Any improvements to this diet?

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Victoria Maddison
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Victoria Maddison » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:19 am UTC

This is ridiculous.

If you screw with the program don't expect to get results. At the moment you're basically doing everything you can to mess it up, using machines instead of free weights, skipping lifts, doing others too often, trying to cut instead of bulk, messing with the set/rep scheme... it's a recipe for disaster.

Don't skip workout B, anything that you can clean you can lower to the ground under control. Squats must be performed with a barbell not a machine. Deadlifts are performed at 1x5 once a week because they're very taxing, if you're able to do 3x5 three days a week then you're wasting your time and should be adding 20-40 lbs to the bar each workout. You aren't supposed to really feel the deadlift in your legs (quads) because it doesn't target them. The deadlift is not a half squat, don't try to get under the bar, your ass should be up, and there should be tension in your hamstrings if you're in the right starting position. Deadlifts must be performed with a barbell not a machine.

Squat until you reach the bottom instead of trying to go to parallel if you don't know where it is. Increase the weight each workout as much as is reasonably possible. There is no "recommended increase [of] 5-10lb" for the bench. Don't bench three times a week. DOMS has nothing to do with how good a workout was, there should be no DOMS. The weight should be held behind the head when doing weighted situps. It doesn't matter if you do situps after your workouts.

It is not possible to bulk and cut any reasonable amount of weight over 9 weeks. At 130 lbs you have no business trying to lose weight. You will not gain muscle on a caloric deficit. If you try to cut you will waste your novice ability to gain 30-40 lbs of muscle in 6-9 months. Swimming is fine as GPP. It doesn't matter how you structure your swimming just lay off your rest days, they're for recovery. DOMS will go away in a few weeks when your body adjusts to lifting. Training with DOMS is fine.

Vanity is a crazy reason for a 130 lb male to cut, you'll look worse and perform worse if you spend the next 9 weeks cutting. On the other hand if you spend them gaining 9 lbs of muscle you'll perform better and look better. Chinups are not a replacement for power cleans. Weighted chinups can be performed with a rope/chain threaded through plates and hung around your waist. No you won't gain weight if you eat at maintenance. Practical Programming is a good program for those that actually do it as written.

+ranslucent
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:41 am UTC

Well, that was straightforward. Thanks.

Would Practical Programming and one swimming session a week be a good idea? The swimming would be at the end of the week, on neither a rest day nor a work day. Other than that, I think I've got everything sorted - do you agree (Victoria) that front squats with free weights are better than back squats on a machine? If so, I'll substitute them into Practical Programming. Back squats with a free weight aren't an option - I'd do them if they were, or if I could improvise something, or if I was well enough versed with weightlifting to try the technique Nath linked to, but I'm not.

How much can I expect to overhead press as compared to a bench press?

Victoria Maddison
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Victoria Maddison » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:10 am UTC

+ranslucent wrote:Would Practical Programming and one swimming session a week be a good idea?

For GPP the swimming is fine.

+ranslucent wrote:do you agree (Victoria) that front squats with free weights are better than back squats on a machine?

They both suck compared to the back squat, try to find a gym with a squat rack. Otherwise front squat 5x3 and don't expect the same results.

+ranslucent wrote:How much can I expect to overhead press

About 70% of your bench press.

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aliceone
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby aliceone » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:51 pm UTC

Be careful with the amount of extras you use on sandwiches and salads. The mayo, butter or dressing could make a huge difference in fat and calories in what is otherwise a sensible set of food choices. Not that you need to cut it all, but measuring to see what you use and being aware of your consumption may show you some things you didn't realize before.

As a vegan, I'd say there is a LOT of meat in your diet. Supposedly, our society eats far too much protein (not to mention the other surprises you can get from raw fish). I'd suggest cutting out some meat and substituting some tofu or alternative protein sources (nuts, seeds) for a portion of your diet. Whole grains (not just rice, but exotics like quinoa).

Add some fruits and try to vary your selections.

Last of all--portion control, if you're looking to control calories.

------

I posted having read just your initial entry. Having paged down, I'd add a couple of things. First and foremost that simply packing in meat is not going to bulk you up and eating anything you can get your hands on is silly advice. You can add bulk and do so in a healthy manner. Add whole grains, add calories, but choose healthy calories. Eat slightly larger portions. Add some calorie-dense foods to your meals, like nuts to your salads. Weight training can help you add muscle, but you're going to be fighting against your normal build. If you're a slight person, you're not going to become massive through diet or exercise. You can layer on a lot of muscle, but that muscle may end up being relative to your body structure, not add significant size or mass.
Last edited by Hammer on Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Nath
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Nath » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:40 am UTC

aliceone wrote:Supposedly, our society eats far too much protein (not to mention the other surprises you can get from raw fish). I'd suggest cutting out some meat and substituting some tofu or alternative protein sources (nuts, seeds) for a portion of your diet.

What's your source for the 'too much protein' thing? I remember looking into it a few months ago, and found that the basis for the recommended upper limit on protein was quite shaky and generally discredited. Most people in the west consume more than the minimum required to avoid malnutrition, but not necessarily enough to support heavy athletic activity.

