0285: "Wikipedian Protester"

[parkaboy]

Is that a finger?

hehehe thats the first thing i noticed, the politician point.

[arbivark]

I'm halfway through reading 1984 right now, and while it's a great book for scaring people away from facism... Neither one really seems to be quite as on the mark as another book written in 2003, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom. It's not old enough and the author (Cory Doctorow) isn't quite famous enough in the mainstream for it to be a classic, but the way it presents the entire world as a utopia of ideas rather then one of uniformity (1984) or shallow pleasures (Brave New World) is really fascinating. Honestly though I just want it to get on some school's reading list to see how long it takes for parents to catch on that the society is called Bitchun.

I'm going to look for posterboard and a blue marker now.

If you haven't read Brave New World or 1984-
http://www.truly-free.org/

If you haven't read Magic Kingdom-
http://craphound.com/down/download.php

I'm a fan of both orwell and doctorow.
Some people might not know Orwell wrote "Down and Out in Paris and London". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_O ... and_London
It's about a level of poverty most of us have never seen, much less experienced.

[Melkarion]

To be completely honest, I find "Brave New World" to be a better reflection of Western (do people still use that term?) society than "1984". I still love both books, though.

I can see this, though its not nearly as scary.

I agree with Rem. I honestly hadn't thought of it in those terms before, but I feel as though most of what I dislike about our US political system (I'll confine myself to the one I know... but I do mean the entire system, not just the current political "winners") boils down to this difference. It's more of a semantic sleight of hand than blatant coercion, and it explains why I can never convince myself that my friends who have strong party preferences are being entirely realistic.

Honestly though, isn't it a little frightening that Huxley's world *is* less frightening? Shouldn't we be as scared of being led around by our gonads as of being driven by fear of death/torture? It's all just the exploitation of instinct over reason in either case. Sure, gonads are undoubtedly better than torture in and of themselves... but coercion is still coercion, right? Would we be content to knuckle under if only the guys telling the lies could make them all happy lies?

Now Rem and Wanderer have gone and made me fear for the fate of humanity. Ho hum.

[German Sausage]

I'm halfway through reading 1984 right now, and while it's a great book for scaring people away from facism... Neither one really seems to be quite as on the mark as another book written in 2003, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom. It's not old enough and the author (Cory Doctorow) isn't quite famous enough in the mainstream for it to be a classic, but the way it presents the entire world as a utopia of ideas rather then one of uniformity (1984) or shallow pleasures (Brave New World) is really fascinating. Honestly though I just want it to get on some school's reading list to see how long it takes for parents to catch on that the society is called Bitchun.

I'm going to look for posterboard and a blue marker now.

If you haven't read Brave New World or 1984-
http://www.truly-free.org/

If you haven't read Magic Kingdom-
http://craphound.com/down/download.php

I'm a fan of both orwell and doctorow.
Some people might not know Orwell wrote "Down and Out in Paris and London". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_O ... and_London
It's about a level of poverty most of us have never seen, much less experienced.

that book is my inspiration for living in europe (for a week or so in their summer - i'm not crazy). i read it about five times in year 12.

[voodooKobra]

Is that a finger?

hehehe thats the first thing i noticed, the politician point.

And that's also why I made this:

[mybadluck22]

Personally, my favorite part of any wikipedia article is the following from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zords_in_M ... #Ultrazord

Note: On a few occasions, an Ultrazord was summoned when its necessity was questionable at best, often this was used against monsters that were too tough for the Megazord and Dragonzord, but probably not the Dragonzord Battle Mode[neutrality disputed].

Wikipedia can make anything sound serious.

[Sprocket]

This is not the first comic to show fingers. [1]

1.^ http://xkcd.com/c156.html

Though it is one of the better ones in a couple weeks.

Also, it would be pretty funny that the guy puts a "The neutrality of this speech it disputed" or "This Speech is too short, please help the people expanding it" on second tought it may be "This speech is too long..."

Some how that just made me think [My spoon is too big.[1]] but yeah, that would be awesome, and if you were a famous computer programer, you might get your picture in "life imitating XKCD"

1.^http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2181738751760473527

[william]

Personally, my favorite part of any wikipedia article is the following from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zords_in_M ... #Ultrazord

Note: On a few occasions, an Ultrazord was summoned when its necessity was questionable at best, often this was used against monsters that were too tough for the Megazord and Dragonzord, but probably not the Dragonzord Battle Mode[neutrality disputed].

Wikipedia can make anything sound serious.

Except Jack Thompson. That is probably one of the most cited Wikipedia articles due to the fact that everything it says is incredibly outlandish.

[ehiunno]

Except Jack Thompson. That is probably one of the most cited Wikipedia articles due to the fact that everything he says is incredibly outlandish.

fix'd

[Omniferous]

Shot at 2007-07-05

Found here.

I find this just lovely.

[Alpha Omicron]

I don't think policy pages need citations, do they?

