xkcd

by **d33p** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:11 pm UTC

F. Dick makes the offset serrated that I want! Glad to hear another endorsement of their quality.

by **asad137** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:46 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Very good to know about the Global handles—I am still interested to try one out at a store where they'll demo the knives for you (if possible), but I do have very large hands so that might be a concern.

If you have a Williams-Sonoma or Sur La Table nearby, they will let you try the knives out on a cutting board, at least. Maybe they won't actually let you cut anything, but you get the basic feel for the motion, curve of the blade, and the handle.

It strikes me that maybe the Global handle just isn't meant to be held like a traditional knife handle -- the handle design makes sense if it's to be gripped with just the fingertips.

Asad

by **Jinx** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:12 am UTC

A forum i can really get into... hmm...

speaking as a chef, i'm terribly, terribly fond of Shun knives. They can be on the pricey side, but are absolutely worth it. Shaving-sharp straight out of the box, and holds an edge beautifully. I bought my 8" chef's knife a year ago, didn't have to get it sharpened until 8 months after purchase, and it still holds a lovely edge.

I kid you not when i say it is PERFECTLY balanced- i can place that baby flat on my finger where the blade meets the handle, and it will not move. This makes it feel much lighter than comparable blade-heavy German knives (Henckel, Wusthof, etc).

A note on knives, electric or handheld sharpeners are crap. They will just eat away at your knife; if you have a cheap one, fine, but i wouldn't essentially just scrape away the edge on my good knives. Professional sharpening is absolutely where it's at for good knives; an old pro will take a good knife and make it great, and take a shit knife and make you proud. Whetstones are the only real alternative, but there isn't anyone i trust my blades to, nor do i truly trust my own skill with one.

Edit: Oh yeah, on serrated knives! I bought a $20 off-set at a restaurant supply store... and never regretted it since. The design is perfect for not catching your knuckles on the cutting board before the blade cuts through- the downfall of other high-class knives being they all tend to be designed in the straight-blade style. I say there's nothing wrong with an inexpensive knife sitting next to a high-price one, as long as it does the job it's supposed to do.

by **Rinsaikeru** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:04 pm UTC

What does everyone use as their standard kitchen knife?

I've totally switched over to santoku knives for this purpose. I find them much more comfortable to hold and chop with---and I find I don't get repetitive motion strain with them either.

by **levicc00123** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 pm UTC

I'd have to say my crockpot is my favorite cooking tool as I cook 99.999% of all meals in it.

by **asad137** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:42 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:What does everyone use as their standard kitchen knife?

8" chef's knife. I use it for darn near everything. The few santokus I've tried I haven't liked as the blades typically don't have as much curvature as a chef's knife and so I find it less controllable for knife motions based on rocking the blade on the board.

Asad

by **Jinx** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:39 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:What does everyone use as their standard kitchen knife?

I've totally switched over to santoku knives for this purpose. I find them much more comfortable to hold and chop with---and I find I don't get repetitive motion strain with them either.

If i had to choose just one knife to use, i'd have to go with with my 8" chef's knife. My santoku is nice and all (esp for veggie prep), but i get more overall versatility from my chef's knife. The design of a santoku doesn't allow for the same fine-detail work i can get out of the narrower tip in my chef's knife, not to mention the extra inch in length makes slicing certain items easier (for better or worse, santoku knives tend to run shorter than their chef knife counterparts).

by **Bakemaster** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:57 pm UTC

Make mine another vote for 8" chef's knife. Although, I tend to use my 3" paring knife a lot alongside it. I am not really comfortable using the tip of the chef's knife for most paring uses.

by **d33p** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:03 pm UTC

I use my 8" santoku most, because it's lighter and more maneuverable than my chef's, and I don't do a lot of heavy hack-n-slashing. And I chop/slice/chiffonade/etc in more of an Asian style, straight up-and-down instead of rocking.

