Watchmen - Spoilers like a Psychic Undersea Gargant!

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Jesse » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

We also disagree on whether all such movies have been terrible. I still find V For Vendetta a worthwhile adaptation.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Yuri2356 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:13 pm UTC

kip wrote:
Jack Saladin wrote:I don't understand what people mean when they say "the comic can't be translated to film". Like what can't? The plot? The characters? You think the medium of films simply can't handle dudes in capes, or what? What is it about Watchmen that's so untranslatable - sure, the colour schemes, panel layout, but like, no fucking shit you can't put that into a film. They're not making Watchmen The Comic: The Film. You already have the comic. Now they're making a film with the same story. Where's the insurmountable wall here?


One of Watchmen's strengths is it's density. There's clues, references, subtle cues, themes, etc, on nearly every page of the comic. The dialogue is thick. Some images only work if you can take a long moment and look at them, absorb them, and be enlightened to the plot or see an insight into a character. It works as a comic because you can take your time and you can move back a few pages, reread something, and move on. It works because you can reread whole issues and see what was going on only after a later revelation has been laid on you. And when you get tired, when you've taken in enough, you can bookmark your spot and put the comic down.

You can't do that with a movie. Watchmen was meant to be a shinning example of what you can do with a comic but cannot do with a book or movie. That's why we feel it wont translate well.

So you're saying is - you'd want to see Watchmen on DVD.

The story is entirely functional and entertaining when simply read once from start to finish, with no exceptional effort placed into dissecting the content. That's what the movie would be. You won't catch everything in one run, but that doesn't really hurt the experience.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Malice » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:52 am UTC

Jesse wrote:We also disagree on whether all such movies have been terrible. I still find V For Vendetta a worthwhile adaptation.


From Hell isn't bad, either.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Macbi » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:09 am UTC

I seem to be unique in having liked the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
    Indigo is a lie.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby kip » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

From Hell.. isn't good. It isn't bad, but it isn't good. There's some good acting, and then there's some bad acting. I didn't particularly enjoy the love story. But it's probably the best adaptation of Moore's work, although it strikes me as only really sharing the title, a few character names, and the vaguest similarity of plot.

V from Vendetta missed the point of the book imo. There seemed to be a very hokey love story. I can't forgive the movie for not being as good as the book. I know a lot of people who liked it, but not many who've read the book, and none that feel it's the same story. Your mileage may vary.

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was terrible. :shock: It made Sean Connery QUIT acting! I mean, really?

It should be pointed out that I'm one of those really annoying guys that hates movies that arn't like the book.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Jesse » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

Then you'll hate Watchmen. What's the point of making a movie exactly like the book? You may as well just read the book again, which is cheaper because you already own it.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby kip » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

I usually don't see movies that are taken from a book directly, you're right. I tend not to enjoy them, except the rare moments when the movie is superior to the book (Fight Club, Shawshank Redemption). That's not to say I don't like movies based on characters or ideas from books/comics/etc.. I've enjoyed both Batman movies, Ironman, so forth.

And yeah, I'll probably hate Watchmen, while a good number of people will like it. That's life. I'm not trying to tell OTHER people not to like the movie. I'm just voicing my own personal opinion.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:45 pm UTC

Eleni wrote:Even Alan Moore can't protest that, can he?
Sure he can. Alan Moore doesn't own the copyright to Watchmen. DC does. Granted, the copyright will revert to Moore when Watchmen goes out of print....

...but guess what DC comic has never been out of print? Go on.. guess!
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby OmegaLord » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:55 pm UTC

I have just read it. I bought it yesterday, and so will need to re-read it for the full effect, but the Comedian looks like a scary bondage-themed masked wrestler in the book. Just saying.
So what do you guys know about *glances down at sheet* the kingdoms of orgasms
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Klapaucius » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:05 pm UTC

OmegaLord wrote:I have just read it. I bought it yesterday, and so will need to re-read it for the full effect, but the Comedian looks like a scary bondage-themed masked wrestler in the book. Just saying.