[LE4dGOLEM]

I agree! I really wish that politicians would cite their sources! That would pretty much be the greatest thing to happen to modern politics.

Yes.

The troops here and across the world are fighting a global war on terror. The war reached our shores on September the 11th, 2001[citation needed]. The terrorists who attacked us -- and the terrorists we face -- murder in the name of a totalitarian ideology that hates freedom,[citation needed] rejects tolerance,[citation needed] and despises all dissent[citation needed]. Their aim is to remake the Middle East in their own grim image of tyranny and oppression[citation needed] -- by toppling governments, by driving us out of the region, and by exporting terror.

To achieve these aims, they have continued to kill -- in Madrid, Istanbul, Jakarta, Casablanca, Riyadh, Bali, and elsewhere. The terrorists believe that free societies are essentially corrupt and decadent,[citation needed] and with a few hard blows they can force us to retreat[citation needed]. They are mistaken. After September the 11th, I made a commitment to the American people: This nation will not wait to be attacked again[citation needed]. We will defend our freedom[citation needed]. We will take the fight to the enemy.

Iraq is the latest battlefield in this war. Many terrorists who kill innocent men, women, and children on the streets of Baghdad are followers of the same murderous ideology that took the lives of our citizens in New York, in Washington, and Pennsylvania[citation needed]. There is only one course of action against them[citation needed]: to defeat them abroad before they attack us at home[citation needed]. The commander in charge of coalition operations in Iraq -- who is also senior commander at this base -- General John Vines, put it well the other day. He said: "We either deal with terrorism and this extremism abroad, or we deal with it when it comes to us."[1]

Our mission in Iraq is clear[citation needed]. We're hunting down the terrorists[citation needed]. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation[citation needed] that is an ally in the war on terror[citation needed]. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East[citation needed]. We are removing a source of violence and instability,[citation needed] and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren[citation needed].

The work in Iraq is difficult and it is dangerous. Like most Americans, I see the images of violence and bloodshed[citation needed]. Every picture is horrifying, and the suffering is real. Amid all this violence, I know Americans ask the question: Is the sacrifice worth it? It is worth it[citation needed], and it is vital to the future security of our country. And tonight I will explain the reasons why.

Needs NPOV and weasel word tags.

[teh_internut]

this one was ok ... but there are tons of funny things about wikipedia ... graffiti ... orphaned pages ... etc. etc.

[jsnipe]

I hope you didn't store it at the Ministry of Truth...

+1, insightful

[jsnipe]

I want a T-shirt that says .[citation needed].

That would be awesome.

I would love one that simply says:

CITATION

[Aufero]

I registered just to say that I'd buy a T-shirt of the mouseover text:

SEMI-PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION

[Rockapotamus]

I totally want to make a stencil saying [citation needed], and go around spray painting billboards.

[voodooKobra]

Shot at 2007-07-05

Found here.

I find this just lovely.

Hahahaha!

[ehiunno]

I don't think policy pages need citations, do they?

its not a policy page.

[BenFrantzDale]

Here are some [citation needed] stickers and, for good measure, some POV stickers as well.

Or print your own: citation needed and POV.

[++$-]

Meh... This is one of the things I really HATE about Wikipedia's state today. There are articles where EVERY line is marked with [citation needed]. It just makes the article unreadable.

Can it not be left up to the reader to notice when things are cited and when they are not? Seriously, why isn't the burden of determining the reliability of the information not on the reader of the Wikipedia? Shouldn't you ALWAYS take everything you read on an encyclopedia anyone can edit with a grain of salt? [/rant]

It's not there for the readers as much as for the editors. When I edit an article, the first thing I do is find sources for things that aren't yet sourced, or fail to do so and remove the assertion. The [citation needed] tags are helpful in doing that.

[smayper]

Alberto Gonzales came here to the University of Florida last night mainly to talk about choosing a career in public service, and some students a few rows behind me jumped up mid-speech and displayed a [citation needed] banner in the aisle. Just figured y'all might get a kick out of it.

Picture

[Keroppi]

If politicians had to cite their sources, they would be unable to become career politicians.

After all, politicians rely on emotion and not logic to get things done. [citation needed] The most useful emotion to manipulate voters is fear. [citation needed]

Think about it.

Just like Orwell's Big Brother, [citation needed] current politicians use fear and faceless enemies to ensure that their agendas can be followed. [citation needed] Agendas that seem more and more driven to ensure certain politicians remain in power and that the common people are kept much like mushrooms (fed shit and kept in the dark). [citation needed]

Orwell's 1984 should be required reading for everyone at the high school level, due to the startling comparisons between its world and ours. [citation needed] I tried to teach it this past year (inclusion English classes with the seniors!), but the school set had gone missing. I now suspect that it had been purposefully removed from the school (and copies from the library) to PREVENT easy access to the students. [citation needed]

Seriously, go read this book - ESPECIALLY if you are an American.