Bake, I used to have similar issues, using the tip of the knife for paring. While I understand it's "technique", I found it a lot easier, at least for me, to use the bottom corner of the blade for peeling/paring. Being closer to the handle, it may be less tricky to aim correctly.

by **Bakemaster** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

Part of it is that, while I am comfortable with my own level of skill using these knives, I feel the length and weight of the blade is a potential hazard when used for some things for which a paring knife is ideal. If I'm concentrating on the lower edge of the knife, I'm not concentrating on the other 6" or so of fairly sharp metal; and when the paring knife is in every way more suited for the task, I see no reason not to use it. No matter how good and precise you are with a chef's knife, the fact of its length and weight makes it harder to control than a paring knife, end of story. Not a big risk involved for someone with skill, but for me it makes me nervous and less comfortable, and that reaction in itself probably does more to make me less safe with the knife than the actual thing I'm nervous about.

by **d33p** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:43 pm UTC

That makes sense. For me, I hate the added effort of reaching for another knife, having one more thing to clean, etc. I don't know if you've cooked professionally, but on the line every second counts, so it's certainly useful to learn how to use one knife for all its possible purposes.

by **Bakemaster** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:27 pm UTC

Yeah, I haven't cooked on a line, and I think it has a lot to do with why I still love cooking so much. 'Cause I have worked in the front, and I've seen what they have to go through. I remember a summer when a guy at one station brought a wall thermometer because his station was right by the ovens, and our ventilation/AC was quasi-broken, and it hit 119 F... I think that was when I decided never to work as a cook.

by **d33p** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:07 am UTC

Ventilation? AC? What are these bizarre front-of-house terms you are using?
Yeah, breaking 100*F is pretty common. I've told people that one of the quickest ways to lose weight is, counterintuitively, to cook for a living. You don't have time to eat and the heat is close to unbearable. I've lost 10 lbs since working the line.
I have a feeling that I've severely derailed the thread by now.
*checks the topic title*
Right. Cookware.
Umm... I have nothing new to say on this front since I still can't afford the Dutch oven I am lusting after.
That is all.

by **asad137** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:39 pm UTC

d33p wrote: I found it a lot easier, at least for me, to use the bottom corner of the blade for peeling/paring. Being closer to the handle, it may be less tricky to aim correctly.

Unfortunately, you can't actually do this on a lot of German chef's knives (such as the the more traditional Wusthof and Henckels) because the blade bolster extends all the way down to the edge of the blade:

Compared to when I bought my knife 3 years ago, though, both of the big brands now have knives that don't share this "feature".

Asad

by **d33p** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:50 pm UTC

I found it! I found the stockpot I want!
So lovely...
A Le Creuset for under $50, 8-quart, ovenproof to 400*F... WANT.

by **semicharmed** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:40 am UTC

Oh, I need a stockpot so bad. So bad.
That last time I made sauce, I ended up with three pots on the stove, and had to keep ladeling sauce between the pots so the flavors would stay even, as I was making two trays of ziti. It, however, like much else on my "things I need in my kitchen" list is going to have to wait until I'll a) out of school/not broke and b) not living with people who can kill cookware like nobody's business.

by **Jinx** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:27 am UTC

d33p wrote:I found it! I found the stockpot I want!
So lovely...
A Le Creuset for under $50, 8-quart, ovenproof to 400*F... WANT.

niiiice. Though note, it only talks about the knob having the ovenproof temp.. i'm willing to bet you could toss that badboy in a hot-as-heck oven with a nice tinfoil lid and still be just fine...

although granted, i can't think of any scenarios in which you would want to braise something at THAT high of heat...

And Semi- i know it's been said before, but restaurant supply stores are totally your friend. Good, solid hardwares there, for relatively inexpensive prices. It's the best-kept secret among good cooks. Heh, plus, being restaurant-grade, it's often better built than the prettier, expensive stuff you may find at more well-known kitchenware stores.

by **cypherspace** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:16 pm UTC

I was putting away all the kitchen stuff after washing it the other day, and found that my favourite knife has had the point bent. I was genuinely upset. It's the only knife I trust.

by **22/7** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:23 pm UTC

d33p wrote:I still can't afford the Dutch oven I am lusting after.

If all you're looking for is a Dutch oven...

Rinsaikeru wrote:What does everyone use as their standard kitchen knife?

Santoku. Though I don't have an 8" chef's knife, so I'm not sure it's fair to vote yet.

by **semicharmed** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:24 am UTC

Jinx wrote:And Semi- i know it's been said before, but restaurant supply stores are totally your friend. Good, solid hardwares there, for relatively inexpensive prices. It's the best-kept secret among good cooks. Heh, plus, being restaurant-grade, it's often better built than the prettier, expensive stuff you may find at more well-known kitchenware stores.

Yeah, it's definitely on the list of places to check out once I'm out of the dorms and without roommates who ruin cookware. As it is, space is also at a premium, we have a kitchen but I can stand in the middle of it and touch both walls... and the cabinet space is at a premium.
Speaking of cookware, we were in Lowes and I really want a gas stove. I understand why they give us electric in the dorms, I really do, but gas is so much nicer.

by **itsausername** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:49 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:This Christmas I got a Joyce Chen carbon-steel wok, and have just finished seasoning it and cooking its first meal—good old egg fried rice. I love it! Was kind of a pain to season, but fantastic to cook with once I had finished, and the rice was leftovers from last week so the dish came out very well. I love cooking with bamboo utensils, too—for most things they are so much better than metal.

