Any improvements to this diet?

The Food Forum's Evil Twin. Trying to lose weight or get in shape? Tips, encouragement, status reports, and so forth go here.
Disclaimer: Unless otherwise stated, we are not health professionals. Take advice with salt.

Moderators: Mighty Jalapeno, Moderators General, Prelates

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:07 am UTC

I've recently sworn to get in better shape, so I've tried to put together a diet for myself that's healthy first and foremost, but also delicious and not too complicated (otherwise I know I won't stick to it). Could I make any improvements to the following?

Monday
Breakfast – Omelette (egg, capsicum, onion, chilli), toast, glasses of milk
Lunch – Sandwiches (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, turkey or chicken)
Dinner – Steak, potatoes, carrots

Tuesday
Breakfast – Muesli,banana
Lunch – Sandwiches (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, turkey or chicken)
Dinner – Salmon, garden salad (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, capsicum, Italian dressing)

Wednesday
Breakfast – Scrambled eggs, toast, glasses of milk
Lunch – Sandwiches (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, turkey or chicken)
Dinner – Stirfry (rice, red capsicum, green capsicum, onion, cubed chicken, sauce)

Thursday
Breakfast –Muesli, banana
Lunch – Sandwiches (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, turkey or chicken)
Dinner – Pork, apple sauce, garden salad (lettuce, snowpeas, cucumber, onion, Italian dressing)

Friday
Breakfast – Omelette (egg, capsicum, onion, chilli), toast, glass of milk
Lunch – Sandwiches (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, turkey or chicken)
Dinner – Ravioli, pasta sauce

Saturday
Breakfast – Muesli, banana
Lunch – Subway or similar (cheese, bacon, roast beef, lettuce, onion, cucumber, capsicum, jalapeno, BBQ sauce)
Dinner – Home made sushi (salmon, cucumber), soy sauce, pickled ginger

Sunday
Breakfast – Big Daddy (fried eggs, thick toast, sausages, mushrooms, hash browns), glass of fresh OJ
Lunch – Anything you want that’s in the fridge :D
Dinner – Anything you want that’s in the fridge :D

Note:
I know some of the food on there might not be optimal (especially Sundays), but otherwise I don't think I'd stick to the diet.
I'm still in school, which is why Mon-Fri lunches are the same, and easily replicable. Wholegrain bread, of course.

User avatar
poxic
Eloquently Prismatic
Posts: 4751
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:28 am UTC
Location: Left coast of Canada

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby poxic » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:20 am UTC

Try working in some more nutritious veggies -- spinach, broccoli, kale, sprouts, that sort of thing. Dark green stuff. Also swap in a sweet potato/yam for the regular potato sometimes.

Add some more fruit. Oranges, apples, berries, whatever is kicking around, as snacks or with lunch/dinner.

Throw in some beans now and then. Tinned are fine if you can't be bothered to soak and cook dried ones. Lots of fibre and nutrients.

Otherwise, your menu isn't looking too bad. You'll want to change it up now and then to keep from getting bored, and a "day off" (Sunday) can be a good idea. It will slow down your weight loss a bit but it might be a good trade-off if it'll keep you in line for the rest of the week.

Edit: gaining weight? OK, same advice, just more of it. :)
Last edited by poxic on Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:41 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
A man who is 'ill-adjusted' to the world is always on the verge of finding himself. One who is adjusted to the world never finds himself, but gets to be a cabinet minister.
- Hermann Hesse, novelist, poet, Nobel laureate (2 Jul 1877-1962)

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:27 am UTC

I was actually thinking of gaining weight - I'm a twig. Would this diet be insufficient, then?

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:36 am UTC

Whether you gain or lose weight depends mostly on how much you eat (though of course some foods are more calorie-dense than others). You can gain weight on the above diet, if your portions are large enough. A reasonable goal is a couple hundred more calories than you need to maintain your weight. You might also want to consider some strength training to make sure your new weight is reasonably muscular, though you'll need to increase your portions even more if you do that.

Also, consider healthy snacks in between meals. Cheese, nuts, that sort of thing.

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:46 am UTC

Nath wrote:You might also want to consider some strength training to make sure your new weight is reasonably muscular, though you'll need to increase your portions even more if you do that.

I was considering gym every three days, and interval training the day before gym. That's worked fairly well for one of my mates (who's physique was fairly similar to mine as it is now). Would this be a good plan?

Also, consider healthy snacks in between meals. Cheese, nuts, that sort of thing.

The reason why I allowed myself to eat 'whatever' on Sunday is because if I follow this diet, my fridge should be healthily stocked, and any snack I have would hence be healthy. Should I add cheese and nuts to my meals? I'm cautious of buying foods only for their value as snacks, else that may end up being all I eat (I have a penchant for large snacks), which would take away from my other meals.

poxic wrote:Add some more fruit. Oranges, apples, berries, whatever is kicking around, as snacks or with lunch/dinner.

I replaced Friday's breakfast with fruit salad and toast. That way fruit is a main meal, and I'll always have some fruit in my fridge to snack on.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:27 am UTC

+ranslucent wrote:I was considering gym every three days, and interval training the day before gym. That's worked fairly well for one of my mates (who's physique was fairly similar to mine as it is now). Would this be a good plan?

Depends on what you do at the gym.

+ranslucent wrote:The reason why I allowed myself to eat 'whatever' on Sunday is because if I follow this diet, my fridge should be healthily stocked, and any snack I have would hence be healthy. Should I add cheese and nuts to my meals? I'm cautious of buying foods only for their value as snacks, else that may end up being all I eat (I have a penchant for large snacks), which would take away from my other meals.

I suggested snacking because most people get hungry between lunch and dinner, and being hungry is not ideal if you're trying to gain weight. If your meals are large enough and close enough together that this isn't an issue, then don't worry about it.

