Why Windows is better than Linux

[Cue]

Also what's up with cmd? I just started using it, and weaning myself off bash is so difficult. cmd is awfully horribly crippled. I hated bash, with it's syntactical whitespace, for so long. I had no idea what I was missing.

EDIT: Please disregard, I found a better thread to natter in. Thank you all for listening!

Do you keep typing 'ls' and it complains about an unknown command...?

I do that on a daily basis.

[Berengal]

Unless you need wifi, in which case, yes, you may well need to do some messing around to get your networking up and running.

I've never had a wireless that didn't work, even the weird wireless usb dongle I had to use once worked (without rebooting). My network, both wired and wireless, hasn't worked out of the box on windows in ten years. Just pointing out that linux has a much better track record than windows even though it isn't perfect.

[Amnesiasoft]

I've had the exact opposite experience. None of my wireless cards have worked out of the box on Linux, and usually only barely work after running around with ndiswrapper/broadcom firmware cutter. Windows on the other hand, doesn't have any issues since XP SP1 I think it is.

[phillipsjk]

I like Windows because it's the universal platform for every game I want to play. I've also owned my homemade winderbox for over 4 years now and never had a single OS crash or BSOD. The only time it turns off without my permission is during a power outage.

Blatant lies are not good form, my good man!

To be fair, Microsoft made it possible to really disable windows update after the "Rebooting the internet" controversy. Though, I think I caught XP automatically installing stuff when set to "download only". Windows is actually stable if you don't install anything but a few well-behaved applications. That means DRM-infested games are out.

Edit: It's GNU/Linux, not just "Linux."

[kernelpanic]

But DRM and rootkits are there to protect me from the under-worldly evils of piracy!
Now, seriously, do you remember when Sony's president said "Most people don't know what a rootkit is, so they don't need to worry about it". Well, that is the exact same thing as fucking a hooker, but she doesn't tell you about her several STDs (Well, exactly the same, but without the pleasant sensation at the end)

[Zamfir]

kernelpanic, given that windows doesn't have all those advantages mentioned in our OP anymore, shouldn't you be moving to Linux by now?

[kernelpanic]

You mean I am not allowed to excuse myself by saying "Outlook wouldn't open it"?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Oh, hi.

I believe that the better OS is the one who can suit your needs. For example, if you do tons of PC gaming, you can use linux, but it might not be the best thing to use, since windows is better for that kind of stuff. Now, if you only do office work, then go for any linux distro. Or if you like it, and are able to afford it, go for a mac.

I use windows 7 on my laptop, and usually arch on my desktop (now i'm using ubuntu)

[Woegjiub]

Oh, hi.

I believe that the better OS is the one who can suit your needs. For example, if you do tons of PC gaming, you can use linux, but it might not be the best thing to use, since windows is better for that kind of stuff. Now, if you only do office work, then go for any linux distro. Or if you like it, and are able to afford it, go for a mac.

I use windows 7 on my laptop, and usually arch on my desktop (now i'm using ubuntu)

I take it you don't really game then?
I pretty much only play HoN now :p
I'll probably install win7 in order to run SC2, D3 and TESV though.

[Emu*]

Wait for QuakeLive to announce what its platform usage figures are in a few months: bet there'll be a few dual-booters who'll spend more time in Linux than they used to...

[ash.gti]

See: Macs. Initially, they had very few major games for them. Now, they still have fewer than windows, but there are many publishers that create Mac versions. Transitioning a Mac version to Linux would not be particularly difficult, especially since most Mac games use OpenGL already.

I find it amusing sometimes with mac games. I looked inside the Command and Conquer 3.app folder and it has it setup like you would in Windows within the director structure (A folder call C/Program Files/Command and Conquer 3) which amused me to no end. If your game engine supports OpenGL then there is probably no reason your games wont work on a mac and linux to be honest. But alas Direct X and all the things that go along with it really make programming games easier.

[Woegjiub]

But alas Direct X and all the things that go along with it really make programming games easier.

Damn you for your false promises, Khronos Group
We really needed that new gaming OpenGL3.
I thought they could do something similar to KDE - keep the old and new concurrently, and people will swap to the new when they need to (*glares at CAD*).

[ash.gti]

I personally think Direct X's all encompassing nature makes things a lot more simple. It already handles networks, audio, input, 2d and 3d graphics. Currently you can find a way to do all of that without Direct X but not in the same way where you only have 1 type of library to call. Not that Direct X is everything you have ever wanted from a game development environment, it just has a convenience factor. Although there are platforms that do just fine without it (see Play Station 3 and the Wii) and a lot of game engines wrapper most of its functionality into their own library to make their code more portable between systems.

[crzftx]

My three year old could install most Windows apps (and did install several). Linux? Cross your fingers and pray. If it doesn't work, your best bet is to delete and start again.

Are you living in 1993? Your 3-yo could accept a license agreement then click "next" 51 times, then enter a 7336746958-digit product code and reboot 5 times BUT could not check a box and click "install"? 500p3r-g33ky!

