Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

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Delass
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Delass » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:35 am UTC

Telchar wrote:Also, can we please stop with the "Well, going to the gas station is dangerous" crap? I have yet to here 1 valid arguement for a 13 year old child being able to sail around the world alone except "obviously her parents weighed the risk and consented. Who are we to argue?" Well, obviously I should be able to throw a 13yr old off a building as long as a plan it for 6 months. I mean, obviously I weighed the risks.


Holy crap telchar, did you not read the thread? There are so many arguments. There are like 3 pages, and no one has made any arguments? You have got to be a troll if you dont see the difference between SAILING A BOAT and MURDER.


New argument, this would have been better on page one or two but whatever. Its about self harm vs self improvement. Everyone knows how you build muscle right? You pretty much tear it, which is extremely risky because if you tear it too much your screwed. Obvious counterargument is obvious; that this trip might be tearing too much. But everyones different. The amount you need to tear varies from person to person. Some people going to the park is enough of a workout, but others are already so strong that you need to do stuff like win the olympics, scale everest, or sail around the world to further improve.

New argument 2: Most of you seem to be thinking of her as a naive child. Well none of us know her, but shes been doing this most of her life. Think of what you're best at. If you were that good at sailing, shed still be a million times better. Not trying to be a dick, this includes me too. Try thinking of her as river tam at the ending of serenity.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Alexius » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:18 pm UTC

Re chase boats and young sailors: 3 years ago the British 14-year-old Michael Perham sailed solo across the Atlantic from Gibraltar to Antigua, becoming the youngest person to do so. The plan was to go non-stop, but he had to put in at Lanzarote and the Cape Verde islands for repairs. The voyage took him from November 18th 2006 to January 3rd 2007- he took 3 weeks off school, then had his Christmas vacation. For this voyage, in the 28ft boat Cheeky Monkey, his father, also an expert sailor, followed him a couple of miles away in another similar yacht and remained in radio contact. So a chase boat is definitely possible.

Perham, incidentally, just took the record for the youngest person to circumnavigate the world solo, finishing 9 months after he started at the age of 17 and 5 months. For this trip, he used a 50ft racing yacht- he is now physically strong enough to manage this larger, faster boat and had the profile to get sponsorship to pay for it- and had no chase boat. He went for the "assisted" record, allowing him to stop for repairs and transit the Panama Canal rather than rounding Cape Horn. He has written a book on his Atlantic crossing, is starting a charity to encourage young people to take up sailing, and plans to compete in the 2012 Olympics.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:49 am UTC

Delass wrote:New argument 2: Most of you seem to be thinking of her as a naive child. Well none of us know her, but shes been doing this most of her life. Think of what you're best at. If you were that good at sailing, shed still be a million times better. Not trying to be a dick, this includes me too. Try thinking of her as river tam at the ending of serenity.


That's a bit of an assumption.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby luketheduke » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:19 am UTC

No worse than assuming the opposite.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Zamfir » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:20 am UTC

luketheduke wrote:No worse than assuming the opposite.


That she isn't River Tam at the end of Serenity?

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby cathrl » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:48 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Dreams can't be packaged up and stored until they're convenient. If you delay for too long, then the original dream changes or goes away. You're forever stuck with a memory of something that you could have and should have done, but - for no reason that can make sense - you did not do. Some people deliberately forget, some convince themselves that their dreams were "childish" (whether or not they were)... some live the rest of their lives as could-have-beens.



Don't be ridiculous. Of course they can! You think Usain Bolt's dreams of winning the Olympics didn't start out years before he actually did so? "Too long" in her case would involve waiting until she's physically incapable of it - i.e. until she's what, seventy?

I started dreaming of going to Oxford a couple of years younger than Laura is now, maybe 4 or 5 years younger. When did I get to go? When I was 18. Did my dream change in the meantime? Yes, actually, it did. I dreamed of studying maths when I was ten, but when it came to it I discovered I liked physics better. I didn't forget, I don't think my dreams were childish, and I strongly object to the suggestion that I am a "could-have-been".

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that a dream which only means something to you if you do it Right Now is far more childish than one which you have stuck with until it is practical or sensible to go for it and which has stood the test of time. At least, any dream which is available at any time so there's no reason not to wait.

