Sleep

[genghis007]

We all know sleep's an essential part of a healthy lifestyle, so that's why I've posted this here. If it's in the wrong place, please move it.

I've heard you need to get at least 8 hours sleep per night whilst your body is still developing/growing (I'm 18) The thing is, I'm not able to do it. No matter what time I wake up, or how little sleep I've had the night before, I don't feel physically tired until 2.30/3am. I believe I lead a healthy*ish* daily life, I cycle to college (7km each way) or I walk to the bus stop (1km each way) and I exercise 4 times a week for at least 3 hours on those days, excluding any football games (proper football, not the american version) with mates at college. I don't eat/drink/exercise after 9pm, and I'm still unable to get to sleep. If I got to bed at 10pm I'm more than capable of staring at the ceiling for 4 hours before I fall asleep. I'm up by 7.30 every day, 3S's and I'm out the door before 8.

Is it possible that my body just doesn't need the 8 hours sleep I'm trying to force myself to have, or are they any trickses you lot know that could help me?

[Mighty Jalapeno]

Have kids. I get by with 5 hours a night now (and it only took 8 years).

[TGM]

I have no citation for this, but I once watched a documentary about sleep. They mentioned that old teens/young adults tend to want to go to sleep late and wake up late for genetic reasons. But obviously this isn't really compatible with a modern lifestyle.

All I can say is try to get the eight hours of sleep as it is important to recovery.

Maybe try some lucid dreaming websites or something, they may have info for people who have trouble sleeping.

[Nath]

How tired are you in the mornings? Do you find yourself getting sleepy during the day?

[psyck0]

Every study I know says >95% of the population performs optimally on a minimum of 7-9 hours of sleep. You can adapt to less, and you can perform well with less, but to be at your peak you almost certainly need 7-9 hours per night. That's why I laugh at all my friends in university who regularly pull all-nighters and tell me that it doesn't affect them. The science says it does. You can't argue with the evidence.

[genghis007]

Have kids. I get by with 5 hours a night now (and it only took 8 years).

Sounds like a plan, but I'm not sure I'm ready for kids at the moment

I have no citation for this, but I once watched a documentary about sleep. They mentioned that old teens/young adults tend to want to go to sleep late and wake up late for genetic reasons. But obviously this isn't really compatible with a modern lifestyle.

All I can say is try to get the eight hours of sleep as it is important to recovery.

Maybe try some lucid dreaming websites or something, they may have info for people who have trouble sleeping.

Very true, whenever college/works not going on and I can live by my natural body clock its amazing how much better I feel.

How tired are you in the mornings? Do you find yourself getting sleepy during the day?

I'm usually very tired in the mornings, it takes the alarm going off and repeatedly being shouted at to get me out of bed. I'm awake by the time I've had a pint of ice cold water and had a shower though. Yeah I do get very tired during the day, but whenever I get a chance to sleep I'm suddenly not tired. I stopped drinking caffeine-rich drinks but this doesn't seem to have helped.

Every study I know says >95% of the population performs optimally on a minimum of 7-9 hours of sleep. You can adapt to less, and you can perform well with less, but to be at your peak you almost certainly need 7-9 hours per night. That's why I laugh at all my friends in university who regularly pull all-nighters and tell me that it doesn't affect them. The science says it does. You can't argue with the evidence.

I tried an all-nighter once, was going good until about 6pm the next evening where I just collapsed onto my bed and slept right through till 1pm the next day, missing almost an entire day. On the plus side, it was the best sleep I'd had in aaaages

[psyck0]

Since you were asking about resetting your sleep schedule, the best way I know is to pull an all-nighter, then go to bed around 9-10 pm the next day. It's hard to get to sleep earlier than you are used to.

If you don't want to try it, start getting in bed at 11 every night. Try to get plenty of exercise every day, so you're more fatigued. It'll suck for a few nights as you lie awake in bed for up to a few hours, but don't get out and don't give up. You'll adapt after a few days.

[Nath]

I'm usually very tired in the mornings, it takes the alarm going off and repeatedly being shouted at to get me out of bed. I'm awake by the time I've had a pint of ice cold water and had a shower though. Yeah I do get very tired during the day, but whenever I get a chance to sleep I'm suddenly not tired.

This suggests that you do, in fact, need more sleep than you're getting. I used to function like this as an undergrad -- sleep at 3 or 4, get up at 7-9, shuffle around like a zombie. I thought I was functioning fine, but since I've started getting more sleep, there's been a big improvement in my ability to concentrate.

[shocklocks]

What's your current diet? If it's shit it's going to effect how you sleep. Especially if it's fill of carbs/sugar. You should still be drinking water right up to when you go to bed and you should be having a small meal before you hit the sack seeing as you're about to be fasting for 5-8hours. Barring that, what do you actually do till 2.30am? Sitting in front of the tv/computer before bed is the absolute worst way to get to sleep. For most people this won't be a problem however if you're like me and you do have sleeping problems it could be something to look into. Try reading a book in bed for an hour or so before bed time. Chances are you are actually tired around 10pm(especially if you wake up hella tired in the morning.) The problem is your body is just so used to not sleeping that early that you need to make it a routine. Perhaps you could try getting up earlier and earlier until you're finding your self able to sleep at the right time and then slowly giving your self 30minutes extra sleeping in a day until you're back to getting up at your normal time? On top of that there's always types of music/incense/other means that could might help.