What does that make Nite Owl?
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Joeldi » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:57 am UTC

Would Fox really be able to distribute this, under any circumstances? Surely the film is Warner Brothers' property, and a court decision would only prevent them from distributing it?
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby OmegaLord » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

Klapaucius wrote:
OmegaLord wrote:I have just read it. I bought it yesterday, and so will need to re-read it for the full effect, but the Comedian looks like a scary bondage-themed masked wrestler in the book. Just saying.


What does that make Nite Owl?


Not... bondage themed...? He looks a little like a wrestler, as does Hooded Justice, who is referred to as looking like a wrestler. Nite Owl is like a nerd person. Dr. Manhattan is just creepy.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:48 pm UTC

I went to the movies yesterday, and there were WATCHMEN posters up, which was exciting for me.

They are kind of cheesy and over the top, but I think it would be kind of awesome if they sell it like just your typical comic book movie, but that would probably not be good for buisness.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Macbi » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:05 am UTC

Look. It's quite a good clip.
    Indigo is a lie.
    Which idiot decided that websites can't go within 4cm of the edge of the screen?
    There should be a null word, for the question "Is anybody there?" and to see if microphones are on.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby IuliC » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:46 am UTC

Macbi wrote:Look. It's quite a good clip.


Sweet, thanks. I hadn't seen that one yet.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby cephalopod9 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am UTC

3:38, Rorschach pulling his mask on, I had to watch it 3 times just now. eee,

I think I'm starting to like movie Veidt, he does look like he ages
Spoiler:
And he look insane!! :mrgreen: ...I think they are purposefully not showing maskless Rorschach. aawweesoomme
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Klapaucius » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:47 pm UTC

OmegaLord wrote:
Klapaucius wrote:
OmegaLord wrote:I have just read it. I bought it yesterday, and so will need to re-read it for the full effect, but the Comedian looks like a scary bondage-themed masked wrestler in the book. Just saying.


What does that make Nite Owl?


Not... bondage themed...? He looks a little like a wrestler, as does Hooded Justice, who is referred to as looking like a wrestler. Nite Owl is like a nerd person. Dr. Manhattan is just creepy.
I meant that Nite Owl and the Comedian were a team during the 70's--a "Brave and the Bold" sort of situation. I was trying to extrapolate a stronger double entendre from a shaky one, just never mind.

Hooded Justice looks like a Klansman--even more so, he looks like an anti-Klansman a la Steel from The New Frontier. Especially with the broken noose.

And what exactly about Naked Glowing Science Jesus creeps you out?
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby a386 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:31 am UTC

just finished reading today, itching for some discussion, found some on the internet! talking like Rorschach by accident? must investigate further.

Spoiler:
i watched that trailer and i really like it although it made me nervous when the guy said that adrian veldt "claims to be the smartest man in the world." he never did? also the way he was being all sinister to the president, i like everyone basically really don't want to see veldt styled as a villain, even an insane villain with "what he thinks are good intentions."


they used a muse song which was neat.

rorschach's voice was exactly how i imagined it and the whole time i was like "is rorschach going to talk is rorschach going to talk" and then he did and it was spot on how i imagined it and i was like "yess."

at one point way long ago in this thread somebody mentioned a connection between the ending of watchmen and the ending of the incredibles, and
Spoiler:
the robot thing at the end of the incredibles looks just like veldt's alien thing! all one big thing in the middle and then the tentacles. PLUS i bet they got the idea for the cape being the thing that killed the baddy from the incredibles (i can not remember his name) from how Dollar Bill died! that might be stretching it but it is also plausible.


EDIT: i spoiler'd another thing just to be safe
Last edited by a386 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:35 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Thousand » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:25 am UTC

a386 wrote:
Spoiler:
the robot thing at the end of the incredibles looks just like veldt's alien thing! all one big thing in the middle and then the tentacles. PLUS i bet they got the idea for the cape being the thing that killed the baddy from the incredibles (i can not remember his name) from how Dollar Bill died! that might be stretching it but it is also plausible.