That's the point, isn't it? She can do it when she's 16, still break the record, and it be far more sensible and age-appropriate. It's not like there's a window of opportunity and if she doesn't do it now she can never do it, or even that she can't do it until she's too old to set the record. What does she lose by waiting a couple of years? Nothing. What does she gain? Two years of extra maturity and physical strength - which are far from irrelevant given what she wants to do. She can sail round the world later. Right now she should still be preparing to do so.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:12 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:
luketheduke wrote:No worse than assuming the opposite.


That she isn't River Tam at the end of Serenity?


Seems the less likely case.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Delass » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:25 am UTC

Cathrl, as technology improves, the lowest realistic age to attempt this trip would likely decrease, right? Say she does it in two years, at 16. Then someone invents a boat 10 years later thats easier to control, or better sails, etc. Then a 14 or 15 year old does it. See the problem? Theres also more prestige associated with beating the record by 4 years rather than 3 months or whatever. Actually nevermind because of the planned length of her trip, she could only really wait a year or so, as the age that counts is the finished age. Whats going to change in a year? Rather, since someone seems to be nitpicking my posts, What could be expected to change in a year that would warrant a delay?

If a 13 year old was accepted to oxford or harvard, given a scholarship, based on admissions criteria(service, sports, ecs, gpa, rank, sats, IQ, essays, letters of rec, etc. Basically they legitimately got in, and didn't just bribe their way in by building a new wing on the school), then should they be allowed to go?

Seriously avs? Most 13 year olds could tell you that was an allusion, and not meant to be read literally.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby folkhero » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 am UTC

Delass wrote:If a 13 year old was accepted to oxford or harvard, given a scholarship, based on admissions criteria(service, sports, ecs, gpa, rank, sats, IQ, essays, letters of rec, etc. Basically they legitimately got in, and didn't just bribe their way in by building a new wing on the school), then should they be allowed to go?

If said 13 year old would be killed if they failed a class, then I would have some serious doubts about allowing it. The risk of death or grievous bodily harm is central to this discussion, and your analogy seems to miss that aspect entirely.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:31 am UTC

Said young person would've finished their highschool equivalent education at an earlier age as well, wouldn't they?


If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Heavenlytoaster » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:37 am UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?


If he got a padded suit that made him the same size as everyone else (read: boat) then why not?

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:52 am UTC

Heavenlytoaster wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?


If he got a padded suit that made him the same size as everyone else (read: boat) then why not?



Cause they'd still be a fragile kid that would get clobbered and seriously injured when something goes wrong?
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby The Reaper » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:57 am UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:
Heavenlytoaster wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?

If he got a padded suit that made him the same size as everyone else (read: boat) then why not?

Cause they'd still be a fragile kid that would get clobbered and seriously injured when something goes wrong?

Fail on analogy. A single physical ability does not enable a 13yr old kid to play NFL. However, should the analogy be changed to "physically capable and of average or better ability" then I see no reason why a 13yr old can't play NFL, with average NFL ability or better. The same applies to a 13yr old piloting a boat. If she is physically capable and has average or better ability (in this case, presumably much better), I see no reason why she can't be allowed to go around the world.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Elvish Pillager » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:09 am UTC

cathrl wrote:I started dreaming of going to Oxford...

Did you dream of going to Oxford immediately? If not, then it's not the kind of dream I was trying to talk about (and yes, I should have been more specific.) Also, the "some...some...some" construction was not meant to cover the space.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:33 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:
Heavenlytoaster wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?

If he got a padded suit that made him the same size as everyone else (read: boat) then why not?

Cause they'd still be a fragile kid that would get clobbered and seriously injured when something goes wrong?

Fail on analogy. A single physical ability does not enable a 13yr old kid to play NFL. However, should the analogy be changed to "physically capable and of average or better ability" then I see no reason why a 13yr old can't play NFL, with average NFL ability or better. The same applies to a 13yr old piloting a boat. If she is physically capable and has average or better ability (in this case, presumably much better), I see no reason why she can't be allowed to go around the world.