[Posi]

If I go to bed at 10pm I'm more than capable of staring at the ceiling for 4 hours before I fall asleep.

Try this for a week or two. You will probably notice you are sleeping sooner.

I found I was like that too. For the first month (or two?), a single late night would reset me two a 3amer. After that, your body will grudgedly adapt to an earlier bedtime.

[Jeozon]

I would say the amount of sleep, that is needed depends a lot from your personal body (genes)
Some people only need 5 hours, some need 9 hours.

Everybody is a bit different. Like some people can eat a lot and don't get fat and for some other
people its the opposite.

[psyck0]

Unfortunately, science(!) disagrees with you. 5 hours is not even close to enough for most people.

[Zohar]

Uh... that's exactly what Jeozon wrote... "some people only need 5 hours" See that "some"? It means not everyone.

[CueBall]

Uh... that's exactly what Jeozon wrote... "some people only need 5 hours" See that "some"? It means not everyone.

This. I am on far less than normal, and I am fine.

[Nath]

This. I am on far less than normal, and I am fine.

For some value of 'fine'. The only way to be sure is to try getting more sleep for a few weeks and see if there's any difference. Maybe there won't be, but I tried a similar experiment (going from 4-5 hours to 8-9 hours) and was quite surprised by the results.

Maybe I shouldn't be preaching about sleep after pulling an all nighter...

[CueBall]

This. I am on far less than normal, and I am fine.

For some value of 'fine'. The only way to be sure is to try getting more sleep for a few weeks and see if there's any difference. Maybe there won't be, but I tried a similar experiment (going from 4-5 hours to 8-9 hours) and was quite surprised by the results.

Maybe I shouldn't be preaching about sleep after pulling an all nighter...

*Shrugs* It's not possible for me to get more, so... I work at the same level as my friends, so either I'm a complete genius and sleep dep is preventing it showing, or I'm normal and fine with less sleep.

[Nath]

Academically, I did pretty well on 4-5 hours of sleep as well, without the benefit of being a genius. Turns out that college thing was actually pretty easy. But there are other things to consider besides work/school performance. If you can't get more sleep, you can't. Doesn't mean you're sleeping optimally, though.

[psyck0]

"Some" DRASTICALLY overestimates the number of people who can function optimally on 5 hours of sleep.

Maybe most people are at 85% or so. I sure as hell don't like scoring 85% on tests.

[Ledah]

The funny thing is, if I sleep between 7 and 8 hours, I'll wake up feeling like I haven't slep enough, but it's the amount of time that will keep me in a better mood and functioning better all day. If I sleep more I'll just feel lazy all the time. Just need to overcome those first 15 minutes.

[Moment-of-Genesis]

"Some" DRASTICALLY overestimates the number of people who can function optimally on 5 hours of sleep.

Maybe most people are at 85% or so. I sure as hell don't like scoring 85% on tests.

I was not aware that "some" denoted a value other than ">0"
If ">0" is correct, then saying some people do not require 7-9 hours of sleep doesn't overestimate, it's not very specific but it would be correct.

[psyck0]

Jesus christ. Basic vocabulary. While the exact quantity is not specified, "some" exists on a continuum with other quantity words. The list goes, in terms of quantity, none<a couple<a few<some<many<most<all. Obviously I'm skipping some quantity words. I don't understand why I even need to say that.

I want to add that not only are you performing sub-optimally, but long-term, sleeping 5 or 6 instead of 8 hours a night has an impact on your health as well. That is why I am stressing so hard that if you think you are doing fine on 5 a night, you are 99% likely to be wrong.

[Moment-of-Genesis]

Jesus christ. Basic vocabulary. While the exact quantity is not specified, "some" exists on a continuum with other quantity words. The list goes, in terms of quantity, none<a couple<a few<some<many<most<all. Obviously I'm skipping some quantity words. I don't understand why I even need to say that.

To help with your confusion as to why you would need to explain your personal definition of a word with a differing popular/textual definition I have written this post:

First off, I'm sorry. You sound upset, and I don't mean too antagonize you further.... but I probably will. I am not a grammer or spelling nazi, but I am disagreeing with your assertion that "some" wasn't a correct term in it's usage to denote a section of people greater than none. I would use it's popular use as an obvious example, but I will attempt to break it down a bit as well: while "some" does denote a value, it is in fact not a "quantity word" per your definition, as it doesn't exist inside a specific heirarchy of amount. (I see you tried to include it, but you're incorrect.) For instance, "few" denotes a relatively discernible amount (usually within 2-3 units from my experience), the term "some" is by definition an unquantified amount over nil. A standard dictionary definition of "some" is this:

"Consisting of a greater or less portion or sum; composed of a quantity or number which is not stated; used to express an indefinite quantity or number; as, some wine; some water; some persons. Used also pronominally; as, I have some."