Although I believe you've got a point, I'm not sure whether or not your example completely applies. I think there's a big difference between opinions and facts. I think the rule should be, state the facts, with citations, then state your opinions about these facts, and no citations are needed. Thus, your audience is capable of digesting the real facts, and then deciding whether or not your opinions follow.

[aco]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Saw this at Uni, it's some ad for Sony headphones:

[nyeguy]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Saw this at Uni, it's some ad for Sony headphones:

I'm disappointed. It should be in blue.

[Southwest]

I saw this today while randomly bouncing around Wikipedia. I had spent probably the better part of an hour reading about mines, IEDs, booby traps, and various and sundry types of bombs, just out of pure curiosity. Then, realizing how suspicious that would look to Big Brother, I adjusted my tinfoil hat and looked at something else.

Many stalls offer cuddly toys as prizes — many teenage romances are established at funfairs, where thrill rides provide ample excuse for embracing^{[citation needed]}.

(Emphasis, of course, mine.)

I just couldn't believe it. Too far, Wikipedia, too far!

[trvsdrlng]

I saw this today while randomly bouncing around Wikipedia. I had spent probably the better part of an hour reading about mines, IEDs, booby traps, and various and sundry types of bombs, just out of pure curiosity. Then, realizing how suspicious that would look to Big Brother, I adjusted my tinfoil hat and looked at something else.

Many stalls offer cuddly toys as prizes — many teenage romances are established at funfairs, where thrill rides provide ample excuse for embracing^{[citation needed]}.

(Emphasis, of course, mine.)

I just couldn't believe it. Too far, Wikipedia, too far!

Any better now?

[ConMan]

I saw this today while randomly bouncing around Wikipedia. I had spent probably the better part of an hour reading about mines, IEDs, booby traps, and various and sundry types of bombs, just out of pure curiosity. Then, realizing how suspicious that would look to Big Brother, I adjusted my tinfoil hat and looked at something else.

Many stalls offer cuddly toys as prizes — many teenage romances are established at funfairs, where thrill rides provide ample excuse for embracing^{[citation needed]}.

(Emphasis, of course, mine.)

I just couldn't believe it. Too far, Wikipedia, too far!

Any better now?

I think the diff makes it clearer what you added. Speaking as a Wikipedian, I should be burying you under an alphabet soup explaining reliable sources, as someone who actually has that song on his iPod I'm finding it hard to fault your reasoning.

[trvsdrlng]

I think the diff makes it clearer what you added. Speaking as a Wikipedian, I should be burying you under an alphabet soup explaining reliable sources, as someone who actually has that song on his iPod I'm finding it hard to fault your reasoning.

I'm well aware of what makes a reliable source. I'm also well aware that what I did was rather... unorthodox. But even an untenable source is better than no source, at least IMO. And Wikipedia has that citation template for a reason. I respectfully refer you to Wikipedia: Be bold for an explanation of my actions.

All pretentiousness aside, I was just making a point that almost anything can be sourced. Oh, and feel free to bury - as my userpage says, constructive criticism is welcomed!

[ConMan]

I'm well aware of what makes a reliable source. I'm also well aware that what I did was rather... unorthodox. But even an untenable source is better than no source, at least IMO. And Wikipedia has that citation template for a reason. I respectfully refer you to Wikipedia: Be bold for an explanation of my actions.

All pretentiousness aside, I was just making a point that almost anything can be sourced. Oh, and feel free to bury - as my userpage says, constructive criticism is welcomed!

I don't think I'll revert you, and I agree with your philosophy that a poor source is better than none (as long as it's not poor because it's just plain wrong). It will be interesting to see what the more RS-focused editors think of your edit, though

[Kikkoman]

To commemorate my first posting on the XKCD forums, a custom [Citation Needed] sign. (The camera didn't take a very good shot of it, the lines are much bolder)

[pyrodude150]

oh man. Sarah Palin is coming to my high school's football field tommorow. Im so doing this.

[Nifar]

This comic got mention on the Wikipedia "Citation Needed" page.

Also, on a bit more on topic note, my school's debate club now has a few Wikipedian signs: citation needed, neutrality disputed, etc. Being a club, and not a team, we're a bit more laid back about stuff like that, so when I proposed the idea to my teacher, she absolutely loved it.

[pyrodude150]

its also on the wikipedia page for "wikipedia"

check it

[kerpal]

check it out. the perfect marriage of humour, xkcd and tom lehrer.
The Folk Song Army by Tom Lehrer on youtube, not sure i'm allowed to post a link yet...

[paragon12321]

I registered just to say that I'd buy a T-shirt of the mouseover text:

SEMI-PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION

NO! Then George Bush would just have to make 20 constitutional amendments and wait two weeks and he could edit it however he wants!

[G_Discharge]

This is my girlfriend and a classmate and William & Mary re-enacting this comic with the street preachers.