That's one hell of a tough13 year old if she's physically capable of that. I'm not actually doubting her navigational and sailing skills. But sailing the open ocean is VERY physically demanding. Especially for two years on little sleep.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Delass » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:30 pm UTC

folkhero wrote:
Delass wrote:If a 13 year old was accepted to oxford or harvard, given a scholarship, based on admissions criteria(service, sports, ecs, gpa, rank, sats, IQ, essays, letters of rec, etc. Basically they legitimately got in, and didn't just bribe their way in by building a new wing on the school), then should they be allowed to go?

If said 13 year old would be killed if they failed a class, then I would have some serious doubts about allowing it. The risk of death or grievous bodily harm is central to this discussion, and your analogy seems to miss that aspect entirely.

Ever read the Sound and the Fury? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Compson
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el_loco_avs wrote:
The Reaper wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:
Heavenlytoaster wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:If a 13 year old kid was really good at throwing balls, should he be allowed into the NFL too?

If he got a padded suit that made him the same size as everyone else (read: boat) then why not?

Cause they'd still be a fragile kid that would get clobbered and seriously injured when something goes wrong?

Fail on analogy. A single physical ability does not enable a 13yr old kid to play NFL. However, should the analogy be changed to "physically capable and of average or better ability" then I see no reason why a 13yr old can't play NFL, with average NFL ability or better. The same applies to a 13yr old piloting a boat. If she is physically capable and has average or better ability (in this case, presumably much better), I see no reason why she can't be allowed to go around the world.



That's one hell of a tough13 year old if she's physically capable of that. I'm not actually doubting her navigational and sailing skills. But sailing the open ocean is VERY physically demanding. Especially for two years on little sleep.


HOLY CRAP! EXACTLY! YES! She quite likely is one hell of a tough 13 year old. Shes had a boat since she was 6, and has been solo sailing since she was 12.

That was my point with the allusion to river tam. You still seem think all young people are wimps or something. Did you miss this post?
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Or Dimitrios Loundras, who won a bronze medal when he was 10...Oh, and he later became an admiral in the greek navy, so obviously whatever he missed while winning olympic medals didnt stop him from having a successful life.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Zamfir » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

But Delass, the relevant question isn't whether she is a good sailor compared to average sailors, but if she is a good sailor compared to people who attempt solo ocean crossings. For most of those people have been, sailing has been their main activity since they were 6. That's the standard, not some exception. And many do not try ocean crossings, because it is still dangeous, no matter what your skill is.

The point is, saying that it is just as dangerous for her as for more experienced, physically stronger sailors is already a stretch. But even if it no more dangerous for her as for others, it is still very dangerous.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Delass » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:54 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:But Delass, the relevant question isn't whether she is a good sailor compared to average sailors, but if she is a good sailor compared to people who attempt solo ocean crossings. For most of those people have been, sailing has been their main activity since they were 6. That's the standard, not some exception. And many do not try ocean crossings, because it is still dangeous, no matter what your skill is.

The point is, saying that it is just as dangerous for her as for more experienced, physically stronger sailors is already a stretch. But even if it no more dangerous for her as for others, it is still very dangerous.

Im not saying its not dangerous, im saying shes likely capable of handling the danger. Of course the only people that could know that are her and her parents. As they think she is, how would a third party such as you me or the courts prove otherwise?

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Zamfir » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:19 am UTC

The mother of the girl just gave an interview to a newspaper saying she does not support the trip, suspects the father has been pushing his daughter for years into it, and that while her daughter is definitely a good sailor, she doesn't think she is mature enough for the stresses and fatigue of the trip. Also, she likes a living daughter better than a dead one.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:43 am UTC

Ding ding ding.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Delass » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:42 pm UTC

Ok, that obviously slightly changes things. But I have to wonder if this is ordinary motherly worrying that happens whenever a child does something, ie first drives, goes off to college, etc. or a rational assessment.
Heres the article I found: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 122D61.DTL
Nothing about her father pressuring her into it.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Freakish » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:05 pm UTC

"If it were up to me, Laura wouldn't go," Muller told the paper.

"She can sail like the devil, that's not the problem," she said. But Laura "is not yet grown up."


Mother doesn't want her to go.