I could never, ever, ever live without my 14" carbon-steel darling. It keeps me alive! Also, I still have my training set of knives *blushes* I mostly use my 10" Vitorinox Chef's knife, but my goodness does it need a professional sharpening :< Also, a cute lil' paring knife that is nice and lightweight with a fairly flexible blade (henckel, henkel... hen.... yes)
Also, if anyone is looking for a good set of pots/pans I have a langostina set I got from Costco relatively cheaply. My mom hooked me up there so I can't give you a price :/. They're copper in aluminum in stainless steel w/stainless handles. I would highly recommend them! They are still easy to clean after 3 nights of studying when you look up after finishing a pot of stew and say "oh crap" because you left it on the counter -- as easy to clean as 3-day-old-crusty-study-food can possibly be anyway >.> (FYI I passed the mid-term, so it wasn't in vain)

-.-;; I sure do say also a lot.

by **Mathmagic** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:48 am UTC

I just bought my first cast-iron wok! Eighteen bucks at a restaurant supply store! I've started seasoning it, but for some reason the handles have a hard plastic cover on them so I can't exactly stick it in the oven to heat up. I've never seasoned a wok from the start before - does anybody know how long it takes for a wok to be seasoned enough for a first meal? I've heated it and worked in the oil two consecutive times, and it's getting a bit of a nice black sheen on the bottom, but doesn't look anywhere near being ready to use.

by **Bakemaster** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:50 am UTC

Are you tilting it to both coat and heat the sides as well? I don't think there's any hard rule on how seasoned is seasoned enough, but you only have to do it once in a blue moon so I'd give it four or five coats, myself, just to be safe. I hate missing a spot and then getting food stuck on and having to scrape and re-season part or all of the pan.

by **Mathmagic** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:04 pm UTC

I'm not titling the wok to heat the sides, but I am coating the sides in the oil and working it in with a paper towel. I tested the heat of the pan before putting the oil in by putting some droplets of water in first, and they jumped around when they hit the sides of the pan, and flew around the bottom of the pan. I interpreted that as the wok being hot enough everywhere to put a coat on.

by **Bakemaster** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:40 pm UTC

I tend to think that if you're seeing a change in the appearance of the bottom of the pan, but not the sides, then the sides need a little more attention.

by **Mathmagic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:33 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:I tend to think that if you're seeing a change in the appearance of the bottom of the pan, but not the sides, then the sides need a little more attention.

So I did another two coats, and this time pretty much focused on the sides. It definitely came out looking better, except it created a lot of smoke when I was heating it. I think I may have put a bit too much oil in the pan, so I'll try to be a little less free-flowing with the oil next time.

by **Bakemaster** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Yeah, it'll definitely smoke when you're doing it right, because you're basically burning a layer of oil onto the surface of the pan. I wouldn't worry about it, just kill the smoke detector and clean the stove and yourself up after because oil smoke is greasy and makes you smell like a french fry.

by **crowey** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:23 am UTC

I use a 10" sabatier chef's knife for just about everything. I keep it razor sharp and have given myself a couple of nasty cuts when rushing my washing up :oops:

I like sillicone cake "tins", I bake a lot of cakes and it saves cutting circles of parchment...

by **Bakemaster** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:25 am UTC

You know, I have one silicone tube pan that I bought because I needed a tube pan and thought I'd try it out. But I really am not that impressed. I have absolutely no need to go from oven to freezer in any short span of time, and the silicone just isn't rigid enough for my comfort once the cake's done. Especially for more light or delicate cakes, that might deform if I'm not super careful with the "pan" while it's cooling.

by **Rinsaikeru** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:58 am UTC

I've used the Global 8" Chef's Knife and found it to be way too unwieldy for me--but I usually prefer Santoku as my general purpose knife.

I like the balance and lightness of them and prefer the cutting motion. I have used the Global Santoku (pretty sure it was the 5.25") and I quite liked it. I am not bothered by the dimpled surface, it keeps me aware of my grip. It might just be that I've never had a Chef's Knife small enough for me?

by **kaitou** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:43 pm UTC

Among my favorite tools in my kitchen:
- Zojirushi rice maker
- Cast iron skillet (it never gets put away - it always sits on the stove)
- Kitchen-Aid KSM5 mixer (the one with the rack-and-pinion bowl lifter, not the hinged one)
- 10 qt. stock pot (thin wall with a glass lid - very useful for home-brew)
- wok

The knife I use the most is a Henckel 7" santoku. I also have an old set of Old Chicago knives, but the chef's knife it too thick.