The one worrying thing about this diet is that it's planned out to the smallest detail. It's hard to come up with a short list of foods containing all the nutrients we need for good health; this is why people recommend a varied diet. Perhaps you could generalize the above plan by replacing 'bananas' with fruit, 'capsicum' with 'vegetables' and so on.

poohat
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby poohat » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:24 pm UTC

Diet is shit, you need to eat a lot more (even if youre trying to lose fat) unless youre a 110lb girl - I reckon theres 1200 calories a day there tops. You also need a lot more protein, and to start a good weight training routine.

Youve bought into the dumb HEALTH FOOD trend that is going to make you have the physique of a skinnyfat marathon runner. Eat a lot more meat.

edit: just saw youre trying to gain weight, in which case your diet is even worse. You want at least 2500 calories a day, probably closer to 3000. I doubt youre even getting half that, and nowhere near enough proetin. Getting 'healthy food' is nice but not particularly important - what matters more is your overall calorie/protein intake. The reason why 'bad' food is 'bad' is because people eat too much of it, not because theres anything intrinsic to a hamburger that makes it worse than a bowl of museli.

psyck0
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby psyck0 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:44 pm UTC

Honestly, if you're trying to gain weight, eat anything you want and as much of it as you can (and get your ass on a GOOD weight-lifting program like starting strength, and none of this cardio crap). Lots of protein, healthy fat and complex carbs. Keep the simple carbs down and minimize trans fats because they are awful.

Most people don't eat enough when they want to gain weight. It can be HARD to eat enough. You should feel FULL. Also, your breakfasts are crap- omlette AND banana AND muesli AND something else is more like it. Basically, eat as much as you think you should, then eat two more things.

Also, lots and lots of milk helps. LOTS of milk. Milk coming out of your ears.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:56 pm UTC

poohat wrote:Diet is shit, you need to eat a lot more (even if youre trying to lose fat) unless youre a 110lb girl - I reckon theres 1200 calories a day there tops. You also need a lot more protein, and to start a good weight training routine.

Youve bought into the dumb HEALTH FOOD trend that is going to make you have the physique of a skinnyfat marathon runner. Eat a lot more meat.

edit: just saw youre trying to gain weight, in which case your diet is even worse. You want at least 2500 calories a day, probably closer to 3000. I doubt youre even getting half that, and nowhere near enough proetin. Getting 'healthy food' is nice but not particularly important - what matters more is your overall calorie/protein intake. The reason why 'bad' food is 'bad' is because people eat too much of it, not because theres anything intrinsic to a hamburger that makes it worse than a bowl of museli.

How do you know how many calories he's getting if he hasn't reported quantities? For all you know, those are twelve-egg omelettes and three-cow steaks. 'Healthy' food is in fact, healthier than junk food. It's difficult to eat enough of it to gain weight, but that is the ideal way to go about it.

poohat
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby poohat » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:00 am UTC

Nath wrote:How do you know how many calories he's getting if he hasn't reported quantities? For all you know, those are twelve-egg omelettes and three-cow steaks.
Yeah they might be, but we both know they arent.

'Health' food might be better when it comes to general health, but for weight gain its all pretty much the same (within reason, obviously I'm not saying you should live off chocolate and icecream). The problem is that what most people consider a healthy diet (lots of carbs, inadequate protein, avoiding red meat, undereating) isnt too great when it comes to gaining muscle/losing fat.
Last edited by poohat on Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:06 am UTC

Yeah, they're probably not. My point is that the recommendation should be to increase portion sizes of healthy foods, rather than trying to maximize calories at any cost. If you're a casual powerlifter who needs 6000 calories, you might need to eat some junk food to get there, but that's not ideal.

EDIT: dang, your post keeps changing :). I agree that there are some popular misconceptions about healthy food (e.g. lots of starch, low protein) but most peoples' ideas of healthy food are not that far off. A lot of the foods that people consider healthy are, in fact. It's just a matter of adjusting portions and proportions to meet your needs.

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:49 am UTC

poohat wrote:Diet is shit, you need to eat a lot more (even if youre trying to lose fat) unless youre a 110lb girl - I reckon theres 1200 calories a day there tops. You also need a lot more protein, and to start a good weight training routine.

Youve bought into the dumb HEALTH FOOD trend that is going to make you have the physique of a skinnyfat marathon runner. Eat a lot more meat.

edit: just saw youre trying to gain weight, in which case your diet is even worse. You want at least 2500 calories a day, probably closer to 3000. I doubt youre even getting half that, and nowhere near enough proetin. Getting 'healthy food' is nice but not particularly important - what matters more is your overall calorie/protein intake. The reason why 'bad' food is 'bad' is because people eat too much of it, not because theres anything intrinsic to a hamburger that makes it worse than a bowl of museli.



Close - I'm about a 130lb male. And thanks for your advice - I'll try boost up the portions, but I don't want to go down the road of eating unhealthily simply because it'll gain me weight faster. That diet there is actually quite a bit more than I need to maintain my current weight - I don't eat very much at all.

poohat
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby poohat » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:14 pm UTC

If yourre a 130lb male you should be eating everything you see, perhaps including stray animals in the street

User avatar
spudtheimpaler
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:57 am UTC
Location: München

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby spudtheimpaler » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:00 pm UTC

poohat wrote:...perhaps including stray animals in the street

And still potentially healthier than what you'll get from a fast-food place...
Fueled by tea and bad maths since 1983...

User avatar
ice__101
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:28 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby ice__101 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:38 pm UTC

Just wondering. Are you planning on drinking a protein shake during this diet. That would be a very easy way to up your calorie count a good bit and also make better use of your time at the gym.

psyck0
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby psyck0 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:01 pm UTC

+ranslucent wrote:
poohat wrote:Diet is shit, you need to eat a lot more (even if youre trying to lose fat) unless youre a 110lb girl - I reckon theres 1200 calories a day there tops. You also need a lot more protein, and to start a good weight training routine.