Does everyone else notice both parties tendency to completely over-exaggerate both sides? It just makes you sounds really stupid...
I have no trouble installing an app on either OS. I've never had an installer with 51 "next" buttons. I've never seen a product key with more than 30 characters. But installing is never the problem. On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

I'm going to try to give this reply without exaggeration.
Network - never had a card NOT work under Windows, often needed to use a flash drive to obtain the first driver. I could not get my DWA-542 (I think; it's a D-link draft N PCI card) to work on Linux. My laptop seems to work without getting a driver from somewhere else on both OSes. Linux allowed me to hack my neighbor's (and my own) WEP key. I couldn't do it on Windows.

Reasons Windows is better:
I need[ed] my COD4. Linux won't do it. I don't like the idea of bashing Windows and then emulating it to play games...
My network card doesn't work under Linux, although not a problem on the laptop (since it works)
I don't like the OOO UI, and I quite like MS word's

[Amnesiasoft]

I've never seen a product key with more than 30 characters.

Neverwinter Nights Diamond. The game plus the two expansions each have a 35 character CD key. Leaving you with what is essentially a 105 character CD key as you must enter all 3 of them during the installation.

[Area Man]

Premier crzftx is a degenerate atheistic commie.

[Emu*]

What's wrong with atheism? I like my knowledge of the universe to be backed by facts or mathematical proof thank you very much.

[Area Man]

The next line was supposed to be:
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is a [religious] War Room!"


It's a classic, dammit.

[hotaru]

What's wrong with atheism? I like my knowledge of the universe to be backed by facts or mathematical proof thank you very much.

atheism isn't backed by facts or mathematical proof. i think what you want is ignosticism.

[markfiend]

On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

Because opening up Synaptic and scrolling through the apps available is really tricky.

[ash.gti]

On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

Because opening up Synaptic and scrolling through the apps available is really tricky.

But then here is my CD and my CD key? and what if I need customer support? Or want a paper manual? /sarcasm

[Endless Mike]

On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

Because opening up Synaptic and scrolling through the apps available is really tricky.

Unless it's not there and you have to type in the name of the repository, enable Universe, and so on.

I find it amusing sometimes with mac games. I looked inside the Command and Conquer 3.app folder and it has it setup like you would in Windows within the director structure (A folder call C/Program Files/Command and Conquer 3) which amused me to no end. If your game engine supports OpenGL then there is probably no reason your games wont work on a mac and linux to be honest. But alas Direct X and all the things that go along with it really make programming games easier.

Isn't that because EA is using an emulation layer to run their games on OS X?

[ash.gti]

Isn't that because EA is using an emulation layer to run their games on OS X?

I have no idea how EA ports games from Windows to a Mac so I can't really be sure to be honest. One of my friends suggested they might even be using a fine tuned version of Wine but I can't verify that (I don't have it installed anymore, reformatted my hard driver when I upgraded to 10.6)

[stephentyrone]

Isn't that because EA is using an emulation layer to run their games on OS X?

At least some EA games are sitting on top of Cider on the Mac.
e: fixed quote attribution

[Endless Mike]

Why you gotta attribute my quote to ash?

[crzftx]

On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

Because opening up Synaptic and scrolling through the apps available is really tricky.

Wait, that's finding something specifically, right? I'm talking in general. I presume you knew that, since if I already know what software I'm looking for, there is no difficulty in finding it. But if you did know that, it's not just as easy as "scrolling through the apps" (or maybe it is?).
Say I'm looking for something that accomplishes goal X while maintaining standard Y. If I know the name of something already, yes searching Synaptic (Linux) or searching Google (Windows) are equally easy. But if I don't know what software (if any) meets my needs, it seems to be more likely it's found for Windows.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I told you that was just in my experience, or implied it or something.

[Emu*]

Ubuntu's add/remove software tool searches within the package descriptions too, so still no need to know what it's called.

[Woegjiub]

Wait, that's finding something specifically, right? I'm talking in general. I presume you knew that, since if I already know what software I'm looking for, there is no difficulty in finding it. But if you did know that, it's not just as easy as "scrolling through the apps" (or maybe it is?).
Say I'm looking for something that accomplishes goal X while maintaining standard Y. If I know the name of something already, yes searching Synaptic (Linux) or searching Google (Windows) are equally easy. But if I don't know what software (if any) meets my needs, it seems to be more likely it's found for Windows.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I told you that was just in my experience, or implied it or something.

It's easier in linux until you want something specific.
Even then though, it's not much harder.
I just go to launchpad, copy the text there into synaptic's custom repo's list, and voila!
Autoupdate etc.
And sometimes I just install the windows version because I'm lazy. With apps, it always works for me.

[markfiend]

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I told you that was just in my experience, or implied it or something.

Oh yeah, agreed. I did put the wink smiley there because I wasn't being entirely serious.

[OOPMan]

On both OSes you still need to find the software. I personally find it easier to find what I'm looking for under Windows since more stuff seems to be compatible.

Because opening up Synaptic and scrolling through the apps available is really tricky.