Both observations are correct, considering The Incredibles were influenced to a degree by Watchmen (and yes the latter was lifted from it). It's a shame I couldn't pick up on those things independently as I'd already read the TVTropes entry for the Incredibles and whatnot so I was aware of it when I read the book.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby a386 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:38 am UTC

oh man and there was an island, and there were ol' out of work superheroes who were forced into retirement, and there was all the social "do people like masked heroes or not" stuff. the incredibles: basically watchmen? well, watchmen for those kiddies among us who do not want to contemplate the end of days.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Mo0man » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:41 pm UTC

I remember no such island in Watchmen
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Yuri2356 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:16 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:I remember no such island in Watchmen

Really?
Spoiler:
It's where they gathered a bunch of people to built the squid, then killed them all by 'sploding the boat they left on.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Mo0man » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:58 am UTC

Hrm... come to think of it, you're right.
Spoiler:
Island where they built the robot = Island where they designed it

It's just to me, island didn't mean anything. It might as well have been a rocket on the moon, or in that fortess of solitude thingy on antarctica
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Macbi » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:48 am UTC

Watchmen is also very similar to Heros,
Spoiler:
An organization tries to set off a nuke (or squid) in a big city for the greater good. The words "kill half of New York" are used.

BTW anyone know what the music is that kicks in at around 1:30 of the most recent clip?
    Indigo is a lie.
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    There should be a null word, for the question "Is anybody there?" and to see if microphones are on.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Ubik » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:29 pm UTC

Macbi wrote:BTW anyone know what the music is that kicks in at around 1:30 of the most recent clip?

It is Angel by Massive Attack (music video here, it's from album named Mezzanine).

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:21 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Eleni wrote:Even Alan Moore can't protest that, can he?
Sure he can. Alan Moore doesn't own the copyright to Watchmen. DC does. Granted, the copyright will revert to Moore when Watchmen goes out of print....

...but guess what DC comic has never been out of print? Go on.. guess!

It's not quite the dick move you're making it sound like, though. Pretty much every comic shop in the country was selling 1-2 copies per month even before the movie was even announced. It's an exceptionally consistent seller, and DC would be retarded to let it go out of print.

Not that DC is above retarded decisions or anything. Quite the opposite, really.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:56 pm UTC

Sure, but at the time it was written, comics weren't really collected and republished the same way that they are today - it was far more of a single-issue collect'em all from the vendors and other readers business. It was a reasonable expectation on both Alan and Dave's part that with a couple of years, they'd have the rights to the characters.

And, of course, it means no one has to send a cut of the profits Alan and Dave's way.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:11 pm UTC

Yeah, but at the same time, neither Moore nor Gibbons are stupid people and were well aware of the comics industry's by then long-established history of fucking over its workers whenever the chance presented itself.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Ubik » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:39 pm UTC

Japanese trailer for the movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WNETpX2Jd0

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Jack Saladin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:55 pm UTC

Yeah, that showed a lot more than any other trailers I've seen have. Lookin' good.

I wonder why they're not including more of the setting/politics stuff in the Western promotional push?

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Poffin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:38 pm UTC

No matter how bad the plot/acting/whatever is, it'll be absolutely gorgeous. At least there's that.

Also it helps that you don't expect the movie to be the comic at all. Expect it to be, well, a movie.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Allium Cepa » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:54 pm UTC

Poffin wrote:No matter how bad the plot/acting/whatever is, it'll be absolutely gorgeous. At least there's that.

Also it helps that you don't expect the movie to be the comic at all. Expect it to be, well, a movie.


Well, obviously the plot isn't going to be bad, we all know how it goes and how good it is. And all of the actors look like they fit their parts well, I am worried most about the direction. It's been mentioned before, but this isn't really an action movie, and if the trailers are any indication, the director is trying to make it one.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Eleni » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:01 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Eleni wrote:Even Alan Moore can't protest that, can he?
Sure he can. Alan Moore doesn't own the copyright to Watchmen. DC does. Granted, the copyright will revert to Moore when Watchmen goes out of print....