I also have a set of Masamoto knives, one sashimi slicer (yanagi-ba), one vegetable (usaba-bouchou) and one carver (deba-bouchou). These are all high-carbon steel with single-sided edges (i.e. the back side is flat). These are right-handed knives, due to the edge and the handles (they have a ridge that lines up with the base of your fingers). Very nice knives but you have to learn how to use them; if you're not used to them, slices turn into wedges.

Slightly OT: I got my sister the Henckel santoku as a Christmas present one year. Her boss had shipped her a spiral-cut ham, which she decided she was going to use for ham sandwiches Christmas night when her family was going to open presents. I found an appropriate box to put the knife in and wrapped it. When I arrived at her house on Christmas afternoon, I told her to open this present as it would be helpful with the ham. Upon unwrapping the present, she found a box for an electric hedge trimmer.

by **Bakemaster** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Haha! That's golden. Reminds me of the time my mom packaged a big stuffed bear for my sister in a box for a Dirtdevil hand vacuum, and when my sister (~7 years old, I think?) unwrapped it she looked up with this incredible, profoundly sorrowful face and mournfully exclaimed, "You got me a Dirtdevil?" before breaking into tears. The bear ended up being named Susan Grey Dirtdevil. (It was a grey bear.)

by **cerbie** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:16 pm UTC

Lodge 12" skillet. Great for eggs, yakisoba, and beating ruffians, animals, and aliens senseless*. Don't tell anybody, but when I'm feeling lazy, I can saute in it, as well.
2(.5?) quart stainless steel skillet w/ lid. An old Reverware (Made in USA) with a thick diffuser bottom. Good for 90% of what a saute pan is good for (the 10% being flipping things, or stirring with the pot handle), and great for rice dishes. It has never required anything harsher than a scouring pad with baking soda to clean, too.
Krona 8-cup multipot. Good for rice, tea water, small soups, and gravies. The lid design is so-so, though, requiring rust spot cleaning every few months.
Messermeister spear-point paring knife (102/Y). My favorite knife; balanced and curved so perfectly that it's like having a natural claw, not holding a tool. The blade even cuts my steel (so, after one more knife, a nice steel and sharpener will be in my queue of desired kitchen gadgets). Unbelievable for $5.

Rinsaikeru wrote:What does everyone use as their standard kitchen knife?

Technique 6" chef's knife. It has taken about two years to finally start feeling dull on skinned vegetables, and still effortlessly handles meat, but I'd highly not recommend it. It relies on silicone-type inserts for grip, which are degrading, the handle helps cause wrist strain by not being beveled much at the rear, and it has always been too thick for hard vegetables, like fresh carrots (when new, it would glide easily about 3/4", then snap them, even without adding downward pressure--it just gets too thick by the end of the dimples). On the plus side, I plan to learn to sharpen whatever replaces it, to keep for years and years and years. I'm leaning towards Mundial, due to price.

I've totally switched over to santoku knives for this purpose. I find them much more comfortable to hold and chop with---and I find I don't get repetitive motion strain with them either.

I've been considering the Victorinox santuko, for just this reason (also that I like the feel of their other knives, and they're not expensive, to boot). I guess I'll have to bite, soon.

2009-03-23: I've now many four meals with the Forschner, and love it (relative to other knives I've owned--the balance sucks, and handle is too big, IMO). The acute edge angle gets rolled easily by my cutting board--enough that I can see the direction it rolled without my glasses or a magnifying glass. So, I'll both re-profile it, and move to a proper cutting board (plain old wood), soon. I want to try a Chinese cleaver before I decide on my One Knife To Rule Them All, but I could see something like a Kanetsugu santoku being it.

*Earthbound, in case it was too much of a rim-shot

by **netcrusher88** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:59 am UTC

Most of my cookware comes from Costco: a Calphalon-style nonstick set of pans from Kitchenaid that ran me about $200, and a set of knives from Henckel International that cost me about the same. I also have a big lidded cast iron... thing (not really a dutch oven), and a couple of cast iron frying pans I picked up at a garage sale half-rusted for a total of $5, then scrubbed out and reseasoned them.

