Wheel of Time (Split from Geeky/Nerdy Kids Books)

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Postby SpitValve » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:50 am UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:Then I got to junior high and started reading Xanth and Wheel of Time. I haven't been the same since. D:


Ah, Wheel of Time. I think I got up to book 9 before I decided it was getting kinda long-winded and boring...

The One-Power stuff was kinda cool though.
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:58 am UTC

SpitValve wrote:
CreemyNougat wrote:Then I got to junior high and started reading Xanth and Wheel of Time. I haven't been the same since. D:


Ah, Wheel of Time. I think I got up to book 9 before I decided it was getting kinda long-winded and boring...

The One-Power stuff was kinda cool though.


Book 10 is absolutely terrible, but 11 was great. 12 is supposed to wrap everything up, if RJ finishes it before dying.
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Postby mrcheesypants » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:15 am UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:
SpitValve wrote:
CreemyNougat wrote:Then I got to junior high and started reading Xanth and Wheel of Time. I haven't been the same since. D:


Ah, Wheel of Time. I think I got up to book 9 before I decided it was getting kinda long-winded and boring...

The One-Power stuff was kinda cool though.


Book 10 is absolutely terrible, but 11 was great. 12 is supposed to wrap everything up, if RJ finishes it before dying.


My friends pressured me into reading those books. Only got to book 2. I never saw what was so good about WoT.
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:22 am UTC

mrcheesypants wrote:My friends pressured me into reading those books. Only got to book 2. I never saw what was so good about WoT.


SpitValve, can you split the topic so that I can enlighten the unbeliever? By which I mean, can you ask someone who IS a mod to split the topic?
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Postby mrcheesypants » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:12 am UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:
mrcheesypants wrote:My friends pressured me into reading those books. Only got to book 2. I never saw what was so good about WoT.


SpitValve, can you split the topic so that I can enlighten the unbeliever? By which I mean, can you ask someone who IS a mod to split the topic?


Enlighten me...
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:37 am UTC

[Actual thread starts here. =D]


The One Power is an interesting "physics engine" that gets more and more explained as the series goes on. The world-building is done very well. Basically, anything you've heard about will become important. Jordan does a really good job of making you believe in a vast world.

One of the major drawbacks of the series is Jordan's depiction of women. Women tend not to have "characteristics" as such, with a few exceptions. Moiraine is mysterious, calm, and collected. Nynaeve is very very angry. Other than that, most women are pretty much one-sided.
Some of his male characters are pretty one-sided, though, too. The more important characters are more fleshed-out, but eventually names can jumble together and all you really remember is that someone is Aes Sedai or Aiel or Cairhienin.

Jordan is bad at characters, but as far as creating an intricate and compelling plot, he's an excellent writer. The books do drag a little bit - 5 -7 and 10 are particularly bad. But there really a vast world there with a lot going on it. Well worth reading, in my opinion.
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Postby mrcheesypants » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:05 am UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:[Actual thread starts here. =D]

Jordan is bad at characters, but as far as creating an intricate and compelling plot, he's an excellent writer. The books do drag a little bit - 5 -7 and 10 are particularly bad. But there really a vast world there with a lot going on it. Well worth reading, in my opinion.


I believe this is the reason why I quit after 1/4 of the 2nd book even after all my friends urged me to continue on. Moiraine's dialog seemed to consist of just odd proverbs somehow tied to the situation, her Warder seemed to be a one-dimensonal badass, Rand seemed to be the cliché naive young hero.

I guess it's just not my type of book.
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Postby SpitValve » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:15 am UTC

mrcheesypants wrote:I guess it's just not my type of book.


It's my type of book, it's just the characterisation is written badly :)

And I agree that the world is detailed and interesting, albeit a bit cliche, and the one power is a very cool "physics engine".

But, he does write everything as a stereotype, so I just don't find the world as believable as even say, the Discworld.