Youve bought into the dumb HEALTH FOOD trend that is going to make you have the physique of a skinnyfat marathon runner. Eat a lot more meat.

edit: just saw youre trying to gain weight, in which case your diet is even worse. You want at least 2500 calories a day, probably closer to 3000. I doubt youre even getting half that, and nowhere near enough proetin. Getting 'healthy food' is nice but not particularly important - what matters more is your overall calorie/protein intake. The reason why 'bad' food is 'bad' is because people eat too much of it, not because theres anything intrinsic to a hamburger that makes it worse than a bowl of museli.



Close - I'm about a 130lb male. And thanks for your advice - I'll try boost up the portions, but I don't want to go down the road of eating unhealthily simply because it'll gain me weight faster. That diet there is actually quite a bit more than I need to maintain my current weight - I don't eat very much at all.


No one is telling you to eat junk food. We're just saying don't bother avoiding it, because it won't hurt you, you lucky bugger.

Like I said, eat as much as you think you should, then eat two more things. Everyone underestimates how much they need to eat to gain weight.

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:16 am UTC

ice__101 wrote:Just wondering. Are you planning on drinking a protein shake during this diet. That would be a very easy way to up your calorie count a good bit and also make better use of your time at the gym.


Hadn't thought of one. Care to explain how I should make one and when I should drink it?

psyck0 wrote:No one is telling you to eat junk food. We're just saying don't bother avoiding it, because it won't hurt you, you lucky bugger.

Like I said, eat as much as you think you should, then eat two more things. Everyone underestimates how much they need to eat to gain weight.


Okay, thank you. :)

psyck0
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby psyck0 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

1) Buy protein (buy whey concentrate not isolate, don't spend too much money, it's all the same except for flavour)
2) Mix with milk and maybe fruit or anything else you want
3) Eat

User avatar
justaman
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 am UTC
Location: in ur walls eatin' ur internets

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby justaman » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:48 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:No one is telling you to eat junk food. We're just saying don't bother avoiding it, because it won't hurt you, you lucky bugger.

Actually, no, it's not the calories that are often of concern, it is the saturated fat and salt content of a lot of these foods that are the issue for most people, you can be extremely skinny and still have high risk of a heart attack through cholesterol plaques. In fact (source is a cardiac physiologist, who my SO worked with) fit, healthy people who have cholesterol problems are actually at greater risk of dying of heart attacks due to the lack of arterial proliferation around the heart commonly seen in obese people as their arteries narrow.

Moral of the story: Bad food is Bad. Staying away from salt and saturated fat= Good
Felstaff wrote:"deglove"? I think you may have just conjured the sickest image within my mind since I heard the term "testicle pop".

Victoria Maddison
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 10:01 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Victoria Maddison » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:35 am UTC

It's trans fats that are highly atherosclerotic. There's no proof that animal sources of saturated fat are harmful. Breast milk is 40-50% saturated fat and high in cholesterol, both essential for growth, they don't suddenly become poison when you hit 1-2 years of age. Things are more complex than that.

P.S. Strong hearts reduce the likelihood of heart attacks in those with aortic plaque because they can better pump blood through restricted arteries.
Last edited by Victoria Maddison on Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:29 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

shocklocks
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby shocklocks » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:21 am UTC

Moral of the story: Bad food is Bad. Staying away from salt and saturated fat= Good


Oh dear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbFQc2kxm9c&feature=player_embedded

User avatar
spudtheimpaler
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:57 am UTC
Location: München

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby spudtheimpaler » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:41 am UTC

shocklocks wrote:
Moral of the story: Bad food is Bad. Staying away from salt and saturated fat= Good


Oh dear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbFQc2kxm9c&feature=player_embedded

Could you give a short summary for those of us who can't view youtube? :) (Spoilered if you wanna keep us guessing)
Fueled by tea and bad maths since 1983...

psyck0
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby psyck0 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:59 pm UTC

Yes, because I was clearly telling him to go eat every bag of chips he sees...

Saturated fats aren't that bad, dietary cholesterol does not correlate with blood cholesterol and salt... yeah, salt isn't great.

User avatar
ice__101
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:28 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby ice__101 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:01 pm UTC

+ranslucent wrote:
ice__101 wrote:Just wondering. Are you planning on drinking a protein shake during this diet. That would be a very easy way to up your calorie count a good bit and also make better use of your time at the gym.


Hadn't thought of one. Care to explain how I should make one and when I should drink it?



The simple answer is just to purchase the powder and mix it with milk/water. But that can get kinda boring after a while. There are plenty of recipes on-line, or you can just get a blender and get creative. Personally, I take some vanilla flavored powder, add some cocoa and instant coffee.

As for good times to drink it: if you are working out, directly afterwards would be a great time. Other than that, I like to take mine as soon as I get to work because the caffeine gives me a good boost to start the day. It is also a good thing to have around in case life gets in the way of your plan and you don't have time to prepare/eat your planned meal.

One other thing to note. Make sure it's a decent quality shake. Drinking a horrible tasting protein shake is pretty rough. I personally use Optimum Nutrition.

Also: This Men's Health forum post has some good ideas.

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9991056124/m/662106093

User avatar
justaman
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 am UTC
Location: in ur walls eatin' ur internets

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby justaman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:32 am UTC

Victoria Maddison wrote:It's trans fats that are highly atherosclerotic. There's no proof that animal sources of saturated fat are harmful. Breast milk is 40-50% saturated fat and high in cholesterol, both essential for growth, they don't suddenly become poison when you hit 1-2 years of age. Things are more complex than that.

P.S. Strong hearts reduce the likelihood of heart attacks in those with aortic plaque because they can better pump blood through restricted arteries.

