Reilly in your head.)



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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Amarantha » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:20 pm UTC

Austin Powers was totally my first comment when I saw this. But then, my entire conversational repertory is pretty much a series of movie quotes :mrgreen:
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:29 pm UTC

william wrote:
sje46 wrote:Imagine if they banned clothing around the president now?
Well in that case i'd hope that the reporters were all attractive.
Don't know about you, but I'd be watching press conferences hoping for a shot of Helen Thomas.

I mean.. what?
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Jebobek » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:36 pm UTC

roc314 wrote:
william wrote:Well in that case i'd hope that the reporters were all attractive.
It would also lead to an excellent reason to ban O'Reilly from everything. (Try living with the image of naked Bill O'Reilly in your head.)
O'Rilly.PNG
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Oh.. Oh God..
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:07 pm UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Vaniver wrote:[edit]I am amused that IFLP stands for both "I feel like puking" and "Index to Foreign Legal Periodicals."
That's not how I used it, btw.
Then you're communicating badly if others can't reasonably understand what you're saying. I googled the acronym and got the same results.
Funnily enough, I'm not actually communicating badly. At least not on this forum.

Dream wrote:I agree. The bemused smile after the first shoe says it all. Shouldn't he be fucking terrified that one of these Arab reporters might at any moment explode and take the whole room with them? But a completely unexpected object flying right at his head from the crowd gets a faint smile. He clearly lives in cloud cookoo land.
Ah yes, he doesn't hit the deck out of a relatively irrational fear that someone who has been through the security check has managed to get a bomb into the press conference and, rather than set said bomb off, decided to throw their shoe at him, which will immediately draw a swarm of security to tackle him, and therefore Bush isn't living in the real world. Actually, after further review of this video, it's clear that he's a paranoid schizophrenic with dissociative disorder and borderline personality disorder. Oh, and he was wearing briefs, not boxers or boxer-briefs.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Jebobek » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:20 pm UTC

My OT thoughts on IFLP
Spoiler:
The issue is mainly that folks have brought IFLP out of FaiD where only a few have seen it, and are now turning it into the new Q.F.T. (which I'm trying to avoid nowadays, still not perfect)

Meanwhile, "I feel like puking" has been already established in the internet community, so anyone that comes onto this fora will first have to

1. Understand that IFLP does not mean what it usually does.
2. Learn what FaiD is, find it, apply.
3. Search FaiD for the true meaning.

Too many steps?
On topic- That smirk really toubles me. It kind of seems like he though that guy was joking around. On the other hand, that smirk kind of comes up automatically on his face rather than a troubled scowl. The smirk is a quirk.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:44 pm UTC

Fair enough. I just find it funny that he could do a Google search but not a forum search.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:53 pm UTC

william wrote:
GabrielF wrote:As for Al-Zeidi - I'd be interested to see if he gets fired (assuming the Iraqis release him). Iraq did not have a free press until the invasion and many countries without journalistic traditions tend to miss one of the key points - that journalists have rights but also special responsibilities. You can't throw a shoe at a guy during a press conference and call yourself a journalist.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got enough gifts from the adoring Arab world that he wouldn't need a job anymore.


NPR said the station this guy worked for keeps showing his picture with triumphant music in the background, calling for him to let off, joining in with his already kind of 'folk hero' status.

Also that he had been "very critical" of the US military presence and non-specifically detained at some point.

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:01 pm UTC

Yeah, apparently the public sentiment in Iraq is pretty heavily split right now between support for this guy and those condemning him.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Bakemaster » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:55 pm UTC

william wrote:
Vaniver wrote:The Iraqi govt. is holding the reporter in question for a bizarre crime. I mean, the guy should be tried for assault (I'm using the American legal definition) and given the small sentence that that implies. I don't want to think too much about what the sentence for a "barbaric act" could be.

Reading the article, it looks as if the guy is being tried for "insulting the Iraqi government". >_< I understand that this is in fact a serious assault, but insult should not be a crime.

"Insult" doesn't appear to be a crime. Insulting the government appears to be. And it's not like we don't have a comparable charge in the U.S.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:12 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Yeah, apparently the public sentiment in Iraq is pretty heavily split right now between support for this guy and those condemning him.
Link
In Saudi Arabia, a newspaper reported that a man had offered $10 million to buy just one of what has almost certainly become the world’s most famous pair of black dress shoes.
A daughter of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the Libyan leader, reportedly awarded the shoe thrower, Muntader al-Zaidi, a 29-year-old journalist, a medal of courage.
In the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, people calling for an immediate American withdrawal removed their footwear and placed the shoes and sandals at the end of long poles, waving them high in the air. And in the southern Iraqi city of Najaf, people threw their shoes at a passing American convoy.

I think Muntader al Zaidi is a pretty cool guy, eh throws shoes at people and doesn't afraid of anything.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:18 pm UTC

it had to be done:

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:22 pm UTC

cwoodin wrote:
22/7 wrote:Yeah, apparently the public sentiment in Iraq is pretty heavily split right now between support for this guy and those condemning him.
Link
In Saudi Arabia, a newspaper reported that a man had offered $10 million to buy just one of what has almost certainly become the world’s most famous pair of black dress shoes.
A daughter of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the Libyan leader, reportedly awarded the shoe thrower, Muntader al-Zaidi, a 29-year-old journalist, a medal of courage.
In the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, people calling for an immediate American withdrawal removed their footwear and placed the shoes and sandals at the end of long poles, waving them high in the air. And in the southern Iraqi city of Najaf, people threw their shoes at a passing American convoy.
A number of Iraqis said they were dismayed by what Mr. Zaidi had done. Ahmad Abu Risha, the head of the Awakening Council in Anbar Province, a group of tribal leaders that started a wave of popular opposition to fighters linked to Al Qaeda, condemned the move.

“The American president is the guest of all Iraqis,” he said. “The Iraqi government has to choose good journalists to attend such conferences.”


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william wrote:
Vaniver wrote:The Iraqi govt. is holding the reporter in question for a bizarre crime. I mean, the guy should be tried for assault (I'm using the American legal definition) and given the small sentence that that implies. I don't want to think too much about what the sentence for a "barbaric act" could be.

Reading the article, it looks as if the guy is being tried for "insulting the Iraqi government". >_< I understand that this is in fact a serious assault, but insult should not be a crime.
Hmm... from the article cwoodin linked
Mr. Zaidi, who has not been formally charged, faces up to seven years in prison for committing an act of aggression against a visiting head of state.
That's what I assumed he'd be charged with all along (or whatever law covers assaulting a visiting head of state).
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Bakemaster » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:08 pm UTC

Why assume, when you could just read the article Vaniver linked, where it explicity says:
Reuters wrote:He would be sent for trial on charges of insulting the Iraqi state, said the prime minister's media adviser, Yasin Majeed.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

Sorry 22/7, I wasn't trying to say everyone was pleased with it, those quotes were actually a pretty bad representation, I just grabbed the first few from the article.
He said he never tells a lie!
He was lying about that.

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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby Intercept » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:34 pm UTC

OT on IFLP
Spoiler:
I think it was funny that RG was the one complaining about it. You're a moderator, you should be aware of the influence that FaiD has on the rest of the forums.
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Re: Bush attacked with shoes

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:37 pm UTC

Intercept wrote:OT on IFLP
Spoiler:
I think it was funny that Intercept was surprised RG was complaining about anything. He's grouchy, you should be aware of that if you visit the rest of the forums.

fix'd?

Everybody back on topic, with the Bush-hating and the glavin.
He said he never tells a lie!
He was lying about that.


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