Also, so much of it is derived from Dune or LOTR:

Ogier = ogre/ent
Trolloc = troll-orc
Those dark guys with cloaks who can disappear into shadow = those same guys in LOTR
Aiel = Fremen from Dune
Rand = Luke from Dune
Aes Sedai = Bene Geserit from Dune
Northern wastes = Mordor
and many more...

It even has a Mt Doom... (and mountains of Dhoom, which is what happens when you sneeze while saying "Doom")
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Postby Narsil » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:29 am UTC

SpitValve wrote:Those dark guys with cloaks who can disappear into shadow = those same guys in LOTR
Ringwraiths. That is what they are called.
SpitValve wrote:Rand = Luke from Dune

Dune doesn't have a Luke. Unless I'm terribly mistaken.
It does have a Leto, however, in fact he comes in three flavors:
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-Dead Baby Leto II
-Horrific Giant Worm Leto II
Spoiler:
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:40 am UTC

I just really like Mat and Perrin. Moreso Mat.

And why doesn't anyone from the main continent find Aiel humor amusing? I think it's god damned hilarious.
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Postby Alisto » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:24 pm UTC

i love the books because of the one power stuff. it's not just some arbitrary magic system; there are real rules and everything is described in a way that it's very believable. (he holds a phd in physics, if i recall correctly)

the characters are certainly not the deepest, but i care more about the world and the plot than the characters. still, i don't find them that bad. i am very invested in the main characters, with the possible exception of elayne.
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Postby Alcari » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:54 pm UTC

Alisto wrote:i love the books because of the one power stuff. it's not just some arbitrary magic system; there are real rules and everything is described in a way that it's very believable. (he holds a phd in physics, if i recall correctly)

the characters are certainly not the deepest, but i care more about the world and the plot than the characters. still, i don't find them that bad. i am very invested in the main characters, with the possible exception of elayne.


Same here, I think his discriptions of actions and the way everything fits together is great. He does use way to many characters though, it gets confusing to remeber who travels with who and where they stand.

CreemyNougat wrote:And why doesn't anyone from the main continent find Aiel humor amusing? I think it's god damned hilarious.

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Postby SpitValve » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:22 am UTC

Alcari wrote:Same here, I think his discriptions of actions and the way everything fits together is great. He does use way to many characters though, it gets confusing to remeber who travels with who and where they stand.


It sucks that he doesn't have the big glossary in the back anymore...

Then again, any book that requires a glossary is not very well written...
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Postby Alisto » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:38 am UTC

SpitValve wrote:
Alcari wrote:Same here, I think his discriptions of actions and the way everything fits together is great. He does use way to many characters though, it gets confusing to remeber who travels with who and where they stand.


It sucks that he doesn't have the big glossary in the back anymore...

Then again, any book that requires a glossary is not very well written...


i would argue that the books don't require a glossary (though the pronunciation guides were helpful). the only time i ever needed to reference the glossaries was for names (i'm terrible with character names)

actually, i think the glossaries hurt the books. often they would include things that weren't introduced until the end of the book and it was hard to avoid reading things accidentally.

the glossaries needed spoiler tags, imo.
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Postby Durinthal » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:32 pm UTC

I read book 6 first, then I think 7 and 8 before going back to the beginning and starting from there. I haven't gotten past book 9 yet, because nothing seems to be happening over the course of 500+ pages.

I do enjoy the world that it's set in, though (as I do with every series).
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Postby jamessw » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:44 pm UTC

I'm on book 4. The third made me almost want to give up, and thankfully, this installment is picking up a bit of pace. Let's hope it stays this way ( even though everyone seems to say some of the later books drag on even worse Image )
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:11 pm UTC

jamessw wrote:I'm on book 4. The third made me almost want to give up, and thankfully, this installment is picking up a bit of pace. Let's hope it stays this way ( even though everyone seems to say some of the later books drag on even worse Image )


4 and 11 are my favorites. (So prepare for some dragging. =\ )
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Postby bigglesworth » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:09 pm UTC

Narsil wrote:
SpitValve wrote:Those dark guys with cloaks who can disappear into shadow = those same guys in LOTR
Ringwraiths. That is what they are called.
SpitValve wrote:Rand = Luke from Dune