I originally had a set of old stamped knives given to me, but they were frankly crap and dull beyond being worth getting a professional sharpening. Never buy stamped knives, splurge a bit and get forged. The difference in durability and usability is remarkable. Two ways to tell: forged knives are usually marked forged, and the steel usually widens just in front of the handle before going back into a full tang. Stamped knives are a uniform thickness and usually do not follow the contour of the handle as closely.

One thing that can't be overlooked is the cutting board. I started out with one made of pine or oak, quickly threw it out and replaced it with bamboo. It's pretty, but eventually I plan to replace it with a nice heavy-duty maple one. I have a Microban-coated plastic one for chicken and whatnot too.

One thing to remember about cutting boards: glass and marble cutting boards aren't. They will destroy your knife edge, but they are pretty for serving or as a way to cover a section of counter you use a lot, because they're easy to clean.

by **Mmmm, Pi** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:26 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:One thing to remember about cutting boards: glass and marble cutting boards aren't. They will destroy your knife edge, but they are pretty for serving or as a way to cover a section of counter you use a lot, because they're easy to clean.

They aren't supposed to be cutting boards, you're supposed to make pastry and other stuff that prefers to be cold on them.

by **asad137** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:19 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote: Never buy stamped knives, splurge a bit and get forged. The difference in durability and usability is remarkable.

Some well-regarded knives are stamped -- for example, the Globals mentioned earlier. What matters more than construction method is material and edge sharpness.

Two ways to tell: forged knives are usually marked forged, and the steel usually widens just in front of the handle before going back into a full tang.

This is not a reliable method -- some modern stamped knives have bolsters welded on.

Asad

by **Bakemaster** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:52 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:One thing to remember about cutting boards: glass and marble cutting boards aren't. They will destroy your knife edge, but they are pretty for serving or as a way to cover a section of counter you use a lot, because they're easy to clean.

Not only are they not very good for your knives, they suck to cut on because they are so slick. Even the textured glass ones suck. It's especially dangerous for anyone with more ambition than skill in using kitchen knives.

by **d33p** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:09 pm UTC

asad137 wrote:
netcrusher88 wrote: Never buy stamped knives, splurge a bit and get forged. The difference in durability and usability is remarkable.
Some well-regarded knives are stamped -- for example, the Globals mentioned earlier. What matters more than construction method is material and edge sharpness.

This. Material trumps all other factors in durability. A high-carbon stainless stamped will trump a stainless forged anyday.

by **Rinsaikeru** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:11 pm UTC

I have a pretty hard/non-porous cutting board--but it's because I don't live in a house with a gluten free kitchen. I need to be sure that my cutting board is a) distinguishable from the others and b) able to be de-glutened. It's not glass though.

by **BCaz** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:34 pm UTC

I'll give a little rundown of some great cookware I've picked up over the last few years.

Knives: The most important part of my kitchen set, I'm utterly helpless without my knife blocks. I've tried most of the knife brands out there and I have to say, the Shun Classic knives (the normal ones, not the ken onion models with the funky handles) are far and away my absolute favorite. As long as you get them professionally sharpened every 6 months (or spend a ridiculous amount of time getting your grindstone technique perfect) they'll last a good long time and will cut through most anything. As a caveat, the Shun knives are great for right-handed cooks, they feel a little odd in the hands of lefties because of the D-shaped handle. 10" Chef's knife, 7.5" Santoku, 5" utility knife, and one of their bread knives are the start of a fantastic set. I would advise going with a Henkles paring knife, as I find their blade/handle length ratio makes them super easy to maintain superb control.

Pans: Get a cast iron skillet if you don't have one already ... seriously ... go now if you don't have it. Once seasoned properly, food out of these things will almost always taste better than food cooked on a Teflon pan, and they can take a beating in the oven, giving you some added flexibility for pan-roasting meat. For a brand, I'm loving my All-Clad LTD² pans, specifically my 3qt. saute pan, it's one of the more versatile pans in my arsenal and it's machine-washable (for the lazy cooks out there). Le Crusset makes some fantastic stuff; their braising pans, dutch ovens, and soup pots are second to none. Pricey yes, but if you can splurge, go for it.

Cutting Boards: Ideally I'd love an end-grain Maple cutting board, but in my tiny kitchen it's just not worth it. I've got a bunch of plastic dishwashable cutting boards (labeled for chicken, vegetables, meat, etc.) that work just fine.

Random Tools: It might sound kind of odd, but the three most useful things in my kitchen are my many sets of tongs, multiple size whisks, and a heat-resistant, full silicone spatula. I use those guys all the freaking time.

Also, hi XKCD community, first post here.

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