Protect children from Obama!

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Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:16 pm UTC

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby The Reaper » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:28 pm UTC

The commies are coming, the commies are coming! Hide the wimminz!
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And for the guy that can't let his kid go more than 2 feet from him at any given point in time. ... Yea, thats all I've got to say about that.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby scrovak » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:30 pm UTC

He's the frickin president. He wants to talk to the kids. Most of them are probably too caught up in the whole 'THE PRESIDENT IS COMING TO MY SCHOOL!!!!' to care about what he has to say. Furthermore, if the child you raised with your own beliefs sways his or her opinion from a 1-2 hours speech from the president, you need to do some better parenting. /mho
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Heavenlytoaster » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:36 pm UTC

I thought this was going to be about something we should think a little more about... like the future of national debt for the children when they grow up. Maybe sensibility shouldn't be expected.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:43 pm UTC

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:04 pm UTC

This is pretty dumb. I mean, it's the President. He can address whoever he wants. Now, if he tells the kids that anyone who opposes his policies hates America, then get all outraged and whatnot. I imagine it'll be closer to "don't do drugs, stay in school," so good on ya Mr. President.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby A. Akbar » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:13 pm UTC

Question, is it unusual for U.S presidents to visit schools?
Our prime minister used to visit my high school every year to give a speech and answer questions which I thought was pretty cool. Those who disagreed with her party enjoyed it more than those who didn't I think. Stopped just before I could attend :(.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:19 pm UTC

I'm a Republican Conservative [*puts on firefighter gear*], I don't like the way the President is running the country, and I still think that pulling your kids out of school is wrong. What kind of lesson are you teaching them? That if you don't agree with someone, you should go out of your way and be disruptive so as to not hear what they have to say? That our President of the US is an evil person and we should shield ourselves from his lies? It sounds very unpatriotic to me. If you really don't agree with the issues, educate your child to make his/her own decisions, and then you want have to worry about them being "brainwashed by the liberals."

Now, I also think the president needs to do his part and make sure his speech is as free as politics as can be. If he starts talking about Health Care to elementary school kids, then this is obviously just a political move, and shame on him for involving children in it. I hope it doesn't go down that way.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Mega D » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:35 pm UTC

A. Akbar wrote:Question, is it unusual for U.S presidents to visit schools?

Not even remotely. There is no controversy at all here. It's just a handful of remarkably ignorant people.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Sharlos » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:40 pm UTC

Mega D wrote:
A. Akbar wrote:Question, is it unusual for U.S presidents to visit schools?

Not even remotely. There is no controversy at all here. It's just a handful of remarkably ignorant people.

You mean people who still haven't come to terms with loosing the election and are butthurt over it still.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:48 pm UTC

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a very significant event happened when another President visited a school.
In September.
In his first year in office. </conspiracy>
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:02 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a very significant event happened when another President visited a school.
In September.
In his first year in office. </conspiracy>


Yes, President Bush managed to read an entire children's book, all by himself. Significant event, indeed :
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby frezik » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:16 pm UTC

The Republican Party chairman in Florida, Jim Greer, said he "was appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama’s socialist ideology."


I read that as "we should be the only ones allowed to spend taxpayer dollars to spread our ideology".

See, GOP, this is why you can't have nice things anymore.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:38 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:
JBJ wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a very significant event happened when another President visited a school.
In September.
In his first year in office. </conspiracy>


Yes, President Bush managed to read an entire children's book, all by himself. Significant event, indeed :

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm UTC

i would just like to point out that Bush Sr. did something like this in 1989 i believe. he talked to children about drugs via tv when the school year began.


noone complained.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:57 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:
tzvibish wrote:
JBJ wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a very significant event happened when another President visited a school.
In September.
In his first year in office. </conspiracy>


Yes, President Bush managed to read an entire children's book, all by himself. Significant event, indeed :

I hate most of your posts, but this was was enjoyable. A+++++; would read again.


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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:59 pm UTC

Most Presidents do.
Bush Sr. was in 1991
Regan did the same in 1986. Transcript here
Ronald Regan wrote:Only 5 years ago our economy suffered from high inflation, high interest rates, mushrooming government spending, and steadily increasing unemployment. A lot of people couldn't find jobs, and people on fixed incomes were finding it harder to buy the basics, such as food and shelter. Well, we got inflation down, interest rates down, and our economy created over 1\1/2\ million new jobs just last year alone. The poor are now increasingly able to dig themselves out of poverty, and that's been good economic news.

The good news in defense is that our Armed Forces, which were suffering from neglect and low funding, have now made a comeback. Morale is up in the services, and the quality of our men and women in uniform has never been better -- and I mean never. As a matter of fact, we have the highest percentage of high school graduates in uniform today than we've ever had in the history of our nation, even back when we had the compulsory draft. In addition, our nation has encouraged a more realistic sense of defense needs.