Shit, I had saturated and unsaturated around the wrong way (in terms of chemical structure) in my head, I was meaning unsaturated (the ones with the double bonds). Of course the situation is never as simple as it is made out to be, but dosage plays a part in most things... there is a saying "there's no such thing as a poison, just dosage". For instance atropine is a poison, not very lethal but it can kill you, yet small amounts are used in eye surgery to dilate the pupil. It is highly likely (actually certain) that some intake of fats and cholesterol is good for you, but taking in too much will be bad and that the amounts that are good/bad for you will change with age, race, sex, job,... just about everything. I guess that I am preaching to the converted here, though so I won't go on.
I just found several papers that say that dietary changes should lead to an approx 10% reduction in serum cholesterol and reduce the risk of ischemic heart disease by something like 50% for a 40 year old and 20% for a 70 year old. Data based on large population data sets.
True, strong hearts do pump stronger, but apparently plaques can detach from the artery wall, or cause blood clots to form that break away from the wall, suddenly closing the artery... in these cases people with a fatty, partly occluded heart usually have much arterial proliferation around the normal main artery, which allows some blood to bypass the blockage, leading to less ischemia. Still not good, and overweight people are still more likely to die from heart disease, but obesity seems to be slightly protective in some subset of cases (not that I have any numbers for it, just word of mouth).

psyck0 wrote:Yes, because I was clearly telling him to go eat every bag of chips he sees...
Saturated fats aren't that bad, dietary cholesterol does not correlate with blood cholesterol and salt... yeah, salt isn't great.

I was just saying (though I suppose I could have spelled it out) that he's better off not eating fast food, 'cause people overdo it, even with the best of intentions - case in point the "subway diet" or McD's "healthy options" which contain more fat than a burger.
Felstaff wrote:"deglove"? I think you may have just conjured the sickest image within my mind since I heard the term "testicle pop".

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:05 am UTC

justaman wrote:Shit, I had saturated and unsaturated around the wrong way (in terms of chemical structure) in my head, I was meaning unsaturated (the ones with the double bonds).

Huh? You were right (or, at least, closer to the conventional wisdom) the first time. Saturated fats are the ones usually associated with heart disease, though people have recently been calling this into question.

justaman wrote:I just found several papers that say that dietary changes should lead to an approx 10% reduction in serum cholesterol and reduce the risk of ischemic heart disease by something like 50% for a 40 year old and 20% for a 70 year old. Data based on large population data sets.

What sort of dietary changes, specifically?

User avatar
justaman
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 am UTC
Location: in ur walls eatin' ur internets

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby justaman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:52 am UTC

Nath wrote:
justaman wrote:Shit, I had saturated and unsaturated around the wrong way (in terms of chemical structure) in my head, I was meaning unsaturated (the ones with the double bonds).

Huh? You were right (or, at least, closer to the conventional wisdom) the first time. Saturated fats are the ones usually associated with heart disease, though people have recently been calling this into question.
The trans fat (unsaturated, now that I am getting them the right way around) thing seems to be the problem more than saturated, despite conventional wisdom. I suspect my initial confusion came from knowing the saturated fat=bad, but also knowing that double bonds=bad.

Nath wrote:
justaman wrote:I just found several papers that say that dietary changes should lead to an approx 10% reduction in serum cholesterol and reduce the risk of ischemic heart disease by something like 50% for a 40 year old and 20% for a 70 year old. Data based on large population data sets.

What sort of dietary changes, specifically?

Unfortunately the papers didn't really specify other than an overall reduction in fat intake.

edited to fix quotes.
Felstaff wrote:"deglove"? I think you may have just conjured the sickest image within my mind since I heard the term "testicle pop".

Victoria Maddison
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 10:01 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Victoria Maddison » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:08 am UTC

justaman wrote:It is highly likely (actually certain) that some intake of fats and cholesterol is good for you, but taking in too much will be bad

And too much carbohydrate is responsible for hyperinsulinism, glucose intolerance, hypertriglyceredemia, hypertension, obesity, diabetes, and more. But people don't seem to care about these serious and potentially fatal diseases because the word carbohydrate gives them the warm fuzzies where as the words fat/cholesterol are tainted in their minds. If people only knew how vital cholesterol was in their development they wouldn't think it was something bad, they'd think of it as something essential to life, which it is. Keeping your cholesterol in the healthy range is no different to keeping your blood sugar in the healthy range. It's common sense.

Also I find it interesting that polyunsaturated fats lower cholesterol but if you look at the composition of arterial plaque it's primarily composed of unsaturated fats, and in particular polyunsaturated fats, not the saturated fats people seem to be so concerned about[1].

justaman wrote:I just found several papers that say that dietary changes should lead to an approx 10% reduction in serum cholesterol and reduce the risk of ischemic heart disease by something like 50% for a 40 year old and 20% for a 70 year old. Data based on large population data sets.

According to my copy of Chemical and Functional Properties of Food Lipids (Sikorski & Kolakowska) "A single fish meal per week reduces the risk of sudden death by 52% and the risk of cardiac arrest due to vascular occlusive disease by 70%. This represents the lowest recommended intake of fish. A 2-week diet containing three fish meals per week reduced serum levels of triglycerides, cholesterol, and LDL-cholesterol by 30, 15, and 15%, respectively ( Kolakowska and Grala, 2001e). [2]" Which was from a larger passage on the effects of n-3 fatty acids on the human body. So if you're looking to have a considerable positive impact on your health then pop down to the pharmacy and pick up some n-3 (EPA & DHA) capsules. The typical American diet is grossly deficient anyway.

justaman wrote:he's better off not eating fast food, 'cause people overdo it, even with the best of intentions - case in point the "subway diet" or McD's "healthy options" which contain more fat than a burger.

justaman wrote:I guess that I am preaching to the converted here, though so I won't go on.

I agree with you that a healthy diet should be composed of plants and animals without all that processed junk in it. However when it comes to bulking, and this kid needs to put on 100 lbs, it won't do him any long term harm to stuff his face with a dirty meal once a week for the duration, no matter how much he eats in the sitting.