As for tofu, it has its own set of problems. I second the recommendation for nuts and seeds, though.

aliceone wrote:Weight training can help you add muscle, but you're going to be fighting against your normal build. If you're a slight person, you're not going to become massive through diet or exercise. You can layer on a lot of muscle, but that muscle may end up being relative to your body structure, not add significant size or mass.

While there is such a thing as body type, and some people find it easier to put on muscle mass, the original poster is still in school. We don't yet know what his 'normal build' will be. At this age, with proper training and lots of food, it's not uncommon for previously slight people to put on a lot of muscle in a short time. If he was in his thirties, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. (Not that a thirty year old can't build lots of muscle, but it would be more of a struggle to keep his body composition in check.)

Victoria Maddison
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby Victoria Maddison » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:21 am UTC

aliceone wrote:Supposedly, our society eats far too much protein

Unlikely, protein is expensive, people don't eat "far too much" of it by accident. Eating somewhat more than the incredibly low RDA for protein doesn't equate to eating too much. Especially when we consider that the OP is training and attempting to gain weight.

aliceone wrote:First and foremost that simply packing in meat is not going to bulk you up

But it sure will help when combined with enough calories and a solid training program.

aliceone wrote:eating anything you can get your hands on is silly advice.

Actually eating everything in sight is one of the best ways to gain weight. Especially if it's mostly real (non processed) food.

aliceone wrote:You can add bulk and do so in a healthy manner. Add whole grains, add calories, but choose healthy calories.

Let me guess, all carbohydrates right? Because fat and protein, the only macro nutrients the body actually requires, are bad for you. Sigh. You know wheat actually raises small particle LDL cholesterol...

aliceone wrote:Weight training can help you add muscle, but you're going to be fighting against your normal build. If you're a slight person, you're not going to become massive through diet or exercise. You can layer on a lot of muscle, but that muscle may end up being relative to your body structure, not add significant size or mass.

There's no reason the OP can't bulk up to 225 lbs if he wants to. The primary reason young boys are skinny is because they don't eat enough.

Nath wrote:If he was in his thirties, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. (Not that a thirty year old can't build lots of muscle, but it would be more of a struggle to keep his body composition in check.)

It's due to testosterone levels decreasing with age.

Shovin' all unnecessary off-topicness here:
This post had objectionable content.
~~Falstaff

+ranslucent
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby +ranslucent » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 am UTC

aliceone wrote:Be careful with the amount of extras you use on sandwiches and salads. The mayo, butter or dressing could make a huge difference in fat and calories in what is otherwise a sensible set of food choices. Not that you need to cut it all, but measuring to see what you use and being aware of your consumption may show you some things you didn't realize before.


I use no mayo or butter, and use dressing sparingly.

aliceone wrote:As a vegan, I'd say there is a LOT of meat in your diet. Supposedly, our society eats far too much protein (not to mention the other surprises you can get from raw fish). I'd suggest cutting out some meat and substituting some tofu or alternative protein sources (nuts, seeds) for a portion of your diet. Whole grains (not just rice, but exotics like quinoa).


It seems to me as though you're basing that off your veganism - if I eat too much protein, why would I merely want to swap one protein source for another? I am trying to eat more nuts though, as they're easily portable and I've been told to eat often.

aliceone wrote:Add some fruits and try to vary your selections.


I have indeed added more fruit; the good thing about that is that fruit is delicious, so it helps me eat often between meals.

aliceone wrote:First and foremost that simply packing in meat is not going to bulk you up


As opposed to an alternative protein source? Meat is as good a protein source as any, as far as I know.

aliceone wrote:and eating anything you can get your hands on is silly advice. You can add bulk and do so in a healthy manner. Add whole grains, add calories, but choose healthy calories.


My plan so far is to stock the fridge healthily, which means that anything I can get my hands on is healthy. In any case, my choices of fast food are generally healthier than most (I take Subway instead of Maccas, etc), and I eat out fairly rarely.

aliceone wrote:Weight training can help you add muscle, but you're going to be fighting against your normal build. If you're a slight person, you're not going to become massive through diet or exercise.


Is it then a coincidence that the most muscular people I know eat lots, eat healthy and exercise plenty?

Thank you again to all contributors.

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TheSkyMovesSideways
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:15 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:This post had objectionable content.

Man, if disparaging vegans in Fit Club is objectionable, I guess disparaging people who use txttlk in Language/Linguistics, people who claim pi is exactly 3 in Mathematics and young Earth creationists in Science would also be objectionable. :? :lol:
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I just figured I'd be on the other side.
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jtw
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Re: Any improvements to this diet?

Postby jtw » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:18 pm UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:
Felstaff wrote:This post had objectionable content.

Man, if disparaging vegans in Fit Club is objectionable, I guess disparaging people who use txttlk in Language/Linguistics, people who claim pi is exactly 3 in Mathematics and young Earth creationists in Science would also be objectionable. :? :lol:


yeah - that's pretty weak. Calling veganism what it is, "dietary extremism," isn't what I would consider objectionable content.


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