In foreign affairs we've kept our friends close and the lines of communication with our adversaries open. We've tried to give the world the sense that the United States has a coherent and logical foreign policy that reflects our respect for freedom and our opposition to tyranny.

No one complained, even though Regan included some political commentary on the economy, defense, and foreign affairs.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:07 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:Most Presidents do.
Bush Sr. was in 1991
Regan did the same in 1986. Transcript here
Ronald Regan wrote:Only 5 years ago our economy suffered from high inflation, high interest rates, mushrooming government spending, and steadily increasing unemployment. A lot of people couldn't find jobs, and people on fixed incomes were finding it harder to buy the basics, such as food and shelter. Well, we got inflation down, interest rates down, and our economy created over 1\1/2\ million new jobs just last year alone. The poor are now increasingly able to dig themselves out of poverty, and that's been good economic news.

The good news in defense is that our Armed Forces, which were suffering from neglect and low funding, have now made a comeback. Morale is up in the services, and the quality of our men and women in uniform has never been better -- and I mean never. As a matter of fact, we have the highest percentage of high school graduates in uniform today than we've ever had in the history of our nation, even back when we had the compulsory draft. In addition, our nation has encouraged a more realistic sense of defense needs.

In foreign affairs we've kept our friends close and the lines of communication with our adversaries open. We've tried to give the world the sense that the United States has a coherent and logical foreign policy that reflects our respect for freedom and our opposition to tyranny.

No one complained, even though Regan included some political commentary on the economy, defense, and foreign affairs.


Was this for elementary school students? It seems like it would be way over their heads. I actually don't have a problem with political speeches at High Schools so much, because it's a perfect opportunity for kids that age to start thinking along those lines. Enough HS age children are bright enough to think for themselves that a political speech from the president might actually be productive, regardless of the message.

Edit: I clicked on the link, and it was indeed for HS. Therefore, Obama's speech is a whole different ball game IMO.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:22 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:Was this for elementary school students? It seems like it would be way over their heads. I actually don't have a problem with political speeches at High Schools so much, because it's a perfect opportunity for kids that age to start thinking along those lines. Enough HS age children are bright enough to think for themselves that a political speech from the president might actually be productive, regardless of the message.

Edit: I clicked on the link, and it was indeed for HS. Therefore, Obama's speech is a whole different ball game IMO.

So it's okay at a high school level? What about middle school? Is 8th grade okay, but 7th grade not? Where do you draw the line?
Oh that's right, you don't have to, because he's not going to be talking about political issues. It's going to be about "the importance of persisting and succeeding in school." How is that not appropriate for all levels of education?
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:27 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
tzvibish wrote:Was this for elementary school students? It seems like it would be way over their heads. I actually don't have a problem with political speeches at High Schools so much, because it's a perfect opportunity for kids that age to start thinking along those lines. Enough HS age children are bright enough to think for themselves that a political speech from the president might actually be productive, regardless of the message.

Edit: I clicked on the link, and it was indeed for HS. Therefore, Obama's speech is a whole different ball game IMO.

So it's okay at a high school level? What about middle school? Is 8th grade okay, but 7th grade not? Where do you draw the line?
Oh that's right, you don't have to, because he's not going to be talking about political issues. It's going to be about "the importance of persisting and succeeding in school." How is that not appropriate for all levels of education?


Well, obviously, is the speech is going to be non-political, it's fine for all grade levels. Yes, I draw the line at high school for a political speech, because I think that's when kids start learning how to make their own decisions. Isn't that what the whole puberty/adolescence thing is all about, finally being able to think for yourself, but not always having the independence to do so?
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:29 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:Was this for elementary school students? It seems like it would be way over their heads. I actually don't have a problem with political speeches at High Schools so much, because it's a perfect opportunity for kids that age to start thinking along those lines. Enough HS age children are bright enough to think for themselves that a political speech from the president might actually be productive, regardless of the message.

Edit: I clicked on the link, and it was indeed for HS. Therefore, Obama's speech is a whole different ball game IMO.
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Reading the article I posted might help your confusion. Obama will be speaking at a high school in Virginia, as the article notes. The topic is "stay in school and work hard." It is not a policy speech, it is not a partisan speech, it is not compulsory. This whole "keep children home from school" thing is about freaking 16 year olds.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Dauric » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:35 pm UTC

Wheee... Hysteria and Lazy Parenting collide and look at the ride...