Dune doesn't have a Luke. Unless I'm terribly mistaken.
It does have a Leto, however, in fact he comes in three flavors:
-Duke Leto
-Dead Baby Leto II
-Horrific Giant Worm Leto II


Someone didn't get the George Lucas mocking joke...
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Postby SpitValve » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:06 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Someone didn't get the George Lucas mocking joke...


nah, I seriously just forgot his name :)

Thanks for the save though.
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Postby Jauss » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:08 pm UTC

[ramble]

Oh man, so many WoT memories. I even had dreams about them sometimes, which were pretty damn cool, running around in dresses and One Powering it up.

I saw a school friend reading the first book in Science class towards the end of our 8th grade year, read the glossary in the back, and was blown away. (Jordan was to me what Tolkien is to most people. I hadn't read LotR then (I still haven't really, except for the Fellowship, though I plan to) and so the WoT was my introduction to massive world-building and hella complex plots and stuff.) I borrowed it, got hooked, and bought and read the rest of the books that were out at the time (2-6) over summer vacation.

Then I had to wait for all the rest. I'd skim or re-read them every so often, especially my favorites, and even got the guide book thing for Christmas one year. Then when the 10th book finally came out I decided to read the first 9 again to get back into the swing of things, so I did. Then time went on and I was given the 11th book as I gift last year, but...I haven't read it yet.

I'm just not in the right space for it right now I guess. (It's messed up, yet understandable, that both times I read the whole series back to back happened to be in the wake of a devastating death in my family (and other bad stuff.) Which isn't to say I need someone to die to read them, just that all-encompassing fantasy worlds to escape into seem extra appealing then.) So much is going on in them that you kind of have go back over them one way or another, at least a little, to remember everything that's going on.

Add that to the fact that ever since shortly after I got sick, and especially after I got my laptop, my attention span is a lot shorter because I'm aware of all the other awesome things I could be doing or looking up or whatever, and it's probably gonna be a while. But I'll get back into it one day. All I know is Mr. Jordan better not die before he finishes the last book. :)

[/ramble]

It's interesting to see what books people like the best. My favorites are books 3, 6, and 7. I also have a soft-spot for the 1st one.
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Postby Alpha Omicron » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:18 pm UTC

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Postby Alisto » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:20 pm UTC

i can't really pick a favorite book because they all sort of run into one another. instead, i have favorite moments; a lot of favorite moments.

in high school, when i was reading the books heavily, i would often think about the characters as if they were real people. "man, that's just like something mat would say!" craziness.
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Postby Jauss » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:07 am UTC

Alisto wrote:i can't really pick a favorite book because they all sort of run into one another. instead, i have favorite moments; a lot of favorite moments.


Yeah. I kinda thought that after I posted. It's not that I disliked any of the books, just that some of them have more favorite moments (or really intense, important moments) than others for me. TDR, LoC, and CoS were the 3 that I read the most, which at least partially had to do with the fact that I semi-destroyed my first copies of TGH, TSR, TFoH (and didn't own EotW) until I bought them again for my second read through.

in high school, when i was reading the books heavily, i would often think about the characters as if they were real people. "man, that's just like something mat would say!" craziness.


:) Me too. And I'd go around saying (or at least thinking) "Flaming ___!" or "Bloody flaming ___!" or "Blood and ashes!". I'd sing the songs and learn the poems in the books. I wrote a book report for school on one of them once. My email address is still the first one I had and it has Nynaeve in it. Not because she was my favorite character (because she isn't, although I grew to like her) but because it was still available. If/when I have kids I might choose some version of the name Perrin for a first or middle name.
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Postby Alisto » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:13 am UTC

to this day, i use "bloody hell" as slang. people often respond, "what, are you british now?" the truth is that i started out saying "blood and ashes" but it quickly just transitioned to "bloody hell" because it rolled off the tongue better.

when i played magic competitively, i did a couple of team tournaments. my friend and i were team asha'man.
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Postby Easton » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:07 pm UTC

Such a fantastic series. Re-reading it for the third time now, and I pick up new things every time. It's such a dense, complex world that he's created, leaving so many clues and hints before and after something happens, yet never really explaining it, that you can never really get everything.