/thread
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:09 am UTC

"Give up here?"
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:22 am UTC

Freakish wrote:Mother doesn't want her to go.

/thread
Pretty much.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:08 am UTC



Heh. She had been sailing since she was 8 years old and didn't make it 24 hours...

Probably just bad luck though.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:02 am UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:


Heh. She had been sailing since she was 8 years old and didn't make it 24 hours...

Probably just bad luck though.


Indeed. She was also entirely alright and the article suggests it was the other ship's fault.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby cathrl » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:20 pm UTC

Well, that wins today's "huh?" award.

She contacted the ship on radio? Why the hell didn't she just alter course so she didn't hit it? She's in a poky little sailing yacht, it's hardly difficult - and in a "busy shipping lane", surely it had occurred to her that there might be ships around?

And yes, I do know how to sail.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:50 pm UTC

Apparantly rules dictate that the powered ship gives way to the sailboat. But a large ship will take miiiiiiiiiles to stop, so in practice this doesn't happen at all and the sailer will have to avoid the collision.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Zamfir » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:08 pm UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:Apparantly rules dictate that the powered ship gives way to the sailboat. But a large ship will take miiiiiiiiiles to stop, so in practice this doesn't happen at all and the sailer will have to avoid the collision.

I thought the general rule was large and professional ships>sailing boats> other motored boats, for exactly that reason.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby luketheduke » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

I thought the general rule was "the more maneuverable craft has to change course"... but I guess that would make too much sense. :mrgreen:
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby GoC » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:07 pm UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:2 years without real social contact during a very important stage in development. Apparantly she intends to follow school through the internet or something.

I grew up with mostly the internet for social interaction, there's no reason she couldn't do the same and catch up later. And anyway, most of the social interaction rules learnt at that age will soon be obsolete. The rules for interaction change startlingly quickly and are much more flexible when an adult than when in school.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:Apparantly rules dictate that the powered ship gives way to the sailboat. But a large ship will take miiiiiiiiiles to stop, so in practice this doesn't happen at all and the sailer will have to avoid the collision.

I thought the general rule was large and professional ships>sailing boats> other motored boats, for exactly that reason.

Spoiler:
International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea ... wrote:18. Responsibilities Between Vessels
Except in narrow channels, traffic schemes, and when overtaking (i.e. rules 9, 10, and 13)
A power-driven vessel must give way to:
NUC a vessel not under command;
CBD a vessel constrained by draft
RAM a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver;
Fish a vessel engaged in fishing;
Sail a sailing vessel.
A sailing vessel must give way to:
NUC a vessel not under command;
CBD a vessel constrained by draft
RAM a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver;
Fish a vessel engaged in fishing.
A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:
NUC a vessel not under command;
CBD a vessel constrained by draft
RAM a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.
A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular caution having full regard to her special condition.
A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

And, to clarify that the cargo ship was likely not a "vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre":
(g) The term “vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:
  • (i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
  • (ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
  • (iii) a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
  • (iv) a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
  • (v) a vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
  • (vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.

Unless the cargo ship was restricted by draft (couldn't make a turn because it had to stay in a narrow section of deep-enough water), or the shipping lane is governed by separate regulations, the sailing vessel had right of way. Of course, physics doesn't much care for right-of-way, so it probably would have been a good idea to steer around the big ship anyway.

I thought the general rule was "the more maneuverable craft has to change course"... but I guess that would make too much sense.

That's the smart way to think, but I believe that in this specific case, the more agile craft had the right of way. Still, its kind of like when you're driving and a car pulls out from a side-street in front of you...you have the right of way, but you still shift lanes or slow down so that you don't run into that car. The law is on your side, but the laws of physics say that you're both screwed if you don't take action.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby johnny_7713 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:07 am UTC

For those who are interested in the outcome of this case: Last week the court ruled that Laura Dekker should no longer be placed under the supervision of child protection, i.e. she's free to start her trip. Child protection has announced they will not appeal the ruling. I've read that Laura was found to be physically and psycically capable of making the trip and that it would not interfere unacceptably with her schooling (since she will be taking the 'Wereld School' distance learning program), though I'm not sure who made that statement. Today she left for Portugal together with her father. From Portugal she will start the round the world trip after the end of the hurricane season.