...but guess what DC comic has never been out of print? Go on.. guess!
I wasn't even thinking in terms of Alan Moore earning money. I just thought that as someone proud of his work and his medium, Alan Moore would be happy that there were more people appreciating his book and being introduced to the joys of graphic novels. But maybe I'm just super idealistic and naive.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Dream » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:04 am UTC

Allium Cepa wrote:
Poffin wrote:No matter how bad the plot/acting/whatever is, it'll be absolutely gorgeous. At least there's that.

Also it helps that you don't expect the movie to be the comic at all. Expect it to be, well, a movie.


Well, obviously the plot isn't going to be bad, we all know how it goes and how good it is. And all of the actors look like they fit their parts well, I am worried most about the direction. It's been mentioned before, but this isn't really an action movie, and if the trailers are any indication, the director is trying to make it one.

Never trust a trailer for that kind of thing. It's not like the trailer will have a five minute scene of Rorschach stonewalling the psychiatrists, but it might well be in the movie.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Eleni » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:31 am UTC

Dream wrote:
Allium Cepa wrote:
Poffin wrote:No matter how bad the plot/acting/whatever is, it'll be absolutely gorgeous. At least there's that.

Also it helps that you don't expect the movie to be the comic at all. Expect it to be, well, a movie.
Well, obviously the plot isn't going to be bad, we all know how it goes and how good it is. And all of the actors look like they fit their parts well, I am worried most about the direction. It's been mentioned before, but this isn't really an action movie, and if the trailers are any indication, the director is trying to make it one.
Never trust a trailer for that kind of thing. It's not like the trailer will have a five minute scene of Rorschach stonewalling the psychiatrists, but it might well be in the movie.
Yeah, all it necessarily means is that the studio is trying to market it as an action movie, which many studios try to do with their movies to trick 17-year-old boys into seeing them. They still may have amped up the action in the film because, well, it does tend attract those teenage boys (and those who are teenage boys at heart), but it might not be too bad.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Jack Saladin » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:54 am UTC

We've only seen as much action in the film as was in the comic. It's not like we've seen any indication of brand new action sequences made up specifically for that purpose or anything. It's just they pieced together the trailers from the most action-packed parts of the film - like every single trailer in film history has done.

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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Phen » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:48 pm UTC

All these trailers are making me annoyed, since I know it'll be forever before it comes to Europe, anyhow. The Spirit-posters has been plastered all over the city, but no watchmen. However, I did get the comic for christmas, so it's not all bad.
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby axilog14 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:22 pm UTC

Holy...

Just saw the Japanese trailer (without sound), and I had a near-geekgasm over the stuff in it that wasn't in the other trailers I've seen! Only in the Japanese trailer have I seen scenes from the movie where:

Spoiler:
-Hollis Mason gets killed
-Rorschach uses his grappling hook gun against the police (in Moloch's apartment)
-the newstand vendor shields the kid from the New York explosion (or at least I think that's what it is)
-not to mention those awesome scenes showing the President being flanked by the Doomsday clock


Although is it just me, or did the trailer make it look like Rorschach was the one who
Spoiler:
typed the password "Rameses" into Ozymandias's computer, rather than it being Nite Owl?
A possible trailer-editing quibble, sure, but for me that was a majorly revelatory scene for the book, and thus one I hoped they would've done faithfully to the letter at least IMO.

I'm pretty much ready to accept that Watchmen: The Movie would NEVER truly measure up to Watchmen: The Book. Creative liberties (like that new ending) are just as much a part of real life (albeit an unfair one) as that Disney version of Hunchback of Notre Dame, only
Spoiler:
without the majorly-depressing-albeit-unmistakably-Victor-Hugoish downer ending
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby cephalopod9 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:11 am UTC

eee, only 48 days 'till the premeire.
Any of you guys making plans to dress up and stand in line 'till midnight or whatever?

ooh! soundtrack info

...I am kind of LOVING the hokey, misleading, super-hero cliche style they're putting into their add campaigns.(I am a fan of punishing those who didn't read the book) Of course, the preveiws so far have been on the teaser-ish side, so they might get into the serious drama stuff later on...
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Re: I am sad. (Watchmen.)

Postby Ubik » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:42 am UTC



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