[1] Dietary Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids and Composition of Human Aortic Plaques, C. Felton, D. Crook, M. Davies, M. Oliver, Lancet, 334, 1195, 1994.
[2] Kolakowska, A. and Grala, A., 2001e, The effects of 2-week diet with lean or fatty fish on plasma lipid and lipoproteins level, Folia Univ. Agric. Stetin. Scienta Alimentaria

User avatar
justaman
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 am UTC
Location: in ur walls eatin' ur internets

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby justaman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:44 am UTC

Victoria Maddison wrote:lots of stuff
I bow to your extensive knowledge.

Victoria Maddison wrote:
justaman wrote:he's better off not eating fast food, 'cause people overdo it, even with the best of intentions - case in point the "subway diet" or McD's "healthy options" which contain more fat than a burger.

justaman wrote:I guess that I am preaching to the converted here, though so I won't go on.

I agree with you that a healthy diet should be composed of plants and animals without all that processed junk in it. However when it comes to bulking, and this kid needs to put on 100 lbs, it won't do him any long term harm to stuff his face with a dirty meal once a week for the duration, no matter how much he eats in the sitting.
Sure, I'm not disagreeing at all, just kind of getting off topic I suppose, by saying that people are often mislead by advertising and mis-information into thinking that some things are healthy, when they aren't. I recall seeing a documentary a while ago which had something to do with weight loss by overweight people, and seeing one of the people interviewed crying because they couldn't afford to do the subway diet like the guy on the ads (actually I think they had gone to one of his "talks"), as though subway was their only option for healthy food.

Anyway, back on topic... The OP should eat a lot of food, making sure that he has a balanced diet with quite a lot of protein for building muscle mass.

Edited to add: sorry for the big diversion folks!
Felstaff wrote:"deglove"? I think you may have just conjured the sickest image within my mind since I heard the term "testicle pop".

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:15 am UTC

justaman wrote:The trans fat (unsaturated, now that I am getting them the right way around) thing seems to be the problem more than saturated, despite conventional wisdom. I suspect my initial confusion came from knowing the saturated fat=bad, but also knowing that double bonds=bad.

Oh, trans fats are almost universally acknowledged to be bad for you (or, at least, ones in partially hydrogenated fats). Yes, they are unsaturated fats, but generally when people talk about unsaturated fats I think about cis-unsaturated fats, which are far more widespread in things that haven't been hydrogenated. The debate in my mind is cis fats vs saturated fats.

Victoria Maddison wrote:But people don't seem to care about these serious and potentially fatal diseases because the word carbohydrate gives them the warm fuzzies where as the words fat/cholesterol are tainted in their minds.

Is this still true? After all the low carb/Atkins hype, my impression is that most people now see carbs as evil just as they see fat as evil. They still eat plenty of both, but they feel guiltier about it.

shocklocks
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby shocklocks » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:18 am UTC

I recall seeing a documentary a while ago which had something to do with weight loss by overweight people, and seeing one of the people interviewed crying because they couldn't afford to do the subway diet like the guy on the ads (actually I think they had gone to one of his "talks"), as though subway was their only option for healthy food.


Yeah. Thats SuperSize me. The anti saturated fat/meat/ vegan tree hugging bullshit of a documentary by some moron who doesn't know dick all about healthy eating. Both the videos I linked to were pieces of the dvd "Fathead." A documentary where they challenge a lot of the views in the super size movie and a lot of misconceptions about nutrition and healthy eating in general.

User avatar
justaman
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 am UTC
Location: in ur walls eatin' ur internets

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby justaman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:42 pm UTC

shocklocks wrote:
I recall seeing a documentary a while ago which had something to do with weight loss by overweight people, and seeing one of the people interviewed crying because they couldn't afford to do the subway diet like the guy on the ads (actually I think they had gone to one of his "talks"), as though subway was their only option for healthy food.

Yeah. Thats SuperSize me. The anti saturated fat/meat/ vegan tree hugging bullshit of a documentary by some moron who doesn't know dick all about healthy eating. Both the videos I linked to were pieces of the dvd "Fathead." A documentary where they challenge a lot of the views in the super size movie and a lot of misconceptions about nutrition and healthy eating in general.

So that's where it was. That movie was pretty crap, though there was some interesting stuff in it... of course it was a completely unrealistic situation. IIRC, there was a bit of a backlash where a few people went on diets of only McDs, eating the healthier options and much less of it volume wise, and did actually end up weighing less (I can't recall about % fat though).
Felstaff wrote:"deglove"? I think you may have just conjured the sickest image within my mind since I heard the term "testicle pop".

poohat
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby poohat » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:23 pm UTC

Supersize Me is probably the dumbest concept for a movie in history

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:54 am UTC

Okay guys, update time. First, in regards to the diet - I'm following it fairly well, but I've also taken onboard the advice to eat lots. I've been eating until I'm full and then some, having two lunches, etc.

I started Starting Strength. However, the only gym available to me is a small one for triathlon trainers. As such, some equipment is unavailable, so I have a few questions...

1) Is it okay to only follow Workout A (and skip B entirely)? I can't drop the weights for power cleaning without damaging the floor - I would have to construct a platform myself. While I'm willing, it would be extremely inconvenient, particularly as I usually have to walk to the gym. I'll learn the press if I can replace the power clean with something else. However, for the moment, I've just been following Workout A.

2) I can only perform squats on a machine; there is no rack available. I've searched around the gym for something that could be used as a squat rack, but there's nothing safe. Should I persist doing squats on the machine, or should I replace it with somebody else? If I do continue using the machine, should I use another exercise to train the muscles that aren't being trained because I'm not using a free weight?

3) Why only 1x5 deadlift, and not 3x5?
EDIT: Yes, I did read the SS FAQ. However, that FAQ seems to assume squats are being done with free weights, which I am not. So why not 3x5 to make up for the difference?