{{Spoiler}}
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Postby Alisto » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:27 pm UTC

Easton wrote:{{Spoiler}}
I'm ashamed to say I still don't know who killed Asmodean.


I maintain that it was Lanfear.
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Postby Hammer » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:32 pm UTC

I sat down and read all the books currently extant one right after another. It has it's ups and downs. Some good stuff, but I wouldn't call it the greatest ever. Did anyone else get tired of the continual beatings/whippings/spankings/suchlike? I felt like I'd stumbled into some sort of BSDM fiction newsgroup after awhile.
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Postby treehugga » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:37 pm UTC

anyone with any idea about when 12 might come out? Its supposed to be all supersized and crazy right?
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Postby Alisto » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:43 pm UTC

treehugga wrote:anyone with any idea about when 12 might come out? Its supposed to be all supersized and crazy right?


Jordan is all kinds of sickly right now, so there's currently no idea when he'll be able to finish the book.
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Postby SpitValve » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:11 pm UTC

The first book I read after book 10 of Wheel of Time was book 4 of Harry Potter. And suddenly Rowling's writing seemed incredibly involving and interesting, and I realised quite how incredibly bad Robert Jordon is at writing...
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Postby Easton » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:38 pm UTC

Alisto wrote:
I maintain that it was Lanfear.


That would add a whole new level of complexity. No, it was Bela. Bela is the creator. And she's one of the Heroes. She also wields a Rod of Dominion.

So confusing at times, but so marvellous.
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Postby SpitValve » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:22 am UTC

Snape killed Asmodean!
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Postby Princess Marzipan » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:40 am UTC

SpitValve wrote:Snape killed Asmodean!
[/thread]
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WOT

Postby mynoduesp » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:04 pm UTC

Man, I drank in these books. It really picks up half way into book three and just gets better end of book nine is great!!

I love the character interaction, especially the interactions between males and females and, as I childishly view it, the constant game of one up-man ship in the battle of the sexs.

The character growth is slow and gradual which I really appreciate, there is no sudden jump in regards Rand from boy to man but a gradual hardening of self and a firming of purpose and resolution in the completion of his goals.

Also the re-evaluation of all the characters morals when faced with tough choices between varying degrees of evil is great.

Also is it just me or is there a lot of Norse mythology references mixed in the last few books?
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Re: WOT

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:20 pm UTC

mynoduesp wrote:It really picks up half way into book three


THAT IS 2000+ PAGES.
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Re: WOT

Postby SpitValve » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:54 am UTC

mynoduesp wrote:I love the character interaction, especially the interactions between males and females and, as I childishly view it, the constant game of one up-man ship in the battle of the sexes.


It's okay to view them childishly, beacuse the characterisation is done childishly :)
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Postby FiddleMath » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:00 pm UTC

Book 3 of the Wheel of Time is the only piece of fiction I've ever started without finishing. I remember actually liking the first book; and then liking the characters less and less, until I didn't really care what happened to them. *shrug*
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Postby WhiteRabbit » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:21 pm UTC

I tried reading the first one and couldn't make it through it. I ended up skipping a few hundred pages to see if anything happened, and it turned out nothing did. I eventually found the ultracondensed version and found it much more readable.
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Postby Mordecai » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:49 am UTC

I started reading the series in 2001. Within 6 weeks I had read the first 8 books. I finally caught up to current when Book 10 came out.

Book 10 is essentially a "meanwhile" explaining what everyone else was doing while Rand was cleansing the male half of the one power.

Book 11 was good.

I read today that Book 12 is scheduled to come out in early 2009. So, lets keep our fingers crossed.
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Re: WOT

Postby Princess Marzipan » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:12 pm UTC

mynoduesp wrote:Also is it just me or is there a lot of Norse mythology references mixed in the last few books?
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