Edit: Since I'm already raising this thread, I'd like to respond to the discussion of shipping rules above that in Dutch inland waters (rivers, lakes, canals, etc) there is a distinction between 'small' and 'large' vessels. Small sailing vessels (e.g. yachts) do not have right of way over large motor vessels (e.g. container ships, or large barges). Possibly the international rules that apply on the open sea also contain such a distinction, not that they have a hope of avoiding you anyway.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby MicroRose » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:01 am UTC

I don´t think this is an issue about her not learning, surely there will be enough time in the day for her to do some studying. She will probably do more than a lot of her peers!!! She will have less interuptions (minus the pirates) and essentially will be working harder. I think the sense of adventure, and obvious determination is amazing for someone aged 13. Good for her I say, go get em.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:50 am UTC

Awesome News! Good luck to Miss Dekker!
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby johnny_7713 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:15 pm UTC

MicroRose wrote:I don´t think this is an issue about her not learning, surely there will be enough time in the day for her to do some studying. She will probably do more than a lot of her peers!!! She will have less interuptions (minus the pirates) and essentially will be working harder. I think the sense of adventure, and obvious determination is amazing for someone aged 13. Good for her I say, go get em.


Learning was never the main issue, although it did come up. There is a distance learning program called 'Wereld School [World School]' set up in Holland for children that go on long journeys such as this (though typically accompanied by their adults) participation in which fulfills ones compulsory education requirements. The reason ms. Dekker was made a ward of the court was so that the court could evaluate whether she was psychologically capable of making the journey and to make sure she hadn't been pressured into it by her father.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby el_loco_avs » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:05 pm UTC

johnny_7713 wrote:
MicroRose wrote:I don´t think this is an issue about her not learning, surely there will be enough time in the day for her to do some studying. She will probably do more than a lot of her peers!!! She will have less interuptions (minus the pirates) and essentially will be working harder. I think the sense of adventure, and obvious determination is amazing for someone aged 13. Good for her I say, go get em.


Learning was never the main issue, although it did come up. There is a distance learning program called 'Wereld School [World School]' set up in Holland for children that go on long journeys such as this (though typically accompanied by their adults) participation in which fulfills ones compulsory education requirements. The reason ms. Dekker was made a ward of the court was so that the court could evaluate whether she was psychologically capable of making the journey and to make sure she hadn't been pressured into it by her father.


Yeah i remember reading this the other week. They were concerned about the pressure especially considering the strained relationship between the parent.

I think the court did express a reluctance. They were not convinced there was no risk for Laura's social and psychological development, but because of the parent's unwillingness to cooperate a continuation of the evaluations while Laura was a ward of the court was pointless. Also they seemed to make a point of putting the responsibility (and there for consequences?) of the trip on Laura's parents.

One result was that she got a newer bigger boat to travel in though.

She departed today btw.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby electriczap4 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:56 am UTC

Plain and simple, the second she gets 7 miles out to sea she can tell every country there is to go forth and have sexual intercourse with themselves. International waters do have an advantage =]. Plus it's not like she will have no contact, if something goes wrong, she WILL be able to contact people.

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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby Kyrn » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:07 am UTC

electriczap4 wrote:Plain and simple, the second she gets 7 miles out to sea she can tell every country there is to go forth and have sexual intercourse with themselves. International waters do have an advantage =]. Plus it's not like she will have no contact, if something goes wrong, she WILL be able to contact people.

Depends on what sort of "wrong" happens, of course. People have practically disappeared in sailing incidents.
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Re: Dutch court case to stop 13 year old's solo yacht trip

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:16 am UTC

Kyrn wrote:
electriczap4 wrote:Plain and simple, the second she gets 7 miles out to sea she can tell every country there is to go forth and have sexual intercourse with themselves. International waters do have an advantage =]. Plus it's not like she will have no contact, if something goes wrong, she WILL be able to contact people.

Depends on what sort of "wrong" happens, of course. People have practically disappeared in sailing incidents.

Following the invention of the PLB there's no excuse for going missing at sea.
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