4) I feel my deadlift more in my arms and lower back, and very little in my legs. My dad (who lifts, and has read about the subject, but has had no formal training or anything in the area) believes that is because my arms are very weak compared to my legs (because of all the walking I do - I do a LOT, and live on a mountain, so...). Is this true? If so, when can I expect my arms to catch up, following SS? If not, are there any likely flaws with my form that would cause this? I am squatting down with feet shoulder width and pointing slightly outward - my back is straight (my father's advice was to try to arch it so it forms a concave surface, the opposite of all those 'bad form' deadlifting videos). My shoulders are kept back. I have been using the machine for deadlifts, but next gym visit I am planning to use a freeweight.

5) When squatting, how can I tell when I am going parallel, without a spotter? I don't have a mirror nearby, nor a video camera or phone with adequate capability to film myself squatting. So what I really mean is, what should I feel when I'm parallel? My squat is larger than my deadlift, so I doubt I am going parallel. However, it certainly looks (from my perspective) that I'm low enough to be parallel, and my legs have to work extremely hard to get the weight back up. I can't recall at the moment where I feel the burn in my legs, I'm sorry.

6) As I mentioned, I'm currently only following Workout A, on three non-consecutive days a week. Should I still be adding the same amount of weight per workout (obviously I do for squats, since that's in Workout B as well) for bench and deadlift? My bench has increased by 2.5kg over three workouts. I started on 30kg, tried 32.5kg and it proved too heavy, and made 32.5kg today (was tough though). This sort of makes sense, since if I was doing Workout A/Workout B together, the recommended increase is 5-10lb for the bench... Am I doing everything right? My deadlift has gone from 60kg to 70kg to 75kg in those three workouts. Should I change anything? Note that the deadlift was 3x5; otherwise, my legs don't feel DOMS, and since I'm a complete novice, I've been using that as an indicator of how good the workout was. Convince me otherwise, guys.

7) I finished off my workout today with 2x10 situps. I did a set of 10, this felt too easy. I tried it holding a 5kg weight across my chest, again too easy. So the 2x10 was with a 10kg weight across my chest. I had my legs over... well, I don't know what the machine/device would be called, but it's basically a tilted bench (perhaps a 30 degree tilt?) with my head closer to the floor than my legs, which were supported by two poles (covered, so as not to feel uncomfortable) sticking outwards. What is the correct way to hold the weight when doing these situps, should I be doing anything else instead (is there a compound exercise for abs? I feel that since I'm using machines for a part of the workout, my midsection isn't quite getting the workout it would otherwise), and should I be doing these at all?

8) I'm on summer holidays: being in Australia, our school swimming carnival is held near the start of the year, so these summer holidays I want to get into great shape for the carnival (I've always been the skinny kid that comes last). I've heard of bulking and cutting cycles: is it practical to bulk and cut over, say, a nine week period? I'm following SS and eating a lot, so that should accomplish the bulking. If I were to 'cut', when and how would I go about doing it? Additionally, would it be wise to incorporate swimming into my regime? Would I start in the bulking or cutting phase (swimming is cardio, I believe, but I've also heard it builds shoulder muscles and so on, so I wasn't sure)? If I don't bulk/cut, when would I begin swimming? And how would I structure this around SS?

9) I've noticed DOMS has been becoming less (probably as I'm growing more accustomed to bench/squat/deadlift). Does it ever go away completely? If not, is it recommended to train through DOMS? I trained today because I didn't want to miss a workout and DOMS was minimal. That's fine, I THINK. However, if I began the aforementioned swimming regime, or cutting, or whatever you guys recommend to me, would I perform those exercises on my off-day, through DOMS? Before a workout? After?

So basically, I know nothing. If any of you are kind enough to educate me, and clear these questions up, you'll be my hero, until I forget about you (but not your advice). :) THANKS XKCD.

EDIT: Only to notify me when a reply is posted.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:24 pm UTC

+ranslucent wrote:1) Is it okay to only follow Workout A (and skip B entirely)? I can't drop the weights for power cleaning without damaging the floor - I would have to construct a platform myself. While I'm willing, it would be extremely inconvenient, particularly as I usually have to walk to the gym. I'll learn the press if I can replace the power clean with something else. However, for the moment, I've just been following Workout A.

Even if you can't power clean, you should probably alternate the bench press and the press. Bench pressing without any overhead work can increase injury risk to the shoulders.

Also, you don't want to deadlift multiple times a week. Maybe you could do chin ups or something instead the other days. Or, at least while the weights are light, you could power clean without dropping the weight.

+ranslucent wrote:I can only perform squats on a machine; there is no rack available. I've searched around the gym for something that could be used as a squat rack, but there's nothing safe. Should I persist doing squats on the machine, or should I replace it with somebody else? If I do continue using the machine, should I use another exercise to train the muscles that aren't being trained because I'm not using a free weight?

If there's no rack, you might want to try front squats. It's not an equivalent exercise to the back squat, but it's probably better than the machine.

+ranslucent wrote:Why only 1x5 deadlift, and not 3x5?
EDIT: Yes, I did read the SS FAQ. However, that FAQ seems to assume squats are being done with free weights, which I am not. So why not 3x5 to make up for the difference?

Deadlifts are a very demanding exercise to recover from. 3x5 will be overkill when the weight gets heavy.

+ranslucent wrote:I feel my deadlift more in my arms and lower back, and very little in my legs. My dad (who lifts, and has read about the subject, but has had no formal training or anything in the area) believes that is because my arms are very weak compared to my legs (because of all the walking I do - I do a LOT, and live on a mountain, so...).

You arms are supposed to be weaker than your legs. Humans are bipedal and all. Still, it's strange that you feel deadlifts in your arms. Where exactly in your arms do you feel them? If it's just forearm/grip strength, then it's probably fine.