Of course being able to teach one's children to be able to analyze opposing viewpoints requires that the parents are actually able to do the task in the first place, but that would put the parents in the position of answering all those questions children have that delightfully get to the underlying reasons for s41t, and the parent's might have to face the fact that their black-and-white ideologically based positions don't hold a lot of water in a world of gray-subtlety and facts.

Of course if the parents can't teach these skills they can always let the schools do it, since we're charging teachers who are outnumbered 40 or 50 to 1 with the ultimate well-being and raising of America's children with more and more parenting tasks since the parents are unable to do it themselves, but we can't possibly have our schools teaching "Critical Thinking" skills because it might be a guise for the commie-socialists to indoctrinate good conservative children...
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:36 pm UTC

lesliesage wrote:
tzvibish wrote:Was this for elementary school students? It seems like it would be way over their heads. I actually don't have a problem with political speeches at High Schools so much, because it's a perfect opportunity for kids that age to start thinking along those lines. Enough HS age children are bright enough to think for themselves that a political speech from the president might actually be productive, regardless of the message.

Edit: I clicked on the link, and it was indeed for HS. Therefore, Obama's speech is a whole different ball game IMO.
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Reading the article I posted might help your confusion. Obama will be speaking at a high school in Virginia, as the article notes. The topic is "stay in school and work hard." It is not a policy speech, it is not a partisan speech, it is not compulsory. This whole "keep children home from school" thing is about freaking 16 year olds.


He's speaking at a HS in Virginia, but schools that aren't necessarily High Schools will be watching it. If it truly is going to be non-political and non-compulsory, then I am 100% behind the president.

And btw, I mean non-compulsory for the schools. If the school decides to show it, I don't see any reason for a requirement for "alternative classes". When you're in school, you follow the rules and go to class. This is no different.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:37 pm UTC

This whole thing makes me imagine someone putting their hands over their heads and singing very loudly.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

Seems to be a rehash of Bush senior's 1991 speech
Politifact wrote:Democrats at the time criticized the speech. "The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students," said Richard Gephardt, then the Democratic majority leader in the House of Representatives.

Republican Newt Gingrich defended Bush's speech, though. "Why is it political for the president of the United States to discuss education?" Gingrich said at the time. "It was done at a nonpolitical site and was beamed to a nonpolitical audience. . . . They wanted to reach the maximum audience with the maximum effect to improve education."

Democrats complained, Republicans defended. If the argument is about the effectiveness of the speech, or the money spent for the broadcast could be put to better use, fine. Legitimate argument, but there won't be enough data to effectively determine a result until after the speech is given.
It was wrong for the Democrats to accuse Bush Sr. of producing a paid political advertisement back then. The Republicans are wrong now for accusing Obama of political indoctrination. On a relative scale, however, I would say that socialist indoctrination is a more incendiary accusation than a paid political advertisement.

Edit: Regarding the compulsory nature of the speech
Dept. of Education wrote:The U.S. Department of Education invites students of all ages, teachers, and administrators to participate in this historic moment by watching the president deliver the address,
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:10 pm UTC

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Mr. N » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:49 pm UTC

The difference is in the way Obama is marketed. He is trumpeted as a savior of sorts, so while it is odd that parents are against having their kids exposed to the president, you can't derisively dismiss their apprehension after watching stuff like this:

Obama Kids singing

(notice the empty brainwashed look on that poor girl's face!)
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby frezik » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:50 pm UTC

When I was in HS, Senator Feingold gave a county town hall meeting in the school theater, and one of my teachers took the class down to see it. I can't think of a more liberal-minded member of the senate to brainwash those poor children.

Somehow, I think a handful of Young Republicans came out of that class, anyway.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Lumpy » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:16 pm UTC

The difference is in the way Obama is marketed. He is trumpeted as a savior of sorts, so while it is odd that parents are against having their kids exposed to the president, you can't derisively dismiss their apprehension after watching stuff like this:

Obama Kids singing

(notice the empty brainwashed look in that poor girl's face!)


Yeah, I get depressed whenever I see kids used for politics by their parents, but you can find that everywhere (for example, Obama and McCain both had campaigns selling onesies with their campaign logos on them).

When I was the age of the kids in the video, my attitude was that whatever the adults were doing, they knew better than me, so I shouldn't spend time caring and concentrate more on studying until I get older. The very last event I remember having heard about, but not doing the research on it to find out more, was Enron. The office of president carried with it the veneer that the issues that the voting populace disagreed on was far less important than the vast amount of values they did agree on, the values of our government and our democracy, that the title, not the person, symbolized. I saw the office of president from a purely civics point of view.