With this definition, 1 is some, one million is also some. "Some people" just means a sample of the population of indeterminate size that is quantifiable only as being greater than the value of nil. (and I assume at least one whole unit, as it refers to living things hehe)

It's okay to be wrong sometimes, it is one of the ways in which we learn.









*All spelling/grammatical mistakes in the above post were for artistic purposes and do not require correction*

[Maple_fish]

Actually, ideal sleep is between 6-8 hours. Sleeping much longer than this can shorten your lifespan (but I'm sure once a week can't hurt!) I get by on 5-7 hours sleep most week nights- can't comment on my life expectancy though.
If its trouble sleeping you have, reading always helps me. Or maybe get some mellow music on. Cut out caffeine after 2pm and drink warm milk before settling in. Forcing yourself to sleep early isn't always easy though.

[Zohar]

Actually, ideal sleep is between 6-8 hours. Sleeping much longer than this can shorten your lifespan

Huh? Citation needed... Very much...

[rigwarl]

Sitting in front of the tv/computer before bed is the absolute worst way to get to sleep.

Just wanted to elaborate on this. I have firsthand experience with doing so most of my life, but never really thought why it was a big deal until a doctor told me that it trickses your body into thinking it's daytime when you're staring at a screen. I started reading/exercising instead, and had much better results.

On an unrelated note, it took me an embarrassingly long time to spell "exercising" right.

[Maple_fish]

Actually, ideal sleep is between 6-8 hours. Sleeping much longer than this can shorten your lifespan

Huh? Citation needed... Very much...

I saw it on a UK comedy show (so it must be true). According to their forums though, the short lifespan is more likely to be tied to many other factors that also cause people to sleep 11hrs+, not just due to the sleep itself
http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t= ... sc&start=0

And Genghis007 if you're still not sleeping there are more tips in this article:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sleep-l ... r-training

[dekoba]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Hours_by_age

theres a citation for you, though I dont know how scholarly this forum finds wikipedia

[Alex-J]

Sleep needs very from person to person, if you feel well rested then your probably okay.

If you really want to get to sleep do serious and I mean really physically taxing hard workouts sometime during the day (no sooner than two hours before you want to sleep). No matter how tired I was I could never seem to fall asleep and I would be tired the next day. Really hard exercise got me to fall asleep earlier and faster than I ever thought I could.

[Chicostick]

Sleep can also depend on your health at the time. Right now I need a ton of sleep, but that's just because I've been working pretty hard during the day and I have an annoying cold right now.

I also second the idea of exercise. Not only will being physically tired help you catch some z's, but it also gets you healthier and makes you feel good!

[Griffin]

It sounds like you need more sleep. If you actually are interested in getting to sleep earlier, I have the following reccomendations:

Get enough sunlight during the day, especially some in the early morning, to let your body know whats going on. Leave your window shades open during the night, for example. Your body needs those light signals to get into a groove.

On the same hand, avoid Televisions, computers, etc. after 8 oclock if at all possible (assuming a 10 or 11 oclock target for sleeping). They send "daytime" signals to your body and mess with sleep schedules.

Try to adjust the times you usually eat and exercise - you need to figure out how your body responds and schedule these things appropriately to help you get to sleep earlier.

[Garzahd]

Your symptoms fit a disorder known as: Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome

I have this problem too, and I got relief by taking melatonin supplements. Taking ~1mg about a half an hour before bedtime should do the trick.

But, there's a catch. Taking melatonin supplements will induce tachyphylaxis which, basically, means that the supplements will be less and less useful to you as you continue to take them. The good news is that tachyphylaxis is completely reversible; stop taking melatonin supplements for a period of time (which increases relative to the amount of melatonin you are taking) and all tolerance to them will disappear. The bad news is that the first week you stop taking them you will likely be completely miserable because you be resistant to both the supplements and the melatonin your own body produces. Which in all likelyhood will lead you to sleep at completely unregulated/random times during this 1 week period. But, after that things start to level out and after about a month you should be ready to start taking them again.

I use it when I'm attending classes and stop over winter and summer recess. It works pretty well for me.

Another point of interest: Melatonin can be purchased in the states as a dietary supplement. But, it's use may be controlled in other countries (and, judging from your use of the metric system in your posts I'd wager that you don't live in the states). You may be able to get around any restriction by importing it from the states though. There is also a prescription medication known as Ramelteon (aka Rozerem) which mimics the effects of melatonin.

[duckshirt]

(and, judging from your use of the metric system in your posts I'd wager that you don't live in the states).

Yeah, his location says London. (So he's obviously from Ontario.)

[Garzahd]

(and, judging from your use of the metric system in your posts I'd wager that you don't live in the states).

Yeah, his location says London. (So he's obviously from Ontario.)

Don't get persnickety with me, Mister. I will destroy you.