+ranslucent wrote:When squatting, how can I tell when I am going parallel, without a spotter? I don't have a mirror nearby, nor a video camera or phone with adequate capability to film myself squatting. So what I really mean is, what should I feel when I'm parallel?

It's tricky. Try squatting without weight beside a mirror, camera or friend, and noting when you hit parallel. Remember what it feels like and try to reproduce that with the bar.

+ranslucent wrote:I've heard of bulking and cutting cycles: is it practical to bulk and cut over, say, a nine week period? I'm following SS and eating a lot, so that should accomplish the bulking. If I were to 'cut', when and how would I go about doing it? Additionally, would it be wise to incorporate swimming into my regime? Would I start in the bulking or cutting phase (swimming is cardio, I believe, but I've also heard it builds shoulder muscles and so on, so I wasn't sure)? If I don't bulk/cut, when would I begin swimming? And how would I structure this around SS?

Bulking and cutting overcomplicates things, I think. Not because it's difficult, but because it will wreak havoc with your progress at a stage where you should be building momentum. As for swimming, you can start whenever you want. It'll probably slow down your progress in strength training, but that's a trade-off you'll have to make according to your priorities.

+ranslucent wrote:I've noticed DOMS has been becoming less (probably as I'm growing more accustomed to bench/squat/deadlift). Does it ever go away completely? If not, is it recommended to train through DOMS? I trained today because I didn't want to miss a workout and DOMS was minimal. That's fine, I THINK. However, if I began the aforementioned swimming regime, or cutting, or whatever you guys recommend to me, would I perform those exercises on my off-day, through DOMS? Before a workout? After?

A bit of soreness is probably nothing to worry about, and there's no point skipping workouts unless it becomes really problematic.

As for the swimming, I'd do it on off days.

TGM
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:41 am UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby TGM » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:36 pm UTC

I can't answer all your questions but I can tell you a few things. Hopefully Victoria Maddison or Nath can clear up everything else.

First off, it's not ok to just do workout A. Soon your deadlift will get too heavy and you won't be able to do it three times a week.

I also can't power clean (Unless I wanna destroy my floor) so I just recently switched to the Practical Programming program.

Here's a link: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/ ... r_Programs

As for DOMS, as you get used to lifting it'll get better. If you eat right it'll help with recovery alot. DOMS is not an indicator of how "good" your workout was.

I don't think you can bulk then cut after nine weeks. You'll want to follow SS all the way through if you want to maximise your gains, this will take 3-9 months not just a few weeks. Cutting would only be done after you've "finished" SS. (i.e. you're not progressing any more and need to move to an intermediate program.) And you would only need to cut if you have extra fat you want to get rid of.

Also, if you're doing starting strength properly you won't really be able to do alot of cardio or other exercise in between workouts as you'll need it to recover. I know I've stopped mountain biking. If you are gonna mix in cardio it probably will impact your strength gains, but that may be ok depending on your goals. If you are going to do it, do it seperate from lifting, and preferably on your rest days.

If you don't have access to freeweights in your gym you could buy your own. I've got a bench, squat rack, and weights at home, all I need. The rack was $200 new, the bench $50 used, and dunno about the weights but you could probably do it for under $500.

EDIT: Ahh, looks like a nina post jumped in before me.
- TGM

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:47 pm UTC

Nath wrote:Maybe you could do chin ups or something instead the other days. Or, at least while the weights are light, you could power clean without dropping the weight.


How many chin ups? I don't think I'd be able to power clean without dropping the weight - I'm trying to lift heavy weights to get the most out of the few reps and sets. So probably not.

If there's no rack, you might want to try front squats. It's not an equivalent exercise to the back squat, but it's probably better than the machine.


How do I put the weight down properly?

Deadlifts are a very demanding exercise to recover from. 3x5 will be overkill when the weight gets heavy.


I'm recovering from them fine at the moment, I think. Should I resume 3x5, but then move to 2x5 and 1x5 as weights get heavier?

Still, it's strange that you feel deadlifts in your arms. Where exactly in your arms do you feel them? If it's just forearm/grip strength, then it's probably fine.


Yeah, just forearms. But my legs rarely go home sore, and when they do it's not much (and they only do because I've been doing 3x5 deadlifts - when I tried 1x5, my legs were absolutely fine). Still fine?

Bulking and cutting overcomplicates things, I think. Not because it's difficult, but because it will wreak havoc with your progress at a stage where you should be building momentum.


To be perfectly honest, I'm doing this out of vanity (I want to look good and perform well for a swimming carnival). Is cutting definitely a no-go? I would be willing to forgo momentum and strength gains temporarily in order to reach my goal. I'd rather be pretty strong and pretty trim, than very strong but have a decent amount of fat on me due to the extra food I'm eating.

As for swimming, you can start whenever you want... [and on off days]


Would that suffice as my 'cutting', in terms of keeping fairly lean? My regime would pretty much consist of freestyle. How should I structure the swimming? A set number of laps, interval training, etc.

Thank you very much for your help.

TGM wrote:so I just recently switched to the Practical Programming program.


Will give it a shot, thank you.

Cutting would only be done after you've "finished" SS.


Okay, well my aims are to get both stronger and leaner in nine weeks, without one compromising the other. Should I be doing a different program?

you won't really be able to do alot of cardio or other exercise in between workouts as you'll need it to recover


If I did do it, which should I go easy on? The weights, or the cardio? Or both, seeming as I want the best of both worlds?

If you don't have access to freeweights in your gym you could buy your own.


Several issues with this. Notably a lack of money and a lack of space. The only thing I don't have access to, really, is a squat rack and the bumpers for power cleans. Both you and Nath have suggested alternatives, so I'll stick with those.

Again, thank you for your help.

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

+ranslucent wrote:How many chin ups?

As many as you can, for 3 sets or so. If you can do a decent number (say, 15), you can add some weight and lower the number of reps.