So if I were in class and I were denied an opportunity to see the president give a speech, I would ask, "Why?" because I would expect it to be given from the point of view of an American talking about the importance of being educated in order to get a good job and do your part for the community, and how vital it was to their being elected to the highest office in the land. Aspects of "giving back to your community," when delivered the wrong way, may sound like the kind of things Republicans call "socialism" and "Communism" now days, but when I was in elementary school, that was called "citizenship." An explanation that the president could not be expected to do that without deviating into partisanship would have been a little crushing for me.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Crius » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:20 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:i would just like to point out that Bush Sr. did something like this in 1989 i believe. he talked to children about drugs via tv when the school year began.


noone complained.


Democrats complained when Bush did his broadcast.

The Arcticle wrote:The first President George Bush, a Republican, made a similar nationally broadcast speech from a Washington high school in 1991, urging students to study hard, avoid drugs and to ignore peers “who think it’s not cool to be smart.” Democrats in Congress accused him of using taxpayer money — $27,000 to produce the broadcast — for “paid political advertising.”


The opposition will always complain.

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:54 pm UTC

Crius wrote:The opposition will always complain.


And that pretty much sums up every single political debate in any country, ever.

Well said, Crius.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby fjafjan » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:46 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:
Crius wrote:The opposition will always complain.


And that pretty much sums up every single political debate in any country, ever.

Well said, Crius.

In one sense yes. On the other hand, dismissing all political debates as the opposition complaining is also really fucking retarded. In fact accepting that the opposition complains is not a good policy either, democrats should be embarrassed when they object to sensible republican policy (I mean there ought to be at least SOME), thus preventing partisan bickering, that is never useful.

So yeah, Obama addressing schoolchildren is not in the least controversial, and republicans should be embarrassed when their representatives cry out against this.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby tzvibish » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:54 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:
tzvibish wrote:
Crius wrote:The opposition will always complain.


And that pretty much sums up every single political debate in any country, ever.

Well said, Crius.

In one sense yes. On the other hand, dismissing all political debates as the opposition complaining is also really fucking retarded. In fact accepting that the opposition complains is not a good policy either, democrats should be embarrassed when they object to sensible republican policy (I mean there ought to be at least SOME), thus preventing partisan bickering, that is never useful.

So yeah, Obama addressing schoolchildren is not in the least controversial, and republicans should be embarrassed when their representatives cry out against this.


I didn't mean that it's all complaining. I meant that at the end of the day, there are two political sides for a reason. Because they don't agree with each other. So, coming to a consensus on anything is an extremely rare feat.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:03 pm UTC

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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby JBJ » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:38 pm UTC

Driving home this afternoon, I heard probably the most elegant solution to this whole issue on the radio. I am kicking myself for not thinking of it.

If you are a parent and you are so concerned that Obama is trying to indoctrinate your child, let them watch it at school. Then that same afternoon, sit your child down and watch it with them. I'm sure it will be on YouTube and countless other sites. It will be on CSpan. Set your DVR or VCR to record it. Watch it with them, use the pause button, and point by point tell your child just what is wrong with what he says if you disagree.
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:21 pm UTC

Ok, obviously. But dude, that only works with people who think rationally. You're in America, and you're talking about Texans. Why on EARTH do you think you could get anywhere -- with that kind of logic -- with people who claim Obama is trying to create a brainwashed Nazi youth movement?

If Reason worked, there wouldn't be a conflagration in the first place.

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mikegoo
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby mikegoo » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:03 pm UTC

The district I teach in has ordered teachers to not show the live webcast/broadcast or whatever it is. The district will record the speech and make available to taechers the recordings to view and decide what is approriate for their particular class. Mostly a PR CYA kind of solution, but also relatively reasonable.

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Mr. N
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Mr. N » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:12 pm UTC

The brainwashing is a secondary issue. What they really need to be concerned about is how to answer the smart kid who asks "How come I have to memorize my speeches if that guy can read his off a teleprompter?".
Your momma eats Pop Tarts!

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lesliesage
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

mikegoo wrote:The district I teach in has ordered teachers to not show the live webcast/broadcast or whatever it is. The district will record the speech and make available to teachers the recordings to view and decide what is appropriate for their particular class. Mostly a PR CYA kind of solution, but also relatively reasonable.
Wow. Sure, that's reasonable. It also just reminds me to personally take the moral high ground and listen to those with whom I disagree, and to encourage the same in children despite what my conservative neighbors might be saying. What more can you do?

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Xeio
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Re: Protect children from Obama!

Postby Xeio » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

Mr. N wrote:The brainwashing is a secondary issue. What they really need to be concerned about is how to answer the smart kid who asks "How come I have to memorize my speeches if that guy can read his off a teleprompter?".
Wait, since when do you have to memorize speeches in school? I always had notecards. :mrgreen:


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