Wait, that's finding something specifically, right? I'm talking in general. I presume you knew that, since if I already know what software I'm looking for, there is no difficulty in finding it. But if you did know that, it's not just as easy as "scrolling through the apps" (or maybe it is?).
Say I'm looking for something that accomplishes goal X while maintaining standard Y. If I know the name of something already, yes searching Synaptic (Linux) or searching Google (Windows) are equally easy. But if I don't know what software (if any) meets my needs, it seems to be more likely it's found for Windows.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I told you that was just in my experience, or implied it or something.

I find that Googling for:

XYZ app linux

Works just as well as:

XYZ app windows

[lulzfish]

Application for windows:
Self-unpacking executable that puts a bunch of crap in C:/Program Files/Foo

Application for linux:
RPM that puts a bunch of crap everywhere
deb that puts a bunch of crap everywhere
Source tar.gz that neatly compiles into its own directory, yet requires you to compile it

Application for gobolinux:
Binary tar.gz that doesn't exist
Source tar.gz that doesn't compile because you're stupid and your X setup is broken. (Or because GoboLinux is sadly out of date and just doesn't like to work)

[Endless Mike]

Application for OS X: .app file you shove in /Applications

[ash.gti]

OS X has made it really easy to install stuff, only 1 or 2 programs I have actually had an installer, the rest i just drag and drop onto the Applications folder.

[Endless Mike]

I like when the .dmg has an alias for /Applications, so I can just drag the .app without leaving that folder.

[phlip]

Application for windows:
Self-unpacking executable that puts a bunch of crap in C:/Program Files/Foo

And a bunch of crap in C:\Windows\System32 (possibly requiring a reboot to take effect), and a bunch of crap in %APPDATA%, and stuff strewn throughout the registry. And the only record of what's where is one kept in a proprietary format that can only be read by the installer in question... should you lose the uninstaller, then you'll never be able to find every remnant.

Compare that to Linux... and it's actually quite similar. /usr/share/bin instead of C:\Program Files, /usr/share/lib instead of C:\Windows\System32, ~/.foo instead of %APPDATA%\Foo, /etc instead of the registry... but if your distro has a decent package manager (most do), then the record of what's where is all centralised, and it's simple to find out which files belong to which package, or uninstall someting in a standard way. And even when you're building from source, there's things like checkinstall.

I've never used OSX, so I'm not particularly familiar with the /Applications thing, but it sounds even better. But then, this is a Win vs Lin thread.

[valarauca]

Linux laptop; because i really need windows to do college work.

Windows 7 desktop; for gaming, because I want the game to work generally the first time, not worry about wine slowing it down

[cerbie]

Er, I think that should be:
/bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/share/bin, /opt/foo/bin at a minimum, instead of Program Files (and which is really what, except for sbin, is rarely defined well).
/etc, /var, ~/.foo, ~/.foo/* instead of the registry or misc. config files under System32, usually using easily-readable files.

Also, the formats used are hardly ever proprietary, and are sometimes just gzipped text lists. Even minimally-packaged distros, like Slackware, keep manifests from installed packages, to remove what would be orphaned by a package.

You can develop an app and installer that works as well as most Linux distros and their package managers, but the FOSS side does it by default.

OTOH, I'm here in Windows2000 because my video chip's driver in Xorg does not support vsync. Nothing's perfect .

[nyeguy]

Application for OS X: .app file you shove in /Applications

I love this. Though to be fair, it is slightly more difficult to uninstall. You have to delete it from /Applications AND its files ~/Library/Application Support! That's two different places.

[Woegjiub]

Application for OS X: .app file you shove in /Applications

I love this. Though to be fair, it is slightly more difficult to uninstall. You have to delete it from /Applications AND its files ~/Library/Application Support! That's two different places.

Package management is still easier, IMO.
I just click a .deb or .rpm to install it if it's not in the repo, type in its name or description and click it if it is.
Uninstalling is a matter of unchecking it, or right clicking and "completely remove" kills all of the files.

I've tried so many times to get along with OSX, but its simplicity keeps driving me away - where is my midnight-commander style twin pane filemanager with tabs, damnit? :p

[ash.gti]

I've never used OSX, so I'm not particularly familiar with the /Applications thing, but it sounds even better. But then, this is a Win vs Lin thread.

In OS X programs are just packages in a folder that has .app in its name. Then Finder treats them slightly different than normal folders (but you can still browse the contents and everything). In OS X with Xcode when build a program as an '.app' it packages all the libraries and files into the folder with the right directory structure and copies any non-default libraries into the folder so its completely self contained for the target OS version. So if your using python for part of your program then it will link to the default python, or if your using the Quicktime framework for videos then it will link into that. The /Applications folder is the default location for .app's but since they are completely self contained you can put them anywhere you want. Only 1 or 2 programs I have didn't come as a plain ol' .app folder I drag and drop into the /Application folder (those are MS Office and Adobe CS4)

I love this. Though to be fair, it is slightly more difficult to uninstall. You have to delete it from /Applications AND its files ~/Library/Application Support! That's two different places.

Well there is also the global library application support folder /Library/Application Support, I'd suggest AppZapper if you want to completely remove something, it checks the .app for all the links it makes and will show you any of the files it touches outside of the normal install directories.