0270: "Merlin"

[Berge]

Alt text: I mean, the black-and-white stuff was running backward, but it hardly mattered to the story.

I love Merlin stories. And trying to picture that sort of worldview. Would he hear people talking backwards, and have to speak backwards in order to be understood? Unfortunately I've never seen memento, only heard people talk about it.

...I also named my cat Merlin. Once again xkcd strikes home!

[Phil]

Imagine every movies running backward like memento. Even in normal time direction they're usually hard to understand...

[MissingDividends]

That was good on so many levels.

I sorta wonder if that (the "goodbyes" theme) might be saying something about the chances of us seeing the "Choices" characters again, but that's probably over thinking it.

Once again xkcd strikes home!

I hear ya.

Imagine every movies running backward like memento. Even in normal time direction they're usually hard to understand...

True, they might be harder to understand, but they'd probably be a bit better once you got the hang of it; going forwards, lots of them end the same way, but they all start differently.

[mikoangelo]

I mean, the black-and-white stuff was running backward, but it hardly mattered to the story.

Well, I'd say that given he's used to seeing everything backwards, it was just as hard to understand initially as everyone else. Of course the plot was easier to follow, possibly.

[MissingDividends]

I mean, the black-and-white stuff was running backward, but it hardly mattered to the story.

Well, I'd say that given he's used to seeing everything backwards, it was just as hard to understand initially as everyone else. Of course the plot was easier to follow, possibly.

I guess it makes sense that if everything you've ever seen was backwards, seeing something "forwards" would be just as confusing as seeing something backward for someone used to seeing things forward.

[TheProfoundWord]

I would just like to state that Memento was an awesome movie and, incidentally, I found myself talking about it today (had struck up a conversation about movies with really great twists, the top two in my opinion being Fight Club and Memento). As far as the Merlin books go, I've only read a bit of them, though now that there is a comic about it, I'll be sure to finish what I started.

[Darth Eru]

I haven't actually read Merlin, although now I might, but it seems to me that unless Merlin was actually traveling back in time it wouldn't work the way as described in the comic. Here's the way I picture it:

The dashes are memory, and the arrows are the direction in the timestream the person is going.

Normal Person (for reference):
------->
[time interval]
---------->
and so on

Edit: this is the way I initially thought it would be, but it is also the way the comic contradicts.
Merlin not travelling back in time but still "remembering" the future:
>-------
[time interval]
>----
and so on

Merlin travelling back in time, and the way the comic implies it working.
<-------
[time interval]
<----------
and so on

So if anyone understands my bad explanation, could you clarify which scenario is actually in the book the comic references?

[The LuigiManiac]

I had forgotten about the new comic today!

Also, this is one of those comics I understand little about.

[Anmorata]

I always felt that Memento was more like a Spirograph picture, structurally. Forwards and backwards, all at once.. a bit like my train of thought. I followed the movie with -no- problem.

Great comic today.

[Phi]

I like to think the train is taking off as they're standing there talking.

[Sandry]

Sure, it seems like a great idea to get all your naivete and stupidity out in your dotage, be fairly competent at middle age, a font of knowledge and wisdom in the prime of your life and them to be a complete whiz in your childhood... but you'd get beaten to a bloody pulp. Repeatedly. You wouldn't make it to birth.

Also, there's only so much living in a cave any one man should do.

[airtank]

uh. yes.

(i'm having a huge nerd night and today's comic fits in perfectly!)

[EradicateIV]

Perhaps I should actually watch Memento already.

[TigerX]

The Once and Future King was required reading at my graduating HS. I just managed to miss it thanks to some idiot putting me in the wrong English section. I probably should go back and read it someday.

[UserGoogol]

I haven't actually read Merlin, although now I might, but it seems to me that unless Merlin was actually traveling back in time it wouldn't work the way as described in the comic. Here's the way I picture it:

I don't think there's actually a meaningful difference between "travelling forwards in time and remembering the future" and "travelling backwards in time and remembering the future." At any given point in time, you would be exactly the same: doing things in the present and having a "memory" of the future.

(Except maybe if you set things up such that the laws of physics were time-reversed within his body, but that would inevitably lead to far weirder things than a wizard with a strange sense of predestination.)

Ah wait, according to Wikipedia, Merlyn ages in reverse, so I guess the laws of physics are time-reversed within his body, if only in a superficial "I'm writing fantasy, I'm not going to worry about the gritty details" sense.

[dr7]

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. (DNA, of course)

I don't believe in time travel and backwards time and all that since I do believe in time as an illusion; life just flows and time is simply the way we mark the flow of our lives.

Course, I could be wrong and we one day can finally go back in time to answer the biggest question that plagues humanity each and every single day:

WHERE DID I LEAVE MY DAMN KEYS?

[Froodulous]

Time is relative.

Maybe everyone but merlyn was moving at faster-than-light speeds making it appear that Merlyn was going backwards.

Or maybe the writer just thought that idea of anti-ageing was cool, I don't know.

[SohumB]

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. (DNA, of course)

I was waiting for that

If the laws of physics worked backwards within your body, would you absorb moisture from the air and suck them in your sweat pores? Would your retina emit rays of light? What would you see?

Would you, if you're massively hungover in the morning, say "Sweet, I'm going to have a party tonight!"

Wait... preannuals already do that.
(Terry Pratchett, of course).

[Konst]

"Monday begins on Saturday" by both Strugatskys features both a Merlin and such a time-traveller. The time-traveller is two persons, one travelling forward and one backward in entire days.

[evilbeanfiend]

memento is a fine film - comic could do with a spoiler warning perhaps

[Edna]

Best one yet.

Made me proper giggle

[LE4dGOLEM]

memento is a fine film - comic could do with a spoiler warning perhaps

[McLurker]

Memento is one of my favourite films.

I've yet to read The Once and Future King. but I have seen The Sword in the Stone which was (very loosely) based on it.

[bookishbunny]

Memento is one of my favourite films.

I loved it, too.

I loved the punchline on this one. Gave me the giggles.

[skeptical scientist]

memento is a fine film - comic could do with a spoiler warning perhaps

Eh, nothing really spoilery in the comic. It has to do with the construction of the movie, which was in the previews and other advertisements, iirc. Just knowing how the movie is constructed going in doesn't spoil the ending.

[bookishbunny]

memento is a fine film - comic could do with a spoiler warning perhaps

Eh, nothing really spoilery in the comic. It has to do with the construction of the movie, which was in the previews and other advertisements, iirc. Just knowing how the movie is constructed going in doesn't spoil the ending.

I agree. I think more would be revealed on the back of the DVD case.

[Darth Eru]

I haven't actually read Merlin, although now I might, but it seems to me that unless Merlin was actually traveling back in time it wouldn't work the way as described in the comic. Here's the way I picture it:

I don't think there's actually a meaningful difference between "travelling forwards in time and remembering the future" and "travelling backwards in time and remembering the future." At any given point in time, you would be exactly the same: doing things in the present and having a "memory" of the future.

It does make a difference. It may appear the same from observers on the outside, but to Merlin himself there would be a difference.

If he were travelling forward in time and remebering the future, then after a time interval for him, he would remember less. In this case, first hellos would not be cause for tears, because he can remember the relationship that will take place, but he still has to actually experience it.

But if he were actually travelling backwards, and therefore his memories were actually memories of the future (for us) but of his own past, then first hellos would be cause for tears because from his perspective they're even more final than final goodbyes (because you can't guarantee that with a final goodbye you'll never see them again).

So as you see, there would be a difference between my two scenarios, and the comic only works with one.

[gtkarber]

Two things:

The first: that final panel is Merlin sitting down to watch Memento.

The second: I bet, in general, it was a bitch to watch movies with him, because he would always want to discuss the film before you saw it.

[evilbeanfiend]

memento is a fine film - comic could do with a spoiler warning perhaps

Eh, nothing really spoilery in the comic. It has to do with the construction of the movie, which was in the previews and other advertisements, iirc. Just knowing how the movie is constructed going in doesn't spoil the ending.

I agree. I think more would be revealed on the back of the DVD case.

ya it was a little tongue in cheek, and an excuse for someone to post the spoiler comic

[earcaraxe]

Doesn't T.H. White spell it "Merlyn"?

[space_raptor]

The Once and Future King was required reading at my graduating HS. I just managed to miss it thanks to some idiot putting me in the wrong English section. I probably should go back and read it someday.

I recommend it, it's very good.

Pretty good comic today. I enjoy xkcd characters because they take things I think are kinda cool, and then kick them up a notch. Bam!

[evilbeanfiend]

iirc the memento dvd has a special feature to play all the scenes in reverse order so you can see it somewhat like merlin. still a decent story that way but not as good as the 'proper' way round.

[richlayers]

I love the genre-blending, but I LOVE stick-Merlin.

[Ren]

Stick Merlin was the best part of this comic for me, since I've neither seen "Memento" or read T.H. White.

That said, [Stick Merlin] is pretty awesome.

[Jadestone]

I read those books. An interesting way to live, no doubt...

And stick-merlin is pretty sweet.

[McLurker]

And stick-merlin is pretty sweet.

It's the beard on a stick figure that looks good.

[Sprocket]

Awesome comic.

I wonder how he feels about Pulp Fiction....

[Drake Zure]

crap, now i gotta watch Memento.

curse you, Esteemed Authorial One!

(i assign titles randomly.)

[TheTankengine]

I haven't actually read Merlin, although now I might, but it seems to me that unless Merlin was actually traveling back in time it wouldn't work the way as described in the comic. Here's the way I picture it:

I don't think there's actually a meaningful difference between "travelling forwards in time and remembering the future" and "travelling backwards in time and remembering the future." At any given point in time, you would be exactly the same: doing things in the present and having a "memory" of the future.

It does make a difference. It may appear the same from observers on the outside, but to Merlin himself there would be a difference.

If he were travelling forward in time and remebering the future, then after a time interval for him, he would remember less. In this case, first hellos would not be cause for tears, because he can remember the relationship that will take place, but he still has to actually experience it.

But if he were actually travelling backwards, and therefore his memories were actually memories of the future (for us) but of his own past, then first hellos would be cause for tears because from his perspective they're even more final than final goodbyes (because you can't guarantee that with a final goodbye you'll never see them again).

So as you see, there would be a difference between my two scenarios, and the comic only works with one.

I didn't really understand how Merlyn would have memories of the future, but now I get it. Your explanation is fantastic!

I loved Memento. Unfortunately books are for losers, so I've never read that series.

[SNAFU]

As a kid, I read every bit of Arthurian Lore that I could get my hands on (I stopped after Monty Python showed me the "true" King Arthur), but the mechanics behind Merlin's living in reverse eluded me. I decided that he lives every day normally because it would be impossible to answer questions before they were asked, but he remembers every day after today instead of every day before.

I think the more pure Merlin from where the Arthurian legend emerged was a dice-casting fortune teller.

Merin watching DVDs is such a fun idea. The Godfather would be interesting.