+ranslucent wrote:[For front squats] How do I put the weight down properly?

I take it you don't have access to chest-high barbell stands, either? (The kind you'd use for pressing.) That makes it tricky. I guess you'd have to clean the weight up and put it down gently. This is not as hard as it sounds, but it will probably be the limiting factor in the amount of weight you can use.

How high does your bench press stand go? If it's high enough to pick up the bar from the bottom of a squat, that might be an option. Still far from ideal, because starting at the bottom allows you to use less weight.

+ranslucent wrote:I'm recovering from them fine at the moment, I think. Should I resume 3x5, but then move to 2x5 and 1x5 as weights get heavier?

I guess you could, but it seems pointless. If you are increasing the weight every workout, the deadlifts will get heavy fast. You'll still be able to complete the workout, but your recovery will be less than ideal and you may not know why. It just adds one more variable that needs to be kept in mind, and at this point the simpler your program the better.

+ranslucent wrote:Yeah, just forearms. But my legs rarely go home sore, and when they do it's not much (and they only do because I've been doing 3x5 deadlifts - when I tried 1x5, my legs were absolutely fine). Still fine?

Yeah. Soreness (or lack thereof) is not that informative.

+ranslucent wrote:To be perfectly honest, I'm doing this out of vanity (I want to look good and perform well for a swimming carnival). Is cutting definitely a no-go? I would be willing to forgo momentum and strength gains temporarily in order to reach my goal. I'd rather be pretty strong and pretty trim, than very strong but have a decent amount of fat on me due to the extra food I'm eating.
...
Would that suffice as my 'cutting', in terms of keeping fairly lean? My regime would pretty much consist of freestyle. How should I structure the swimming? A set number of laps, interval training, etc.

If you're just swimming to give yourself a caloric deficit, then it doesn't much matter what you do. Just swim enough (and/or eat little enough) that you're losing weight. Note that swimming might increase your appetite more than other forms of exercise, to the point where some people actually gain weight when they start a swimming program. (I could probably dig up that study if you want.) So you'll need to use weight measurement rather than appetite to decide how much to eat.

+ranslucent wrote:Okay, well my aims are to get both stronger and leaner in nine weeks, without one compromising the other. Should I be doing a different program?

There's no program that will be optimal for both. You can do both of these at once, but one or both will be compromised. There's nothing wrong with this; fitness is a multidimensional thing, and sometimes the various dimensions are at odds with each other.

+ranslucent
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:04 am UTC

[chin-ups] As many as you can, for 3 sets or so. If you can do a decent number (say, 15), you can add some weight and lower the number of reps.

How do I go about adding weight? I don't have a vest or belt that's designed for that, what equipment do I need?

[for bench rack] If it's high enough to pick up the bar from the bottom of a squat,

Nope. And in any case, whoever designed the equipment decided to weld the actual bench to the rack, so I can't do anything with it.

[front squat] I guess you'd have to clean the weight up and put it down gently. This is not as hard as it sounds, but it will probably be the limiting factor in the amount of weight you can use.

If that's still better than back squats on a machine, then I'll take it. I'm guessing there's no way to safely do back squats by cleaning the weight up or whatever?

If you're just swimming to give yourself a caloric deficit, then it doesn't much matter what you do. Just swim enough (and/or eat little enough) that you're losing weight.

I think my problem is that I want to eat a lot (to gain muscle) but also eat less (to lose fat)... If I just ate a normal amount, I'd do neither, correct? Or do both very slowly.. Is what I'm trying to achieve possible by eating little, but stacking my diet with tonnes of protein and another foods good for gaining muscle?

There's no program that will be optimal for both. You can do both of these at once, but one or both will be compromised.

Sorry, poor phrasing on my behalf. I know that I can't get the best results possible in both areas; I meant that I don't want to be incredibly strong but not lean at all, or incredibly lean but not strong at all. I'd like to strike a fairly even balance between the two.

Again, thankyou. What's your opinion on the Practical Programming workouts?

User avatar
Nath
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:41 am UTC

+ranslucent wrote:How do I go about adding weight? I don't have a vest or belt that's designed for that, what equipment do I need?

Some people start by holding a dumbbell between their feet. A belt is ideal. You might be able to improvise something with the straps that come with some of those weight machines.

+ranslucent wrote:If that's still better than back squats on a machine, then I'll take it. I'm guessing there's no way to safely do back squats by cleaning the weight up or whatever?

It's not impossible, but it's tricky. It's hard to safely dump the bar as well. It can be done, but it takes practice, and practice requires bumper plates.

+ranslucent wrote:I think my problem is that I want to eat a lot (to gain muscle) but also eat less (to lose fat)... If I just ate a normal amount, I'd do neither, correct? Or do both very slowly.. Is what I'm trying to achieve possible by eating little, but stacking my diet with tonnes of protein and another foods good for gaining muscle?

My guess is that eating at less than a maintenance level will make it hard to build muscle, even if you're eating lots of protein. Staying at about maintenance while working out will probably gradually improve your strength and body composition without affecting your weight much. Alternating between bulking and cutting is probably the most efficient way for an experienced athlete to get to a target composition, but that's probably not ideal for someone just starting out.

+ranslucent wrote:Sorry, poor phrasing on my behalf. I know that I can't get the best results possible in both areas; I meant that I don't want to be incredibly strong but not lean at all, or incredibly lean but not strong at all. I'd like to strike a fairly even balance between the two.

Then yeah, this sort of strength training with a sensible diet and some conditioning work or sports is probably a reasonable way to go.

+ranslucent wrote:Again, thankyou. What's your opinion on the Practical Programming workouts?

I haven't read that book. The version on the wiki looks good if you're OK with pull ups etc.

EDIT: you know, I should probably point out that I'm not an expert on strength training. I can only answer these questions because I've recently done similar research to choose my own training program, and been training productively for a few months.


Return to “Fit Club”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests